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PhaseLockedLoop
04-20-2013, 10:04 AM
You'd think that when a suspect flees on foot, and you have a car he's just been in, you could track him with dogs. Or if no dogs can get past the millions of dollars worth of technology, then you might think that someone fleeing on foot would most likely hide in an UN-occupied place, like a shed, a garage, or a BOAT, and you'd put your infra-red detectors on all such places--rather than having hundreds of LE people invade all the OCCUPIED places inside the "perimeter".

The Bigfella
04-20-2013, 06:47 PM
Hundreds?

I saw one report that said 10,000 LEO's were engaged in the hunt. Can't link you to it, can't confirm it.... but from what I saw on TV, I wouldn't doubt that there were thousands engaged in it. Strewth, even the Boston Police Commissioner said he spent "hundreds of hours viewing surveillance tapes" (not sure that there are hundreds of hours elapsed yet).

Hunky Dory
04-20-2013, 07:05 PM
They reviewed hundreds off hrs. of tapes to identify the suspects in the first place, not to locate them.

Phillip Allen
04-20-2013, 07:06 PM
does the math work?

S/V Laura Ellen
04-20-2013, 07:12 PM
You'd think that when a suspect flees on foot, and you have a car he's just been in, you could track him with dogs. Or if no dogs can get past the millions of dollars worth of technology, then you might think that someone fleeing on foot would most likely hide in an UN-occupied place, like a shed, a garage, or a BOAT, and you'd put your infra-red detectors on all such places--rather than having hundreds of LE people invade all the OCCUPIED places inside the "perimeter".

Ain't 20/20 hindsight grand.
Or he could have been holed up with accomplices, friends, family, or a home invasion, the list is endless.

JimD
04-20-2013, 07:22 PM
While watching the stay indoors 'request' and seeing thousands of people comply while hundreds or thousands of cops searched homes and cruised the otherwise deserted streets of Watertown I was quite awestruck. I couldn't decide if it was the finest act of civic cooperation I have ever seen or the scariest act of police state obedience. Whatever it was, it was certainly impressive.

ljb5
04-20-2013, 07:32 PM
While watching the stay indoors 'request' and seeing thousands of people comply while hundreds or thousands of cops searched homes and cruised the otherwise deserted streets of Watertown I was quite awestruck. I couldn't decide if it was the finest act of civic cooperation I have ever seen or the scariest act of police state obedience. Whatever it was, it was certainly impressive.

A few people here sound like they would have been shoving men off the boats at Dunkirk.

I think people in Boston cooperated with the police because they wanted the killings stopped and the suspects captured.

We don't all hate our government, our communities, nor our fellow man. Cooperation is not a dirty word.

Gerarddm
04-20-2013, 07:37 PM
Civic cooperation. Period.

JimD
04-21-2013, 09:36 AM
Yes, civic cooperation, I agree. Rereading my post I now wish I had worded it differently. What I meant was how similar the two situations can appear.

Gerarddm
04-21-2013, 09:40 AM
As a tangential observation, their mother was arrested for shoplifting $1,600 worth of clothes from a Natick, MA Lord & Taylor last year, according to The Daily Mail.

StevenBauer
04-21-2013, 09:49 AM
does the math work?

Only if you understand math.

Steven

Peach
04-21-2013, 09:52 AM
Civic cooperation. Period.

I have to agree.

Also, to me it was an indication that the vast majority of citizens appreciate law enforcement, and are happy to cooperate. The thousands of residents of Watertown cheering law enforcement said it all.

Phillip Allen
04-21-2013, 09:58 AM
As a tangential observation, their mother was arrested for shoplifting $1,600 worth of clothes from a Natick, MA Lord & Taylor last year, according to The Daily Mail.

sounds like a dysfunctional family to me (not saying absolute... just 'sounds like')

PhaseLockedLoop
04-21-2013, 12:20 PM
A few people here sound like they would have been shoving men off the boats at Dunkirk.

I think people in Boston cooperated with the police because they wanted the killings stopped and the suspects captured.

We don't all hate our government, our communities, nor our fellow man. Cooperation is not a dirty word.

Oh, I get it. Anyone who has doubts about locking down the whole city and saturating the area with assault-rifle-toting folks doing house-to-house searches--in short, treating the city as a war zone--must hate our government, our communities, and our fellow man.

Go soak your head.

The strategy spread fear and terror, cost appalling amounts of money, cost residents appalling amounts of money and failed to find a 19-year-old kid on foot bleeding heavily from his wounds. Certainly plenty of people were happy to have it end, and happy to have the kid caught, including me. I don't know how many were happy to "cooperate", and neither do you. I've got nothing against the gun-toting guys--they were doing what they were told, which is their job. It's the job that I question.

Perhaps I'm wrong about searching the houses. Not everything on NBC or The Guardian was accurate. They certainly did say that all the houses within the perimeter were being searched, and showed videos of, for example, six or eight bulky armed guys squashed onto a porch and then rushing into the house while the occupants stood outside holding infants. Who knows, maybe these were staged so that the kid, if he was in some house, would move. That would be clever. But the fact that it took many many hours to go through the area indicates to me that they weren't just knocking on doors and asking if there was anything funny going on. Can anyone confirm that they did search houses? If I've got this wrong I'd be happy.

Also, as I understand it, the city was locked down, and the residents were ordered to shelter in place. Anyone who doesn't read an implied threat here is not very sensitive. It was certainly meant as a threat. Cooperation is swell, but when it's under threat of force it loses some of its luster.

I don't know if this was terrorism, but the aim of terrorism is to spread fear and disrupt ordinary life. The bombs struck fear, but the officials spread it and disrupted ordinary life to an extent unknown except in war, and they did not even find their guy.

ljb5
04-21-2013, 02:23 PM
It's not like this was the first manhunt that has ever been conducted in the US.

Tom Wilkinson
04-21-2013, 02:37 PM
Also, as I understand it, the city was locked down, and the residents were ordered to shelter in place. Anyone who doesn't read an implied threat here is not very sensitive. It was certainly meant as a threat. Cooperation is swell, but when it's under threat of force it loses some of its luster.

That's incorrect. And fairly easy to verify. I have friends and aquaintances in the area and that isn't what they are saying. It was a shelter in place request. You can read more here. http://nation.time.com/2013/04/19/was-boston-actually-on-lockdown/

It's easy to look back and question the methods. The fact is they caught both of them within a week of the incident. That's pretty damn good.

These are not small towns. Thats a pretty huge search operation. Wer homes searched inside by men carrying guns? Qite possibly. I have not heard a single report of anyone having an issue with how that was carried out. If it were done forcefully I would expect at least one of the familys affected would be speaking up by now.

Phillip Allen
04-21-2013, 04:13 PM
It's not like this was the first manhunt that has ever been conducted in the US.

Wow! Now there is a useful bit of scientifically aquired information!

how many here have ever been part of a 'man-hunt'? (I have)

Tom Montgomery
04-21-2013, 04:26 PM
My guess is the vast majority of the residents of Greater Boston were happy to shelter in place so long as a murderous, armed, bomb-throwing criminal was loose among them.

Tom Wilkinson
04-21-2013, 04:39 PM
The guy that put together that website should have to spend a few days with the families of kids that lost legs or were killed and convince them that their children are merely superb actors. Sickening.

ljb5
04-21-2013, 07:03 PM
Wow! Now there is a useful bit of scientifically aquired information!

Actually, I kinda thought it was so painfully obvious that it hardly needed to be pointed out.

But some people here are freaking out as if this is a ground-breaking, precedent setting, dangerous expansion of government powers that has never been contemplated before.


how many here have ever been part of a 'man-hunt'? (I have)

I'm hardly surprised.

===============================================

News flash, guys: Cops carry guns, not balloon animals.

When there's a criminal on the loose, they go looking for them. Duh.

JimD
04-21-2013, 07:50 PM
The response at the Red Sox game should have answered that question for you.
Didn't see the game.

Garret
04-21-2013, 10:10 PM
Well, it was Vermont day at the game.... :)

More seriously, I didn't see that people were "ordered" to stay inside. Except for sensationalist headlines, the stories I've read say residents were "asked" to stay inside. Big difference there.

Phillip Allen
04-21-2013, 10:13 PM
It wasn't the game, it was the memorial ceremonies before the game.

I can be a pretty cynical guy.... But have we gotten so jaded and polarized that we can't recognize some civic spirit, when we see it?

so... are you part of the answer to polorization or are you part of the problem?

Ian McColgin
04-21-2013, 10:20 PM
People who conduct political discourse on issues and in sentences are part of the solution.

Garret
04-21-2013, 10:22 PM
so... are you part of the answer to polorization or are you part of the problem?

Norm's a Liberalitarian - so of course he's part of the problem! According to some anyway.

However - what I think he was trying to say (though many don't want to hear it) is that Boston residents, by & large, are OK with how things were handled & that the ceremonies at the game were a way of mourning those lost & trying to move on. Don't ever think (as much as us northern New Englanders may make fun of it) that Beantown ain't one tough, proud city.