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MichelW
04-01-2013, 08:52 AM
Hi everyone!
Just wondering if anyone has experience using epoxy from Illstreet Composites.
I just finished the strips on my Jericho Bay Lobster Skiff and am ready to epoxy the hull. I ordered the
1708 Biaxial cloth and Slow Epoxy kit from Illstreet to do the outer hull.
I have this and a few other pictures of my 12 foot Classic Dinghy at my website at mikesboats.com (http://mikesboats.com) if anyone wants to see.

http://www.mikesboats.com/jerichobaylobsterskiff.png

Any comments about Illstreet would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Michel White in Tucker, Georgia

MichelW
04-01-2013, 10:43 AM
Nice work but I do not know of that particular resin.. But FWIW I would use the 1808 or even the 1208 with an overlay of 6 oz finish cloth for the glasswork.

Ya, the plans call for 25 oz. biaxial cloth for the outer hull and two layers of 10 oz. cloth for the inside. I'm going to at least follow that recommendation for the outer hull at this point. The 25 oz. biaxial is supposed to give it more than adequate protection for the moss covered granite shores of Maine, but what do I know?

From the few other Jericho Bay Skiffs I've seen online, most everyone has used the 25 oz. biaxial except for Don from CT who used the thick Kevlar, and I can't afford that in the near future. BY:D

Fortunately for me, the coast of Georgia is mostly sandy beach, and our lakes are mostly mud-bottomed. My biggest problem will be submerged wood, but I'm not a speed freak. I'm actually going to have to test this boat with my electric trolling motor for starters.

Best regards and thanks for your recommendation,
Mike

MichelW
04-01-2013, 08:18 PM
You are way out of my league...:)

So let me see if I have it straight, The biaxial 1708 is matt sewed together with cloth and the matt is thicker than I need and will use too much resin and leave me with an un-smooth surface that will require lots of fairing.

....and you suggest using a separate matt (1808 or 1208) with 6oz cloth to finish it with. Is that right?

...and do you have to apply more resin to the skin layer after you roll it out on the wet structural cloth?

...Also, about the interlux 2000e, are you saying that it can be applied to the tacky (or still dent-able) resin once I've applied the last coat of resin to the cloth? What do you use for the final coat? My boat wont be staying in the water very long, but I hope it will see both salt and fresh water if I live that long.

Leave it to me to find the hardest way to build this second boat! lol

I finished sanding the hull today and I put some 105/207 resin on the mahogany transom today which is staying clear and will get a double layer of 7oz leftover cloth. For the transom I am painting on two layers of clear resin then letting it dry completely then sanding again before applying the two layers of cloth. It's just a small area so I will apply both layers of cloth and two additional coats of clear on the same day if all goes well. It worked out well for me on the Classic Dinghy transom so at least that part of the boat is easy...knock on wood.

Anyway the different kinds of cloth are confusing to me, so if you could clear up the difference between the biaxial 1708 and the two cloths you suggested I'd appreciate it.
Thanks again!
mike

http://mikesboats.com/transom1april.jpg



The 1708 is designed for polyester resin. While the matt is great for hard turns and compound curves, and I use a lot of it, you will need to be mindfull of air pockets uder the structual face as you work the resin and it begins to cure. Your hull does not really fit that description for shape either. So all you are doing is bulking up the glass and using more epoxy resin. So the alternative glass will do the same, while the skin layer of finish cloth will save you also a lot more work and costs for fairing the biaxall. Apply it right over the wetted out structual cloth and roll it out and watch your hull be transformed into almost a smooth finish for high build primer or spot fairing at best. I personally use Interprotect 2000E over the initial glasswork too. This can also be applied in the skin dry of your epoxy, once again saving you tons of prepping if you have done your "homework" on glassing correctly. Then don't worry much about the coastal 24 grit sandpaper against this set up.

Dry fit everything and then roll the bits up on a pvc pipe after marking the positions of the glass for reference when you reroll and work it back on a wetted surface. my 02, worth...

Bill Huson
04-01-2013, 08:56 PM
Forget matt. Matt FG is used to beef up FRP structures, as in add bulk, and it has no use I can think of for surface lamination on a wood structure. Only thing worse would be blowing glass on it with a chopper gun.

MichelW
04-01-2013, 09:34 PM
Ok, that explains a lot. The backing is different.
I got pretty good at fiberglassing on the first boat, so I hope that it will pay off on this dinghy. Your advice is also very helpful. I have a lot of resin for this boat, so I'm excited about being so close to having a finished hull soon. After processing over two miles worth of strips (1350 lineal feet of strips, sawed twice, routed twice and planed 5 times each) I'm actually looking forward to the fiberglass work. Temperature is also perfect right now, compared to the crazy heating I had to do in the garage in December for the dinghy.

I'll let you know how it pans out,
thanks again,
mike

MichelW
04-01-2013, 09:39 PM
Forget matt. Matt FG is used to beef up FRP structures, as in add bulk, and it has no use I can think of for surface lamination on a wood structure. Only thing worse would be blowing glass on it with a chopper gun.

Thanks!
What I ordered for the outer hull is DBM Knytex Biaxial - 50 inch wide. It's too late to change it now, so I'm going to use it. It should end up being good enough for my own use. For the inside of the boat, the designer called for two layers of 10lb. cloth which I haven't ordered yet. Hopefully by the end of this thread I'll know if there is something better to use for it.
Best regards,
mike

MichelW
04-01-2013, 09:40 PM
Thanks!
What I ordered for the outer hull is DBM Knytex Biaxial - 50 inch wide. It's too late to change it now, so I'm going to use it. It should end up being good enough for my own use. For the inside of the boat, the designer called for two layers of 10lb. cloth which I haven't ordered yet. Hopefully by the end of this thread I'll know if there is something better to use for it.
Best regards,
mike

Sorry, I meant to say DBM 1708 Knytex Biaxial

woodpile
04-02-2013, 05:07 PM
Fortunately for me, the coast of Georgia is mostly sandy beach, and our lakes are mostly mud-bottomed.

Michel,
With those conditions I would do just one layer of the 10oz. inside, the kevlar I used on my JBL was 16oz, one layer in and out and the boat is plenty stiff. If I remember correctly original WB build just had the 2nd layer of 10oz from the waterline down on the inside and that may be related to the way Aaron Porter planned on using the boat to haul building materials to the local islands.
Your hull looks great, nice work, it's a sweet little boat.

Don

MichelW
04-02-2013, 08:17 PM
Ok, thanks again! Illstreet finally shipped my stuff today, so I'll wait and see what the biaxial cloth i ordered looks like before making any decision. I'm getting
anxious for the supplies to arrive.
tty soon,
mike

MichelW
04-02-2013, 08:22 PM
Ok Don,
That sounds like good advice, and it would make sense. I don't mind putting a layer of my 7 oz. cloth on the bottom of the inside where our feet will go, and then a complete covering of the whole inside afterwards with 10 oz. I'm also sure that will be fine. Nice to hear from you. I have enjoyed seeing the way you modified your jbls. I was looking to see if I could find pics of your build that show how you put in the supports for your floor. I saw a pic somewhere of it but then couldn't locate it again. I'm thinking that I will eventually use some 2x pieces of cedar to support a floor in mine as well later, but for this year I plan on using it just to get out on the water and do some lake fishing. I need a break after building two boats this winter. peace, mike

woodpile
04-03-2013, 08:58 AM
Mike, here's the floor supports. Cedar supports would be my first choice but had some cypress I wanted to use up. They finished 1" thick, spaced 12" on center, sealed on 3 sides and epoxied to hull. The black line you can see, floor line, was established by leveling the hull then filling it with water to the desired floor height. The extra holes in the supports are for ventilation and weight reduction.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/donfromct/b21b3c80-fc74-4b74-ad56-3708b34bfcbf_zpsf5785ee8.jpg?t=1364997365

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/donfromct/JBL%20Album/riggingtubes_zps9f9e0731.jpg

MichelW
04-03-2013, 09:57 AM
Thanks a lot Don!
This is very helpful. I will also have the strip down the middle of the hull like you have (forgot the name of it), and using water is a great idea. That will be the best way. Can even throw the boat in the pool to do that and get the lines for the seat risers if I end up installing seats, as well as the lines for the forward deck. I like the way you did it on your boat.

I sawed up some 8 x 8 cedar timbers into 4 x 4 and 2 x 8 lumber which can be further sawed to make the supports. Also broke down and bought the cheap sears planer which is the best money I ever spent on a tool. It made making the strips so much easier...etc. etc...
tty soon,
mike

woodpile
04-03-2013, 03:15 PM
The keelson is T shaped, served two purposes, wanted extra keel strength for all the trailering we do on not so great roads and it provided a nice 1/2" x 1/2" shelf where the strips met with it, still used the per-design keel.

MichelW
04-03-2013, 07:46 PM
The keelson is T shaped, served two purposes, wanted extra keel strength for all the trailering we do on not so great roads and it provided a nice 1/2" x 1/2" shelf where the strips met with it, still used the per-design keel.

Ya Don, that is a super smart idea to use a "T" keelson. I like the idea of the keelson as a solid "washer" for the screws that will hold the keel from the inside of the hull, and the extra stiffness is always a good thing. The real reason in my case is to hide the gap i left at the centerline due to being in a hurry to get the boat finished, but we'll just keep that to ourselves. That gap will be filled with epoxy/filler and hidden forever by the keelson. I use the West 405 filleting blend to fill big gaps, so it will be fine.

Tomorrow the stuff arrives finally....next unknown for me will be the steering system, but that will be awhile yet.
regards,
mike

woodpile
04-04-2013, 08:34 AM
The steering is no big deal, the Teleflex SAFE-T QC works fine with small outboards, best pricing I found was Defender, $139.99

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|7504|906014|314189&id=337395

The only variable is determining a good length for the cables, steering, shift and throttle. Here's a few pics showing a console mock up using a piece of garden hose to simulate the control cables.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/donfromct/6761c221-ae63-4356-8c61-f7743f697dec_zps8a573395.jpg?t=1365081177http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/donfromct/0c11c8b9-660d-482a-8ed9-48bd304f7469_zps00273ff3.jpg?t=1365081262

MichelW
04-04-2013, 09:15 AM
Well I guess if you tell me what specific shift and throttle to use, I won't even have to do any thinking on my own whatsoever! lol

Oh, while I'm thinking of it, are you required in CT to display a tag of the boat capacities, etc? I haven't seen what the specs are on this boat
but I assumed that it has a capacity of 6 or 7 people. I have the wifey and 4 kids. I saw somewhere in my research a formula to calculate the
details. Need to find it again. It might have been at the Coast Guard site or in the boat builders handbook they put out.
regards,
Mike

woodpile
04-04-2013, 10:11 AM
Mike, no capacity tag req'd in Ct. on a home built boat, just the HIN no. att. to the transom. Just reading the mail, Hamilton Marine in Me.
http://www.hamiltonmarine.com/ is putting that Teleflex steering on sale Apr. 6-14th for $124.99, great price. Don't know what engine you're using but if it's a Yahama just show the dealer the above picture, their control is really nice in that the throttle/shift handle can go on either side and the wiring harness it comes with just plugs into the motor pig tail, no wiring req'd.

MichelW
04-04-2013, 01:48 PM
I don't have the motor yet. Problem here is that most of our lakes have a 10hp motor limit, so I'll be getting a used 9.8hp for starters and probably only
get the 20hp down the road if I feel that I need it, or if I get to retire near the coast.
For now I only have my trolling motor, so I'll put in a temporary rear seat just screwed into seat stringers so we can take it out fishing at our local
Stone Mountain lake.

WildBill
04-05-2013, 12:21 PM
We built this Jericho at Shearline Boatworks. The outside was glassed with 1708 (covered while wet with peel ply), then faired and painted using Alexseal. The inside was glassed with 6 oz finish cloth, epoxy coated twice, and finished with about 6 gallons of clear Alexseal.


https://vimeo.com/53186326

*Having trouble getting a photo to show. Will try again later.

woodpile
04-05-2013, 05:09 PM
Over the top, would have to call it a Jerricho Bay Lobster yacht. And the boat house ain't too shabby either, nice work guy's.

MichelW
04-05-2013, 09:53 PM
Wow!
Ya, I'm not even worthy to have you replying to my thread. I really love that boat and was wondering what kind of clear coat that was since I started
looking into the Jericho Bay. That 1708 is a bit daunting for me, but I do pretty well now using normal cloth and think I can do well with the 1708. What I do is
paint on two coats over the bare wood first and let it dry completely. Then I sand and put the cloth on dry and wet it out, careful to remove as much resin as I can to prevent bubbles underneath.

Can you tell me if the strips on that boat are cedar? In the video it seems like they are sawing up some hardwood that looks like cherry...I've been very curious to find out.

Best regards and thanks much for chiming in. I've shown that video to quite a few folks already. I probably should have kept it to myself considering how inferior my boat will be compared to it. I'm sure I will love mine plenty though, too, and another thing about your boat that I really love is how the gunwale comes to a point at the front and makes a wonderful contrast with the white hull. Darned if I can think of a nicer color scheme.
Mike

WildBill
04-06-2013, 08:07 AM
Thank you for the kind words MichelW and Woodpile. The hull was built from 17' 6" strips of clear juniper. The seats etc. are from African mahogany, stained Mahogany Red.

When glassing the outside we sanded the hull fair then swept it clean with a bench brush, wiped it with a dry microfiber rag to get the fine dust, then wiped down with a clean rag and denatured alcohol to get the very fine dust. We then lay the pre-fit glass on the hull in proper position. Then carefully fold back half the glass and wet out the hull with a roller. Start in the middle and work your way to the edge, then repeat with the other half of the glass. When everything is wet and all the air is rolled out, we apply a layer of peel ply to the wet glass. This pushes the resin into the weave and saves a lot of grinding and fairing.

When we told Mr. Wilson that his boat had been given a special award at the Georgetown Woodenboat Show for "Wretched Excess" he replied. "Very nice, but wooden boats can never be excessive. That is like saying a woman who is a "perfect 10" is too beautiful."

Good luck with your boat MichelW, I will keep checking on this thread and will be glad to answer any questions for you.

woodpile
04-06-2013, 09:02 AM
Bill, that boat in Mr. Wilson's collection with the nice Carolina flare wouldn't happen to be a Grahm Byrnes designed Ocracoke, If it is any chance of a few pictures. I have the build CD for it and have no issue with being persuaded to build one, thanks.

Don

WildBill
04-06-2013, 11:09 AM
Don,

The skiff you are referring to is a Mark Willis design and build (http://www.willismarineinc.com/sexyboat.php). I think you will enjoy the photo gallery of Mr. Wilson's boat there!

The boat in the middle is another project of ours; we stretched the Albury Brothers Runabout to 22' and cold-molded the hull. She is my favorite boat.

MichelW
04-06-2013, 02:16 PM
Well my boat is mostly built out of "scrap" cedar from my neighbor's deck demolition and from a few cedar timbers and (Central American) mahogany 6x6 beams an unknowing neighbor threw out, and I only have basic homeowner tools and a sloped garage floor to build it on. After seeing the video of your boat, I thought to myself that I could probably build a boat with these scrap materials at least as strong as that boat, albeit not as precisely done, and I could be running around in the same kind of boat as those rich folks up in SC. There's nothing like a wooden boat to get my family together in one spot at one time too! BY:D

Oh, and I guess I might have to go dumpster diving up at Sheerline if I ever want to see any of that Alexseal...hehe! For now I'll probably use the Interlux 2000E primer and a coat or two of paint. Hopefully in the future I'll be able to upgrade the finish.

Thanks again for setting a wonderful standard. It's a wonderful feeling to know that there are still fine craftsmen in the world like there were when I was a kid growing up outside of Boston, Mass.

WildBill
04-07-2013, 09:31 AM
Michel,

You are doing it right! For countless generations, man has used whatever is readily available to fulfill his needs. I have built several small boats from "re-purposed" lumber. These small details serve to make your boat more unique and the whole experience more rewarding!

Bill

RevWhop
04-07-2013, 11:25 AM
I have used illstreet products. Not for boat building mind you but was still of amphibious nature was for rc car chassis. Running thru puddles across rocks and sand. I ordered a laminating kit and some carbon/kevlar both products top notch The epoxy has held up wonderfully takes abrasion extremly well no delamination of carbon layers that I have seen on some similar retail products.
On control cable length. I measure from mount point along route path to mount point for my length. Most Cables get measured end to end.

woodpile
04-08-2013, 05:15 PM
Michel,

You are doing it right! For countless generations, man has used whatever is readily available to fulfill his needs. I have built several small boats from "re-purposed" lumber. These small details serve to make your boat more unique and the whole experience more rewarding!

Bill

Yep, it's easy if you've got the bucks to buy the best of everything to build a boat but IMHO the guy who can figure out how to do it on a budget with what's available will learn more and have more appreciation when it's done.

Chan
04-09-2013, 02:46 PM
Great thread, have the molds for the jericho ready to go. With so much glass and epoxy might as well build the boat with lumber yard spruce!
I will be using DF for all the structure and rails etc. It would be a real shame to use mahogany unless someone wants to finish the boat bright, which would be an oxymoron for a Jericho Bay Lobster Skiff.

MichelW
04-11-2013, 09:09 AM
So nice to have found such a supportive forum.
I did one half of the hull each day the past two days with the 1708 biaxial. It went very well and I had ideal temperatures starting in the morning around 68 and climbing to 82 in the afternoon in my garage (which I can either cool or heat if needed, but didn't need to).

Since I had such a hard time to put down 6oz. cloth on wet resin before and pretty much ruined the cloth, I didn't want to try adding thin cloth to the tacky resin on the 1708, being my first experience with biaxial. I am wondering if adding 4 or 6 oz cloth over the biaxial after I lightly sand it with 80 grit will get me a smooth surface. It seems like I could sand/epoxy the biaxial about 4 times and maybe get a smooth surface but I'd rather go with the cloth if it will work.

What I deserve right now is a good "I told you so", but I had to try.

http://mikesboats.com/jerichobaywithcloth.JPG

http://mikesboats.com/jerichobaytransomwithcloth.JPG

Russell Brown
04-11-2013, 11:12 AM
I think you deserve congratulations on what looks like a really fine glass job. I saw the photo at the beginning of the thread and had to investigate.
I was interested that no one suggested a thickened fill coat over the glass. Microlight filler is great for thickening a fill coat. If a small enough amount is mixed into the epoxy, it can be rolled out evenly and will flow out well. It can take a couple of coats before the surface is ready for the long board, but it's pretty easy to apply and the microlight, even in small amounts makes sanding so much easier. We apply the fill coat when the epoxy is still green so that it will adhere without sanding.
Anyway, it looks good,
Russell

MichelW
04-11-2013, 03:02 PM
Thanks,
I do have some west system microfiber here that I could mix with the epoxy. I used a bit of it on my Classic Dinghy but ended up trying to sand it all off because it clashed too much with the wood where I needed a clear finish. When I did try it, it was mixed pretty thickly and was not very easy to sand, but maybe if I just use a bit, I'll be able to still fair the hull without too much difficulty. The WoodenBoat article about building the Jericho Bay shows that they used the same cloth as I did and then used microfibers and resin as you suggested to get it fair. It will save me 80 bucks if it works and I still have tons of epoxy left.
m

MichelW
04-11-2013, 05:40 PM
Stop in your tracks if you are talking about 403 west system. Later on this evening i will create a lengthy reply that hopefully will save you some work.

Thanks. It's the 410 that I have plenty of because I didn't use it on my clear Classic Dinghy. I had great results with the west 405 (i think) filleting blend. The 405 also dries brown, which was a good match for my cedar, and I'll get more of it for bonding and filleting the outer stem, gunwales and keel of this boat. After two days of fiberglassing that hull I don't want to hear about fiberglass or epoxy for a few days....he he!

I love your signature! "The boat is rock solid, but needs work."

Chan
04-14-2013, 02:04 PM
Have you checked out RAKA epoxy, it's relatively inexpensive, 2:1 mix, low blush, they even have a slightly more expensive UV resistant (proof) resin and hardener, a good line of cloths and fillers. They're located in Fl. I live in Maine and I have never waited more than 2 days from order to delivery at a very low shipping cost ( not even sure they charge shipping). For fairing a painted hull I would recommend Wests pink super light filler, don't know the # or auto body filler, the tan west filler is pretty tough to sand as is all of wests epoxys.

MichelW
04-14-2013, 04:36 PM
Thanks Chan! I'll check out the West pink filler. Gonna have to find out what number that is.
For now I decided to leave it alone for awhile and put on the keel, outer stem and gunwales. As I forget about the difficulty of putting on the
1708 biaxial, Ill slowly get pumped up to fair the hull smooth. At this point I think I will try to put on some 5 oz glass and then roll on a few coats of epoxy since
I'm not that impressed yet with the solidity of the hull. It will probably be solid enough though once the 7 oz glass is done on the inside, but in any case, if I think I can get a good bond with the 5 oz cloth, that is probably what I will do. Keel was tough to put on but I used two 1x2 strips of white oak for it instead of a 2x2 to get the hog shape without much difficulty. Happy so far with the progress.

I also built two jigs to get a one inch x 12 inch and one inch by 14 inch scarf cut on the table saw so I can scarf the mahogany gunwales next. The one in 14 jig was used to get the slope for the front of the keel where it meets the outer stem. Worked well for that purpose.

Thanks again for the Raka info. Saw their website awhile back and good to hear positive feedback about them. If they have the 5 oz finish cloth, I might order it there.
Peace,
Mike

http://mikesboats.com/jerichobaylobsterskiffkeel1.jpg

MichelW
04-15-2013, 06:56 PM
Just an update. Epoxied the outer stem today. The mahogany stem strips mated with the front of the white oak keel very nicely. Now I'm not exactly sure how to finish the keel/stem. My plan is to round over the keel portion slightly with as small as a 1/8th roundover bit on my laminate trimmer or maybe a slightly larger curve and then whittle the front of the stem down to about 3/4 inch using a plane, sander and spoke shave. I'm not much good with a spoke shave or hand plane usually, so we will see. Next step is to scarf the mahogany outer gunwales and epoxy them together. That will give me 5 days to get the stem/keel ready in the meantime. After that it will be time to figure out how to fair the hull.
best regards,
mike in Tucker, GA
http://mikesboats.com/jerichobaylobsterskiffstem.jpg

MichelW
04-15-2013, 07:07 PM
Don,
Can you take a measurement on your boat and tell me how tall the front of your stem sticks up, above the top of the sheerline/gunwale? I'm planning to finish mine the same way to tie it to a trailer without adding a bow-eye. Would just like to have a good idea of how tall it needs to be to look nice. Yours looks aok to me.
peace

Chan
04-16-2013, 06:26 PM
Michel,
What did you use for planking and the stem? The hull looks great, pretty boat. Good luck with the fabrics and coatings, be as neat as you can that **** can be a bear to sand out sags etc.

MichelW
04-16-2013, 07:08 PM
Thanks Chan.
The planking is mostly old Western Red Cedar and some Eastern White Cedar, and the Stem (Inner and Outer) are from Central American Mahogany. I was lucky that a neighbor threw out the wood from her basement and that my other neighbor replaced his old cedar deck! BY:D
Got to try out my new jig to cut scarfs on the tablesaw today. It made perfect 1 in 12 cuts for a 10 inch scarf in the 3/4 x 1 3/4 inch mahogany gunwales.
Hope the bond will hold!
http://mikesboats.com/tablesawscarfingjig.jpg

woodpile
04-17-2013, 03:07 PM
Don,
Can you take a measurement on your boat and tell me how tall the front of your stem sticks up, above the top of the sheerline/gunwale? I'm planning to finish mine the same way to tie it to a trailer without adding a bow-eye. Would just like to have a good idea of how tall it needs to be to look nice. Yours looks aok to me.
peace

Mike, the stem is 3-3 1/8" above the breasthook/sheer line with the top trimmed parallel to the sheel line. You may want to consider installing a bow eye, the stem post works great for the launch rope and and an extra securing point to the trailer. When loading the boat on a trailer the winch strap should be parallel to the trailer, using the stem post may be a little too high causing a downward load angle and increase resistance against the trailer. You can see in this picture what the angle from the stem down to the winch is. Your hull looks great, can see the "hog" down the keel, it actually does seem to help the boat get on plane a little easier.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/donfromct/IMG_0654.jpg

WildBill
04-17-2013, 08:10 PM
Looking good Mike. Don't be afraid to break out the mini grinder with a 36 gr. disk to remove the bulk of the wood on either side of the stem. Long, smooth passes holding the disk at the desired finished angle. Then clean it up with a block plane.

From the pics, your glasswork appears to be pretty fair. If I were you, I would just start fairing the hull with whatever paint system you are planning to use. I think adding more glass would be a waste of time and money.

Also, you will save a ton of time by painting the hull before you flip it.

Chan
04-18-2013, 01:16 PM
That's a beauty wood pile.
Michelw, you need a good spoke shave, I labored for a long time not being able to get a spokeshave to do anything, bought a wood river spoke shave from woodcraft, right out of the box it was like an epiphany nearly transparent shavings just curled from the plane

Chan
04-18-2013, 01:19 PM
Woodpile,
If you don't mind could you tell me what you paid for the trailer?

woodpile
04-18-2013, 05:10 PM
Chan, it's a Load Rite 16-150076DW, listed for $1,180.00, drive away total was $954.00 @ Boats Inc., Niantic, Ct., the tongue jack came with it. It's probably a little heavy for the boat weight but we do some 300+ mile tows on our not so good north east roads. Would probably have gone lighter if it was only used for short tows.

MichelW
04-18-2013, 07:52 PM
That's a beauty wood pile.
Michelw, you need a good spoke shave, I labored for a long time not being able to get a spokeshave to do anything, bought a wood river spoke shave from woodcraft, right out of the box it was like an epiphany nearly transparent shavings just curled from the plane

Ya, I was looking at spokeshaves online last night. I did the wrong thing and got the cheapest one online awhile back (Stanley) but it's really hard to use. I did have some luck getting the curve started with my block plane though and I was thinking of using it for a bit and then switching over to the sander if I can't get a good spokeshave on time. Is the spokeshave you refer to the one about 51 bucks?

About the fairing of the 1708 biaxial: I sanded one side of it with 80 grit and then I put on two coats of epoxy with West fairing additive 410 (beige) just enough to thicken the epoxy a bit. Now the weave is fully covered but it's still a smooth rippled hull. It's a tossup now between putting on a thin glass cloth and two coats of epoxy or just buying a gallon of Interlux 2000 primer and giving it about 5 coats and calling it "good enough". Not sure yet, but for now I can finish the other side and then put on the gunwales. At any rate, this hull is going to be plenty tough for me.

Trying to make a bit of progress every day...
peace everyone,
m

MichelW
04-18-2013, 08:32 PM
I am very happy now that the epoxy has gotten hard on the half of the hull I completed today with the two coats of epoxy thickened a bit with West 410 Micro Fibers (Fairing) additive. Was thinking that the West 410 was coloring the epoxy but it is actually like a suspended dust in the epoxy which I can now see. Would have to get some tint if I want to change the color of the epoxy in the future...

....so at this point I think I will plan on using a few coats of primer (probably the interlux 2000) followed by the topcoat(s)...

I'm so happy with the one side of the hull I could burst. Not looking forward to the other half, but I'll get over it. BY:D

http://mikesboats.com/jerichobayhalfhull.jpg

Russell Brown
04-18-2013, 11:46 PM
Michel,
I'm glad that you found the right filler for thickening the fill coat. Even though you added only a little bit of filler, the sanding should be much easier than if it was straight epoxy. My practice has been to fair with a long board and random-orbit. I never use primer, but instead use only epoxy and low density fillers until the hull is fair and then coat the hull with one thin coat of un-thickened epoxy that is then sanded with fine sandpaper to prepare for painting. We use a two part polyurethane paint that goes on with a roller (without tipping with a brush) and these paint jobs look really good without a lot of pain.

MichelW
04-19-2013, 09:53 AM
Thanks Don!
Ya, I saw this photo of yours before and it seem liked your boat was sitting nicely enough to avoid the bow eye....I'll reconsider now...
Need to prime and paint soon and am more confused than ever about what to use. My boat will be in the garage more than in the water, and I will be
using it on freshwater lakes mostly but hope to use it on the ocean in the future....

Anyway, thanks for getting back to me,
mike

JimConlin
04-19-2013, 02:25 PM
I am very happy now that the epoxy has gotten hard on the half of the hull I completed today with the two coats of epoxy thickened a bit with West 410 Micro Fibers (Fairing) additive. ...
You seem to be confusing two West System additives.
West System 403 microfibers is a milled cotton fiber additive used to thicken epoxy used especially to bond wood.
West System 410 microlight is a very light bubble filler used for fairing. Per cubic inch, it's both lighter and less costly than neat epoxy, so using it to fill weave interstices is OK. It doesn't like high temperatures, so you might prefer 407, a phenolic microballoon or other vendors' quartz microspheres for this application.

WildBill
04-19-2013, 05:48 PM
Whatever brand of paint you choose, follow their directions. If they recommend their primer, use it!

I would recommend using a system that incorporates a heavy, spray-able fairing compound. You only build it once. Spend the time to make the hull slick and you will not regret it.

MichelW
04-19-2013, 09:24 PM
You seem to be confusing two West System additives.


Ya, I'm lucky with my two remaining brain cells to even get the "Micro" part right. I should have just said West 410.

MichelW
04-19-2013, 10:08 PM
Spend the time to make the hull slick and you will not regret it.
Perfect! The fairing of this hull is a larger project than anything I've ever tackled...and requiring more patience than I can usually muster, so thanks for the
push to do it right.

I need to look into a sprayer now. I do have a small compressor already.

Nighttime temp tonight will go down to 39 degrees, so it's all I can do to keep it at 60 for now in the garage. Gonna be about a week until it's warm enough to do any more epoxy work...

Clamped on the outer gunwales for now to get them used to the bend and maybe make it easier to clamp them when the time comes to attach them permanently.
peace,
mike

MichelW
04-19-2013, 10:29 PM
Michel,
I never use primer, but instead use only epoxy and low density fillers until the hull is fair and then coat the hull with one thin coat of un-thickened epoxy that is then sanded with fine sandpaper to prepare for painting. We use a two part polyurethane paint that goes on with a roller (without tipping with a brush) and these paint jobs look really good without a lot of pain.

This would be the most convenient way of finishing the hull for me at this point. I could put on more epoxy and a two part polyurethane paint without primer if it isn't needed. I have tons of epoxy, paint brushes and rollers left. Can you tell me what paint you use?

MichelW
04-20-2013, 08:51 AM
Looking good Mike. Don't be afraid to break out the mini grinder with a 36 gr. disk to remove the bulk of the wood on either side of the stem.

Well my wife won 11K bucks a few months ago and gave me my "share". I took that thousand bucks and got what I needed for the boat hull and now that thousand bucks is all gone! LOL (funny but mostly true...she did win the money from Quicken Loans)

The Ryobi grinder bit the dust a few weeks ago, as did the third Rigid rotary sander....so when I had to trim the inner stem to accept the front end of the strips, I actually used my trusty Milwaukee Sawzall with a demo blade sort of like a grinder. It was sort of like being a chain saw ice sculptor. The mahogany sands a LOT easier than the white oak, so it's not really an issue to form the point of the outer stem.

I keep losing my patience, but then I wait a day and it returns. All will go well on this boat, one step at a time. BY:D

WildBill
04-20-2013, 07:30 PM
I feel your pain brother, keep chugging along. This race is a marathon, not a sprint. I think you have the right attitude. Cheers!

Bill

MichelW
04-25-2013, 10:45 AM
Has anyone had good results with an outer hull paint that I can roll on to my final coat of epoxy before it finishes setting without using a primer? Specifics would be appreciated.

MichelW
04-27-2013, 10:14 PM
Michel,
I'm glad that you found the right filler for thickening the fill coat. Even though you added only a little bit of filler, the sanding should be much easier than if it was straight epoxy. My practice has been to fair with a long board and random-orbit. I never use primer, but instead use only epoxy and low density fillers until the hull is fair and then coat the hull with one thin coat of un-thickened epoxy that is then sanded with fine sandpaper to prepare for painting. We use a two part polyurethane paint that goes on with a roller (without tipping with a brush) and these paint jobs look really good without a lot of pain.

Russell, Can you tell me what that paint is that you use?
thanks,
mike

jayaye
07-03-2013, 07:22 AM
Gentlemen
I am most impressed with what you have achieved with your JBLS's. I am in Adelaide Australia and have commenced building with the frames set up on the strong back. Have milled 90 bead and cove Western Red Cedar strips 1" x 1/2" using a good friend of mines cabinet making workshop.Table saw, thicknesser, bandsaw and router.
Only have the laminates for the stem to mill and am proposing to use Oregon for this.
I have laminated the transom from 4 x 1/2" pieces of marine ply and used off cuts for the breast hook and quarter knees.
A few questions if I may
1. Fastening the strips to the transom and stem. What are your thoughts on using 1 1/4" SiBronze ring nails instead of screws?
2. The building notes in WB 110 & 111 recommend fibreglassing the inside of the transom prior to fitting to the strong back. Won't the outboard motor clamps be rather harsh on this or would a sacrificial clamping surface be added? What is wrong with just painting the transom and not fibreglassing it?
3. The external keel is recommended at 2" x 2" scribed to fit the hog. Would an inch higher keel be advantageous IE 2"wide x 3"high?
4. I have started thinking about the fit out of the interior and am keen to fit a centre console and seat. Woodpile your mock up of a console looks to be what I am contemplating. Would you care to share dimensions for me to consider?
cheers
John

MichelW
07-03-2013, 09:53 AM
Hi,
I'm just about done with my Jericho Bay and am really happy to have built the boat. It's my greatest woodworking achievement to date.
Regarding your questions....
1. I also used bronze ring nails to attach my strips to the stem. its not going anywhere.
2. I fiberglassed the inside and outside of the transom with 7 oz fiberglass and after it was on the boat and the strips finished I added one more layer of 7 oz to the outside...since it is going to be varnished....and added one layer of 10 oz to the inside to make it tougher for the motor clamps. In the area where the motor will be clamped I will add a "sacrificial" 1/4 inch of mahogany...but on my other boat, the transom has only one layer of 7 oz cloth on the inside and the motor clamps have not even dented this after using it for one season. The west epoxy on that boat is HARD!
3. for my keel, i used white oak. I also am not into scribing hardwood so i cut the oak into 1 inch by 2 inch strips and put on one at a time. the half inch hog is actually 1 full inch on my boat and the oak bent easily for the hog. After i laminated the first one, i laminated the second 1x2 on top of the first one. It's also fine.
4. no comment but i also like the woodpile fishing set up...but im not that far along yet.
best regards and have lots of fun with the boatbuilding....I did!
Mike in Atlanta

MichelW
07-03-2013, 09:56 AM
I forgot to mention that on my 2 x 2 inch keel I will be adding a 3/4 inch strip of white teflon so that I dont have to worry about dragging the boat on the ground...so my finished keel will end up 2 x 2 3/4. I will let you know how the boat handles in about two more weeks.
peace,
mike

MichelW
07-03-2013, 10:07 AM
Hi Don,
trying to figure out how many inches down from the tip of the bow (where the top of the gunwales would meet at the bow...) I should install my bow eye. In this picture of your boat on the loadrite trailer....it looks like it should go right where we see the horizontal section of winch cable...is that correct? I'm not experienced with trailering boats. If it isnt too much trouble, maybe you could measure it for me? I don't have the trailer yet so there is no rush.
Thanks,
Mike

jayaye
07-06-2013, 12:24 AM
Hi Mike
Many thanks for your response.
Your affirmation on the ring nails was appreciated. Did you pre-drill the strips or countersink to accommodate the nail head to counter any tendency to split at the ends?
Your idea on laminating the keel has merit; did you plane / trim the keel flat so it doesn't follow the hog in the bottom?
The white Teflon is a good idea. I had been thinking of something similar to use on the stem in lieu of the half round brass strip but this would require leaving the stem approximately 3/4" wide which I don't believe would detract from appearances or performance?
Cheers
John

jayaye
07-06-2013, 12:28 AM
[QUOTE=woodpile;3746750]The steering is no big deal, the Teleflex SAFE-T QC works fine with small outboards, best pricing I found was Defender, $139.99

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|7504|906014|314189&id=337395

The only variable is determining a good length for the cables, steering, shift and throttle. Here's a few pics showing a console mock up using a piece of garden hose to simulate the control cables.
]

jayaye
07-06-2013, 12:36 AM
Hi Woodpile
I am interested in the dimensions of the centre console in your photo above.
I am in Adelaide South Australia and am in the early stages of construction of the hull. I will commence strip planking in the next week or so, so the console construction is a long way off yet!
If you are able to share the dimensions of the centre console you finally arrived at I would be most appreciative. I propose incorporating a fixed seat or a swivel seat with the console.
Regards
John

MichelW
07-06-2013, 04:47 PM
Hi,
Ya, I predrilled for the ring nails....only busted one and just ground it off with my grinder...no problem. Those nails really just have to hold the strips until the outer stem sandwiches them...but of course they remain and continue to hold even after that...

They way my strips transitioned at the bottom of the stem (where the stem meets the keel) ended up making the hog in the hull go from a half inch to a whole inch...and the keel strips follow that 1 inch hog. I didn't care, like i said, to modify that. If that ruins the boat then I guess I'll burn it and buy a 17 Montauk Boston Whaler....hehe!

The front of my stem will have exposed (varnished) mahogany down to the waterline...and it will have the brass strip from the top of the stem all the way down below the waterline to wherever my teflon begins. If the boat is sitting on a flat floor, the teflon will come to about 2 inches above the height of the floor and taper into the stem. I'll post pics when that is done. Basically I want to be able to drag the boat (not on purpose) when necessary on the ground without the front of the teflon getting caught on anything.

Anyway, Ill post some more pics here soon on my progress....just coming in the door from a few days down in Savannah.
mike

woodpile
07-07-2013, 05:32 PM
Hi John,
Have a dimensioned sketch of the center console but having a problem with the printer scan, will get it to you as soon as I figure out the printer problem or if you have a FAX and send me a private message with the number I can fax it to you.
The swivel seat is nice, especially for fishing. Mine's mounted on a box that's hinged to the deck and houses a 7 gal. fuel tank.
Best of luck down under there with the build, it's a great little boat.

Don

jayaye
07-10-2013, 07:12 AM
Thanks Don. I look forward to the info when your electronic problems are solved.
John

jayaye
07-10-2013, 07:24 AM
Gentlemen
I have cut out my moulds from the full size plans I purchased from the Wooden Boat Store and set them up on the strong back.
a straight edge over top of moulds 2,3 & 4 sits pretty well flush on all 3.
The hog in the bottom occurs aft of mould 4.
The straight edge from mould 4 over moulds 5,6 & 7 has some significant discrepancies.
looking at the plan side view on sheet 2 of 15 shows a gentle upward curve from mould 4 to the transom.
Am I right in assuming that these moulds 5, 6 & 7 need to be adjusted up and down to create a smooth curve using a long batten?
Your experience in how you set the moulds up would be appreciated.
John

woodpile
07-10-2013, 02:36 PM
Gentlemen
I have cut out my moulds from the full size plans I purchased from the Wooden Boat Store and set them up on the strong back.
a straight edge over top of moulds 2,3 & 4 sits pretty well flush on all 3.
The hog in the bottom occurs aft of mould 4.
The straight edge from mould 4 over moulds 5,6 & 7 has some significant discrepancies.
looking at the plan side view on sheet 2 of 15 shows a gentle upward curve from mould 4 to the transom.
Am I right in assuming that these moulds 5, 6 & 7 need to be adjusted up and down to create a smooth curve using a long batten?
Your experience in how you set the moulds up would be appreciated.
John

Your assumptions are correct John, don't remember which stations needed tweaking but there we're a few. Using a batten is the way to go and for the most part the small irregularities will either disappear when you release the hull from the moulds or get sanded off during finishing.

MichelW
07-10-2013, 04:54 PM
Hi,
I also noticed that problem with the station molds but I left them as the plans called for.....and my hull (as Don mentioned) ended up with a very smooth hog nonetheless. I sometimes left the strips float a little bit off the moulds instead of forcing them to take too much of a curve where the stations were "off".
Best regards, and hoping you have a great time building yours. Mine is about to be loaded on its new trailer this evening or tomorrow morning for the first time.
Michel

WildBill
07-20-2013, 03:07 PM
I found that station 6 was off. I raised the station on the strongback until it was fair with the keel and refastened. The sides needed to be "grown" out about 1/4", which was accomplished with some thin strips of scrap and epoxy. I had about 5/8" of hog in our JBLS's bottom. Since the inside was all varnished, I could not screw the keel through the bottom. After scribing the mahogany to fit the hog, I glued and clamped it in place using temporary blocks that I had previously glued to the hull as anchoring points. When dry, The blocks were simply ground off.

Good Luck to all!
Bill

MichelW
07-26-2013, 09:08 PM
Hi everyone!
Just about to start putting paint on the hull of the Jericho Bay. Paint is on order from iBoats.
I put up a slideshow at YouTube of the construction from start to "finish".
It's at http://youtu.be/yuDJ3FYnh4c if anyone is interested.
Best regards and happy boating/boatbuilding to all.
mike

jayaye
07-27-2013, 02:19 AM
Hi Mike
Many thanks for your great You-Tube posting of your JBLS building experience. You have done an excellent job in building with some of the materials being 2nd hand; you certainly are a dab hand at scarfing.
It's ironed out a few questions I had in the back of my mind regarding (1.) whether the laminated stem continued aft of station two & (2.)the method of clamping you used by putting some scrap timber cleats on the moulds to give clamps something to hold to.
By the way, did you use staples to temporarily hold the strips together while the epoxy set?
You sure achieved a lot of progress in 1 month in February and must have a very understanding partner to be allowed to commandeer the kitchen table for laminating up the stem. I laminated mine up last weekend and will try fitting it up to the stem profile this weekend.
Thanks also to Bill and Woodpile for your responses to the question I had on adjusting the moulds to the line of best fit.
cheers
John

MichelW
07-27-2013, 09:57 AM
Jayaye,
I posted the video but I really should try to make one again so I can make comments on some of the slides.
The stem plan should have a mark where the forward part of the stem meets the strongback. This would have showed us
all exactly where the fore and aft ends of the stem should be. I just used my best judgement. It is also very hard to cut the end of the stem after the strips are
on, so I strongly suggest cutting the stem flush or at a taper BEFORE it becomes covered with strips.

I used regular titebond (not titebond two or three) carpenters glue to glue my strips together. When the strips became too hard to stay snug together using only clamps, I drilled with a very small bit and nailed
down thru the middle of the strips using small stainless steel nails and setting them with a punch in order to preserve the edge of the fragile cove of the strips. I put hundreds of these to hold my strips. A few went astray and came out thru the side of the hull, so instead of trying to pull them out the way they went in, i pulled them straight thru using needle nose pliers to grab the tip that protruded the hull.

For the Scarfing, I think I made two simple jigs to cut two different scarf lengths. I simply used a small piece of scrap plywood and a small piece of 4 x 4 to make each one and then used the table saw mitre to push them on the table saw after clamping my strip to the jig. Spent a lot of hours mulling over the scarfing topic and scouring the internet, but this last idea ended up being the simplest and easiest for me to achieve a great scarf.

Good luck with your boat and I hope to see pictures of it soon!

jayaye
09-10-2013, 07:08 AM
Gentlemen
re the JBLS.
With the placement of the seat stringers on the inside of the hull, where are the measurements from the building frame to their location. I don't seem to be able to locate any dimensions on the plans.
Am I missing something?
Also in the table of WL dimensions, WL14, the water line. Are these measurements scaled up from the base line and is this base line the building frame?
CHEERS
John

jayaye
08-23-2015, 03:40 AM
Hi everyone!
Just about to start putting paint on the hull of the Jericho Bay. Paint is on order from iBoats.
I put up a slideshow at YouTube of the construction from start to "finish".
It's at http://youtu.be/yuDJ3FYnh4c if anyone is interested.
Best regards and happy boating/boatbuilding to all.
mike
Hi Mike
I have finally completed my JBLS and if you would care to send me your email address I will send you a few photos.
I can't seem to figure out how to attach photos on this site.
Hope you are enjoying yours through the summer months?
cheers
John Adamson
mrjadamson1@gmail.com

tim61
12-13-2015, 11:12 AM
Woodpile. On the floor I am interested in how you finished it off. i.e. Did you put in flotation under the floor? How? What did you put on top of the floor supports? Did you add a bilge pump and where?

woodpile
12-13-2015, 06:35 PM
Woodpile. On the floor I am interested in how you finished it off. i.e. Did you put in flotation under the floor? How? What did you put on top of the floor supports? Did you add a bilge pump and where?

Tim, floor is 1/2" DF marine grade plywood with a layer of 6 oz. glass cloth on it, glassed after sections we're fitted before installation. Yes there is flotation, pieces of 2" closed cell foam fitted between floor supports. Yes, there is a bilge pump installed, refer to the picture in post #15 and you can see the white pump outflow fitting, pump is under the floor in that corner.

Don