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RFNK
03-22-2013, 04:40 PM
I probably need my head read for buying an Apple product - I've never had any luck with them and Apple have never heard of customer support! When the WB subscription works on the iPad, it's great - very convenient. But, there are problems which lead me to have to recommend not going with this option. Firstly, if you're not permanently connected to the internet, then you can't access your WB collection until you reconnect. Secondly, if there's any kind of problem, the iPad gives you no information about what's going on - it says helpful things like 'unavailable' or, more usually shows you a circle of dots. Thirdly, when your iPad collapses i.e., won't charge anymore, then you find out that Apple have made a product that can't be worked on - at all. So, if the iPad is still under warranty (mine collapsed after 2 months)' they then give you a new one after staring at it for a week. The new one contains no data at all. It's all unrecoverable unless you've backed up to the 'Cloud'. So, yes, you can get some data back, if you have days to wait for the Cloud to drip feed your iPad. But it doesn't replace your WB magazine collection - presumably you have to go back and download each edition again. Funnily enough, I'm trying to do that now - so I have a blank screen with a circle of dots on it, going round and round.

Don't do it! Buy paper or download the digital edition to a hard drive.

Rick

Reynard38
03-22-2013, 05:01 PM
Bummer. I've had my IPad 1 for 4 years and never had any issues.

RFNK
03-22-2013, 05:33 PM
You're lucky. I've never had an Apple product that didn't have problems!

Rick

Phil Y
03-22-2013, 10:20 PM
Bummer. I've had my IPad 1 for 4 years and never had any issues. Yah, I think Rick had all the issues, but then lost them. Better than never having them I guess;)

Duncan Gibbs
03-22-2013, 11:41 PM
It's his chicken hating attitude which has caused him this grief... I'm sure of it!

RFNK
03-23-2013, 01:29 AM
Slander! I do not hate chickens - I do not kill chickens - in fact I don't even eat chickens! I do eat apples ... grrrr!

And Phil's right - I've lost about 8 issues I think! Reeeeeaaaaallllly annoying!

Rick

St.J
03-23-2013, 02:02 AM
I agree that the current app is a bit ropey.
I was irked when I lost the issues from the old app.
Rather than bother with the rather clunky and slow app I just download each issue and then read them from Goodreader. Then they're available offline.
St.J

Songololo
03-23-2013, 02:15 AM
Is there not an option to download a digital WB issue as a PDF file? For an example of what I mean, see this sample issue and the instructions for downloading a PDF file (last item in the text on the left) : http://read.woodenboat.com/?iid=73858#folio=1

Carl Cramer
03-23-2013, 09:54 AM
Hi, all. Sorry, we're still having technical issues with iTunes. They're maddening.

We got an actual name of someone there. But she apparently dislikes replying to emails....

We'll keep trying....

Thanks, Carl

Carl Cramer
03-23-2013, 09:54 AM
Oh, and -- yes. You can download as pdfs.

Thorne
03-23-2013, 09:57 AM
Being an Apple / Mac tech support person, the issue looks to me as what we call PEBCAK. Sorry to hear that your iPad packed it in after a few months, but why not use another brand of pad computer and then compare your experience? I think you'll find that both the WB software and the device works fine, but you've got to back up your data if you don't want to lose it when moving to a new iPad / device! Either back it up locally to your computer via iTunes, or via iCloud.

No backup = no data, hence your downloading efforts now. Think of backing up data like putting the wood chisels away properly. If you leave 'em out in the rain or in piles of sawdust, don't complain when you lose 'em....

Here's a few links on how to do the backup, often a bit confusing as it is quite different from the sync process.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1766

http://ipod.about.com/od/ipadhowtos/qt/back-up-ipad.htm

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407487,00.asp

RFNK
03-23-2013, 03:32 PM
Oh, I see, it's my fault! I left my chisels out in the rain! Oh, wait a minute, no - I actually used Apple's advice and backed up to the 'Cloud'. But Apple's cloud is a bit like Heaven it seems. St Peter doesn't admit WB magazine or perhaps, rather, loves it so much he won't let it out again - not without a fight, anyway. And Apple's cloud has surprises galore. I particularly love the one where after a month or two of backing up to Apple's cloud, I get a little message saying I don't have enough cloud space, so if I want to keep using my iPad without another computer ( imagine wanting that!!), I have to pay rent. And cloud download times - legendary!

Yes, you're right about comparing the iPad to other devices. I've been using other devices for 30 years and only had problems with Apple! So, as I said, I must have needed my head read for falling for another Apple product again. Won't ever happen again, that's for sure!

Rick

RFNK
03-23-2013, 04:07 PM
Oh, by the way. When I finally got the replacement iPad from Apple (note REPLACEMENT - it suicided, I didn't leave it out in the rain), you'll be astonished to know that I did indeed follow Apple's advice and proceed to 'Restore from iCloud'. As an Apple support person, you won't be at all surprised to hear that IT DOESN'T WORK. After a month of trying to look at WB magazine online, your cloud is still running around in circles, and I can't see any of the WB issues I paid for.

How unsurprised I am to hear that Apple doesn't return emails about problems with iTunes!

Rick

RFNK
03-23-2013, 04:22 PM
Okay Carl, since Apple are only interested in lecturing people about what they think they should have done, and are not interested in actually resolving any issue, what are my options? I can't get the issues I've bought via the iPad so how can I download the issues to my laptop (it's a Sony, so it works)?

Rick

Duncan Gibbs
03-23-2013, 04:50 PM
I do eat apples ... grrrr!

I think you've lost your data:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7VhUeBbafPE/UC9JzsRH0NI/AAAAAAAAECE/Q128K1Fpbxo/s1600/3389124067_9b70b6254d.jpg

I always back up to a physical source nearby (another computer, external hard drive).

Maybe Carl can send the PDFs you lost. You can get 'em for two bucks straight off the WB site as back issues.

I've never had dramas unless I don't back up and it was a PC... Talk about data loss... Crimminy!

RFNK
03-23-2013, 05:28 PM
How can I make this clearer? Apple recommends backing data up to their cloud. But this doesn't work. When it doesn't work, the Apple Defender says, oh, you should have backed it up to a PC. So yes, if you use an iPad, make sure you treat it only as an expensive peripheral - it doesn't work as a standalone device. Apple tricks people into thinking it can be used as a standalone because it has this iCloud BS. It doesn't work. Apple's iCloud is a disaster and Apple's entire communication and 'support' system is hopeless.

So Duncan, I'm very pleased to hear that you always back up your data on a 'nearby' device. My suggestion is that you continue to do that. Thank you deeply for your very helpful suggestion.

Rick

Duncan Gibbs
03-23-2013, 06:28 PM
How can I make this clearer?

I heard you, but I've always thought that best practice for any device is to avoid third party back-ups, no matter what anyone - including Apple - have to say on the issue.


So yes, if you use an iPad, make sure you treat it only as an expensive peripheral - it doesn't work as a standalone device.

No more than my PC and my Mac work as "standalone" devices without an external hard drive to back up to. The trick is to use the iPad as you would use a laptop or desktop device: Back up to an easily accessible point which is your own. In this instance the data is synced with the laptop/pc and then backed up onto an external hard drive or secondary drive in the laptop/pc. In the same way you wouldn't store you tax or financial data with a third party, I don't think it's a wise move to store your other data with a third party. I think have a healthy paranoia of such arrangements.

RFNK
03-23-2013, 07:32 PM
Duncan, I've been using laptops since you were pulling little girls' pants down in kindy so I'm really not interested in a lecture about how to use them! The whole point of having an iPad- based magazine subscription is the convenience of it. With a cloud that actually worked, a cloud that wasn't some Californian's optimistic pipedream instead, that would be good. Having to frig around with iTunes etc. to back up a magazine subscription is more trouble than it's worth.

The iCloud-based subscription arrangement is a failure. My advice to prospective investors is, don't do it. If you want to maintain an iPad with a laptop and a desktop and spend your youth making sure that all that is synced to the satisfaction of Apple or others, then well and good. Do that. Otherwise, find another way to access the WB magazine.

Rick

StevenBauer
03-23-2013, 08:16 PM
I've had only good experiences with Apples cloud based backup. When I got a new phone I wanted to load all my stuff on it only to find it already there. :)

When I view a PDF document on the iPad if I click to view it in iBooks it saves it and then is viewable even when offline.

Duncan Gibbs
03-23-2013, 08:27 PM
Duncan, I've been using laptops since you were pulling little girls' pants down in kindy so I'm really not interested in a lecture about how to use them!

That's just plain rude!

I've been using computers since this one was produced:

http://images.yourdictionary.com/images/1809.11.macintosh.GIF

The next one I used was this one, running AutoCAD R1 which used lines of DOS code and a joystick:

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/Atari_PC1_System_s1.jpg

I wasn't in kindergarten in 1982: I was in high school.

I had a hotmail account as soon as it Hotmail was created. I didn't use it for long once I lost a whole swag of emails when their server crashed.

Bearing all this in mind, I wouldn't touch cloud based computing with 20,000 dpi barge pole. I'd go for a proper PDF download that I could back up every single time, no matter which platform I used. Bullet proof policy.

I am actually agreeing with you that the cloud is not a reliable form of data storage and retrieval. What I am saying is that I've never seen the iPad as a standalone device and any sales pitch about the convenience of using the Apple Cloud is nothing else than that company wanting to expand its control over all forms of content and convincing users that non-web based content can be web based and then charge for the "pleasure" of it.

You can buy terabyte externals for under a hundred bucks now, so why rely on a network that can and does drop out?

Mitziel
03-23-2013, 10:25 PM
I've had only good experiences with Apples cloud based backup. When I got a new phone I wanted to load all my stuff on it only to find it already there. :) When I view a PDF document on the iPad if I click to view it in iBooks it saves it and then is viewable even when offline.

+1. I've still got the original antique iPad I've had since day one and there's never been a more fab product in the history of personal computers.

What RFNK is suffering is UE - User Error. Instead of getting mad at something because it doesn't do what you want, I'd suggest trying to understand what it does do well and use it accordingly...including, as StevenBauer says, downloading your WBs as PDF docs so you can read offline.

How simple, really, is that!?

RFNK
03-23-2013, 10:57 PM
User error! I love that! So, it was actually my fault that the 6 month-old iPad simply died, and that the WB magazine data that was supposedly backed up to the cloud won't download to the replacement iPad! Wow! You must be the apple of Apple's eye! No data is retrievable from a dead iPad - they're a throw away item, according to Apple. So tell me, genius, where were these PDFs supposed to be stored so the WB could be read offline? Oh, right, on another computer! Fab product indeed, like, wow, far out, cooooool!

And Steve, yes, great when it all works - like most things. But when it falls apart, as it does, you find out how empty Apple's support system really is.

Okay, Duncan, must be your youthful appearance - I got my first laptop in about 1992 I think. And yes, the whole point I'm making is that the Apple hype that all you really need is the iPad and the cloud is just hype. As you say, you need to back up. Backing up any other laptop etc. is easy. You just need a XHD. Backing up the iPad is not easy. Backing up a year's WB subscription is more complicated again. I see no advantage in it.


Rick

Mitziel
03-23-2013, 11:34 PM
User error! I love that! So, it was actually my fault that the 6 month-old iPad simply died, and that the WB magazine data that was supposedly backed up to the cloud won't download to the replacement iPad! Wow! You must be the apple of Apple's eye! No data is retrievable from a dead iPad - they're a throw away item, according to Apple. So tell me, genius, where were these PDFs supposed to be stored so the WB could be read offline? Oh, right, on another computer! Fab product indeed, like, wow, far out, cooooool!...

When all else fails, RFNK, read the instructions :-((. The PDFs are stored in iBooks, accessible offline. And if you'd backed up properly, nothing would have been lost.

I was surprised to read in an earlier post that you've been involved with computers for 30 years and yet have not yet understood the importance of backups - everybody else of that vintage has "backup, backup, backup" hard-wired into them.

Bottom line is: sloppy backup practice and a failure to read the instructions is no excuse for throwing a tantrum.

PS: you also say "backing up an ipad is not easy"! Sheesh, it's a plug-in. If that's hard, how do you manage to get out of bed?

RFNK
03-23-2013, 11:49 PM
Stored in Newstand actually - you're not actually a subscriber are you? Backed up to the cloud, as recommended by Apple. IPad died. Apple replaced iPad. IBooks content won't return from the cloud.

Let me know if I need to make it simpler than that. And here's a suggestion - don't play with anything sharp!

Rick

RFNK
03-23-2013, 11:51 PM
Okay, Mitziel's a troll. Sorry everyone, I won't feed him anymore!

Rick

Duncan Gibbs
03-24-2013, 12:05 AM
I think with a product like an iPad I'd only want one if I needed it for an express purpose: As a tool. SWIMPAL has one because it's light and portable and suits her work patterns very well. Your use of one for the upcoming crossing of the ditch is another really good use for it. Like any other product it has its limitations and can also break. That Sibley chap kills PCs on an almost monthly basis. I think the iPad is a terrific device and has many, many brilliant uses, but it's not perfect and in some instances things can go really wrong, but statistically it's pretty rare.

And yes, customer follow up is piss poor. Now we know Thorne is the 'go-to-man' for issues! :)

Mitziel
03-24-2013, 12:45 AM
Okay, Mitziel's a troll. Sorry everyone, I won't feed him anymore!

I guess labelling a poster as a troll is one way to divert attention from your very public dummy spit...

RFNK
03-24-2013, 05:22 AM
I think with a product like an iPad I'd only want one if I needed it for an express purpose: As a tool. SWIMPAL has one because it's light and portable and suits her work patterns very well. Your use of one for the upcoming crossing of the ditch is another really good use for it. Like any other product it has its limitations and can also break. That Sibley chap kills PCs on an almost monthly basis. I think the iPad is a terrific device and has many, many brilliant uses, but it's not perfect and in some instances things can go really wrong, but statistically it's pretty rare.

And yes, customer follow up is piss poor. Now we know Thorne is the 'go-to-man' for issues! :)

When they work, they're terrific - I use mine constantly at work, mostly for emails, diary, internet. Its use as a navigation tool is really good as it has inbuilt GPS, although it remains to be seen how well that'll work when we lose phone tower backup. Really though, I can buy a notebook that's just as light, has much better storage, a much better keyboard, a USB port or two (what idiot designed the iPad without USB I wonder?) and I can attach a GPS thingamajig for navigation. I think that's really a better way to go. My little Sony Vaio is a great machine - this week I'm going to see if I can get Navionics downloaded to it and I'll see about the GPS thing too.

Rick

mauropiani
05-25-2013, 06:20 AM
Since I renewed my subscription with an only-digital one I have been unable to download the issues on the I Pad It just keep turning but it does not download anything I have version 5.20 When I tried to look for an updated version of Wooden Boat for iOS App I could no longer find it Any suggestion, or should I ask to revert to a paper subscription ?

StevenBauer
05-25-2013, 08:21 AM
I guess you guys don't have Apple Stores down there. At the Apple Store here there are hordes of smart friendly folks just hanging around waiting to help people with issues. Hardware, software, whatever. Usually without any cost. Is this an Apple Australia issue?


Steven

cprinos
05-25-2013, 10:41 PM
Since I renewed my subscription with an only-digital one I have been unable to download the issues on the I Pad It just keep turning but it does not download anything I have version 5.20 When I tried to look for an updated version of Wooden Boat for iOS App I could no longer find it Any suggestion, or should I ask to revert to a paper subscription ?

Its available through the "magzster" app now rather than its own app.

pcford
05-25-2013, 10:41 PM
I guess you guys don't have Apple Stores down there. At the Apple Store here there are hordes of smart friendly folks just hanging around waiting to help people with issues. Hardware, software, whatever. Usually without any cost. Is this an Apple Australia issue?


Steven

It's not just the "Genius Bar" that this guy went to...it seems that Apple's reputation in terms of quality and service has deteriorated. Apple's halo has slipped.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-57584415-82/what-my-disabled-ipod-touch-says-about-the-state-of-apples-customer-service/?tag=nl.e497&s_cid=e497&ttag=e497

Breakaway
05-25-2013, 10:46 PM
I have apple equipment through my employer--phone, pad, macbook. I get help from the IT guys when I need it. The few times I have tried getting help myself from Apple--as compared to Dell, Panasonic, and Sony which I also own(ed)-it has been piss poor. Even the apple forums stink: they all respond to simple questions as though I was supposed to be a computer geek.

But, I will say that I have not had trouble as often as I have had with PC computers, and Blackberry's service was equally bad when I had one of those.

kevin

pcford
05-26-2013, 01:26 AM
I have apple equipment through my employer--phone, pad, macbook. I get help from the IT guys when I need it. The few times I have tried getting help myself from Apple--as compared to Dell, Panasonic, and Sony which I also own(ed)-it has been piss poor. Even the apple forums stink: they all respond to simple questions as though I was supposed to be a computer geek.

But, I will say that I have not had trouble as often as I have had with PC computers, and Blackberry's service was equally bad when I had one of those.

kevin

Low end PCs are, let's face it, junk. You are not going to buy a decent desktop computer for under $300...though newspapers advertise them. Apple charges premium prices for what _should_ be premium machines. Unfortunately they are not.

Garret
05-26-2013, 10:40 AM
Sheesh - the folks trashing RFNK don't get it, do they? Apple markets iCloud as the way to keep all your devices backed up & synched. What is it that you don't get about that? Does it make sense to do physical backups? Sure - but his beef is that what Apple says will work does not. That makes for a very legitimate gripe IMO.

Here's what Apple's (http://www.apple.com/icloud/ ) site says:
(http://www.apple.com/icloud/):)

iCloud does more than store your content — it lets you access your music, photos, calendars, contacts, documents, and more, from whatever device you’re on. And it’s built into every new iOS device and every new Mac.

I have an iPhone - not an iPad, but I keep it backed up to my computer. Got a new iPhone, hooked it up to my computer & 10 minutes later had all my apps, music, etc. Even had my screen pics. I'm an old fart when it comes to the cloud (generic cloud - not just iCloud) - I just don't completely trust it. I also mistrust it privacy-wise. BTW, I love the iPhone - works a treat.

Penultimately, iTunes for Windows is one of the worst pieces of software ever foisted on the public - simply horrible usability.

Finally, Apple tech support does not stink, it sucks. Microsoft (long considered awful) is way better & anyone in the software biz knows what a slam that is.

Bill Huson
05-26-2013, 03:27 PM
I don't do Apple anything because = $$$. Some of their stuff is wicked cool, and they do innovate, but Apple is out of my budget. First computer for me was a "Trash 80", next up an IBM clone 8088. First thing I learned is multiple backup. I write fiction and all my stuff is on the hard drive, on flash drives, even CDs and floppies, AND hard copy = dead trees formed into paper with print affixed.