greenland kayak

[stevenj]

I got Christopher Cunningham's book 'Building the Greenland Kayak : A Manual for Its Contruction and Use' for Xmas (thanks Santa!). Anyone build one per his instructions? and do you like the boat?

thanks,
stevenj

[Arko]

You definately need to pay a visit to Qajaq USA. They are without a doubt the most knowledgable, helpful, and patient bunch whose only goal is the diffusion of knowledge of the native Inuit and Aleut cultures and thier kayaks . They will tell ya how to build em and how to paddle em.
The boat in the book, if built correctly, will not be the same for any two people since they are based on anthropometric measurements. The Greenland type hull is considered the epitome of kayak evolution though. Many,many people on the Qajaq USA web site have built using CC's book and other books as well.
Good luck, have fun and if you need anything I'll try to be of some help, kayaks are a great passion of mine.

[Arko]

Here is a link to a Cunningham plywood Greenland kayak that I always liked.
http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/mag/42/greenlandkayak.html

[Doug Canada]

For you to paddle your greenland kayak.

http://seacanoe.org/grnpadle.htm
http://www.bealepaddles.com/

Doug

[sr. jigaboni]

Built a few from his, for lack of a better description, instructions, and they are lovely. I used fir 2x4s and (eek) kiln dried oak, because we cleaned out an old dead cabinet makers' shop a while ago and I got a metric ass-load of it (it was a job, and his widow MADE us take the wood)

The steam box he describes works well, as do all of his jigs. I also used his paddle and skirt patterns; nice.

My latest has a paper skin. It is really easy to poke holes in (each new layer of shellac helps), but looks more like a dead animal than many other things I've seen. With a fabric skin, and all materials on hand, you should be able to build this boat in a month or two of evenings, assuming competency and diligence.

My three pieces of advice:
1) If you are unfamiliar with cutting compound angles, tenons and mortices, practice up first.
2) Make a little dumb sheave on each inner stem so you can set up a little tackle for your float bags... it is a lot of fun trying to stuff those things in otherwise.
3) Start. These boats are easy to build and easy to drive.

Every time I paddle my boat around the chilly mountain lake and dip my hand in, I thank the brave souls who invented the thing; and I shudder at the thought that it might have been me to venture into the frigid sea in a craft such as this, not for pleasure, but necessity. I try to imagine paddling away from shore with no life jacket; being in a storm so fierce and chilling it is warmer under water; what it would be like to sleep in that thing overnight in an extended brace; how it would feel to (hopefully) tow home a train of seals. And the whole thing is tied together with string and wooden dowels.

I love these boats.

[Boomkin Joe]

"My latest has a paper skin."

Jigaboni,

Any update of the skin condition?
How does the shellac flex with the woodwork?

Thanks.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Here's another web site. I believe they call it the "Baidarka Mailing List Archive". Even the big kahuna of baidarka building,Wolfgang Brinck, chimes in from time to time.
http://rtpnet.org/robroy/baidarka/

Charlie

[Chris Stewart]

Originally posted by Cuyahoga Chuck:
Here's another web site. I believe they call it the "Baidarka Mailing List Archive". Even the big kahuna of baidarka building,Wolfgang Brinck, chimes in from time to time.
http://rtpnet.org/robroy/baidarka/

CharlieNot to take anything away from Wolfgang Brinck and his book "The Aleutian Kayak" (unfortunately now out of print), perhaps the most knowledgeable person on baidarkas and Greenland kayaks is Harvey Golden, who also participates in both forums. He has a great website, too.

http://www.traditionalkayaks.com/

[Three Cedars]

Never read Cunningham's book but have his two-part article for building a skin-on-frame Greenland kayak from Sea Kayaker Magazine. It is well written .

I built my first kayak from Bob Boucher's video which walks one through each step of building a SOF W.Greenland kayak which is quite tippy for a beginner and hence very dangerous in cold water. I suggest building a more stable boat which in general terms means a wider bottom at the waterline and a longer waterline than what most Greenland kayaks have.

The following link shows a very useful kayak which is stable and handles well. It is from the noted Inuit kayak scholar E.Y. Arima's book " Inuit Kayaks in Canada "
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/Reddog12/18ftPovkayak.jpg

Constuction hints can be found at http://www.arctickayaks.com/PDF/Zimmerly/Sea%20Kayaker%202001/sea_kayaker_18.htm
and Arko's article in the Summmer 2003 issue of the " Masik " at http://www.qajaqusa.org/QUSA/newsletter.html

[Arko]

Three Cedars has a good point about the utility of the greenland kayak. Unless you are interested in perfecting your rolls it really posesses no real degree of comfort for touring. They will however handle just about any seas we are likely to dare to venture into.
The Greenland kayak is merely a descendant of the East Canadian/Labrador/Baffin Island types which in turn is a descendant of the Aleuts of Alaska and from across the Bering Sea.The Inuit of Northern Greenland used kayaks that were quite similar to the kayaks of the Hudson Bay/ Hudson Straight regions.
This is a truly fascinating arena of which I have yet to tire.
The Canadian kayak on Dr. David Zimmerly's site is a very utilitarian kayak. I have done just about everything you can think of from it except roll it. I've always been partial to the view above the water. I've camped from ity, fished from it, and with the addition of a small outrigger using the 11' paddle, I've slept in it. It's very fast and extremely agile. Any of the kayaks of this type are worth looking at.
Harvey Golden IS the king. Nuff said.
Any works by Eugene Arima would serve well as a guide through these kayaks and thier construction and uses. Arima was Zimmerlys predecessor at The Canadian Museum of Man(?) where both were in charge of the anthropology department and both with a keen interest in kayaks. Arctickayaks.com contains a wealth of information.
Some links.
Great old pics.
http://www.kayakers.nf.ca/sea_kayaking/labrador_kayak/labradorinuitkayakphotos.html

The following links will require some reading but in them you will find all manner of useful information on form and construction.You can read the entire document and not just the page that apperars in the link.
http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/PageView/63091/0013?id=6ad18253e40a7edb
http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/ItemRecord/09301?id=3acb84e1966edcb7
http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/mtq?id=39ab046718&display=33145+0085
http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/mtq?id=39ab046718&doc=53177
Enjoy and happy reading. I would be happy to give my experiences building one of these.

[Three Cedars]

Glad to have you back Arko ! What is your next boat going to be ?

Hope to see you at www.qajaqusa.org (http://www.qajaqusa.org)

Tom

[Arko]

Three Cedars, you have no idea how good it is to be back. I've been on an all expenses paid, whirlwind adventure in the land of the burning sand and right now I am freezing to death.
I am switching gears a little bit and have fallen in love with the Chamberlain Gunning dory, or at least this is my plan. Lately I have experienced the odd sensation of being sucked right out of my shoes and ending up in someplace that looks nothing like home( very disconcerting by the way ). This has happened three times in as many years and I not so sure that it isn't going to happen again. we'll see.
I check in over at Qajaq now and then just to see who's doing what. I don't get in on the discussions so much though. Still the best kayak site around.

[sr. jigaboni]

Boomkin Joe,

Some of the spots that have been repaired are getting pretty stiff, but the shellac seems to remain very flexible... at least as flexible as a painted canvas skin (don't use weldwood for these paper boats)

Also, the paper is SO easy to repair; the concept is the same as with plastic boats, but the fiber is paper and the resin is shellac. To patch a hole you simply peel away a nice "chamfered" edge and goop on some more paper. Or use duct tape for a while.

Did I mention I was a hillbilly?

Incidentally, laying on shellac real thick like I did seems to make it stay sorta rubbery, and the multiple layers make an interesting pattern.

As to stability, CC gives the option in his book to make the boat a tad more stable than a traditional book , ie. towards the wide and deep side, as well as an option to make a boat more apt (and easier) to roll.

And a short anecdote about stability: My first trip out in one of these, aside from a pool, resulted in my meeting a fellow on the lake with the snazziest kayak I had ever seen. It was a big bad ocean going, rudder having, compass sporting behemoth, and it was nice. We rafted up together and started to talk; five seconds in, he rolled right over into the drink. I thought he wanted to have a roll-off, and was in agony at the thought of demonstrating my panic roll, but he was really in the drink. He eventually had to clamber onto the foredeck of my (canvas!) kayak and into his boat. Then he casually explained how he had been in Santa Cruz Bay the day before...alone. His kayak was designed and touted as a super stable beginner style touring kayak, and he couldn't stay upright without moving, yet I was able to have him clamber all over my boat and never felt in fear of tipping. I have tremendous balance and core muscles from bmx bike riding, and off-road unicycling, but still...

I have never felt scared or uncomfortable about the stability of my kayak, built to the book "plans", but have always treated it like a loaded gun. It is the first kayak I ever paddled.

You should still build a frame, even if you never skin and paddle it; it will be so beautiful you may not want to cover it. Plus, there are a lot of fun cuts to make!

[Three Cedars]

Arko - Sure hope you don't a bad back from lifting that gorgeous East Arctic kayak around .... those back injuries can be a bummer and tend to keep you at home.

That Chamberlain Gunning Dory is a bewitching beauty - even on a flat page it almost seems alive. Do you 'spose it could be made as a SOF too... ;)

[ 01-07-2005, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Three Cedars ]

[Chris Stewart]

Originally posted by Three Cedars:
That Chamberlain Gunning Dory is a bewitching beauty - even on a flat page it almost seems alive. Do you 'spose it could be made as a SOF too?Of course. Not that different from a round bottom umiak.

Or the "Canvas Dinghy" of Greenland.
http://www.natmus.gl/en/maanhi/oktober/body_oktober.html

http://www.natmus.gl/images/a_knud_egede_1.jpg
http://www.natmus.gl/images/a_knud_egede_4.jpg

edited to add canvas dinghy photos
Chris Stewart

[ 01-07-2005, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Chris Stewart ]

[Arko]

http://www.rockisland.com/~kyak/upicts.html
This is from Skip Snaith over at KayakWay. Don't think I haven't thought of this too.

[hikingchrs]

I am building one following Chris' book this is my 2nd winter working on it...(I really don't spend much time on it 10 to 20 hours max) got the gunnels and deck beams in place good luck.
see you on the water.
Chris

[stevenj]

thanks for all the responses. thanks for the heads up on the Dr Z article, and all the other links!

regards
steve johnson
Richmond Va

[Boomkin Joe]

Jigaboni,

Thanks. You paper boat guys amaze me. :D
The encounter of the other type, that you describe, is one of the most dangerous situations a kayaker can face, though it is reportedly more fun with a seal!
I wonder how beamy is the standard Cunningham kayak.

Fascinating online paper boat 1878 cruise story (http://www.rtpnet.org/robroy/paperc/intro.html)

http://www.rtpnet.org/robroy/paperc/images/hatteras.jpg

[ 01-07-2005, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Boomkin Joe ]

[Chris Stewart]

Originally posted by Boomkin Joe:
I wonder how beamy is the standard Cunningham kayak.
There is no standard. The beam is the width of the builder's hips plus the width of two fists.

Chris Stewart

[seafox]

I have been reading wolfgang brinck and he advises building a 21 inch beam kayak unless your hips demand wider acorcing to the last post I'd need a 29 inch beam

the last time I tried my fibreglas kayak I put my car keys in my pockit and they caught under the deck and kept me from exiting very nearly resorted to brealing the kayak in half to get out just before resorting to that was finaly ably to get key from pockit while a friend held the kayak upright don't think I'll ever get in that kayak again unless I loose 50 pounds
jeff

[Boomkin Joe]

Jeffery, 21" seems reasonable (and fits me, incidentally), but so would 22", and so son.
I've seen 16" beams, and those weren't the smallest records!
The slimmest the boat, the fastest.
As Chris said, the average Greenlandic thumb rule is the waist plus two fists.

The stability of a boat varies with different factors such as the beam at floatation level, the rolling inertia, the deadrise, the chines, the hull volume, the seat height, the paddler's bracing capacity, etc.

The very dangerous incident you've described concerns the coaming width, which doesn't depend solely on the beam measurement.