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SMARTINSEN
01-20-2013, 09:34 AM
What is it?

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu133/marleedog/IMG_58461.jpg

The scale is not in inches, I did not have ready access to a metric rule, but the graduations on the smaller triangular part are approximately, maybe exactly, 2mm. And they line up with the larger part, so it does not seem to be any sort of Vernier ruler.

I have no clue. A friend showed this to me and he, as well as I, are stumped. He is a former Navy pilot, and he assures me that it has nothing to do with the flying part of aviation. Other than that?

I told him that I had some very knowledgeable friends, so do not let me down:D

Eddiebou
01-20-2013, 09:37 AM
Don't know......but I wish I had one.

Breakaway
01-20-2013, 09:46 AM
It's a pantographioc gronicle rule. Some parts are missing.

Kevin

S/V Laura Ellen
01-20-2013, 10:32 AM
I know what it is, but I cheated. I Googled the markings on the instrument and found this.
http://aylard.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/600/E496%20copy.jpg

It's a fart measuring instrument for Neutrons

Peach
01-20-2013, 10:33 AM
It looks like it could be used to measure the heights above the baseline when converting a lines drawing to an offset table, with the heights read off much like reading a vernier scale. Just a guess.

timo4352
01-20-2013, 11:11 AM
It's a fart measuring instrument for Neutrons

:D:d:D I gotta get me one of those! I could put it to good use.

Mrleft8
01-20-2013, 01:38 PM
Pica rule. For measuring and laying out type/graphics.

Peach
01-20-2013, 02:16 PM
Pica rule. For measuring and laying out type/graphics.

So why is one tapered?

Pics of pica rules on the web bear no resemblance.

Mrleft8
01-20-2013, 04:28 PM
So why is one tapered?

Pics of pica rules on the web bear no resemblance.

I didn't say I was right... I just made a guess..... Sheesh! Who do you think I am?...... Donn? :D

David G
01-20-2013, 04:45 PM
It's a pantographioc gronicle rule. Some parts are missing.

Kevin

I think we'll need a foto of the tool in use to fully understand your comments.:ycool:

Bob Cleek
01-20-2013, 07:02 PM
http://www.luckhardt.com/hr-lines4.jpg

Do ya see the little oblong box with all the horizontal lines at the top of the picture?

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/Misc%202009%20Aug/chapellelines-72.jpg

See... there's another one on the right hand side, half way down.


BTW, I haven't a clue what that tool is. Obviously, it's a rule of some sort, but what sort? It's driving me nuts! It's not some archaic tool, either. The box and its appearance indicate it's of relatively modern manufacture. (Actually, the box looks like those cheapos that all the Chinese machinist tools and such come in.)

Lewisboater
01-20-2013, 07:45 PM
Taper bore gauge? (at least the tapered one...maybe the other somehow)


http://www.measureshop.biz/en/measuring-instruments/straightedges-rules-and-small-gauges/small-gauges/taper-bore-gauges.html


http://www.measureshop.biz/images/products/ultra/Ultra_tisk-118-i4.jpg

SMARTINSEN
01-20-2013, 08:11 PM
Do ya see the little oblong box with all the horizontal lines at the top of the picture?

See... there's another one on the right hand side, half way down.

Yes, I had noticed the similarity, and that appears to be some kind of interpolation scale.





BTW, I haven't a clue what that tool is.

C'mon you guys, you are not being very helpful. Don't make me move this thread into the Bilge:D

Don Kurylko
01-21-2013, 01:39 AM
Something to do with making stringed musical instruments? Laying out fret spacing and angle of strings to bridge?

Canoeyawl
01-21-2013, 11:21 AM
It was expensive...
Some sort of a stage micrometer? it may have been built to work with an optical comparator

Rapelapente
01-28-2013, 11:52 AM
According to a friend of mine, it´s a Dixme rule.
Used in combination with a compass (the two pins type) to do a scale transfer from a design without any calculation.

Bob Cleek
01-28-2013, 02:04 PM
According to a friend of mine, it´s a Dixme scale.
Used in combination with a compass (the two pins type) to do a scale transfer from a design without any calculation.

Yep. I agree, I think... see my post #11 above. Those scales are in base 12 for feet and inches. The boxed set shown looks like it's in a base ten, so it would be for metric use. The advantage of the scales shown in the post above is that no matter what the degree of magnification of the the drawings might be, an accurate dimension can always be taken off the drawing when read against the scale that is enlarged at the same rate. I'm not sure how the tool shown would be used, though, if that is what it is.

Canoeyawl
01-29-2013, 11:05 AM
Civil engineering drawings are usually in feet and tenths of a foot.

Bob Cleek
01-29-2013, 02:31 PM
Civil engineering drawings are usually in feet and tenths of a foot.

Good point.

What I can't figure is why there isn't some identifying mark on the instruments that would permit one to contact the manufacturer and find out what the darn thing is.

Oysterhouse
01-29-2013, 08:25 PM
Ok--- its obviously a scale of some kind. I’m guessing it’s a specialty tool for setting up, calibrating, or tuning some type of machinery. Hence the angled and beveled scale on the triangular piece---probably sets against a cutter, chute or wedge.

But what is with the scale to the left of the “0” increment on the rectangular ruler?

What’s with the diagonal lines? Does the angle on the lines match the angle on the triangular ruler?

Any markings on the back of the scales? On the box?

Common saying at southern flea markets:
“What’s this here thing?”
“ I’ont know. But it’s a nice one.”

johnno
01-29-2013, 09:06 PM
Maybe those are screws rather than handles. Perhaps they attach to another tool which then uses them as gauges of some sort.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-29-2013, 09:38 PM
I thought the logo might be a micrometer with a 'K' inside it, but I have had no luck either.

Oysterhouse
01-29-2013, 11:30 PM
Question--
Does the height of the individual stations on the rectangular ruler (there are eleven lines, which make ten spaces) match the units of measurement on the triangular ruler(0-110)?

Wooden Boat Fittings
01-30-2013, 03:05 AM
What’s with the diagonal lines?

That part I can answer. It's a means of measuring very small increments accurately. You run a line across the scale at right angles to the instrument itself at any of the points of intersection of the diagonal and horizontal lines, according as to how many parts you want to measure. So, for instance, since the horizontal lines are a tenth of a unit apart and there are five diagonal lines per unit, you can accurately measure to 1/50 of a unit by moving a straightedge at right angles along the scale.

If the base unit were one centimetre, then you could measure to 1/50 cm without having to have a scale engraved in 1/50 cm segments. (I have a scale that's engraved to 1/100" -- much the same -- but although accurate it's very difficult to read because the markings are so close together.)

I suspect the triangular piece measures percentages of a main unit (centimetre? Smartinsen, is the actual distance between the main vertical lines on the rectangular scale 2cm, as the numbers imply?), and you use it by sliding it along the main scale to line up the marks accurately, instead of relying on the straightedge I mentioned above. This would allow you to measure up to 110% of a full unit in very small increments.

However, I stress that I'm only guessing about this last part.

When we used Imperial units on mechanical drawings here they were generally in feet, inches, halves, quarters, eighths, and so on -- I don't remember any tenths. But we've been (supposed to have been) metric here for some years, and it's only old-timers like me who use feet and inches these days. :(

Mike

Rob Hazard
01-30-2013, 07:57 AM
I have a question concerning the tapered piece:

Does the slope of its taper match the slope of the lines of the decimal scale left of the zero on the square scale?

And: Does the width of the tapered piece at dimension Zero equal one unit on the square scale?

Neither scale has its Zero at one end, so they can't be used to measure by butting one end against something. Are there any reference points on the backs of the rules?

Paul Scheuer
01-30-2013, 10:39 AM
Both pieces have the same Model Number. The little knobs suggest a drafting tool. Can anyone make out the Logo ?

Canoeyawl
01-30-2013, 11:12 AM
It is a mighty fancy drawing tool.
Beautiful in fact

3sheets
01-30-2013, 11:31 AM
http://www.automotiveillustrations.com/tutorials/tutorialimages/2-point-perspective-drawing-sample.jpg

Perspective drafting tool. It's used to create the grid at the top of this drawing... perhaps.

Figment
01-30-2013, 11:37 AM
Perspectives are not really "drafting". They use the grid as a guide and all, but they're never truly "scaled" drawings.

Also, any old straightedge will do for perspectives, no special devices warranted.

I'm going with #16.

Rob Hazard
01-30-2013, 11:38 AM
If it were for producing a perspective, wouldn't the graduations be logarithmic?

Rob Hazard
01-30-2013, 11:55 AM
Re: reply #16:
I just googled "Dixme" and got a bunch of entries seemingly related to taxation in France, "dixme" meaning "tenth". These rules do have decimal graduations. So are these really a means of scaling dimensions directly off a drawing? If so, I wanna see it work! And if they are to be used with a compass, why isn't there a spot for the compass in the box?

Oysterhouse
01-30-2013, 07:49 PM
That part I can answer. It's a means of measuring very small increments accurately. You run a line across the scale at right angles to the instrument itself at any of the points of intersection of the diagonal and horizontal lines, according as to how many parts you want to measure. So, for instance, since the horizontal lines are a tenth of a unit apart and there are five diagonal lines per unit, you can accurately measure to 1/50 of a unit by moving a straightedge at right angles along the scale.
Mike

OK-- I think that I understand the concept described here, but I would need to play with the tool a while before I really “get it”.

We still don’t have an explanation as to why one scale is triangular and beveled do we?
(Damit!! Who ran my scale through the table saw??):arg


Mike -Thanks for the response and explanation.

Oysterhouse
01-30-2013, 07:58 PM
Hey guys, is this a cartographers tool for orthographic projections?

Rob Hazard
01-31-2013, 06:59 AM
OK, a little crude measuring of the photo with paper and pencil has convinced me that the increase in width of the tapered rule over the distance of ten graduations is equal to one of the graduations on the little tenths & hundredths scale at the bottom of the square rule.

BTW: The model numbers are not identical. The tapered one is 495 while the square one is 496.

I'm still mystified by their use, though.

Rob Hazard
01-31-2013, 10:11 AM
Oops! I stand corrected. It looked for all the world like a 5 earlier this morning. I blame the weak coffee!

So, we still have no clue how this thingie is used, as far as I can tell. Given the level of technical insight usually displayed hereabouts, this cluelessness is vexing in the extreme!
Have we all been confounded by these simple aluminum bars?

SMARTINSEN
01-31-2013, 11:02 AM
I thought the logo might be a micrometer with a 'K' inside it, but I have had no luck either.

That is my thought, as well.


Question--
Does the height of the individual stations on the rectangular ruler (there are eleven lines, which make ten spaces) match the units of measurement on the triangular ruler(0-110)?

Yes.


OK, a little crude measuring of the photo with paper and pencil has convinced me that the increase in width of the tapered rule over the distance of ten graduations is equal to one of the graduations on the little tenths & hundredths scale at the bottom of the square rule.

.Yes, as above



Given the level of technical insight usually displayed hereabouts, this cluelessness is vexing in the extreme!
Have we all been confounded by these simple aluminum bars?

You can say that again!

It is stainless steel, btw.

C'mon guys--Norman, LJB5, are you out there? Where are all of the brains on this Forum? GaryE? I know that you are lurking:D

Canoeyawl
01-31-2013, 11:30 AM
http://www.bridgecitytools.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Adj-Fence.jpg

Paul Pless
01-31-2013, 11:49 AM
The tool does bear some resemblance to some machinist's parallels. I suspect that it is not a general layout tool, but rather specific to a certain branded process or machine.

Rob Hazard
01-31-2013, 11:55 AM
The handles suggest they were intended for use flat on a table. We all get that the taper is for precise measure. What would they use for a reference point or line? It needs to be something hard, rather than a drawn or printed line, or it could be easily measured visually. Are we missing something obvious?

Are they meant to be used together as a unit, or would you use first one, then the other?

Later for this. I gotta go carve a kayak seat.

Canoeyawl
01-31-2013, 12:10 PM
The tool does bear some resemblance to some machinist's parallels. I suspect that it is not a general layout tool, but rather specific to a certain branded process or machine.

A vernier calibrated parrallel for set up or layout work perhaps. I could see it perhaps being used on a (metal) shaper or planer.

Bob Cleek
01-31-2013, 01:26 PM
It's interesting that the slanted edge of the triangular piece is beveled, while none of the other edges of the pieces are. The bevel, however, is not on the graduated ("ruled") edge of the triangular piece, so the bevel edge is not intended for measuring, but only for use as a drawing straight edge. The handles on the pieces clearly indicate that they are intended to be moved about on a flat surface, such as a drafting table. They really do appear to be manual drafting related tools for that reason. (CAD drafting would be making such tools obsolete these days.) The bevel would indicate that the beveled edge is the edge along which one would run their drawing instrument. If the bevel is undercut, it would indicate the age of the instrument. Back in the days when India ink drafting pens were used, the drawing straight edges were undercut to prevent the ink from running under the edge and ruining the line. When Rapidograph fountain pens and later felt tipped pens became common, the old India ink pens were quickly abandoned and the undercut beveled drawing edges went along with them.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcnRQy2U-kRYW-Z907eFjnivaEN08sO_hpMgGsuN0vjAo9UwSV

So, I'd put the manufacture date somewhere after the late '60's.

The unbeveled edges would suggest they were intended to be run up against another unbeveled edge and perhaps moved one way and the other, "slide rule fashion." The purpose of the constant slope of the beveled edge remains a mystery to me, though.

As far as drafting tools go, these don't appear to be particularly high quality or of old age. I'd guess they aren't older than the late 1960's. I've dealt with a lot of old drafting instruments over the years. The old stuff is always "presentation cased" in relatively fine boxing, often leather covered, or at least made to appear so, and velvet lined.

http://o2.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/PATCH/resize/600x450/http://hss-prod.hss.aol.com/hss/storage/patch/a2c1997f2a43f70d683dbad2e68ae01b

The case in this instance appears to be one of those now-ubiquitous white wooden ones that all sorts of second-quality Asian manufactured tools are packaged in.

http://www.desmoines-classifieds.com/Polk-County-/Kids-Stuff-/Toys-/Micrometer-set-0001-outside-c-type-mitutoyo-style-0-6-adimage.jpg

What is curious, though, is that the case and the finish on the instruments clearly demonstrates that it was not a "top quality" item (e.g. Keuffel and Esser, Browne and Sharp, etc.). Second quality Asian manufactured "precision" tools would logically only be rather common instruments for which there was a broad demand, and, it would follow, which were readily identifiable. There'd be no "second rate" market for rare or highly specialized instruments, so the Asian lower price point manufacturers wouldn't be turning that out.

And the mystery continues!

Canoeyawl
01-31-2013, 02:30 PM
Probably for a scribe. Precision layout work is not done much anymore, but it was once a specialized trade.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4143/4758373733_cfb5b15359.jpg

Mrleft8
01-31-2013, 03:33 PM
AHA! It's a reverse speculatometer!

S B
02-01-2013, 12:22 AM
Perspectives are not really "drafting". They use the grid as a guide and all, but they're never truly "scaled" drawings.

Also, any old straightedge will do for perspectives, no special devices warranted.

I'm going with #16.

They can be, if properly done, and measurements taken from them. Take my word for it.