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baybuilt
10-04-2001, 09:41 AM
I am considering building a Norwegian Pram and have been reading over the WB Issue 49. Does anyone know if Arne Emil Christensen or Mark Swanson are still around and available to contact about this building technique? Or are there any other boat builders with experience in building by eye?
thanks!

toj
10-04-2001, 11:53 AM
You might check with Simon Watts. He used to teach a class at Arques building the Norwegian Pram and has published at least one book about building them. I know the NMMA bookstore at San Franciso Maritime used to carry the book.

Some URLs
http://www.arqueschl.org/classes/pram.htm
http://www.maritime.org/maristore.htm

and Simon's email addy: simonaw@sirius.com

Thad
10-04-2001, 01:31 PM
Mark is making patterns for Lie-Nielsen. I have built a number of prams.

rbgarr
10-04-2001, 01:31 PM
Mark Swanson was the pattern maker for Lie Nielsen Toolworks in Maine last I heard. They advertise in WB if you need their number/address.

baybuilt
10-04-2001, 02:12 PM
Thanks for the leads. I will follow them. Thad, what size prams did you build and were you following plans and if so which ones? I looked on your web pages but didn't see the prams.

baybuilt
10-04-2001, 02:18 PM
toj,
The email address you listed here for Simon Watts is bouncing my inquiry. Do you have any address, snail or otherwise, for him?
thanks

Thad
10-04-2001, 07:50 PM
There is a pram picture in a piece called Thoughts on Traditional Construction that will pop up with a few on the hot lines on the home page. Always by eye. I started with Arne Emil's description in WoodenBoat and built a boat. When I first put it in and rowed around the harbor, I stopped to talk to a Norwegian on his boat. He kept saying, "I never saw one smaller" "That's the smallest one I ever saw", things like that, while we talked. Later I talked to Mark Swanson and he said that was the way Arne Emil's design was drawn. By that time I had built a couple of others; giving them the shape I want while still keeping the great look and function of the praam. I guess I have built 4, and I still think they are great boats. I try to sell them to people when it seems appropriate but it hasn't come to anything lately.

toj
10-04-2001, 10:07 PM
hm. not sure what's wrong with Simon's address. An alternate addy is simonafwatts@yahoo.com

I'll check with him to get his postal address if you'd care to mail him the old fashioned way.

baybuilt
10-05-2001, 10:54 AM
Thad,
That is a beautiful little pram on your "Thoughts on Traditional Construction" page. I hope mine will look as good. Did you follow the Arendalspram construction method: garboards tucked under the the bottom plank, with bottom plank beveled to give deadrise, or the Holmsbupram method: garboards have no deadrise and are above the bottom plank? My inclination it to lean in the direction of the Holmsbupram as it has a cruder, more primitive look, but that is just my judgement from examining the pictures from the WB article.


[This message has been edited by baybuilt (edited 10-05-2001).]

Thad
10-05-2001, 12:49 PM
I've done it both ways, but that one is Holmsbrupram built.

abe
10-08-2001, 03:13 PM
I have an 11 foot Norwegian pram in the shop that was built at WoodenBoat School with the "hand and eye" of an experienced boat builder and instructor.

The WB #49 story provided helpful information on techniques. The bevel board and a few notes are about all you need for reference.

I prefer the Holmsbrupram method also, but would increase the length to 12 feet or so next time.

Baybuilt, Send an e-mail and I will return a scanned photo, or better yet, if you are in the New England area stop by.

Lars Stalegard
10-08-2001, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by baybuilt:
I am considering building a Norwegian Pram and have been reading over the WB Issue 49. Does anyone know if Arne Emil Christensen or Mark Swanson are still around and available to contact about this building technique? Or are there any other boat builders with experience in building by eye?
thanks!

Arne Emil Christensen is still around, head of the viking ship museum in Oslo, Vikingskipshallen.

I myself have built at least 15 prams from 9' to 14' . At my workshop about 100 km north of Oslo, I build different types of traditional Norwegian lapstrake boats up to 20'. No boats are built from drawings.

Best regards

Thad
10-08-2001, 08:41 PM
Lars, It is very good to hear that you are building praams and other boats there in Norway! Thank you and cheers!

Mike Field
10-09-2001, 02:51 AM
I was delighted to see Thad spell "praam" with a double-A, as I've always understood that was the correct spelling. (For me, a "pram" is just a thing you wheel babies around in.) Thanks, Thad.

But... I was also interested to see that Lars spelt the word with a single-A.

So for Lars or any other Norwegian speakers, is the spelling now optional?

baybuilt
10-09-2001, 11:32 AM
Abe - Why would you increase the length to 12 feet? I would like to see a picture of your pram. Can you post here? If not I'll try to stop by in the near future.
Lars - Do you have any pictures available that you could post. Are the shorter length boats more difficult to build and do they have sailing rigs?
thanks to all

Lars Stalegard
10-09-2001, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by baybuilt:
Abe - Why would you increase the length to 12 feet? I would like to see a picture of your pram. Can you post here? If not I'll try to stop by in the near future.
Lars - Do you have any pictures available that you could post. Are the shorter length boats more difficult to build and do they have sailing rigs?
thanks to all

Mike, I've never heard about anyone spelling pram with a double A, not here in Norway anyway, but I'll check with a Dutch friend of mine. Praam definately sounds Dutch.

Baybuilt, I have some photos I could E-mail you, but what about your address?

In Denmark they have a tradition in using prams with sail, and they call them "Norske Pram" - Norwegian pram.
In Sweden a similar boat type, called eka, is used with sail, but they are often 14-15'.

In my opinion a pram should be at least 12' to be useful as a boat and not just a dinghy, but shorter boats are not more difficult to build.

baybuilt
10-09-2001, 02:10 PM
I didn't realize my email was not part of my profile, and I have corrected that. I would like to see any pictures of prams others have built.
thanks

abe
10-09-2001, 03:20 PM
baybuilt, I e-mailed photo of the 11 foot pram. I am too thrifty(cheap) to send 20 bucks to photopoint in order to post pictures here. No one has come up with a good alternative to my knowledge.

The 12 foot length will allow a smaller bow transom, will provide a bit more displacement to carry two adults and as Lars suggests, it is now "useful as a boat".

Lars, I saw some photo slides last week taken by a student during his one year training at a boat building school in Norway.
Can't remember the name of the school, but do remember that they built 15' to 50' traditional craft, no drawings,100% spruce for planking and spruce knees for stems out of a local forest. They also distilled pine tar and wove pure hemp lines. Wish I was there!!

Can you tell us a bit more about your shop??

Lars Stalegard
10-09-2001, 03:58 PM
Abe, the name of the school you're writing about is Fosen folkehøgskole (folk high school), you can check them at www.fosen.fhs.no (http://www.fosen.fhs.no) . I have been both student and teacher at the school, and know most of the students from 1993 and forward. It is not unlikely that I know the guy you are referring to, what's his name?

At my workshop I build different types of traditional lapstrake boats from 10' to 20'.
Since I live near some big lakes, Mjøsa, Randsfjorden and Tyrifjorden, a bit north of Oslo I focus on rowing boats with roots in these areas. I build about 10-15 boats during winter season, and I have an apprentice (former student at fosen). I have some photos that can be E-mailed, just let me know.

baybuilt
10-10-2001, 02:56 PM
Abe - I received your photo.Thanks. A very pretty little boat. Is it 12'? Is yours made with cedar planking?
I would like to see if spruce is available for planking here in the US and how it compares to cedar in both price and ease of working with it. Any thoughts on that?

Lars - please email me photos - my email is now posted here.

In studying the two types of prams discussed by Arne Emil Christensen in WB#49 it appears to me that the Holmsbupram is a narrower boat than the Arendalspram, and it is shown with a mast step. Could either of these boats accomodate a sailing rigs, or is the Holmsbupram more suitable?

Hugh Paterson
10-10-2001, 04:06 PM
The Gal Gael In Glasgow (A community training scheme), occasionally build similar prams. Trainees build them prior to being let loose on their bigger projects, the boats are built by eye. I will check and see if they have any photos on file of some of the completed boats.

Shuggie.

abe
10-11-2001, 12:27 PM
Baybuilt, the pram is 11 feet as previously stated, planks are 1/2" northern New England white cedar.

I am not aware of local spruce (pisser wood) being used for planking, and if it was I would think that it would be difficult to work with. Aired dried spruce always seems to contain too much moisture and is not as workable as cedar. This may not apply to "spruce" forested in other areas.

Local dory builders used northern white pine for years but the durability of that species available today is questionable.

On the question of accommodating a sail rig, if my memory is correct, Thad outfitted a sailing rig on one of his prams a few years ago. Maybe he can help here.


Lars, thanks for the web link. That is the school and your e-mail confirms that the student who told us about Norwegian boat building was in fact your student. Small world and getting smaller!!!

Thaddeus J. Van Gilder
11-02-2001, 01:39 PM
I have built two clinker prams, one 10 feet, and one 8 feet, and both had (have) sailing rigs. one ballanced lug, and one sprit.

Kermit
11-14-2001, 03:50 PM
Jay Smith
Anacortes, WA, USA

johnh94927
11-22-2001, 03:55 AM
Speaking of things Danish, thought I'd put this here to duck The Lord-high Sensor:
http://www.sonic.net/~johnh/pub/thumb.gif
This is the stern view of the figurehead for my praam, Dragonlady, by the way.


[This message has been edited by johnh94927 (edited 11-22-2001).]

jhpayne
01-16-2017, 10:47 PM
You might check with Simon Watts. He used to teach a class at Arques building the Norwegian Pram and has published at least one book about building them. I know the NMMA bookstore at San Franciso Maritime used to carry the book.

Some URLs
http://www.arqueschl.org/classes/pram.htm
http://www.maritime.org/maristore.htm

and Simon's email addy: simonaw@sirius.com

I've spent a lot of time on Simon's new site (hope this link works (http://www.simonwattsfurniture.com)). He's got the Pram designs on the homepage, if that's helpful.

Paul Schweiss
01-16-2017, 11:23 PM
I have built many Norwegian prams, færing, etc, by eye, in the old way. Tell me what you need to know.

SMARTINSEN
01-17-2017, 07:26 AM
I've spent a lot of time on Simon's new site (hope this link works (http://www.simonwattsfurniture.com)). He's got the Pram designs on the homepage, if that's helpful.
It does not, I get a 403 forbidden message.

pcford
01-17-2017, 06:50 PM
paul schweiss or jay smith are both very familiar with Scandanavian techniques. Near Anacortes WA. Paul Schweiss is occasionally on this forum. Jay Smith replaced the the garboards on my Oselvar...I can dig up contact info if needed.

NickW
01-18-2017, 03:00 PM
I've spent a lot of time on Simon's new site (hope this link works (http://www.simonwattsfurniture.com)). He's got the Pram designs on the homepage, if that's helpful.


Try this link http://theartofarthurwatts.org/about-this-site.html

Nick

StevenBauer
01-18-2017, 03:34 PM
Just in case some haven't noticed, this is a 16 year old thread. Love those prams, though.


Steven