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Tom Montgomery
12-26-2012, 05:59 PM
Very interesting:


Outrage after NY paper publishes names of gun permit holders (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57560892/outrage-after-ny-paper-publishes-names-of-gun-permit-holders/)


What do you think? Should you have access to this type of information regarding gun ownership in your community?

McMike
12-26-2012, 06:15 PM
For hand guns and semi autos if they don't get banned. For all other classes . . . no.

skuthorp
12-26-2012, 06:21 PM
Interesting results so far for a poll.

Soundbounder
12-26-2012, 06:38 PM
Should you have access to this type of information regarding gun ownership in your community?

I'm not sure that is the issue here.
If I understand this correctly, it already is public information that is accessible, and always has been. One could go to the county-hall-of-records on Mamaroneck Avenue in White Plains and view the same data. Of course, the vast majority of people are not going to do this, but the information is accessible, regardless of whether a newspaper publishes it.

Ian McColgin
12-26-2012, 06:52 PM
What's to hide? It's public information, just as automobile ownership is.

BrianW
12-26-2012, 07:04 PM
I'm enjoying the backlash. People are posting Google map info for the publisher and reporters. I hope criminals now avoid the listed homes, and concentrate on the rest. That would be ironic.

Tom Montgomery
12-26-2012, 07:10 PM
What's to hide? It's public information, just as automobile ownership is.
If that is so, what argument would those voting "no" make to support their position?

Tom Montgomery
12-26-2012, 07:12 PM
I hope criminals now avoid the listed homes, and concentrate on the rest.
Isn't that nice?

By the way, you give the common criminal waaay too much credit. Most of them are really stupid.

John Smith
12-26-2012, 07:14 PM
I'm enjoying the backlash. People are posting Google map info for the publisher and reporters. I hope criminals now avoid the listed homes, and concentrate on the rest. That would be ironic.

More likely the criminals will rob the place FOR THE GUNS when the owner is not at home.

I've not seen any studies, but I suspect very few "bad guys" rob residences when someone is at home.

Tom Montgomery
12-26-2012, 07:16 PM
You must be kidding. Who would want to steal firearms?

Bob Adams
12-26-2012, 07:18 PM
Word that mine was an armed house spread rather quickly...no more trouble including property crimes in a long time. The punks don't know I wouldn't shoot them over stolen goods...and that's OK.

elf
12-26-2012, 07:18 PM
I just want to know which houses to avoid, thank you. Guns are for killing and I'm not ready to die yet.

Soundbounder
12-26-2012, 07:20 PM
I'm enjoying the backlash. I hope criminals now avoid the listed homes, and concentrate on the rest. You might want to keep the champagne on ice for a long while. The map only lists pistol permits....that's why my brother is not listed. The NYC police officers I know are not listed either

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-26-2012, 07:20 PM
What's to hide? It's public information, just as automobile ownership is.

Agreed.

John Smith
12-26-2012, 07:22 PM
You must be kidding. Who would want to steal firearms?

Someone who wants them and can't pass the background check, or can't afford to buy them. They are just as likely a target for theft as other items of value.

Bob Adams
12-26-2012, 07:23 PM
I just want to know which houses to avoid, thank you. Guns are for killing and I'm not ready to die yet.

Yeah Emily...you are in such great danger. You have most likely been closer to firearms in houses you have visited than you would believe.

David W Pratt
12-26-2012, 07:24 PM
Should my neighbors know about me?

htom
12-26-2012, 07:28 PM
Supposedly some undercover local LEO and FBI, and a half-dozen or so domestically abused victims in hiding, were "outed". This is a list for goblins of where to dress like a SWAT team and arrive in force, and where you don't need to. Stay tuned.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-26-2012, 07:32 PM
I just want to know which houses to avoid, thank you. Guns are for killing and I'm not ready to die yet.

My sentiments exactly.;)

botebum
12-26-2012, 07:34 PM
I'm not going to vote on yhe poll because the poll in no way addresses the case in point.

Do you have a right to access the info?- Sure
Do you have any justifiable need to have it?- Probably not
Should the paper have published the list?- No. It's sensationalism at best and villification at worst.
Does the list mean anything of value to anyone?- Sure,if you really want to know who the law abiding gun owners are in your neighborhood.But why do you want to know that? I'd rather know who the felons are in my neighborhood are. That's publicly available as well and a hell of a lot more useful if you feel the need to watch over your shoulder.

Doug

McMike
12-26-2012, 07:39 PM
I'm enjoying the backlash. People are posting Google map info for the publisher and reporters. I hope criminals now avoid the listed homes, and concentrate on the rest. That would be ironic.

Nice.

botebum
12-26-2012, 07:47 PM
Nice.
What's the difference? If it's public info then it must be ok to make it public.

Doug

Soundbounder
12-26-2012, 07:47 PM
Supposedly some undercover local LEO and FBI, and a half-dozen or so domestically abused victims in hiding, were "outed".Sorry, but that sounds like some half-baked internet rumor. An undercover LEO/FBI would not be using his real name, or registering a pistol at the county office building.

Willin'
12-26-2012, 08:25 PM
Not yes, hell yes. Like pedophiles, the gun nutter's potential to do vast harm if not monitored is too huge to not make their neighbors aware.

Funny, I never felt this way previously, but the pro gun response to yet another tragedy has pushed me to the extreme.

Paul Pless
12-26-2012, 08:43 PM
Why do I need the government to make this information available? You guys don't know your neighbors?

Captain Intrepid
12-26-2012, 08:55 PM
Supposedly some undercover local LEO and FBI, and a half-dozen or so domestically abused victims in hiding, were "outed". This is a list for goblins of where to dress like a SWAT team and arrive in force, and where you don't need to. Stay tuned.

How could they be outed when the information was already public knowledge?

That's like telling someone's parents they're gay, when their facebook profile publically states they're gay. It's not outing them.

Flying Orca
12-26-2012, 10:09 PM
Seems to me that the cops should have that info, but the general public should not. Of course I don't think there's any need for widespread ownership of of handguns and semi-autos in the first place...

Peach
12-26-2012, 10:25 PM
I just want to know which houses to avoid, thank you. Guns are for killing and I'm not ready to die yet.

Avoiding all those addresses is likely to provide little in the way of added safety and security. The purchase permits, registrations, and ownership licenses apply only to handguns. Hunting rifles and shotguns require no permits or licenses. I suspect many of the other addresses also have a firearm in the house, just not a handgun.

Breakaway
12-26-2012, 10:32 PM
Do you have a right to access the info?- Sure
Do you have any justifiable need to have it?- Probably not
Should the paper have published the list?- No. It's sensationalism at best and villification at worst.
Does the list mean anything of value to anyone?- Sure,if you really want to know who the law abiding gun owners are in your neighborhood.But why do you want to know that? I'd rather know who the felons are in my neighborhood are. That's publicly available as well and a hell of a lot more useful if you feel the need to watch over your shoulder.

Well said, Doug.

I voted yes, because it is public info. But really, I would prefer people I didn't know, know as little about me as possible. Not because I have anything to hide--the deer mounts in my den, and the hay bales with targets on them in my yard. give anyone who comes by a pretty good idea that there are firearms in my house--but there are nuts out there, of every sort.

kevin

L.W. Baxter
12-26-2012, 10:40 PM
I'm not going to answer because the poll is public, and I don't want you to know what I think about this issue.

skuthorp
12-26-2012, 10:52 PM
The ones you need to know whether they have guns or not won't be on the register.

Dave Wright
12-26-2012, 11:06 PM
I'm not going to vote on yhe poll because the poll in no way addresses the case in point.

Do you have a right to access the info?- Sure
Do you have any justifiable need to have it?- Probably not
Should the paper have published the list?- No. It's sensationalism at best and villification at worst.
Does the list mean anything of value to anyone?- Sure,if you really want to know who the law abiding gun owners are in your neighborhood.But why do you want to know that? I'd rather know who the felons are in my neighborhood are. That's publicly available as well and a hell of a lot more useful if you feel the need to watch over your shoulder.

Doug

Good response.

I don't much care, but I'd prefer a log to be kept of who asks about who. I seem to remember problems in at least one state when vehicle owners personal info was quickly available based on a phone in submittal of the vehicle license plate. Cut a guy off and flip him the bird and he's waiting for you on your porch the next day. This is good or bad depending on you point of view.
,

elf
12-26-2012, 11:11 PM
It's really sad to thing that people can get so enraged by being cut off at a corner. chill, guys. Nobody gives a s*it about you and your little grudges. It's all in your head and every little grudge is making you sicker.

Life's too short to hunt down some poor sucker whose wife is delivering and needs him at her side.

You just never know why someone cuts you off, and since that's the case, give a person a break and assume the best.

Dave Wright
12-26-2012, 11:16 PM
[QUOTE=elf;3640510]It's really sad to thing that people can get so enraged by being cut off at a corner. ...QUOTE]

Agree completely. I've always felt that way. But am I wrong in sensing that you may have completely misunderstood me and my post????

Chip-skiff
12-26-2012, 11:17 PM
Good to know if you have neighbors with private arsenals of murder weapons. We had a gun-psycho next door for a while— his favorite pastime was shooting ground squirrels with a sniper rifle. I asked him to stop, and he said it was no problem: he never missed a shot(!)

He threatened our house-sitter, then threatened me. Finally had to call the deputies after he threatened my wife. He was such a rabid character, very taken up with his "rights," that I expected him to take a shot at me from hiding, but he left not long after.

They have lists of sex offenders. Maybe it's time to out the gun crazies.

elf
12-26-2012, 11:34 PM
It's really sad to thing that people can get so enraged by being cut off at a corner. ...

Agree completely. I've always felt that way. But am I wrong in sensing that you may have completely misunderstood me and my post????
Hmm. I don't think so, but maybe...

You did say
Cut a guy off and flip him the bird and he's waiting for you on your porch the next day.

Presumably you were implying with some vengeful behavior in mind?

Dave Wright
12-26-2012, 11:57 PM
Hmm. I don't think so, but maybe...

You did say

Presumably you were implying with some vengeful behavior in mind?

I try to drive carefully and courteously. I have had people become enraged at me while driving. I forget it quickly, apparently some folks don't, and that's always a potential concern. And there have been some occasions (few) where I've flipped someone off while driving. I know that's wrong. I forget that quickly too. Vengeance doesn't enter my mind, apparently that's not always true for others.

BrianW
12-27-2012, 12:54 AM
Here's a question...

Do you think this action is going to make it easier to pass a national gun registration law in the future, or will current legal gun owners see this, and worry about being 'exposed' in the future?

seanz
12-27-2012, 01:00 AM
Here's a question...

Do you think this action is going to make it easier to pass a national gun registration law in the future, or will current legal gun owners see this, and worry about being 'exposed' in the future?


Good question. The obvious answer is.....it'll make it harder to pass a national gun registration law as gun owners will be worried about privacy.

If people want progress on gun laws they need the cooperation of law abiding gun owners.....and that article demonstrates only how to alienate people.

Not a good move.

Peach
12-27-2012, 01:29 AM
The whole premise of outing law-abiding gun owners to public scrutiny and possible ridicule serves only to alienate those who might lend a supportive voice to reasonable reform. Pissing off those who have gone to the effort to legally secure all the required permits and licenses is not an intelligent move by the anti-gun faction. The legal and licensed gun owners are an ally in this effort, and should be recruited rather than ridiculed.

seanz
12-27-2012, 01:33 AM
the anti-gun faction.

Does the story really come from the "anti-gun faction" or is it a classic bit of sensationalist journalism?

BrianW
12-27-2012, 01:47 AM
Well, it seems to resonate positively with the "anti-gun faction". At least on this thread. ;)

seanz
12-27-2012, 01:57 AM
Well, it seems to resonate positively with the "anti-gun faction". At least on this thread. ;)

Let's not use negative labels. How about "pro-peace" debating the "gun-lovers"?



:)

BrianW
12-27-2012, 02:07 AM
Let's not use negative labels. How about "pro-peace" debating the "gun-lovers"?



:)

Oh you are the sneaky one. :D

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 03:31 AM
Good to know if you have neighbors with private arsenals of murder weapons

Actually, all this tells you is whether the person has a handgun permit. It doesn't list the type, or how many:

http://www.lohud.com/interactive/article/20121223/NEWS01/121221011


http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012312230056&nclick_check=1

Meli
12-27-2012, 04:02 AM
it's general invasion of privacy.
while you can legally buy a weapon, no one has the right to know what you have in your home.
what next ? Public availability of knowledge of who has sex toys.:rolleyes:

Meli
12-27-2012, 04:19 AM
Well, it seems to resonate positively with the "anti-gun faction". At least on this thread. ;)
really?
A few of us lefties actually believe in civil liberty.Privacy etc.
Quite a separate issue that overrides just about everything despite what the right wing nut bags would say about socialists and stalinist states.

seanz
12-27-2012, 04:20 AM
it's general invasion of privacy.
while you can legally buy a weapon, no one has the right to know what you have in your home.
what next ? Public availability of knowledge of who has sex toys.:rolleyes:

First, that would require permitting and registration........

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 04:26 AM
Does the story really come from the "anti-gun faction" or is it a classic bit of sensationalist journalism?

I question the relevance of the story to anything (especially Newtown) but when the usual suspects start ganging up on the press, I side with the press. They have a right to print public information.

Meli
12-27-2012, 04:32 AM
no seanz, legal gun ownership without registration is a fact in the USA.
while ownership is legal, no one has the right to access information on a private individuals possessions, whether theybe guns, lawn mowers or sex toys.
we have a sex offenders register, these people have committed a crime.
legal gun owners have not,. Simple as that.

I have explosive materials in my workshop. Turps or a gun. While its inert its no ones business except the owners.
not a good track togo down

seanz
12-27-2012, 04:34 AM
I question the relevance of the story to anything (especially Newtown) but when the usual suspects start ganging up on the press, I side with the press. They have a right to print public information.

They do, but they had to jump through a few hoops to get the information, it's not really publicly 'public' ......so what was their motivation? Did they think the story would help inform the debate, heal wounds? Or, were they just sensationalizing to generate more traffic/sell more copies?

seanz
12-27-2012, 04:35 AM
no seanz, legal gun ownership without registration is a fact in the USA.
while ownership is legal, no one has the right to access information on a private individuals possessions, whether theybe guns, lawn mowers or sex toys.
we have a sex offenders register, these people have committed a crime.
legal gun owners have not,. Simple as that.


You might want to have a bit of a glance at the New York State hand-gun laws. Fascinating reading I'm sure.


Hang on, I'll see if I can find a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York

Meli
12-27-2012, 04:42 AM
It is irrelevant, what ever the link.
invasion of privacy is the biggest threat to a free society.
gun owners are mostly legally in possession.
we have legal gun owners here and in NZ, would you accept such availability of information here?
this sort of thing is the thin end of the wedge in protection of your and my privacy.
s you are probably aware, I'm totally in favour of strick gun control, but recognize a red herring or sneaky attempt to invade my privacy when i see one.

seanz
12-27-2012, 04:48 AM
OK, be wrong then, just as long as you're happy.

:D

Meli
12-27-2012, 04:55 AM
:rolleyes::p:d
You know I'm right

seanz
12-27-2012, 05:05 AM
The privacy thing? yep. The gun-law thing? nup. ;)

I'm not impressed by the media's behaviour at all after the Newtown massacre......they rang* the shooter's father fer-crying-out-loud.....talk about an invasion of privacy.



*He didn't answer the phone.

Curtism
12-27-2012, 05:28 AM
Florida has some of the most relaxed firearm regulations in the country, and I certainly disagree with most of the laws that have passed over the last few years that brought us to this status. However, in the past year or so they passed legislation that restricts public access to lists of legal firearms permit holders and, for many of the reasons Peach touched on here, I completely agree with those aspects of the new law.


The whole premise of outing law-abiding gun owners to public scrutiny and possible ridicule serves only to alienate those who might lend a supportive voice to reasonable reform. Pissing off those who have gone to the effort to legally secure all the required permits and licenses is not an intelligent move by the anti-gun faction. The legal and licensed gun owners are an ally in this effort, and should be recruited rather than ridiculed.

Exactly, if the published lists contained information on people who possessed firearms illegally, that's a different story. But to expose those who went through the proper channels in this manner, particularly right now, does nothing to advance the conversations we should be having in regards to gun regulations.

Printing this list was a stupid, poorly thought out move on the papers part.

Meli
12-27-2012, 05:31 AM
Exactly

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 05:36 AM
......so what was their motivation? Did they think the story would help inform the debate, heal wounds? Or, were they just sensationalizing to generate more traffic/sell more copies?

As I already stated, I question the relevancy of the story and map. But now you are asking me to play pop psychologist and tell you what individuals on the Gannet Corporation and Journal News boards are thinking. :confused:

Sorry, but I can't think of a more useless way to spend the morning. Any chance we can keep the discussion a little more grounded?

botebum
12-27-2012, 06:06 AM
First, that would require permitting and registration........
Can't you just hear the women chant- "When they pry my vibrator from my cold dead hand!"
Too funny!

Doug

Meli
12-27-2012, 06:31 AM
Or
when I have to clothe Dolly :d

McMike
12-27-2012, 06:46 AM
The ones you need to know whether they have guns or not won't be on the register.

That's even better because gun nuts can't resist showing off their toys or threatening by lifting their shirt. It'll be easier to report that they own an unregistered weapon and send their butt to jail.

Bob Adams
12-27-2012, 07:01 AM
That's even better because gun nuts can't resist showing off their toys or threatening by lifting their shirt. It'll be easier to report that they own an unregistered weapon and send their butt to jail.

Could I have a clairification here, are all us gun owners stereotyped in your mind to be "gun nuts"?

botebum
12-27-2012, 07:12 AM
Could I have a clairification here, are all us gun owners stereotyped in your mind to be "gun nuts"?
Too many here would answer that with a very loud "YES!"

Doug

Bob Adams
12-27-2012, 08:41 AM
Too many here would answer that with a very loud "YES!"

Doug

That's a shame. I knew they were opinionated, I never thought they were delusional.

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 11:43 AM
Numerous right wing websites are posting the phone numbers and addresses of employees of the Journal News and Gannett.
However, the phone number listed for the reporter is incorrect.

Instead a family in Queens, completely unrelated to this story has been receiving threatening and racist calls at all hours of the day.

Merry Christmas :p

seanz
12-27-2012, 03:07 PM
As I already stated, I question the relevancy of the story and map. But now you are asking me to play pop psychologist and tell you what individuals on the Gannet Corporation and Journal News boards are thinking. :confused:

Sorry, but I can't think of a more useless way to spend the morning. Any chance we can keep the discussion a little more grounded?

An aspirational bilge-rat. How nice.

pefjr
12-27-2012, 03:21 PM
What's to hide? It's public information, just as automobile ownership is.exactly

seanz
12-27-2012, 04:05 PM
exactly

You're just saying that because you prefer open-carry.......

BrianW
12-27-2012, 04:17 PM
Numerous right wing websites are posting the phone numbers and addresses of employees of the Journal News and Gannett.
However, the phone number listed for the reporter is incorrect.

Instead a family in Queens, completely unrelated to this story has been receiving threatening and racist calls at all hours of the day.

Merry Christmas :p

I've read about similar mistakes with the list the newspaper published.

As they (the newspaper) started it, the blame falls on their shoulders.

Captain Intrepid
12-27-2012, 04:36 PM
Would the blame not fall upon the governmental agency that provided the information for any errors in the information supplied, the newspaper on any errors in transcription, and the gun nuts for the errors in the information they posted? Anything else is a cop out.

McMike
12-27-2012, 04:45 PM
Could I have a clairification here, are all us gun owners stereotyped in your mind to be "gun nuts"?

Nope, not nearly all . . . But I would say too many gun owners are, in my personal experience. I should think that in places like where Htom and Bdub lives there is a much different culture which is why they don't understand my contempt for the gun culture in general. Unfortunately for them, most people don't live where they do and also don't treat guns with the respect they require, they instead treat them like toys.

I can see why you own guns and find you to be reasonable about the from my perspective but again, you are not most people.

BrianW
12-27-2012, 05:00 PM
Would the blame not fall upon the governmental agency that provided the information for any errors in the information supplied, the newspaper on any errors in transcription, and the gun nuts for the errors in the information they posted? Anything else is a cop out.

Nope. There was no problem, until the newspaper got stupid. They're to blame.

Captain Intrepid
12-27-2012, 05:04 PM
I guess I'm just a strong proponent for individual responsibility.

Bob Adams
12-27-2012, 05:06 PM
Nope, not nearly all . . . But I would say too many gun owners are, in my personal experience. I should think that in places like where Htom and Bdub lives there is a much different culture which is why they don't understand my contempt for the gun culture in general. Unfortunately for them, most people don't live where they do and also don't treat guns with the respect they require, they instead treat them like toys.

I can see why you own guns and find you to be reasonable about the from my perspective but again, you are not most people.

But, I seem to be typical of most shooters I know, and that's quite a few. To me, that's most people.

BrianW
12-27-2012, 05:15 PM
I guess I'm just a strong proponent for individual responsibility.

Databases are notoriously hard to keep up to date. If someone starts a ****storm of publishing them online, they take the blame.

BrianW
12-27-2012, 05:16 PM
But, I seem to be typical of most shooters I know, and that's quite a few. To me, that's most people.

Ya think? ;)

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 05:28 PM
You're most likely a gun nut if:
-Your Christmas card has a gun theme
-You like having your picture taken with guns
-You would rather compromise the 1st Amendment (or any other), than restrict high capacity magazines
-You love to preach about liberty, but think Pearce (sic) Morgan and others should be deported for their views
-You think arming students might be a solution
-You think John Wayne movies are realistic
-You believe teachers are incompetant union thugs.....but we need to arm them
-You have nicknames for your guns
-You think guns in bars are a good idea
-You excessively use firearm terminology when discussing other subjects
-You support the NRA's opposition to background checks
-You think "Guns Don't Kill People - Black Kids On Welfare Do" is a winning political strategy
-You fired off a gun when your favorite Tea Party candidate got elected in 2010
-You like to show off your gun when you're drinking
-You blame violent rap music, but think violent lyrics by Guns&Roses, Alice Cooper (insert white boy band) have folksy charm.
-You lie awake at night thinking that if only the Newtown mom owned a few more weapons, then maybe she would still be alive

pefjr
12-27-2012, 05:31 PM
You're just saying that because you prefer open-carry.......Yep, in grizzly habitat, it's the only way. "Open Carry" is interesting subject, gonna start a thread.

botebum
12-27-2012, 05:49 PM
Yep, in grizzly habitat, it's the only way.
Vegas?

Doug

McMike
12-27-2012, 05:56 PM
You're most likely a gun nut if:
-Your Christmas card has a gun theme
-You like having your picture taken with guns
-You would rather compromise the 1st Amendment (or any other), than restrict high capacity magazines
-You love to preach about liberty, but think Pearce (sic) Morgan and others should be deported for their views
-You think arming students might be a solution
-You think John Wayne movies are realistic
-You have nicknames for your guns
-You think guns in bars are a good idea
-You excessively use firearm terminology when discussing other subjects
-You support the NRA's opposition to background checks
-You think "Guns Don't Kill People - Black Kids On Welfare Do" is a winning political strategy
-You fired off a gun when your favorite Tea Party candidate got elected in 2010
-You like to show off your gun when you're drinking
-You blame violent rap music, but think violent lyrics by Guns&Roses, Alice Cooper (insert white boy band) have folksy charm.
-You lie awake at night thinking that if only the Newtown mom owned a few more weapons, then maybe she would still be alive

+1.

skuthorp
12-27-2012, 06:29 PM
it's general invasion of privacy.
while you can legally buy a weapon, no one has the right to know what you have in your home.
what next ? Public availability of knowledge of who has sex toys.:rolleyes:
Mass murder, or even just one, is quite difficult with a plastic dildo or other 'device'. S&M devotees excepted of course:D

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 06:33 PM
But, I seem to be typical of most shooters I know, and that's quite a few.

That's good


To me, that's most people.

That's not!

Bob Adams
12-27-2012, 06:34 PM
You're most likely a gun nut if:
-Your Christmas card has a gun theme
-You like having your picture taken with guns
-You would rather compromise the 1st Amendment (or any other), than restrict high capacity magazines
-You love to preach about liberty, but think Pearce (sic) Morgan and others should be deported for their views
-You think arming students might be a solution
-You think John Wayne movies are realistic
-You have nicknames for your guns
-You think guns in bars are a good idea
-You excessively use firearm terminology when discussing other subjects
-You support the NRA's opposition to background checks
-You think "Guns Don't Kill People - Black Kids On Welfare Do" is a winning political strategy
-You fired off a gun when your favorite Tea Party candidate got elected in 2010
-You like to show off your gun when you're drinking
-You blame violent rap music, but think violent lyrics by Guns&Roses, Alice Cooper (insert white boy band) have folksy charm.
-You lie awake at night thinking that if only the Newtown mom owned a few more weapons, then maybe she would still be alive

Do you really believe this crap you are posting? Do you think this represents the average gun owner?

skuthorp
12-27-2012, 06:43 PM
It's not 'the average gun owner' that's the problem Bob.

Concordia...41
12-27-2012, 06:50 PM
while ownership is legal, no one has the right to access information on a private individuals possessions, whether theybe guns, lawn mowers or sex toys.

Excuse me if this has already been covered Meli, but legal gun ownership requires registration, which is public information. With a full name and date of birth (sounds like and approximate works too), I can pull a list of licenses - drivers, CDL (commercial drivers license), pilot, concealed weapon, and others. I can also get a list of properties owned, vessels, aircraft, and firearms. You can also do it by geographical location. It's called PUBLIC RECORDS.

Sex toys are no different than chewing gum - well, I guess that depends on how you use them - but they don't require a license.

When and if they do, that will also be subject to the Public Records Act.

seanz
12-27-2012, 07:15 PM
The bind moggles......






:D

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 07:21 PM
Do you really believe this crap you are posting?Some of them are tongue-in-cheek but others are spot-on.

-Plenty of pro gun advocates lecture us about liberty, but have signed the Piers Morgan deportation petition.
-They claim guns are not the issue, yet they support the NRA's opposition to background checks (Pssst..that includes YOU)
-They want to blame movies/video games/rap etc, but their own solution (Good Guy W/Gun) is based on Hollywood fantasies of Gary Cooper in High Noon or John Wayne in some bogus western
-David Gregory deserves to be prosecuted while George Zimmerman is a hero
-You want the Federal Government out of schools, but you want Congress to implement a federal program putting armed guards in every school.

I fish and I used to hunt; I've owned rifles; I've been to deer camp many times. I have friends and a brother who own handguns for protection (which I support). What I don't support is the blind dittohead mentality of many gun owners. I see them all the time.......a background check is the equivalent of Nazi Germany......if magazine capacities are limited, the terrorists win. New York deserved to be attacked on September 11 because of their strict gun control laws. Notice how Houston wasn't attacked?

They are crackpots.... but sadly they are driving too much of the rational gun debate. Unfortunately, there are too many gun owners who support this loon mentality rather than common sense because of some dopey all-or-none perspective.

Bob Adams
12-27-2012, 07:30 PM
I am opposed to backgound checks????

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 07:43 PM
I am opposed to backgound checks????You support the NRA while the NRA is opposed to background checks

If you truly supported background checks, this would be a great divide in your loyalty to the precious NRA. But in the typical doublespeak of their supporters, it is not.

Bob Adams
12-27-2012, 07:50 PM
I have catagoricly stated I do not march lockstep with the NRA. I am a member because there is no other organization to lobby for the rights of the gun owner. I have, as a voting member, expressed to the organization my displeasure with the latest response and suggested that softening of their stance was in order.

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 08:14 PM
I have catagoricly stated I do not march lockstep with the NRA. I am a member because there is no other organization to lobby for the rights of the gun owner. I have, as a voting member, expressed to the organization my displeasure with the latest response and suggested that softening of their stance was in order.Put your money where your mouth is.

Why not resign like George HW Bush did when he disagreed with their extreme views? Granted, there is an argument sometimes that one must be INSIDE the system in order to change the system...but that's not the case here. Your only true power is to walk away.

Until then, you are providing funds for the NRA to hire lobbyists and lawyers to oppose background checks.
Simple math.....
You fund the opposition of background checks
You oppose background checks.

botebum
12-27-2012, 08:15 PM
Bob, The NRA is not the only organization lobbying for gun rights. Merely the strongest.

Soundbounder, Attack the NRA all you want but quit lumping gun owners together with the NRA and characterizing them all as gun nuts.
Bob being a member of the NRA does not mean he supports all their policies just like I voted for Obama and don't support all of his.
You know that TV show about being smarter than a fifth grader?
Don't go on it.

Doug

Captain Intrepid
12-27-2012, 08:18 PM
Databases are notoriously hard to keep up to date. If someone starts a ****storm of publishing them online, they take the blame.

So if I make a FOI request from the government and publish the information i receive, any errors in the data given me are my fault? Not bloody likely!

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 08:31 PM
Bob, The NRA is not the only organization lobbying for gun rights. Merely the strongest.

Soundbounder, Attack the NRA all you want but quit lumping gun owners together with the NRA and characterizing them all as gun nuts.

Doug

Ditch the victim mentality....I haven't lumped all gun owners together


I fish and I used to hunt; I've owned rifles; I've been to deer camp many times. I have friends and a brother who own handguns for protection (which I support).

The fact remains that the NRA opposes background checks. Members of he NRA can hand-wring this all they want, but their dues fund opposition to background checks.

Why can't I get anyone from the Individual Responsibility Crowd to admit that they support and finance the opposition to background checks.

botebum
12-27-2012, 08:40 PM
I know a butt load of Catholics that are pro choice and pay tithes every Sunday.
Same thing, right?

You need to come down off the high horse.
It's got a broken leg.

Doug

Soundbounder
12-27-2012, 09:53 PM
I know a butt load of Catholics that are pro choice and pay tithes every Sunday.
Same thing, right

Not exactly, but darn good close enough.

Are you really trying to claim that I haven't challenged my relatives on this? Actually, had you accepted my Thanksgiving invitation:p, you would have heard me question my relatives pro-life stance while they turned a blind eye to the Priest molestation scandals.

I wish you had been there when I told my Vermont uncle that his church contributions were used to legally crush young boys who were molested by priests. He prefers to believe that NY Jews are the cause of all evil.....and me spending time in "Gay New York" makes me more of an accessory to this Sodom.

He finances child molestation defense lawyers
NRA members fund anti-background check campaigns.

Chip-skiff
12-27-2012, 10:19 PM
Yep, in grizzly habitat, it's the only way. "Open Carry" is interesting subject, gonna start a thread.

Vegas being prime griz habitat, you are obviously an expert.

I guided, herded, campjacked, cowboyed, was a range cop, and a solo backcountry ranger in griz habitat for 20-some years, and never carried a gun of any sort. I did have some law enforcement issues with drunken whackjobs (.357 mags in holsters) shooting randomly and scaring the bejasus out of some innocent Boy Scouts.

The idea of handguns being protection against griz is another stupid myth.

pefjr
12-27-2012, 11:04 PM
Vegas being prime griz habitat, you are obviously an expert.

I guided, herded, campjacked, cowboyed, was a range cop, and a solo backcountry ranger in griz habitat for 20-some years, and never carried a gun of any sort. I did have some law enforcement issues with drunken whackjobs (.357 mags in holsters) shooting randomly and scaring the bejasus out of some innocent Boy Scouts.

The idea of handguns being protection against griz is another stupid myth.I"m proud of you. I had a can of Bear Spray for a few years and one of my friends worried so much about me he gave me a 44 mag. I know what the "experts " like yourself say, but I can't tell you how much that 44mag freed me up. I go anywhere now and don't worry at all. With just the bear spray I was too afraid and cautious to enjoy the wilderness. Now, scat doodle, cause I ain't one of your whackos, I don't drink, nor shoot cans or pine cones, the damn ammo is to expensive. Oh,... you wanted to compare accomplishments once, how bout we PM our experiences and our background which BTW is very similar, I just don't go on and on about it all day long. I have probably had more experience than you and handled a firearm longer than you and have had firearm safety training drilled into my head with four different Gov't Agencys, and also including FLETC. I will wait for your PM. OH the Griz habitat is North Idaho 30 miles from the Canadian border where I own some property.

Oysterhouse
12-28-2012, 12:47 AM
In answer to the O.P.----- Yes! I should have this information about my neighbors. But I damn sure don’t want then to have it about me!

Meli’s comments about privacy on this thread are spot on.

Now about those “common sense sex toy controls” Is there a psyc. exam and background check required? Is the mandatory training performed in house or publicly? Who gives the examination and what constitutes a passing score on the proficiency requirements? What about high capacity sex toys? Extended magazines? Storage requirements? What about concealed carry? Is there a waiting period ------ “when seconds count help is only minutes away”.

For a great laugh have a drink and then peruse all of the gun threads-----mentally substituting the word “dildo” every time you see the word “gun”.

BrianW
12-28-2012, 12:56 AM
The idea of handguns being protection against griz is another stupid myth.

My co-worker did exactly that, except on Kodiak, where the bears are bigger than grizzlies. How sure are you about the other so called "myths" on guns? :)

BrianW
12-28-2012, 01:02 AM
So if I make a FOI request from the government and publish the information i receive, any errors in the data given me are my fault? Not bloody likely!

Wow, what happened to Mr...


I guess I'm just a strong proponent for individual responsibility.

... because it sounds like he has left the building.

That incorrect info was sitting harmless in the government version of purgatory, if you drag it up, and publish it to the world, you are responsible for the outcome. Not the errors, but the outcome. You're responsible for the outcome.

That's "individual responsibility", not lame "Hey, I didn't know it was incorrect!" excuses.

Captain Intrepid
12-28-2012, 02:44 AM
Wow, what happened to Mr...



... because it sounds like he has left the building.

That incorrect info was sitting harmless in the government version of purgatory, if you drag it up, and publish it to the world, you are responsible for the outcome. Not the errors, but the outcome. You're responsible for the outcome.

That's "individual responsibility", not lame [I]"Hey, I didn't know it was incorrect!" excuses.

In good faith, why wouldn't you expect the information to be correct? If you were getting information from say, the North Korean government, of course you'd expect the information to be ridiculously incorrect and would be responsible for passing it on without warning, but in a modern developed democracy? Come on. The civil service isn't that badly managed, and if it is, perhaps it needs a funding boost. Take the money from whatever current un-needed toy the pentagon wants to play with.

BrianW
12-28-2012, 03:13 AM
So now we know that even if registration is required, we can't expect the database to be accurate.

This story just gets worse for the gun-control crowd.

Captain Intrepid
12-28-2012, 03:32 AM
You're the one that's saying that you can't expect it to be accurate. I say it should be.

BrianW
12-28-2012, 03:35 AM
You're the one that's saying that you can't expect it to be accurate. I say it should be.

Really?

We're down to "takes one to know one" debate tactics now? ;)

htom
12-28-2012, 01:54 PM
You're most likely a gun nut if:
-Your Christmas card has a gun theme. Nope.
-You like having your picture taken with guns. Nope.
-You would rather compromise the 1st Amendment (or any other), than restrict high capacity magazines. Won't compromise either, thank you.
-You love to preach about liberty, but think Pearce (sic) Morgan and others should be deported for their views. Nope.
-You think arming students might be a solution, For some values of student and solution.
-You think John Wayne movies are realistic. :snort:
-You believe teachers are incompetant union thugs.....but we need to arm them. Some are incompetent, some are union, some are thugs, they should be allowed to be armed just as others are or are not. They're not special snowflakes.
-You have nicknames for your guns. Nope.
-You think guns in bars are a good idea. As long as those carrying are not drinking alcohol.
-You excessively use firearm terminology when discussing other subjects. Not really.
-You support the NRA's opposition to background checks. I mostly do not agree with the NRA; I've seen little evidence that the NICS has really prevented many killings.
-You think "Guns Don't Kill People - Black Kids On Welfare Do" is a winning political strategy. Racist.
-You fired off a gun when your favorite Tea Party candidate got elected in 2010. Nope.
-You like to show off your gun when you're drinking. I don't show off my guns, period.
-You blame violent rap music, but think violent lyrics by Guns&Roses, Alice Cooper (insert white boy band) have folksy charm. I'm not sure which is worse.
-You lie awake at night thinking that if only the Newtown mom owned a few more weapons, then maybe she would still be alive. Nope.

Maybe I'm not a gun nut.

switters
12-28-2012, 02:55 PM
Unbelievable, I dont know which was morr surprising. The results of this poll

Taken by mostly Americans or that I am in agreement with Meli.
For those in favor of this what else would you like to know?

pefjr
12-28-2012, 03:40 PM
For those in favor of this what else would you like to know?Neighborhood Sex Offenders
http://www.familywatchdog.us/

Captain Intrepid
12-28-2012, 04:31 PM
Really?

We're down to "takes one to know one" debate tactics now? ;)

Not so much.

Curtism
12-28-2012, 04:39 PM
Neighborhood Sex Offenders
http://www.familywatchdog.us/

So, now you're equating law abiding citizens with convicted sex offenders. Nice, Pef, I canardly wait for the encore.

pefjr
12-28-2012, 05:00 PM
So, now you're equating law abiding citizens with convicted sex offenders. Nice, Pef, I canardly wait for the encore.I did what?:D Canardly can I wait for your explanation......