Small boat, expensive hardware

[Sakari Aaltonen]

The small (13') sailboat I'm building has two sails, a novelty for me. The plans specify that the jib (20 sq ft) be controlled with two Ronstan RF67's, that is, two Swivel Deadeyes with Cleat(s).

The problem with this is that these cost about USD50 each. The sum, USD100, seems ridiculous, considering that the cost of the hull with spars, rudder, and daggerboard is about USD400.

I'll pay the USD100 if I have to. But can anyone suggest a cheaper alternative? As noted, I have no experience of jibs.

Thank you,
Sakari Aaltonen

[Keith Wilson]

How about a carved wooden fairlead at the proper sheeting point (a small chunk of wood with a hole through it, edges well rounded off), then a wooden jam cleat, located wherever is convenient. They can be made from scraps of any reasonably hard wood; the only cost will be the screws used to hold them down. Releasing the jib in a puff won't be quite as instantaneous as with a cam cleat, but it's only 20 sq ft.

[JimConlin]

A web search found it a couple of places for as little as $32.67 US

If you need both the functions of changing direction and quick-release cleating, I don't think you'll beat that by much.

[Matt Middleton]

In my limited dingy racing experience, I remember our little 420's having a cam cleat and fairlead, but no swivel. Maybe doing without that feature could save some dollars, if the design allows.

Good luck!
Matt

[Sakari Aaltonen]

Thank you for your suggestions. Wooden jam cleats sound intriguing; I think I'll try those. Would anyone have a favorite design they could recommend?

Wooden fairleads, on the other hand... Would they not have to be awfully bulky?

Sakari Aaltonen

[shadow99]

Sakari, I ran into the same situation as you with the hardware for a small sailing vessel. I used "Clamcleats" mostly the C704 model, where if angled correctly will give you 2:1 purchase, and a cheap yet strong hold. For the fairleads, the others had it "spot-on." Use scrap hardwood 3/8" thick is good for running 1/4" sheets, just drill the hole 9/32"-5/16" diameter (rope clearance).
If you don't care for the black or silver anodized clamcleats, scuff'em up and paint them, I did, a dark shade of mahogany :D , they blend in good with the rest of the boat. I purchased the clamcleats thru www.apsltd.com/ (http://www.apsltd.com/)
or I believe "clamcleats" has a website as well, I just don't have there address.

Rick

[Keith Wilson]

Here you are - an extensive web page on cleats of all types (http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/boat/matl/cleats.html#Butler), with dimensions, by our friend Dadadata. I particularly like the looks of the Butler cleat, about 2/3 of the way down the page.

Wooden fairleads can be made just about the same size as the Harken plastic equivalents, although it's easier to drill for the hold-down screws if you make them a little wider. Is that too bulky? Depends on your tastes, I guess.

One good way I've found to treat small wood fittings is to heat them up in the oven (200 degrees F or thereabouts), then immerse them in linseed oil and let them cool. The oil appears to be drawn into the wood as the air in it cools and contracts, and impregnates much better than just soaking it. Don't try this with epoxy glued assemblies, though.

[ 04-09-2003, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[shadow99]

Here's that clamcleat application page, chocked full of simple ideas & uses for clamcleat rope cleats.

http://www.clamcleat.com/marineapplications.htm#Rig%20controls

Rick

[JimD]

You can also head to your freindly, neighbourhood home depot or other well equiped hardware store where you can find all kinds of turnbuckles, blocks/pulleys, etc. The quality isn't up to marine standards but its still decent and if you're trying to build a little boat on a budget its worth a look.

[Tom Lathrop]

Wooden fairleads are not all that bad if you use the right kind of wood. You want a very dense wood that takes a high polish when cut with a sharp knife or chisel. Lignum vitea, ebony, ipe (greenheart) and purpleheart are a few that will work well. Most woods will have far too much friction to work well as a fairlead. Some of the large stainless eyestraps can work well too and they are pretty cheap. I have also made them from blocks of hard plastic such as Delrin.

Clam cleats are fine for lightly loaded lines but will jam under heavy load and be very difficult to release in a hurry. Your boat should not have that problem. Wooden horn jam cleats are fine but can't be released quickly either.

Rick, you lost me with the 2-1 purchase from a clamcleat. How does that work?

[ 04-09-2003, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Tom Lathrop ]

[Sakari Aaltonen]

Yes - the Butler cleat looks very nice. But I have to ask - which way should it face? (This is how ignorant I am.)

My reservation about wooden fairleads has to do with the required, strength-related, thickness of the wood. I also have some painful experience of grain in the wrong direction. However, I just found a photo in Iain Oughtred's book clearly showing how it should be done.

About clam cleats - they may be nifty and functional and cheap, but... The way they look....

Sakari Aaltonen

[shadow99]

Sakari, Did you read my thread earlier that said "you can paint the clamcleats." If I only had a digital camera, oh the things I could show you :D . If you don't like the "modern styling" of the standard clamcleat they make a bollard style as well (looks like a winch).

Tom, By using clamcleats C704 model, it allows you to pass a line thru the base of the cleat, the line passes to a pulley & back to the clamcleat, pull the free end, 2:1 advantange to you. See www.clamcleat.com (http://www.clamcleat.com) for details.

Rick

[shadow99]

Sakari, have a look at this.

Rick

http://www.clamcleat.com/PDF_files/Id210.pdf

[shadow99]

OK, Try this instead.

Rick

http://www.clamcleat.com/PDF_files/Id210.pdf

[Keith Wilson]

Which way to orient a jam cleat depends on where you'll be sitting and the configuration of your boat. The jib sheet would run from the fairlead, around the short lumpy end of the cleat, then under the the long horn where it wedges. Orient the cleat so you can jam the line in and release it easily - releasing quickly, preferably just by pulling the line from your normal sailing position, is more important than jamming easily, of course. OTOH, a 20 sq ft jib is about the size of a moderate beach towel, and instant release is probably not that critical. I would spend the money on a real ball-bearing cam cleat for the main, however.

Tom makes a good point about the kind of wood - I haven't ever used a wood fairlead where the line makes much of an angle, so haven't run into friction problems. The black plastic ones are cheap and work well, although they're not beautiful.

FWIW, I haven't positive experiences with clamcleats; they seem to jam at the most inconvenient times. I wouldn't use one for a sheet - an outhaul or downhaul or a snotter, yes.

[Paul Scheuer]

Wasn't there a thread on simplicity a while ago. I remember the pram. The main sheet was the hand that wasn't on the tiller.

[Dave Hadfield]

When it comes to heating wood and linseed oil, what I've had very good results with is to actually boil the wooden part in the oil.

Put a paint can half-full of linseed oil on a wood stove. Put in the part. Let the oil heat to a rolling boil and cook it that way for an hour or two.

This really works. It darkens the wood, but the oiled-finish appearance lasts quite a while. The part will take a lot of weathering before it discolours, perhaps years worth. It's perfect for things like wooden blocks and cleats that would quickly get their varnish worn off.

Obviously this won't work on glued-up parts.

[Wild Wassa]

Originally posted by Paul Scheuer:
Wasn't there a thread on simplicity a while ago. I remember the pram. The main sheet was the hand that wasn't on the tiller.

:D

If your not going to jam the main sheet, which small dinghy sailors don't, often, buy a pair of the 'Ronstan Sailing Gloves', :D .

I didn't jam on at all during my last race, held the sheet for 2hrs 40mins plus, without gloves. My fingernails split on the quicks. I'll never do that again without gloves. They were ****ty sheets though, in a boat I didn't know.

I could hardly move my hands the following day, it was a heavy boat, and I had to nurse a crew person that didn't have a clew.

Spend the bucks Mate. They don't need to be the Ronstans, many other brands are cheaper. Get yourself a good set, Mate. The last thing that you want is to have jib sheets that are hard to release or jam. Especially if you are single handing the boat. Being a little boat sailor, myself, little boats respond well when things happen quickly, and things come unstuck when they don't.

Warren.

ps, If the bucks weren't a problem, buy the Harkens, they are worth the extra 30% in cost. They're smoother than smooth.

[ 04-11-2003, 04:57 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]