PDA

View Full Version : spin?



Phillip Allen
12-07-2012, 10:51 AM
jobless rate falls to lowest since Bush left office

jobless rate falls to lowest since Obama took office

http://www.4029tv.com/news/money/Unemployment-rate-falls-to-lowest-level-since-2008/-/8897294/17691166/-/svodabz/-/index.html?absolute=true

Keith Wilson
12-07-2012, 10:56 AM
Ignore the words; look at the numbers:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EFVSUUocI8U/UMHxrFKvhvI/AAAAAAAAWuM/nCnIaiXhBPQ/s1600/UnemployRateNov2012.jpg

Canoez
12-07-2012, 11:12 AM
When you look versus what folks think the Natural Rate of Unemployment is, it isn't quite as bad as it could be..

Federal Reserve Economic Data Chart:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/NROU_Max_630_378.png

John of Phoenix
12-07-2012, 11:19 AM
You're the one adding the spin. The article mentions nothing about either dubya or Obama.

The headline is:

Unemployment rate falls to lowest level since 2008

Vince Brennan
12-07-2012, 11:23 AM
"Aw, Shucks...."

Phillip Allen
12-07-2012, 01:56 PM
only the usual hecklers?
Norman is closest to a straight answer

Concordia 33
12-07-2012, 01:59 PM
Ignore the words; look at the numbers:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EFVSUUocI8U/UMHxrFKvhvI/AAAAAAAAWuM/nCnIaiXhBPQ/s1600/UnemployRateNov2012.jpg

Unemployment rates do not count the large numbers of people who's unemployment benefits ran out before they could find a job or those that left the work force due to being discouraged. Given the protracted nature of this recession, these numbers become more telling.

Tom Montgomery
12-07-2012, 02:03 PM
All I know for a fact is that in Louisville, Kentucky, Ford Motor Company and GE have hired hundreds (more than a thousand between the two) of new employees over the last 12 months. LG&E is accepting applications this very moment for 700 new jobs. And smaller manufacturers and retail establishments around the city, large and small, are advertising job openings.

So I wonder, Phillip... why do you think the unemployment statistics are "spin?"

Is the economy still dead in your part of Arkansas?

Keith Wilson
12-07-2012, 02:05 PM
Unemployment rates do not count . . . people who's unemployment benefits ran out before they could find a job . . . Yes they do, actually. Anyone who's looking for work is counted.


. . . or those that left the work force due to being discouraged.True. You can get those numbers, however.

One way or another, unemployment is too high.

Tom Montgomery
12-07-2012, 02:08 PM
Unemployment is indeed too high.

But to deny that the jobless situation in the USA has improved over the last 12 months is simply nonsense driven by ideology and ignorance.

John of Phoenix
12-07-2012, 02:11 PM
jobless rate falls to lowest since Bush left office

jobless rate falls to lowest since Obama took office

Both are true, identical in fact. What's your problem?

Tom Montgomery
12-07-2012, 02:30 PM
Well, not quite.

The headline on Phillip's article is "Unemployment rate falls to lowest level since 2008"

Bush left office in 2009. Obama took office in 2009.

It is wrong to say that Obama took office in 2008.

?????

Who has said Obama took office in 2008?

John is correct, both statements can be true.

John of Phoenix
12-07-2012, 02:33 PM
Can you find the spin PA is seeing?

John of Phoenix
12-07-2012, 03:06 PM
That's why I'm puzzled by his accusation of spin. The article has no mention of either dubya or Obama and, as I read it, is factual and spin free. The only spin I see is what he added in the opening post.

Just another, "Aww shucks, everyone is stupid except Phillip."

Tom Montgomery
12-07-2012, 03:06 PM
Please note that the phrase "jobless rate falls to lowest since Obama took office" does not appear in the article, nor the headline. That is Phillip's own addition.OK.... :confused:

So? Are we surprised?

Phillip Allen
12-07-2012, 10:50 PM
John... I didn't say I saw spin in the article... I just pointed out how spin works by example

bamamick
12-08-2012, 08:17 AM
If things continue to improve after the first of the year then I think it would be safe to say that they are truly a little better, but I am not counting chickens just yet.

On the one hand, Mobile's mayor just announced that another aircraft supply company will build some offices and a facility here to better supply Airbus. On the other hand, my German bosses are telling me that the financial worries surrounding the US economy have them very worried about our ongoing expansion in China and elsewhere, and about the health of our plants in Europe. We are in the middle of a big expansion in Shanghai right now, and what one of my bosses told me on Monday was that the company was already thinking about putting it on hold, or most likely, completing the project and then either shutting US down or slowing way down in Mobile. My biggest hope is that we are too efficient to shut down (one of my plants runs at yields between 95-96%. That is a very high yield in the specialty chemicals business).

Anyway, we will see. Things are definitely picking up around here, but we will see what happens at the first of the year. If we get by it I imagine we will be o.k.. If not then I expect very stormy waters.

Mickey Lake

Nicholas Scheuer
12-08-2012, 09:26 AM
OF COURSE part of the 7.7% is due to Xmas retail hiring! That's what happens when Xmas shopping gets hyped to the point where becomes key to our economy's GNP.

John of Phoenix
12-08-2012, 10:28 AM
I didn't say I saw spin in the article... I just pointed out how spin works by exampleIf there is no spin in the article, what spin could you possibly be pointing out?

Ian McColgin
12-08-2012, 10:43 AM
Phillip's approach to pointing out spin is not unlike pointing to an elephant and telling us it's like a rhinosorous.

His approach to explaining spin is a matter of pointing to the elephant, telling us it's like a rhinosorous, and claiming that's the explanation.

When a wheel is spun on a horizontal axis and held at one end of the axel, the gyroscopic effect makes it rotate on that axel end. Not unlike the spinner chasing his own tale. Of the metaphore masher getting confused.

Phillip Allen
12-08-2012, 10:46 AM
Phillip's approach to pointing out spin is not unlike pointing to an elephant and telling us it's like a rhinosorous.

His approach to explaining spin is a matter of pointing to the elephant, telling us it's like a rhinosorous, and claiming that's the explanation.

When a wheel is spun on a horizontal axis and held at one end of the axel, the gyroscopic effect makes it rotate on that axel end. Not unlike the spinner chasing his own tale. Of the metaphore masher getting confused.

now think about it, Ian... how many times have people told me that I was not making myself understood, that I didn't make any sense and so on... now you complain because I dumb down my posts?

Tom Montgomery
12-08-2012, 11:15 AM
now think about it, Ian... how many times have people told me that I was not making myself understood, that I didn't make any sense and so on... now you complain because I dumb down my posts?
You mean to say that has been DELIBERATE?

Ian McColgin
12-08-2012, 11:18 AM
Phillip, you did not dumb down squat. You simply declined to explain anything at all. Try another metaphore. A photo of a diesel engine is not an explanation of how a gasoline engine works. It's a photo, not an explanation of anything. And it's not even a photo of the subject.

Ian McColgin
12-08-2012, 11:34 AM
Maybe the outline of example might help.

I) Premis - Spin may be contained in headline
A) Spin definitions:
1) Explicit selection of fact to blame one side or take credit for other
2) Implicit selection of fact to suggest blame or credit but causing reader to make that conclusion

II) Three sample headlines
A) Actual
B) End Bush head
C) Start Obama head
D) What, if any, difference twards either explicit or implicit spin

III) Conclusions
A) Given facts, is any headline induced spin possible?
1. Example pro-Obama spin and reasons why it's effectivly pro-Obama and why it's spin rather than just fact.
2. Example of anti-Obama spin. (Good luck on that!)
B) Consideration as to whether calling "spin" when the facts are against one is like crying "Out" to influence the ref viewing a liner.

Further thought - If you were writing an OP ED, you might make a couple sentence version of III B as the sting lead, then II A,B & C to get facts up. After that I A 1 & 2 and witty wrap-up with III.

This is not unlike the classic three point sermon, which one of my homolytics profs summarized as, "Point one: Tell them what you're going to say. Point two: Say it. Point three: Tell them what you said.