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View Full Version : Opening my son's eyes - living in the LA ghetto



The Bigfella
12-06-2012, 06:50 PM
My youngest is in the US at the moment... he's in a rental apartment in downtown Los Angeles for a couple of weeks.

Apparently he's described it as "living in the ghetto" (I'm not linked to him of FB).

He's off to Miami, Baltimore and Ohio after that.

I'm looking forward to hearing what he thinks of it all.

Soundbounder
12-06-2012, 06:54 PM
What type of ghetto is it?

AnalogKid
12-06-2012, 07:13 PM
It's where they put all those filthy, less-than-human downunderians.

Doug

Bit like Earl's Court in London then. Still, I bet all the bars in the area are well staffed.

LeeG
12-06-2012, 07:15 PM
Ian, is he touring ghettos ?

The Bigfella
12-06-2012, 07:35 PM
I'm not entirely sure what he's up to. Its a holiday first and foremost. I imagine music will feature a bit.

He's turning 21 in a couple of weeks. He's quite a fan of US basketball and football... so he's going to Miami and Baltimore for home games of the teams he follows (BB and FB in that order I think).

He knows someone in Ohio, so is going to visit.

Concordia...41
12-06-2012, 07:38 PM
It's been a few years since Chico and the Man, but I'm pretty sure in LA it's called the barrio.

The Bigfella
12-06-2012, 07:50 PM
I found him on Facebook and just sent him a message. Not game to "Friend" him though....

elf
12-06-2012, 08:00 PM
Generally I would never in a million years ask my kid that age to be a Friend on FB. They need some privacy.

The Bigfella
12-06-2012, 08:29 PM
Exactly, Emily... hence I'm not... although I am on the support group he runs for local youth, on pain of being "defriended" if I say anything.

I just heard back from him. He's finding it interesting. Hasn't seen another Caucasian since he left LAX. He's been shopping at Walmart too.... and is now finding that he has to pay big bucks to rent a car because he's under 25.

Concordia...41
12-06-2012, 08:30 PM
Generally I would never in a million years ask my kid that age to be a Friend on FB. They need some privacy.

Oh good grief. FB is where I see my grandkids' pictures. :) One is doing really well with his swim team. Between the ones he and his friends post (which somehow show up on his page - I guess because he's tagged?) - his mom doesn't have to cut out newspaper articles and mail them. I mean, how 2001 would that be ....??? ;)

I kid you not, but it's common in custody / visitation situations these days. Where the legal papers used to say that the non-resident parent had so much right to visitation, phone contact, etc. most parenting agreements these days address social websites and passwords.

The Bigfella
12-06-2012, 08:31 PM
Oh good grief. FB is where I see my grandkids' pictures. :) One is doing really well with his swim team. Between the ones he and his friends post (which somehow show up on his page - I guess because he's tagged?) - his mom doesn't have to cut out newspaper articles and mail them. I mean, how 2001 would that be ....??? ;)

I kid you not, but it's common in custody / visitation situations these days. Where the legal papers used to say that the non-resident parent had so much right to visitation, phone contact, etc. most parenting agreements these days address social websites and passwords.

Yeah, but when they've got kids of their own, its different. Parents (ie the Grandparents) are needed again then....

Soundbounder
12-06-2012, 08:44 PM
Hasn't seen another Caucasian since he left LAX. So, he's in a "ghetto" in downtown Los Angeles and he hasn't seen any Latinos.

I find that hard to believe

The Bigfella
12-06-2012, 08:50 PM
So, he's in a "ghetto" in downtown Los Angeles and he hasn't seen any Latinos.

I find that hard to believe

I don't think skin colour was the determining factor in his "ghetto" comment. He's lived his whole life on the city fringe, with bushland behind our house. I think he'd call any apartment block a ghetto. I don't think he's impressed at what he's getting for what he's paying.

Soundbounder
12-06-2012, 08:59 PM
I don't think skin colour was the determining factor in his "ghetto" comment. He's lived his whole life on the city fringe, with bushland behind our house. I think he'd call any apartment block a ghetto. I don't think he's impressed at what he's getting for what he's paying.
You and I have different understandings for the meaning of the words Ghetto and Caucasian

LeeG
12-06-2012, 10:47 PM
I don't think skin colour was the determining factor in his "ghetto" comment. He's lived his whole life on the city fringe, with bushland behind our house. I think he'd call any apartment block a ghetto. I don't think he's impressed at what he's getting for what he's paying.

He should head down to SanPedro for nicer digs, some place with a bay view, the ghetto there is cozier

The Bigfella
12-06-2012, 10:55 PM
If skin color wasn't a factor then why did you feel the need to comment on it?

Doug

Such a short fella to have such a high horse.


He commented on it, I presume, because it is a very different place to what he is used to. Any rules against that or is it just you being you?

LeeG
12-06-2012, 11:01 PM
He should get the hell out of there if it doesn't hit him right. There are a lot of other places to be in the LA basin than "the ghetto"

purri
12-06-2012, 11:56 PM
He could always head up north to Castro Street...

Meli
12-07-2012, 01:24 AM
I actually agree with BF aboutparentsnot invading their kidsfacebook.
MyIdiot brother was snooping on his daughters, found some innocent banter between her and her male cousin, ( not my son :D)Emailed his nephew with a "HOW DARE YOU.. You are older bla blah blah" nevy and his mum were very upset.

Meli
12-07-2012, 01:29 AM
Not wanting to worry you though, isn't the LA ghetto wher scumbag life insurance companies target parents to take out funeral insurance on their children?

saw a programm on the yaybeecee aboutitawhile ago.

Peerie Maa
12-07-2012, 07:54 AM
You and I have different understandings for the meaning of the words Ghetto and Caucasian

Ghetto = Blacksmiths quarter
Murano = Glass blowers quarter.

LeeG
12-07-2012, 08:45 AM
You and I have different understandings for the meaning of the words Ghetto and Caucasian

What is your meaning for those words? Unless a person provides more modifiers I take ghetto to be a run down poor urban area, Caucasian to mean white.

LeeG
12-07-2012, 08:47 AM
Not wanting to worry you though, isn't the LA ghetto wher scumbag life insurance companies target parents to take out funeral insurance on their children?

saw a programm on the yaybeecee aboutitawhile ago.

There isn't 'a' LA ghetto.

In the photo below the city of Los Angeles comprises about 10% of the flat area. There are dozens of cities surrounding LosAngles city but it's one continuous megalopolis. When I was 15 I rode my bicycle from the bottom of the pic, the western edge of the harbor in San Pedro, north along Western Avenue to Hollywood. About 30miles.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Los_Angeles_Basin_JPLLandsat.jpg

Soundbounder
12-07-2012, 09:18 AM
What is your meaning for those words? Unless a person provides more modifiers I take ghetto to be a run down poor urban area, Caucasian to mean white.My definition of ghetto includes a high concentration of a particular ethnic group. That's why I asked in post #2 what kind of ghetto it is.

A Caucasian is someone of European, North African, or western Asian descent. Hispanics are Caucasian.
I spent enough time in Southern California to know that one would be hard pressed to find an urban neighborhood where you would not see any Mexicans. Even areas that have traditionally been predominantly Black (Compton, Watts), still contain a significant number of Mexicans. That's why I find the comment in post #11 claiming he hasn't seen another Caucasian, to be highly unbelievable.

LeeG
12-07-2012, 09:30 AM
My definition of ghetto includes a high concentration of a particular ethnic group. That's why I asked in post #2 what kind of ghetto it is.

A Caucasian is someone of European, North African, or western Asian descent. Hispanics are Caucasian.
I spent enough time in Southern California to know that one would be hard pressed to find an urban neighborhood where you would not see any Mexicans. Even areas that have traditionally been predominantly Black (Compton, Watts), still contain a significant number of Mexicans

Ok, and a modifier would be needed to differentiate a Black ghetto from a Latino or White ghetto. Wrt Caucasian I'm pretty sure the census differentiates white from Hispanic. Sounds like you are using the term caucasoid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race#Usage_in_the_United_States

In the United States, the term Caucasian has been mainly used to describe a group commonly called Whites, as defined by the government and Census Bureau.

Soundbounder
12-07-2012, 09:51 AM
Ok, and a modifier would be needed to differentiate a Black ghetto from a Latino or White ghetto. Wrt Caucasian I'm pretty sure the census differentiates white from Hispanic. Sounds like you are using the term caucasoid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race#Usage_in_the_United_States

In the United States, the term Caucasian has been mainly used to describe a group commonly called Whites, as defined by the government and Census Bureau.
The US Census does lots of quirky things. There are towns hours away from NYC which are listed as part of the New York Metropolitan Area.
The US Census serves a valuable function.....but not as a dictionary.

If the US had an influx of Italian and Greek immigration, and used the census to obtain a better grasp of those numbers, would that mean they are no longer Caucasian?

Hispanics are Caucasians - they are of European descent

Dan McCosh
12-07-2012, 11:12 AM
Hispanics are Caucasians - they are of European descent

If you visited Mexico or Cuba you would see the error here.

Soundbounder
12-07-2012, 11:42 AM
If you visited Mexico or Cuba you would see the error here.I have visited Mexico many times, and yes, there are people that are of mixed race....(just like in the Caribbean, and elsewhere).

However, the word Hispanic = Spanish
Latino = Latin America

Hispanics are Caucasian
Latinos may or may not be Caucasian

Dan McCosh
12-07-2012, 11:57 AM
I have visited Mexico many times, and yes, there are people that are of mixed race....(just like in the Caribbean, and elsewhere).

However, the word Hispanic = Spanish
Latino = Latin America

Hispanics are Caucasian
Latinos may or may not be Caucasian Hispanic is a term concocted in the U.S. In California, for example, "Hispanic" excluded people from Spain for purposes of affirmative action. Hispanics from the Caribbean often are Spanish-speaking of African origin. In Mexico, indigenous peoples, and so on. You are stuck on using logic. There is no logic to the term.

Soundbounder
12-07-2012, 12:20 PM
Hispanic is a term concocted in the U.S. In California, for example, "Hispanic" excluded people from Spain for purposes of affirmative action. Hispanics from the Caribbean often are Spanish-speaking of African origin. In Mexico, indigenous peoples, and so on. You are stuck on using logic. There is no logic to the term.The fact that people use the terms incorrectly does not change the fact that a large percentage of Mexicans are of Spanish heritage. They are Caucasian.


In the meantime, I need to go talk with Monica. She sure is going to be surprised to learn she is Hispanic.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab79/Soundbounder/monica2.jpg

B_B
12-07-2012, 12:31 PM
If everyone uses a term "incorrectly" then the meaning has changed, cool?

LeeG
12-07-2012, 12:49 PM
The US Census does lots of quirky things. There are towns hours away from NYC which are listed as part of the New York Metropolitan Area.
The US Census serves a valuable function.....but not as a dictionary.

If the US had an influx of Italian and Greek immigration, and used the census to obtain a better grasp of those numbers, would that mean they are no longer Caucasian?

Hispanics are Caucasians - they are of European descent

People do a lot of quirky things like fixate on a particular definition while ignoring a range of possible definitions.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caucasian

used especially in referring to persons of European descent having usually light skin pigmentation

Dan McCosh
12-07-2012, 01:08 PM
The majority of Mexicans are of some mixture of European and indigenous origin. Others range from several indigenous groups, and purely African, or African-indigenous mix. All those speaking Spanish would be "Hispanic" according to the U.S. census. Most would not look like any notion of "Caucasian", whatever that might be. Most "Hispanic" immigrants in the U.S. have a non-European heritage. Most also are two immigrations away from any European heritage.

Soundbounder
12-07-2012, 01:11 PM
People do a lot of quirky things like fixate on a particular definition while ignoring a range of possible definitions.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caucasian

used especially in referring to persons of European descent having usually light skin pigmentation

I haven't ignored other possible definitions
In post #17 I wrote:

You and I have different understandings for the meaning of the words Ghetto and Caucasian

I however include Portuguese, Spanish, Italians, and Greeks in my definition of White. I also define them as Caucasians.
You choose not to, except when the US Census does so.

Dan McCosh
12-07-2012, 01:17 PM
Might attempt to sort out the differences between a nation, a language, an ethnic group, a race, and a bad neighborhood.

Soundbounder
12-07-2012, 01:20 PM
All those speaking Spanish would be "Hispanic" according to the U.S. census.If we are going to base this on the US Census, then anyone of Spanish origin is not White or Caucasian either. But someone from Portugal is.

Question #5
http://www.prb.org/Articles/2009/questionnaire.aspx

Dan McCosh
12-07-2012, 01:34 PM
If we are going to base this on the US Census, then anyone of Spanish origin is not White or Caucasian either. But someone from Portugal is.

Question #5
http://www.prb.org/Articles/2009/questionnaire.aspx The U.S. Census today collects data on Hispanics and Whites separately. Both are self-identified. "White" is a holdover from slavery, when it affected the vote. It's a bit more complicated today.

B_B
12-07-2012, 02:00 PM
I haven't ignored other possible definitions....
You seem some worked up about something you happily admit may be nebulous.

Soundbounder
12-07-2012, 02:24 PM
You seem some worked up about something you happily admit may be nebulous.
Enough about me......
Do you define Caucasian as being of European descent, or do you exclude those with slightly darker skin, or those from certain countries?

Just curious ;)

B_B
12-07-2012, 02:48 PM
Enough about me......
Do you define Caucasian as being of European descent, or do you exclude those with slightly darker skin, or those from certain countries?

Just curious ;)
Me, I'm all about harmony. ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CmALA8miQY8

To my understanding the North American vernacular is that "Caucasian" means "white". And in this context "white" means a mixed bag of things of which culture, skin colour, ancestry, etc. all play a part.

But as I said above, I'm about harmony. I don't identify people as Caucasian or not.
The important part in the Census, and in all our understandings, is "self-identify".

Dan McCosh
12-07-2012, 02:56 PM
I think that this started out with some concern that Bigfella's son had booked into a bad neighborhood in Los Angeles. Dunno where he is, but it could be of concern. LA's bad spots aren't all that obvious compared to many cities, but they can be pretty rough. Dunno where "downtown" is supposed to be either, since there isn't much of a center to LA. On the other hand, maybe he's just being dramatic.

B_B
12-07-2012, 03:00 PM
... On the other hand, maybe he's just being dramatic.
Maybe he's just a kid in a strange place and, overwhelmed by the differences, used some words loosely which some of us are now parsing to infinity.

LeeG
12-07-2012, 03:12 PM
Might attempt to sort out the differences between a nation, a language, an ethnic group, a race, and a bad neighborhood.

Strange all this parsing when I bet Ian's son meant a bad neighborhood.

Dan McCosh
12-07-2012, 03:14 PM
I do wonder what it would be like to travel in the U.S. as a foreigner. The cheap hotels I sometimes use in Europe and elsewhere are often quite dangerous in many big U.S. cities. The lack of reasonable public transportation is problematic. I think it could be kind of a tricky place to travel around in with no guidance. FWIW: I'm in Mexico City at the moment.

Soundbounder
12-07-2012, 03:46 PM
LA's bad spots aren't all that obvious compared to many cities, but they can be pretty rough. Dunno where "downtown" is supposed to be either, since there isn't much of a center to LA. On the other hand, maybe he's just being dramatic.
Agree

Meli
12-07-2012, 03:51 PM
Point of order guys.
Hispania was the Roman name for Spain.
Caucaisian, mongoloid negroid are the three generally acepted human phenotypes..
north Africans are Caucasian, Australian Aboriginals are Caucasian, Inuit are mongoloid, as I think are American Indians
mexicans of Spanish decent are certainly Caucasian despite your silly americentric census.

what an eye opening discussion:rolleyes:

Ted Hoppe
12-07-2012, 04:29 PM
He will be visiting the South Central if he likes FB and BB -the home of the USC Trojans. there are several miles of less desirable blocks with only a liquor store to buy the essentials. large grocery stores have a difficult time operating in those neighborhoods.

if he liked to visit northern california, we do have Oakland and Richmond here. I'll even get him tickets for the Raiders game with a tee shirt of the Silver and black. then again maybe he is a Detroit pistions & Lions fan - plenty of easy squatting to save money for game tickets there.

LeeG
12-07-2012, 04:38 PM
I think that this started out with some concern that Bigfella's son had booked into a bad neighborhood in Los Angeles. Dunno where he is, but it could be of concern. LA's bad spots aren't all that obvious compared to many cities, but they can be pretty rough. Dunno where "downtown" is supposed to be either, since there isn't much of a center to LA. On the other hand, maybe he's just being dramatic.

Downtown?

Pick one, there's dozens of them.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Los_Angeles_Basin_JPLLandsat.jpg

Dan McCosh
12-07-2012, 04:43 PM
Point of order guys.
Hispania was the Roman name for Spain.
Caucaisian, mongoloid negroid are the three generally acepted human phenotypes..
north Africans are Caucasian, Australian Aboriginals are Caucasian, Inuit are mongoloid, as I think are American Indians
mexicans of Spanish decent are certainly Caucasian despite your silly americentric census.

what an eye opening discussion:rolleyes: Sounds like they should be Mongoloid, from an Americentric point of view.

LeeG
12-07-2012, 05:12 PM
Point of order guys.
Hispania was the Roman name for Spain.
Caucaisian, mongoloid negroid are the three generally acepted human phenotypes..
north Africans are Caucasian, Australian Aboriginals are Caucasian, Inuit are mongoloid, as I think are American Indians
mexicans of Spanish decent are certainly Caucasian despite your silly americentric census.

what an eye opening discussion:rolleyes:

A census by Americans for American policy using American vernacular is silly?

What do you call a bucket?

B_B
12-07-2012, 05:44 PM
A census by Americans for American policy using American vernacular is silly?

What do you call a bucket?
I did find it funny that an Ozzie sheila who, on her best days types like a ham fisted pre-schooler, would make language a 'point of order'. ;) :D

Soundbounder
12-07-2012, 05:52 PM
A census by Americans for American policy using American vernacular is silly?

Excluding Spain from Europe is an example of American vernacular?
Not where I live.

Soundbounder
12-07-2012, 06:01 PM
Point of order guys.
Hispania was the Roman name for Spain.
Caucaisian, mongoloid negroid are the three generally acepted human phenotypes..
north Africans are Caucasian, Australian Aboriginals are Caucasian, Inuit are mongoloid, as I think are American Indians
mexicans of Spanish decent are certainly Caucasian despite your silly americentric census.



Too late, Meli.......the mob has spoken :p

Rum_Pirate
12-07-2012, 06:07 PM
I'm not entirely sure what he's up to. Its a holiday first and foremost. I imagine music will feature a bit.

He's turning 21 in a couple of weeks. He's quite a fan of US basketball and football... so he's going to Miami and Baltimore for home games of the teams he follows (BB and FB in that order I think).

He knows someone in Ohio, so is going to visit.


Hmm, that means he can't drink alcohol until then legally in the USA. :ycool:

Have you got of bail money available? :ycool:

Ted Hoppe
12-07-2012, 06:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ox1Tore9nw

Meli
12-07-2012, 06:29 PM
I did find it funny that an Ozzie sheila who, on her best days types like a ham fisted pre-schooler, would make language a 'point of order'. ;) :D
I blame the IPad.
Im just curious why your census has a separate classification for those specifically of Mexican/Spanish decent.
Melbourne has the largest Greek community in the world after Athens, but we don't ask on our census
I think we only ask if you were born here, or not or if you are indig or Torres Strait . You have a not stated option.
pIt seems a little divisive to single out ethnic groups unless just for specific questions which are voluntary.

LeeG
12-07-2012, 06:42 PM
I blame the IPad.
Im just curious why your census has a separate classification for those specifically of Mexican/Spanish decent.
Melbourne has the largest Greek community in the world after Athens, but we don't ask on our census
I think we only ask if you were born here, or not or if you are indig or Torres Strait . You have a not stated option.
pIt seems a little divisive to single out ethnic groups unless just for specific questions which are voluntary.

Might have something to do with geography and history

Meli
12-07-2012, 06:51 PM
Sure, but then why just Hispanics, why not Poles, French.Like us, your population was created from many different lands and cultures. Why single out one group? surely they are just Citizens.

Keith Wilson
12-07-2012, 06:55 PM
I'm just curious why your census has a separate classification for those specifically of Mexican/Spanish decent.Numbers, mainly. We live next to a continent and a half populated almost entirely by Spanish speakers (apologies to the Brazilians), and they're the largest ethnic/linguistic minority in the US by a considerable margin. If we had 50 million Poles, we'd probably put them on the census too.

purri
12-07-2012, 07:11 PM
Meli, Chicago outranks Melbs for Greek descent.

B_B
12-07-2012, 08:00 PM
I blame the IPad.
Im just curious why your census has a separate classification for those specifically of Mexican/Spanish decent.
Melbourne has the largest Greek community in the world after Athens, but we don't ask on our census
I think we only ask if you were born here, or not or if you are indig or Torres Strait . You have a not stated option.
pIt seems a little divisive to single out ethnic groups unless just for specific questions which are voluntary.
Ain't my census. I spell things like labour correctly. ;)

wrt to the American census. America is a really race conscious nation. It has something to do with the way the first Europeans were outcasts, the way they treated aboriginals, slavery, Jim Crow laws all the way up to affirmative action.

Poles, et. al. could, within a generation, 'assimilate'. Blacks, and "hispanics" not so much. If one was 'white' all one had to do was change one's name to Smith and no-one would know you came from Italy, or Ireland. If one is Latino (a cultural rather than ethnic distinction) it doesn't matter if your family has been living in Arizona since before the Mayflower, you're still a Mex.

or some such :D ;)

AussieBarney
12-08-2012, 05:07 AM
gawd talk about thread drift. Ian was talkin' about his young bloke in your country and in 64 posts not one person has asked if he needs or wants any contact with a friendly native????????

Meli
12-08-2012, 05:11 AM
See post 50 , and I think there's a few more :)

The Bigfella
12-08-2012, 05:21 AM
He'll be fine there Barney. His brother tells me he's heard his first shooting somewhere nearby there... two shots, sirens, someone crying.

Meli
12-08-2012, 05:49 AM
Yer, my nephew spent 3 months interviewing the families of those on death row in Texas for the DPIC and a couple of interviews with the condemned and their council. He was 23.
tough being a tourist innit ?

Dan McCosh
12-08-2012, 02:11 PM
Sure, but then why just Hispanics, why not Poles, French.Like us, your population was created from many different lands and cultures. Why single out one group? surely they are just Citizens. One group isn't singled out. The historic picture is that the census was necessary because representation the legislature when the U.S. was founded was apportioned by population. The existence then of slavery of Africans created another issue--they couldn't vote, but slave states wanted to use them to gain representation in the count. Thus began the business of determining what race,or whatever, was being counted. More recently, the census has taken on the role of acting as a central source of various demographic and economic statistics. It uses the central authority to count the population every 10 years, and has expanded it to acquire lots of other information useful to everybody from ad agencies to politicians, to academics. This is mainly gathered by asking those being counted to fill out a voluntary form with information including their ethnicity and race. Hispanic is particularly vague, as it includes people from many places, who mainly speak Spanish, but can come from any country and be of any race. It's up to the person to say what they think they are. They do ask to identify in a variety of categories. I don't think country of origin, let alone a country or two back, is on the list. FWIW, Australia has 58 census question compared to the U.S. with 10. They do ask ethnic identify.

skipper68
12-08-2012, 08:47 PM
"Default Re: Opening my son's eyes - living in the LA ghetto

gawd talk about thread drift. Ian was talkin' about his young bloke in your country and in 64 posts not one person has asked if he needs or wants any contact with a friendly native???????? "
Umm..yup?

LeeG
12-09-2012, 01:10 AM
"Default Re: Opening my son's eyes - living in the LA ghetto

gawd talk about thread drift. Ian was talkin' about his young bloke in your country and in 64 posts not one person has asked if he needs or wants any contact with a friendly native???????? "
Umm..yup?

Give me a break. If Ian wanted assistance/contact for his son he would have solicited it. Any young person able to afford a few weeks here or there is able to makes choices, like an apt. in LA "ghetto" or any other domicile in a coastal setting for the same price in nicer settings.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
12-09-2012, 06:44 AM
Generally I would never in a million years ask my kid that age to be a Friend on FB. They need some privacy.

Precisely - which is why I am not liked to my 17 year old son's page.