Taxed enough already? Nope

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  • Gerarddm
    #RESIST
    • Feb 2010
    • 32443

    Taxed enough already? Nope

    Despite their complaints, most Americans in 2010 paid far less in total taxes — federal, state and local — than they would have paid 30 years ago, according to an analysis by The Times.



    So much for the basic premise of the Tea baggers...
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.
  • Breakaway
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2007
    • 28419

    #2
    Re: Taxed enough already? Nope

    Well, the article compares people making 200K or more to people making 25K or more. Leaves a lot of wiggle room for the rest of us.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

    Comment

    • John Smith
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2009
      • 48656

      #3
      Re: Taxed enough already? Nope

      I don't think people understand taxes. They just don't like paying them. Tax rates are low in historical terms.

      The upper income rates are 35%. Under Ike they were over 90%. No one paid 90%. They had "loopholes" that let them deduct stuff so they paid a final rate of maybe 75%. Those loopholes included creating the job my dad had at an electronics engineering plant. He grossed, maybe, $10k. After his taxes and such he kept maybe $7k with which to raise his family. The guy in the 90% bracket was KEEPING $200k after his taxes and stuff. We had a couple of those people on our block. They had summer homes, yachts, and drove big cars which they bought new every year. They had people to maintain their lawn and keep their house clean. One had a cook. Oh yes, their homes were quite large, but dwarfed by the ones a half mile away up in the "rich" area.

      Our economy is not that hard to understand. It is based on the middle class, and the the poorer class, spending money buying things. It helps a lot if those things are made here.

      Under the hgher tax rates of Ike, the wealthy created jobs which paid well, so all the employees could consume. As they consumed by eating out or buying new things, the money trickled up to those paying the high taxes. Money kept circulating. The tax code "pumped" the money down to the middle class who spent it so it trickled up to the wealthy. Wages, benefits, etc. were all tax deductions, and they all helped the rich guy pay a lower actual tax rate, and allowed for a more prosperous middle class to consume more and have more money trickle up to the guy that opened the factory in the first place.

      This system seemed to work well for the country and after our WWII debt was paid, the GI bill funded, and the interstates built, upper income tax rates came down. They were, as I recall, 70% when Reagan took office. He cut them to 35%. Donald Trump was a much saner guy back then and he did an interview where he said the new rate made him just pay the taxes. He no longer had an incentive to do anyting to get deductions, and those things he did to get deductions generally created jobs.

      Another thing that happened was outsourcing had begun. This is where, if you look at the charts, the disparity between the rich and the middle class starting growing rapidly.

      All these things are connected.
      "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

      Comment

      • Reynard38
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 12533

        #4
        Re: Taxed enough already? Nope

        Just did the math. Fed, state and payroll (not including ad valorum auto taxes, gas tax or sales tax) so far this year amounts to 25.5% of my income.
        I don't complain about the rate. I recognize the need. However I don't like how they piss it away. Also don't care for the fact they can't make ends meet with 1/4 of my income.
        Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

        Comment

        • Waddie
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 9106

          #5
          Re: Taxed enough already? Nope

          John Smith; I don't think people understand taxes. They just don't like paying them. Tax rates are low in historical terms.




          regards,
          Waddie
          I started with nothing and I still have most of it....

          Comment

          • Canoeyawl
            .
            • Jun 2003
            • 37683

            #6
            Re: Taxed enough already? Nope

            During the Reagan Revolution the tax rate fell from seventy per cent to twenty-eight per cent. When took office, the national debt was nine hundred and thirty billion dollars, when he finished it was 2.6 trillion.

            source

            Comment

            • Kaa
              Wanderer
              • Sep 2006
              • 13503

              #7
              Re: Taxed enough already? Nope

              A useful chart:




              This is the average effective tax rate of the top 1% of taxpayers. Source: http://www.baldingsworld.com/2012/11...e-romanticism/

              Kaa

              Comment

              • Soundbounder
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2008
                • 3639

                #8
                Re: Taxed enough already? Nope

                Originally posted by Waddie



                regards,
                Waddie
                While Federal income tax rates have certainly lowered, the taxes on property, social security, and state have often increased.

                I find it interesting though, that your calendar includes social security and corporate taxes.....especially social security.
                Because when arguing that "47% Don't Pay Taxes", social security taxes are never acknowledged.

                For example, in another post you wrote:
                Almost 50% of our fellow citizens don't pay any federal income taxes. They are working alright...but you generally won't owe any tax on a $10 per hour job and a family of four.




                See what you've done ? When your argument is that wealthy Americans and businesses are paying too much in taxes, you include Social Security in your example. When your goal is to portray working class Americans and the poor as freeloading moochers, you ignore Social Security

                Now, I think an argument can be made either way concerning this. What you can't do however, is include social security as a tax when it supports your argument, and exclude it when it doesn't.
                You need to make a decision and stick with it.
                Last edited by Soundbounder; 12-01-2012, 06:30 AM.
                http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

                Comment

                • Soundbounder
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 3639

                  #9
                  Re: Taxed enough already? Nope

                  Originally posted by Breakaway
                  Well, the article compares people making 200K or more to people making 25K or more. Leaves a lot of wiggle room for the rest of us.

                  Kevin
                  These interactive charts accompanying the story divide incomes into $25k brackets. 0-25k; 25-50k; 50-75k...etc

                  Compare how much Americans paid in federal, state and local taxes over the past three decades.
                  http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

                  Comment

                  • Soundbounder
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 3639

                    #10
                    Re: Taxed enough already? Nope

                    Compare those figures with that of today, when a Democrat is in the White House, nearly half of Americans think their taxes are too high, and both parties are promising to keep taxes low for all, or, in the case of the Democrats, 99 percent of Americans: In 2011, federal government revenue was 15.4 percent of G.D.P., lower than it was at any time during the Eisenhower or Reagan eras. Like anorexics, who think they are grossly fat when they are very thin, the American body politic is suffering from a national version of body dysmorphia, with nearly half the country believing taxes are high, when they are comparatively and historically low.
                    American conservatives have won the political debate on taxes, convincing Americans that they pay too much when the reality is government revenue as a percentage of output is at a historical low.
                    http://soundbounder.blogspot.com/

                    Comment

                    • hanleyclifford
                      low information voter
                      • Jun 2010
                      • 9272

                      #11
                      Re: Taxed enough already? Nope

                      We need to tax more so we can give away more free stuff.
                      Conferences at the top level are always courteous. Name calling is left to the foreign ministers. (Averell Harriman)

                      Comment

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