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stromborg
11-23-2012, 05:32 PM
As I gear up for a 2013 and beyond full of sailing the Salish Sea I find myself contemplating how the park the boat. We've got a lot of small round barnacle covered rocks impersonating beaches on Bainbridge (as opposed to the soft sand of my Southern California youth) so the idea of dragging Kayli Marie above the tideline isn't very appealing. Since starting to sail up here I've pretty much been sailing off docks, as a kid I just dragged my Naples Sabot over the sand, so the whole anchoring thing is new to me. I think I've got a handle on making sure I've got enough scope but it's the hardware that has me scratching my head.

The question I have for you more experienced camp cruisers is what type of anchor have you found best? Do you carry more than one? How about suggestions on how much chain to use for the 14' Kayli Marie? What am I not thinking of that I should be?

Steve

Hunky Dory
11-23-2012, 05:41 PM
I like the small round mini mushrooms if I am not leaving the boat unattended as I keep it with the rode in a bucket. It is out of the way and doesn't take up any more room than the bucket that you should have with you anyway. If leaving overnight or I would probably use a small Danforth type but make sure it is set . For a small boat I use about 3' of chain.

StevenBauer
11-23-2012, 06:13 PM
Your fellow PNW sail and oar types have covered this pretty comprehensively recently in the Rowan and Barkley Sound threads. I would have more than one anchor. Three or four feet of chain. And a spare rode or two.


Steven

TerryLL
11-23-2012, 06:23 PM
Cloths line anchoring has been discussed here a few times. For anchoring off a cobble beach with significant tidal swings and wave action it's the best way to save your bottom.

I sailed the area you're talking about for years and also points north up the IP as far as Sitka and found the Danforth anchors are a good multipurpose anchor. I carried two 13-pounders with 20' of chain and 200' of line, but my boat was larger and heavier than yours. I'd definitely recommend two anchors if you have the room or are planning an extended cruise, and at least a couple 200' hanks of line. Floating line is better for the cloths line system as there's less chance the line will get hung up on the bottom, which usually necessitates a very cold swim.

BBSebens
11-23-2012, 06:54 PM
General consensus is a danforth style anchor as a primary hook. Most places that we beach tend to be the sandy beaches between the large rock faces. These beaches usually offer good holding for a danforth, plus they don't take up a lot of room, which is important. I also carry a little 8lb. mushroom, because you just never no, and 8 lbs. in the bottom of the boat doesn't hurt.

I repurposed a plastic flower pot to hold may anchor. I cut little notches in the rim to accept the anchor shank and fluke rods, and a bungee around keeps the whole works secure.

Ian McColgin
11-23-2012, 09:31 PM
A Danforth is neigh on useless on large shingle to rock. I'd use a fisherman. You can stow it with the flukes across the bow gunnels and the stock folded.

If you carry lots of anchor line and a spare anchor - choose a different type from the fisherman, maybe a danforth, so you can plant whichever will work better out deep - you can set the two up on a long loop, one anchor off and the other ashore. That way you can pull the boat away from shore for the night and bring her back in in the morning.

Join the ends of the line with a sheet bend, leaving the plain bent side long enough that you can secure the tail to the boat with enough scope.

G'luck

Gib Etheridge
11-23-2012, 09:48 PM
My seven pound Danforth with 10' of 5/16 chain has never slipped on me. Thats with a welded aluminum boat (1100 lbs.) with a 650 lb. 100 HP outboard and lots of gear riding on it, and for about 16 years with that boat now.

I have one of those little 4 fluke folding anchors for the smaller boats and it does slip from time to time.

chas
11-23-2012, 10:40 PM
I don't know about Bainbridge, but if you are cruising the Salish Sea in small boats you will mostly want to anchor off the mouths of creeks/ low areas that channel runoff etc. These areas generally have a mud bottom; Danforth works for this. The heaviest anchor that you can manage and reasonably stow is the one. The folding grapnel anchors are handy when you are nearby and for the shingle beaches you describe in your OP. They can drop in holes in rock and become irretrievable from a small boat. I know this somehow; no chain on my small boat anchors. / Jim

gilberj
11-23-2012, 11:32 PM
At least two, or better three anchors probably in the 8 to 15 pound weight. Danforth are good as are CQR plow and Bruce anchors. Fisherman and Northill are better in really rocky bottoms, but I tend to avoid those places. My rule of thumb for chain is the length of the boat. A friend bought one of the new plow typed, said to be better than anything else. He tested on a sandy bottom, and he could not even pull the line tight......Rowing /sailing boats can tuck into all sorts of little nooks and crannies and a clothsline moorings can be a real benefit.

Nicholas Carey
11-23-2012, 11:48 PM
General consensus is a danforth style anchor as a primary hook. Most places that we beach tend to be the sandy beaches between the large rock faces. These beaches usually offer good holding for a danforth, plus they don't take up a lot of room, which is important. I also carry a little 8lb. mushroom, because you just never no, and 8 lbs. in the bottom of the boat doesn't hurt.

I repurposed a plastic flower pot to hold may anchor. I cut little notches in the rim to accept the anchor shank and fluke rods, and a bungee around keeps the whole works secure.

Real Bruce anchors tend to work pretty well around these parts.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/38/Genuine_Bruce_anchor.jpg/800px-Genuine_Bruce_anchor.jpg

Good luck finding a real one sized for a 14-foot daysailer, rather than some made-in-china-crappy-knockoff, though.

Rocna anchors from NZ are supposed to be good, too, for these parts.

http://www.rocna.com/

Yeadon
11-24-2012, 12:43 AM
Here's what I carry on all trips:

A) 10 lbs fisherman, 10 feet of quarter inch chain, 100+ feet of 3/8th line for a rode.
B) 400+ feet of quarter inch three strand line for a clothes line, two 3 inch galvy or bronze rings, one float, 50+ 3/8th line for a lead to a tree. Search for Kurylko's clothes line system for details.
C) Anchor buddy, yellow in color

Others prefer a Danforth, or other details, but it's the skipper's call.

Ian McColgin
11-24-2012, 01:19 AM
The Danforth is a fantastic mud anchor and a very good sand anchor. It will often fail to penetrate grass or kelp bottoms and looses its grip as you graduate from sand to pebble. Once the bottom is shingle the Danforth will rarely set. That's why I did not recommend it for stromborg. However chas, who clearly writes from local knowledge, mentions a fact that serves people looking for good holding on rocky coasts like Maine as well - get in some kind of gentle runoff area like from a creek or marsh and you may well find enough mud over the ledge to give your hook some bite.

My remarks about making a long loop so you can off-load and then pull the boat out to deep water and pull her back in when you want to go is on the assumption that you're not sleeping aboard, or that you otherwise want to visit the hard brown stuff around the edge.

I would place no confidence in the little mushroom that, often vinal coated, is really just a stream anchor for fishing or hanging out.

I'd suggested a fisherman type because it will work on a wide variety of bottoms once you've learned to use it and because, as I described, it can be stowed in the bow of an open boat. For the larger boat, I use CQRs or a Bruce but they have stowage problems unless you can mount a roller to hold them.

Two anchors gives you some latitude and a Danforth and a fisherman would make a nice selection. Even on a rocky beach, you can get the Danforth secure as the shore end of your loop since you can manually bury it or wedge it in some rocks or whatever and you can then extract it all without going for a swim.

G'luck

Gib Etheridge
11-24-2012, 01:51 AM
I always toss the anchor then reverse until it grabs very well. That doesn't always happen on the first try. If I just tossed it and left the boat I would have had to go looking for it long ago.

Sometimes I don't have a dinghy but want to get ashore but leave the boat anchored out. First I go ashore and remove whatever I'll need on the beach. Then I tie off one end of a 200 foot line to something unmovable ashore.

Then I row/motor back out and toss the anchor, which is on the end of 50 feet of floating line with a float on the other end, and set it well by puling back towards the shore on that 50' line.

Also attached to the anchor shackle is 40 feet of the largest size surgical tubing, it's about 1/2 or 5/8 inch OD. It's not easy stuff to tie because when it stretches the knot/bend will sometimes slip, so I pass it through the shackle twice, tie a bowline with a 6" tail and work it down as snug as I can get it then stretch it out a bit and lash the tail to the standing part of the line with lots of tight and stretched electrician's tape. This is best done at home ahead of time where you can put the shackle in a vise and stretch with one hand while wrapping (serving) the tape with the other hand. I tuck the tail end of the tape under the last wrap and work it down snug so it won't begin to unwrap later.At the bitter end of the surgical tubing there's a carabiner tied and served in the same way. I take a couple of turns around something on the boat and snap the carabiner around the standing part of the tubing, then toss the floating line with it's float over the side.

Next I go forward and pull myself ashore, eventually stretching the tubing . Once the tubing starts to stretch and before I get ashore I belay the line that I'm towing myself in with. That determines where the boat will return to once I get out on the beach and the surgical tubing pulls it back out. Now I pull myself ashore and jump out. Actually, these days I just climb out carefully.

When I need to retrieve the boat I just pull it in, stretching the tubing, belay, then load the boat, then release the line from the immovable object, get back in the boat and let the tubing pull me back out. I haul the anchor with the "safety" line, the one with the float.

It takes a bit of practice to get this right, you need to be able to judge where to toss and set the anchor and still have enough stretch to get ashore at high tide while at the same time be far enough out that the boat won't be dry at low tide. It's not that hard. Surgical tubing will stretch to 3 times it's length.

chas
11-24-2012, 12:00 PM
Steve, in reference to the S. Cal upbringing (I too am a child of sandy beaches and warm ocean water), the most important anchoring equipment around here will be your high-topped rubber boots! :D My little Cartopper lives afloat so gets used plenty, beachcombing as exercise. There are many places where you may setup a short-term anchor, or even throw the hook on the beach if you have an offshore breeze, and step out in six inches of water on your way to the beach. The various clothesline methods are for more extended periods when you are dealing with tide ranges.

I use the folding grapnel anchors for this, contrary to my previous post, since corrected. Mushroom anchors are for moorings only, in my opinion. / Jim

stromborg
11-24-2012, 12:28 PM
Thanks for the feedback.

I've got a smallish danforth with 6' of chain that I picked up at a yard sale last summer, I'll have to throw it on a scale to see what it weighs but somewhere in the vicinity of 7 pounds I'd guess. It makes sense to have options, I'll start looking for a fisherman-type too.

One of the things I need to work around is that KM is partially decked, lots of room to store stuff but not as easily accessed as on an open boat.

Steve

Jamie Orr
11-24-2012, 01:20 PM
Thanks for the feedback.

I've got a smallish danforth with 6' of chain that I picked up at a yard sale last summer, I'll have to throw it on a scale to see what it weighs but somewhere in the vicinity of 7 pounds I'd guess. It makes sense to have options, I'll start looking for a fisherman-type too.

One of the things I need to work around is that KM is partially decked, lots of room to store stuff but not as easily accessed as on an open boat.

Steve
I sail a Chebacco, I don't usually beach her but I anchor a lot in the "Salish Sea" so FWIW here is my setup. I've used an 8 lb Danforth with about 17 feet of chain as my primary anchor for 12 years and have never had a problem. I also carry a 25 lb take-apart fisherman but I've only used that two or three times. Both anchors and rodes stow under the floorboards in the cockpit.

The Chebacco is decked except for the large cockpit. Both my anchor rodes run from the cockpit through a loop (a dinghy boom bail) on the stemhead, with the ends brought back to the cockpit. I drop the anchor from the cockpit, belaying the rode to the midships cleat, and only have to go to the bow to grab the bight of the rode to recover the anchor. If sailing off a lee shore I will haul from the cockpit and let the anchor dangle off the bow until I'm clear.

Jamie

PS Have a look at http://www.members.shaw.ca/jamie.orr/ since you'll be in the area...

Eric Hvalsoe
11-24-2012, 03:02 PM
Cheap plow was a disaster for me. 5 lb danforth has worked fine. Seems like small fishermans are harder to find. Relatively speaking our boats are like feathers (I think even compared with Jamies's). It does not usually take a hell of a lot of mass to anchor a feather. I use about 10 feet of chain, that will help keep things on the bottom. I've also got a little folding job for a lunch hook. Some day might go to a floating clothesline. 400' - often but not always way more than enough, flaked in my forepeak.
How much does your boat weigh?

from HV 16 thread,
forepeak lightly loaded

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8187/8129702744_47ff35dfe6_z.jpg


Full on camp cruising load from bottom to top of forepeak -

*Several hundred feet of 1/4" clothesline, flaked directly into forepeak area
On top of small baseplate which keeps frame ends from being snagged, smallest niches clear
*Clothesline float (boat fender)
*Anchor rode and chain (about 10 ft of chain)
*5 lb danforth anchor
*Anchor Buddy, short term for keeping the boat off the beach
*extra fender or two for rolling boat on beach
*pulley kit for shore end of clothesline
*small graupal anchor for 'lunch hook', beach hook
*100 ft cheap poly extra line

don't forget a lead line

stromborg
11-24-2012, 06:37 PM
My guess is that my little danforth (it is an actual danforth too, says so on the stock) weighs in about 5 lbs. Interesting that Mr. Yeadon has a similar sized boat and 10 lbs of anchor on 10 feet of chain.


This morning started out really poorly but I was out with my girlfriend looking for a distraction when she suggested we follow some signs to an estate sale. Fortunately I agreed. What do I spot right off the bat but a big old danforth (model S920) and a heavy duty little hand sewn duffle bag.

http://stromborg.smugmug.com/Boats/Deer-Isle-Koster/KDI/i-n7dZRXQ/0/XL/2012%2011%2025%20001-XL.jpg

There were some bits of line and the gimbled drink holder poking out of the top of the bag, no price tag. The seller wanted $12 for both but took my only tenspot instead.


Inside the bag:

http://stromborg.smugmug.com/Boats/Deer-Isle-Koster/KDI/i-GHMQ9kr/0/XL/2012%2011%2025%20005-XL.jpg
All this stuff was in a collection of old paper bags in the bottom of my new ditty bag. I already have a left-handed palm, but I may be just ambidexterous enough to sew right handed too. The caulking iron means I'll also need to build something to caulk.

Steve

Ben Fuller
11-24-2012, 07:08 PM
I've switched from a Danforth to a Bruce for life in the oft rocky coast of Maine. The 13 pounder stows just right fluke up in a drywall bucket into which its rode and fathom of chain is first flaked. The 4 pounder stows in the same way in a black rubber livestock bucket. Both buckets have the bails cut off and replace by rope. When I was useing a danforth I had a local sailmaker make an anchor bag just long enough to take the long skinny bits of the anchor, relatively narrow and high enough to that the shank could get lashed to the carrying handle. Anchor was dropped in on top of the rode, making a neat package that did not beat up the boat.

Don Kurylko
11-25-2012, 02:28 AM
Below is the mooring system I developed for myself back in the late 70's and early 80's when I did most of my beach cruising in a 17' Whitehall. It is your basic clothesline and can be adapted easily to any type of cruising ground. The key to this particular variation is the order of deployment and retreival. This takes a lot of the guess work out of the process and greatly simplifies handling the gear.

I used a 15 lb fisherman as the primary anchor. It never failed to set and never dragged. Only once did I have trouble retreiving it when I anchored in a cluster of boulders. That’s when I decided that a retreival line might be a good addition to the system.

My wife, Sanda, and I cruised our little skiff all around the Salish Sea from as far south as Port Townsend up to the vicinity of the Yuculta rapids in the north; on both the mainland coast and Vancouver Island side. Our longest voyage was 3 months long in the summer of 79.

During all those trips we did not often find ideal sand or mud bottoms to anchor in. We actually prefered to avoid most popular anchorages in favour of tiny little nooks and crannies well away from the usual crowds. Mainly because we also preferred to set up camp ashore rather than sleep aboard (the boat was not really well set up for that).

This required an anchor and mooring system that could be set in virtually any kind of bottom imaginable and most often in gravel, rock or even kelp. The fisherman never let us down and it is the only anchor that I would consider for a trip up the Inside Passage to Alaska. You just never know where you will have to drop the hook or for what reason.

I strongly feel the anchor should be relatively heavy too. I would not feel comfortable with anything lighter than our 15 pounder for wilderness cruising under sail and oar alone without the back up of an outboard motor. One’s life might depend on it and I’d want a good “all purpose” anchor that can work its way into a wide variety of bottoms. As Eric says, these S&A boats are pretty light for the most part and it doesn’t take much to hold them in place, but there is always that one severe squall that can come from a totally unexpected direction that can test your set up to its very limits and completely ruin your day if it fails.

The Mooring System:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh267/DHK-YD/Random/MooringSequnce.jpg?1276234384


In practice, the mooring is laid out in the following manner:

1. Inside the boat, fake down in order: the tripline (secure the bitter end!), the anchor, the chain and rode, the endless loop and the shore line, so that they will run out smoothly without fouling.

2. Row up to shore and have the crew tie off the shore line to a tree or large rock, or, if single-handed, use a folding grapnel tossed from the boat.

3. Row out from shore paying out the endless loop, the rode and the anchor chain until only the anchor and trip line remain on board.

4. Lower the anchor to the bottom, taking care not to foul the rode, and pull the whole system taut by rowing hard against the trip line.

5. Coil up and tie off any excess floating trip line to the estimated maximum tide level, plus a bit for the current. If traffic is likely to be a problem, regular, non-floating, nylon or dacron line can be used in place of the polypropelene to avoid fouling other vessels. This can then be attached to a bright, highly visible buoy and allowed to hang down out of harms way. A bit of reflective tape on the buoy will also help to enhance visibility at night.

6. Row back to shore and attach the bow painter to the endless loop with a well secured rolling hitch that won't come undone or slip. The boat can now be hauled out to the float safe from rocks and shells. A kerosene anchor light can be used to mark the boats position at night.

7. Heave in on the system as hard as possible from shore to set the anchor. This is probably best done before the boat is hauled out to the mooring. The shore line is then re-attached to the endless loop with a secure rolling hitch to stop it from running out and is tied off to a tree or a well set grapnel to complete the two point mooring. Make sure the endless loop is accessible above high-water. Some adjustment will be required to accommodate for the tide, because the lines will tighten up when it's high and slack off when it's low. Proficiency comes with practice and it won't take long to get the hang of it.

8. To weigh anchor, the whole procedure is simply reversed. Once carefully faked down in the locker again, the system will be ready to go at the next anchorage.

Ian McColgin
11-25-2012, 07:28 AM
Don has drawn the system I atttempted to describe except I leave out the single line to the float. Rather, when tying off the long loop of rode, I use a seat bend with a tail on the plain loop side as long as thrice the water depth above the anchor. The bitter end of that I attach to the boat. I pull out till either I'm happy she's out enough or till the sheat bent runs into the anchor chain. I secure the shore side with a hitch pulling on the bottom part of the rode, leaving as slack as may be on the part that goes to the bend and thence to the boat.

I like that the illustration shows a trip line to the fisherman. Not only is it essential if you anchor on a boulder field, but it makes any raising of the anchor easier. I just use cheap polypropolene for the trip as it floats and you need no seperate buoy.

G'luck

photocurio
11-25-2012, 08:46 AM
I don't know where folks are finding small fisherman anchors. The smallest I've seen for sale is 25 lbs. Maybe a blacksmith can forge you a custom anchor. My family had a 25lb fisherman on our 23' Stone Horse, and it never failed, and we sailed for years between Buzzards bay and Penobscot bay. We had no chain on our anchor either; we just shackled a fat nylon rode to the anchor ring.

Of the easily available, high quality anchors in small-boat sizes, there are limited choices.
* Danforth. Get the hi-tensile, which is expensive. This comes in 5 and 12 lb sizes. The 5 is only big enough for light rowing and sailboats. It doesn't work in large stones or rock, but holds beautifully in sand and mud.
* The Bruce. This is the best all-around anchor. Its available from Lewmar inexpensively as the Claw. These are 'Chinese knock-offs', but they seem to work just fine. I used an 11 lb Bruce for years in Puget Sound with a Caledonia Yawl and an Oday Daysailer, it never failed me. I had maybe 12' of 1/4" chain on it, and 3/8" rode. You can get Claw anchors in smaller sizes, right down to 2 lbs, which might be good with dinghys/kayaks, etc.
* Lewmar's Delta. This is a simplification of the classic CQR, without the hinge, and is highly regarded. Its available in 9lb and14lb. Its more expensive than the Claw.

On my current boat, a 21' Drascombe Longboat, I have an 11lb Claw and a 5lb Danforth hi-tensile. The Danforth came with the boat and is clearly undersized. I need to replace it with a bigger anchor. If I could find a 15 lb fisherman I'd buy it.

stromborg
11-25-2012, 09:54 AM
Don,
That drawing is the best explanation of the clothes-line system I've ever seen.

My latest anchor is "rated" by Danforth for a 20' boat in 20kts of wind, I guess she'll do fine for my 14 footer. I'll keep my eyes peeled for an alternative (fisherman, claw etc) too. Now to figure out the best way to store all this in my boat.

Steve

BBSebens
11-25-2012, 01:15 PM
http://stromborg.smugmug.com/Boats/Deer-Isle-Koster/KDI/i-n7dZRXQ/0/XL/2012%2011%2025%20001-XL.jpg

There were some bits of line and the gimbled drink holder poking out of the top of the bag, no price tag. The seller wanted $12 for both but took my only tenspot instead.


Inside the bag:

http://stromborg.smugmug.com/Boats/Deer-Isle-Koster/KDI/i-GHMQ9kr/0/XL/2012%2011%2025%20005-XL.jpg
All this stuff was in a collection of old paper bags in the bottom of my new ditty bag. I already have a left-handed palm, but I may be just ambidexterous enough to sew right handed too. The caulking iron means I'll also need to build something to caulk.

Steve

SCORE! I bet there's $50 of stuff there, in retail prices.

That anchor is probably perfect.

Don Kurylko
11-25-2012, 09:16 PM
Here are a few suppliers of fisherman type kedge anchors:

Kingston Anchors, Canada. Beautiful Herreshoff types, but expensive at $225 for a 15 pounder.
http://www.kingstonanchors.com/

Washington Chain in Seattle used to carry kedge anchors of all sizes, but no longer listed on their website. It would be worth a phone call to see if they still have some kicking around. Their prices were excellent way back when.
http://wachain.com/

Heres a source in California that might be worth checking out. Kedge anchors at $2.40 per pound!
http://www.blueoceantackle.com/marine_supply.htm
http://www.blueoceantackle.com/kedge_anchor_dimensions.htm

And over in the UK:
http://www.woods-group.co.uk/chain.htm

andykane
11-25-2012, 11:28 PM
Real Bruce anchors tend to work pretty well around these parts.

Good luck finding a real one sized for a 14-foot daysailer, rather than some made-in-china-crappy-knockoff, though.



Lewmar makes a 2lb and possibly a 1lb "claw" anchor which is their version of the Bruce. I have a 2lb one for my 12' dinghy and it seems to work pretty well considering how tiny it is. Not sure where it's made but Lewmar is at least a reputable company. I was under the impression that the original manufacturer no longer makes anchors, at least in remotely suitable sizes.