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esdren
10-24-2012, 11:18 PM
Im in the process of building a small 10ft skiff and am looking for a reasonably priced paint and primer. The boat will only see the water maybe 2-3 times a month and will be stored in my garage when not in use. For what Im looking at Ive been told to use exterior latex paint but wondering if anyone has experience with the brands from neighborghood stores(HD, Lowes, Ace, OSH etc). They all have various brands but Im curious what brand would be best, especially as far as primer goes. Looking for Paint and primer in the $30-$50 dollar range.


Its AC ply and pl glue, total investment thus far is $175 so Im not looking to break the bank on paint

David G
10-24-2012, 11:25 PM
Latex paint is, indeed, cheap. And it's blessedly easy to clean up. For small boats, though, my experience is that it doesn't hold up nearly as well as some oil-based paints. For budget jobs, I prefer an oil-based enamel labeled as "Porch & Deck" paint. These formulations seem to stand up to moisture and abrasion a bit better than a similarly based wall enamel. I've found such paints to be nearly as inexpensive as a latex enamel, and sometimes more so.

Nicholas Carey
10-25-2012, 12:04 AM
If you're painting a 10 foot skiff, how much paint are you going to use? a quart of primer and one of gloss?

How much do you really save?

esdren
10-25-2012, 12:44 AM
Im savign enough to make it worthwhile to me. If you dotn have any useful information to contribute upon these lines then I would appreciate keeping the criticism to yourself

pipefitter
10-25-2012, 01:10 AM
Rustoleum is good paint and I saw that at Home Dep but I think it was white only. Surely the paint dept could tint it. Other than that, Sherwin Williams has always been good. What I like most about oil is it's easier to clean hand prints and scum off after the fact. I also like the fact that as oil enamel ages, it hardens and sands well to a feather edge which is notable when it comes time to repaint when blending in damage, chips etc.

My favorite exterior enamel used to be Benjamin Moore's Impervo exterior alkyd and that's what we always painted our boats with and it always stayed on and covered well and was competitively priced.

jsjpd1
10-25-2012, 01:28 AM
I like Rustoleum too, lots of basic color options at my hardware store.

pcford
10-25-2012, 03:16 AM
Im savign enough to make it worthwhile to me. If you dotn have any useful information to contribute upon these lines then I would appreciate keeping the criticism to yourself

Love people that come in ask a question and then insult the person who takes the time to answer it.

esdren
10-25-2012, 04:30 AM
His response made no attempt to answer the question at hand instead opting to criticise me for even posing such a question. he made no useful contribution to the question and therefore I asked that he not continue to post fo rthe sake of posting and ill ask you to do the same.


As far as the rustoleum at HD, are you referring to the garage floor sealant? or the actual exterior paint? what kind of primer have you used as a base? Ive also seen the Deck and floor paint there as well. I actually used it recently when I repainted my grandfathers back porch. Would this be effective on the exterior as well as the interior? Im pretty sure we have a sherwin williams nearby, and theres a kelly moore literally aroudn the corner. Havent looked at what they have yet though

Bob Adams
10-25-2012, 06:01 AM
Regular, touted for use on metal, Rustoleum. Durable, glossy, many colors available.

Brian Palmer
10-25-2012, 11:07 AM
I've used the Sherwin Williams SWP brand of alkyd/oil-based paint on boats and canoes. They can tint it to any color you want and will also be able to sell you a compatible primer. About $16 per quart.

SW also has some generic looking "industrial" alkyd/oil-based paint in several premixed colors, but they may only be white, black, and "safety red." I used the red on a fiberglass canoe I refurbished and it is holding up fine and looks good, too.

These are good quality paints at a reasonable price. Unless you are painting a real yatch where finish is really a super high priority, or have some sort of extreme environment, there is no reason you should feel that you are cutting corners by using them on your skiff, instead of coatings sold as yatch or marine finishes.

Brian

Draketail
10-25-2012, 11:14 AM
I used dark grey, light grey, and red Sherwin Williams industrial enamel on the inside of Miss Sue and white Benjamin Moore oil based exterior house paint on the outside. The contractor pirce for Shwrwin Williams was about $50/gallon. The Benjamin Moore was a bit higher. Can't tell you about durability as she was launched 3 weeks ago. But she sure looked nice for her debut.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8319/8062529587_f633371842.jpg

wizbang 13
10-25-2012, 11:18 AM
Are you building the skiff of cheap ply that you want to last?
" 2 or 3 times a month " is plenty to de lam a ply boat .
stored in a garage is good, but only if the inside is bone dry. no leaves, pine needles, wet towels.
the best paint will not save a poor vessel
junky paint is not good for a fine boat
I use Ben Moore Impervo in artwork that I do, it is the finest alkyd enamal i have used, but i do not use it on a boat. And frankly, it is not cheap.

David G
10-25-2012, 11:47 AM
His response made no attempt to answer the question at hand instead opting to criticise me for even posing such a question. he made no useful contribution to the question and therefore I asked that he not continue to post fo rthe sake of posting and ill ask you to do the same.


Yes... Porch & Deck paint will work for both the interior and exterior of your boat.

Sorry... I saw no criticism. What I saw was an experienced hand offering a bit of perspective. Then I saw a newcomer getting prickly.

If his input was not useful to you... so be it. No reason you can't examine it for utility, and quietly discard it if there is none. Also no reason to snark back. Your request that he stick to the topic is actually the first off-topic response. That response also suggests that you did NOT bother to examine his contribution for utility, but simply 'reacted' instead... though I can only speculate.

In the future, I'd suggest that you treat all such gifts with the respect that you'd like your request for help to be treated with (unless they are so hugely and egregiously obnoxious as to not be ignored). Though... if that were to be the case... someone else would quite likely point it out for you. Being prickly will only lead folks to ignore your future posts, and you'll be left getting iffy advice from the inexperienced, eccentric, and ignorant amongst us (HI Dumm).

ScottO12_3
10-25-2012, 11:48 AM
I love, love, love Valspar tractor & implement (high gloss oil enamel). And who doesn't want a boat in John Deere green? Or International Harvester red? :)

esdren
10-25-2012, 05:40 PM
i found rusto at HD but only in the couple premixed colors and none that i Like. i did find a brand called Devoe High performance coatings at Meeks. They had quite a few different types of coatigns withy a wide price range but one type was Devguard4306 which is touted as a rust preventative enamel that looks really similar to rusto and is around the same price. Anyone have any experience with it?


Neith er SW nor Kelly Moore really had any exterior oil based paint because of Californias VOC regulations. So unless the devoe will work out it looks like im going back to latex. Ive used glidden, behr and valspar for various outsdoor projects on my house, doghouse and tortoise house and all 3 brands have held up will, of course this none of this was in a submerged area so i dunno

Bob Adams
10-25-2012, 05:45 PM
Sure. We use Devoe industrial coatings at my plant all the time.Good tough alkyd based paint.

esdren
10-25-2012, 06:16 PM
have you used the rust preventative specifically? What kind of primer would you suggest to get it bonded to the wood? and do you think rusto would bond to it for the trim?

Dan McCosh
10-25-2012, 06:21 PM
The basic chemistry of oil-based paint makes it superior to water-based formulas. The latter can equal the performance, but those that do tend to be pricey. Low-cost, traditional oil-based enamels usually are pretty good, but are disappearing due to emissions regulations. For a small boat project, I'd go for the oil base.

Garret
10-25-2012, 06:24 PM
I have a boat that gets used similarly that has had Rustoleum for 4 years. Still looks good.

I'll add that your rude comment to the "how much will the paint cost" post almost made me not reply. It, in fact, was a completely valid comment. Top quality yacht enamel will cost you a total of maybe $25 extra for your boat (if that). You will spend 4+ hours painting it - so 5 or 6 bucks an hour savings.... Guess your time ain't worth much to you.

Why did I use Rustoleum? It was already painted with that & extra came with the boat.

Donn
10-25-2012, 06:43 PM
Don't let the snots of the forum get you down, esdren. Your reply to Nicholas was no more rude than his response to your initial question. It's a bad habit many of the 'experts' of this forum share. Rather than simply answer your question, they feel called upon to comment on your purposes, motivations, behavior, techniques and such. As you can see, however, you got many good straight answers.

I'll add a vote for Rustoleum. I live on a saltwater canal, and use it extensively. It's lasts a good long time, and is really easy to find when I need more.

kc8pql
10-25-2012, 06:47 PM
I love, love, love Valspar tractor & implement (high gloss oil enamel). And who doesn't want a boat in John Deere green? Or International Harvester red? :)

Or Both!

I also agree about the snarky reply. If you want help here, that's not the way to get it.

CharleyMac
10-25-2012, 08:08 PM
I have used Kirby's and Rust-Oleum product under the trade name of Rust-Oleum Topsides I believe that Kirby's is a "better" paint (more body better coverage Etc.) but for the high wear areas where re-coat is a more frequent event the Rust-Oleum is much more convenient, readily available and less expensive.

My application is a Chopper gun over plywood flats boat and the casting platforms and areas of the sole experience a significant amount of wear from foot traffic.

CharleyMac

esdren
10-25-2012, 08:09 PM
Unfortunately there arent any retailers in my area that carry tintable rustoleum or has a decent selection of colors in oil based rusto to choose from. Any other suggestions?

As far as my snarky comment......Ive already explained my position. Im not using Marine grade paint, doesnt matter why. Im done discussing it

kc8pql
10-25-2012, 08:31 PM
^ So am I. You're on your own now as far as I'm concerned.

Nicholas Carey
10-26-2012, 12:36 AM
Don't let the snots of the forum get you down, esdren. Your reply to Nicholas was no more rude than his response to your initial question. It's a bad habit many of the 'experts' of this forum share. Rather than simply answer your question, they feel called upon to comment on your purposes, motivations, behavior, techniques and such.

There no criticism implied. A 10 foot skiff, traditionally built, is probably $1000 in materials. Good lumber isn't cheap. Not to mention the labor you put in.

And good paint is expensive, regardless of whether it's yacht paint or not. North of $70/gallon for something like good-quality Benjamin Moore or Sherwin Williams alkyd enamel. Benjamin Moore's long oil "penetrating" alkyd primer is something like $15-20 per quart. Good alkyd topsides paint is, granted, more expensive...in the neighborhood of $30/quart.

In the quantities needed for a 10-foot skiff, one's saving maybe $25-$35, tops. Compared to the investment in the boat in the form of cash and labor, that's pretty small change. Skip a night at the pub and make up the difference.

esdren
10-26-2012, 12:56 AM
A 10 foot skiff, traditionally built, is probably $1000 in materials. Good lumber isn't cheap. Not to mention the labor you put in.

Now that you have specified where you are comign from I understand your initial statement and apologize for my "snarky" response. However you are operatign under incorrect assumptions.

This is not a $1000 boat. AC ply, PL adhesive and brass screws. Right now with all materials purchased minus paint and some of the hardware Im at $155. Total budget is $300. Down the road if/when I decide to build a really nice boat then hell yeah ill use the best stuff I can find to protect my investment...but this isnt that boat

andykane
10-26-2012, 01:38 AM
I've used Behr "high" gloss exterior water based paint on quick and dirty dinghies and been pretty happy with it. Really, if you go get any exterior paint you should be fine for your purpose. The higher gloss and the porch/floor paints tend to be harder, which is good. The water based paint seems to require a bit more frequent recoating, but there are no fumes, and cleanup is super easy.

After a year of fairly heavy use and being stored under a tree on a beach, the fir plywood dinghy below with the behr waterbased paint was holding up pretty well.

I've used a marine enamel from a local paint company (cloverdale paint) on my better boats and it is more durable but thanks to new regulations oil based paints are pretty much unavailable here now, so I'll probably go water based next time. Strangely, I can still buy nice and toxic brightsides, easypoxy, or even red lead paint at the marine stores, but no paint stores carry the oil based stuff any more.

http://ochaye.strangepics.net/gal/gal/2006-05-05%20Careening/IMGP1953.JPG

GregW
10-26-2012, 07:27 AM
http://www.rustoleum.ca/cbgimages/products/ps_trem_tint_wb_masstone_378L.jpg

Last May I bought a can of this stuff. I put three coats on a piece of cheap pine 2x4 and left it out in my local boat yard to get in everyone's way - with the idea that it would spend the summer being kicked around. 6 months later after much abuse it still looks good. I'm going to let it spend the winter outside just to see what it will look like next spring. They also a sell a primer, which I should have used. BTW it can be tinted.

wdbeyer
10-26-2012, 08:17 AM
Do you have any building supply salvage places near you? I have 3 locally. I just scored a gallon of Sherwin Williams Industrial gloss white enamel for $9 for my sharpie build. I've gotten west epoxy and Rustoleum indutrial enamel there as well. Whenever I have time I stop in and see what they have.

Tom Lathrop
10-26-2012, 08:20 AM
I was going to suggest Rustoleum but really have no time for jerks like you.


His response made no attempt to answer the question at hand instead opting to criticise me for even posing such a question. he made no useful contribution to the question and therefore I asked that he not continue to post fo rthe sake of posting and ill ask you to do the same.


As far as the rustoleum at HD, are you referring to the garage floor sealant? or the actual exterior paint? what kind of primer have you used as a base? Ive also seen the Deck and floor paint there as well. I actually used it recently when I repainted my grandfathers back porch. Would this be effective on the exterior as well as the interior? Im pretty sure we have a sherwin williams nearby, and theres a kelly moore literally aroudn the corner. Havent looked at what they have yet though

Bob Cleek
10-26-2012, 01:26 PM
Unfortunately there arent any retailers in my area that carry tintable rustoleum or has a decent selection of colors in oil based rusto to choose from. Any other suggestions?

As far as my snarky comment......Ive already explained my position. Im not using Marine grade paint, doesnt matter why. Im done discussing it

Be careful, now. When you're "done discussing it," is when we start "discussing" you! :D

"Marine grade paint" is really a misnomer. While some paint manufacturers cater to the marine trade, fact is, paint is paint. The "boat on the can" doesn't make any difference at all. Unfortunately, because of a lot of really stupid regulations, you do sometimes have to pay a small premium for "marine" paint because it has become increasingly difficult to source good paint otherwise. Apparently, the demands of the marine environment make this market segment one of the last markets for old time quality coatings.

Right you are, to a point. I live in the SF Bay Area and oil based paint of just about any type is unobtainable except "with a boat on the can" at WasteMarine, which I suppose gets away with it because it is a "marine" application. It's extremely frustrating. That said, there's always mail order, or, depending on your location, you can drive outside the Air Quality District jurisdictions and pick up the "real stuff" in any hardware store. Any decent oil based (alkyd) paint, such as Rustoleum, is fine. "Tintable" Rustoleum is simply WHITE Rustoleum. Rustoleum apparently sells their paints pre-colored. In the good old days, every manufacturer simply sold white paint and left it to the painters to tint that by eye. Now, when paint is sold for later tinting, the manufacturers provide computer controlled tint dispensers which guarantee (almost) uniform colors that match the color chips they put out. Find a "real" paint store that sells white oil based enamel and have them tint that. Rustoleum tints just fine. (Of course, oil based tints must be used with oil based paints.) Ask them to tint your white Rustoleum. They should have no problem doing so.

If that isn't possible, you should seriously consider buying oil based marine enamel from a chandlery or mail order. Don't expect chandleries to stock much in the way of premixed colors. If you want color, buy from George Kirby or similar suppliers. http://www.kirbypaint.com/ (Color chart on their website.)

This stuff costs about $30 a quart, plus shipping, but is relatively economical for the following reasons. 1) It is a "high solids" formula that is thicker than other paints. Thinned out and properly condiditoned for application, it will cover better than "thinned in the can" paint sold in big box stores. Thus, you get a lot more coverage than out of a quart of the "cheaper" stuff. 2) It will last longer than the "cheap stuff," sometimes two or three times as long, meaning again that over the life of the boat you'll use less of it and spend less on paint. 3) It's a lot easier to use and much, much easier to refinish. Most water based coatings employ latex solids (what's left on the surface when the water evaporates). Sanding rubber isn't a particularly pleasant enterprise. Oil based paints use "chalk-type" solids which sand readily, providing a smooth surface for finish coats and resulting in a much nicer finish.

"Expense" is a relative concept. As is "green." The regulators who follow the fads, wringing their hands over VOC content and the impact of fumes from drying solvents on Global Warming fail to realize that often their outlawing "polluting" substances is a self-defeating enterprise. It makes little sense to outlaw a "dirty" coating that lasts three times as long as a "green" one that has only half the "carbon footprint" (or whatever they measure it by) of the "dirty" option. Over the same lifespan of the painted item, the "green" coating is actually much more "polluting" than the "dirty" one! (Frankly, I think a lot of this is only the paint manufacturers scheming to sell more paint!) Don't be "penny wise and pound foolish." You'll really save a lot in the long run using good coatings. From a broad perspective, as expensive as boat building materials are, they are the least of the cost of a boat when labor costs and maintenance costs are considered over the useful life of the vessel.

Now, if you are "done discussing it," go, and sin no more. You can paint your boat with monkey snot for all anybody really cares. It's your boat, but since you asked, we gave you an honest answer.

esdren
10-26-2012, 02:59 PM
Thank you Bob. Ive heard nothing but good things about Kirby's, but how long does it take to be more cost effective than latex or Rusto, 5, 10 years?. I would have to order primer, and at least a base color and trim color and maybe another for the interior of the boat, not to mention shipping costs and any ammendments I would have to purchase to modify the paint so Im guessing total cost would be around $150 or so at the low end? This is my first time building a boat and if my first attempt last me 5 years Ill be tickled pink so would it really be cost effective to make that large of an investment in paint?

As I stated in a previous post, If I was making a really nice vessel that I planned to keep for the next 10-20 years then Ill spend what I need to to make sure ive protected my investment, but this is not that boat

Brian Palmer
10-26-2012, 03:11 PM
The disadvantage with latex paint is not the cost of the coating, but the problem in that it cannot be sanded as easily as conventional alkyd coatings when the time comes to refinish. It's rubbery, so you cannot get as smooth a finish.

You can get Rustoleum mailed to you anywhere in the US from here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BZTJT2/ref=s9_simh_gw_p60_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0JD4DFPCE72BZEY4FCKG&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846

Bob Cleek
10-26-2012, 06:33 PM
Yea, for a "quick and dirty" boat (no offense intended), like I said, any decent oil based enamel should be sufficient. You won't go wrong with Rustoleum. If the boat is plywood, your money would be better spent on a good sealer than anything else. (e.g. CPES) Remember the first purpose of paint is to protect the wood. Plywood really needs very good sealing if it is to last in any sort of wet environment... even "marine" plywood, which is these days pretty much to plywood as "marine" paint is to paint. (Plywood adhesives have gotten pretty good over the years.)

pcford
10-26-2012, 07:14 PM
Right you are, to a point. I live in the SF Bay Area and oil based paint of just about any type is unobtainable except "with a boat on the can" at WasteMarine, which I suppose gets away with it because it is a "marine" application.

Only West Marine!! You mean there are no marine chandleries in the Bay Area?!!...when I was going to UC, there was a place called Johnson and Joseph in Jack London Square...

Another reason to be glad I don't live there anymore.

jimkeen
10-26-2012, 08:16 PM
I was going to suggest Rustoleum but really have no time for jerks like you.

Pettit Marine is OWNED by Rustoleum. A factory rep at one of the larger boat shows informed me that the Rustoleum MARINE, comes off the same line as Pettit Easypoxy. Look at the MSD sheets, Identical. The ONLy problem is with the color selections. It is limited to a few basic colors. I personally have found the oyster white to very appealing.
You can buy this stuff from Lowes for less than 12 bucks a quart.The catch is that it has to be a store close to the water. If not you can get it online from Lowes.
Hope this helps

Eight_Knots
10-27-2012, 06:23 AM
Howdy Doo,
My "Q" to this section of Boat Painter is.. Will Oil Base Paint ie ( Rust-O or brand X) bond with Epoxy Primed interior Plywd Walter Pile home built Boat, so named TITS.
dlj

wizbang 13
10-27-2012, 06:53 AM
here we go,
is this boat built yet Eight Knots?
Have you used epoxy primer on a boat made of interior ply?
by "epoxy primer", what do you mean?
"spensive paint on cheap boat is like cheap paint on 'spensive boat. makes no sense to me.
usually, pics help, but I do not want to ask for pictures of tits .
Are you in fear of esdren yelling at you?

kenjamin
10-27-2012, 09:53 AM
Definitely check out high-end paint stores for "returned" gallons of oil-based premium exterior house paint. I bought a returned gray primer for practically nothing and the guy gave me two gallons of finish coat for free. I used a third of each of those cans to mix together to get a third color. Spent under $20 and that's counting the gallon of mineral spirits I also bought. I may take back the paint to have them add some drying agents as the salesman said that was something I might want to do. I did notice that it took over 24 hours to dry but it dried to a very hard surface and I was pleased with that. I'm taking about the paint on the cans as I haven't painted the boat yet still got some gluing to do. :ycool:

http://www.bodaciousboats.com/colors.jpg

esdren
10-27-2012, 11:52 AM
I hate to do it, especially now that eight knots has posted a valid question, but since certain people cant get past me asking to stay on topic thread locked