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ljb5
10-05-2012, 10:58 AM
One little piece of good news for the president and Welch automatically assumes it's a lie.

That's what's wrong with the CEO class in this country.

They're so egocentric, so accustomed to getting everything they want, so used to pushing everyone else around that they simple cannot accept that, sometimes, the other guy gets a break.

It's bad enough that Welch is disappointed in good jobs news. But he has no call to impugn the integrity of our government.

A healthy mistrust of the government might be good, in moderation, but I'm not going to participate in this Republican fad of accusing anyone and everyone of treason just because they don't share your ideology.

Gerarddm
10-05-2012, 11:01 AM
Perhaps that is because the plutocracy is used to manipulating numbers, so they can not conceive others would not do so as well.

ljb5
10-05-2012, 11:06 AM
Jack Welch might hate Obama, but he must recognize that there are thousands upon thousands of decent people who work for the federal government and strive to do a good job because they love America and want it to succeed.

Boater14
10-05-2012, 11:43 AM
You know this just isnt done. Im a liberal and when the numbers make Obama look bad I say he's in trouble. When the numbers make him look good, they're fudged say the reeps. Very bad show. Anyone ever play tennis? Baseball? The ump calls the shots in or out. For all the fancy prep schools, the right are a bunch of sore heads.

Kaa
10-05-2012, 11:53 AM
...there are thousands upon thousands of decent people who work for the federal government and strive to do a good job because they love America...

ROFL... So federal employees strive to do a good job not because that's what they're paid to do, and not even out of basic human decency to do a good job if you can -- but because they love America! X-D

And, by the way -- those that do NOT do a good job, they do not love America, right? :-D

Kaa

ljb5
10-05-2012, 12:01 PM
ROFL... So federal employees strive to do a good job not because that's what they're paid to do, and not even out of basic human decency to do a good job if you can -- but because they love America! X-D

Yeah.

You got a problem with that?

Kaa
10-05-2012, 12:04 PM
Yeah.

You got a problem with that?

With what, you inventing things out of thin air and proclaiming them with great pomposity? Nah, it's funny, carry on... :-P

Kaa

ljb5
10-05-2012, 12:10 PM
With what, you inventing things out of thin air and proclaiming them with great pomposity? Nah, it's funny, carry on... :-P

Kaa

This thread is about Jack Welch inventing stuff out of thin air because he can't stand it when things don't go his way.

Republicans are a bunch of spoiled babies.

There are myriad reasons why federal employees strive to do a good job -- personal integrity, professional ethics, honesty, morality and love for the country are just a few.

Jack Welch, (not I) is the one who impugned their honest simply because he doesn't like the results of the BLS survey.

That's dispicable.

==================================

Republicans simply lack all honesty.

When they don't like science, they claim it's a fraud.

When they don't like economics, they claim it's biased.

When they don't like the CBO, they claim it's stacked against them.

When they don't like the Tax Policy center, they claim it's a sham.

Only a child goes through life thinking that everything must bend towards their will at all times. Adults recognize that sometimes you win, and sometimes the other guy catches a break. That's not bias. That's not unfair. That's reality.

Adults recognize reality. Children whine about it being "unfair."

Paul Pless
10-05-2012, 12:23 PM
One little piece of good news for the president and Welch automatically assumes it's a lie.

I think you're wrong. I think he knows the statistic is accurate from the BLS. I think he also knows all the BLS numbers and exactly what they represent. I think he's just refuting it for political purposes. I also think such tactics are beyond ridiculous and unethical. Dude's a piece of crap.

John of Phoenix
10-05-2012, 12:27 PM
This thread is about Jack Welch inventing stuff out of thin air because he can't stand it when things don't go his way.

During their heyday Jack Welch and Sandy Weill (CitiGroup CEO) were consided two of the great captains of capitalism. They were good friends but also great rivals who's companies happened to report earnings about the same time each quarter. At a company meeting in Phoenix, Sandy related a story where he and Welch were at a convention and Citi had just reported numbers. He walked by Welch's lunch table and said something like, "Did you see our earnings? Try beating THAT!" He said Welch laughed and said, "I can always find a few million somewhere." "And he did." Sandy added.

So sure, Welch thinks the numbers were jiggered because that's the way he ran GE.

Kaa
10-05-2012, 12:33 PM
I do like it how you followed my recommendations :-D


Republicans simply lack all honesty.

About half the country, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less, votes Republican.

Must be horrible to live a country where half the population "lacks all honesty" :-) Sure you don't want to emigrate? :-D

Kaa

ljb5
10-05-2012, 12:54 PM
About half the country, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less, votes Republican.


Yeah, and look at the junk they're liable to believe.

Saddam has WMDs and tax cuts pay for themselves and deficits don't matter and "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down" and dinosaurs are a hoax and scientists are frauds and economists are liars and pollsters are idiots and we need to give the rich another tax cut and Obama was born in Kenya and his secret father was a communist and his mother was a porn star and there's a secret tape that shows Michelle hates white people and God hates gays and the government has a secret death panel that's going to kill your grandma and on and on and on it goes. There are commies in government, Muslims in the State Department, terrorists in the White House, criminals in Congress and they all hate America and want to turn it all over to the United Nations so they can take away your guns and put you in a secret concentration camp that's hidden in Kansas and we all need a hero to tell us keep us safe and lower our taxes.

Man, what is wrong with you people? That's just crazy talk.

Hey, I've got a better idea. I get to stay in this country and you guys stop lying about everything, okay?

Kevin T
10-05-2012, 01:03 PM
Yeah, and look at the junk they're liable to believe.

Saddam has WMDs and tax cuts pay for themselves and deficits don't matter and "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down" and dinosaurs are a hoax and scientists are frauds and economists are liars and pollsters are idiots and we need to give the rich another tax cut and Obama was born in Kenya and his secret father was a communist and his mother was a porn star and there's a secret tape that shows Michelle hates white people and God hates gays and the government has a secret death panel that's going to kill your grandma and on and on and on it goes. There are commies in government, Muslims in the State Department, terrorists in the White House, criminals in Congress and they all hate America and want to turn it all over to the United Nations so they can take away your guns and put you in a secret concentration camp that's hidden in Kansas and we all need a hero to tell us keep us safe and lower our taxes.

Man, what is wrong with you people? That's just crazy talk.

Hey, I've got a better idea. I get to stay in this country and you guys stop lying about everything, okay?

Can anyone step forward and point out an item on the above list that was not said by someone associated with the Republican party, either member or leader?

Not likely would be my guess, but I would love to see it, nonetheless.

Kaa
10-05-2012, 01:26 PM
Can anyone step forward and point out an item on the above list that was not said by someone associated with the Republican party, either member or leader?

Oh dear Lord, what do you think a list composed of things "said by someone associated with the Democratic party, either member or leader" would look like?

Kaa

ljb5
10-05-2012, 01:29 PM
Oh dear Lord, what do you think a list composed of things "said by someone associated with the Democratic party, either member or leader" would look like?

Kaa

If you have the cards, lay them on the table.

Let's not practice the false equivalency of of assuming both sides are the same just because you can't stand the stench of your own side.

Kaa
10-05-2012, 01:31 PM
...they're liable to believe. ... and you guys stop lying about everything

Make up your mind, will ya? Either the Republican untermenschen believe it all, or they're lying about it. Don't think you can have it both ways :-)


That's just crazy talk.

LOL. Maybe you should listen less to Democratic agitprop and actually look at real-people conservatives. We have some in Bilge, right here. Do they fit your picture?

Kaa

ljb5
10-05-2012, 01:36 PM
As if on cue. Check out this idiot.


"All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang Theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell,” Broun said. “And it’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior.”

That's not just some guy off the street. That's an elected Republican. Paul Broun, from Georgia.


Maybe you should listen less to Democratic agitprop and actually look at real-people conservatives. We have some in Bilge, right here. Do they fit your picture?

The stuff I posted isn't Democratic agitprop. Those are Republican talking points, being spouted by real, live, Republicans.

And yeah... there are a lot of Republicans here who fit that picture perfectly. We've had people here repeat much, if not all, of that nonsense.

If that doesn't represent what you believe, you're in the wrong party.

I didn't make you a Republican. That's a choice you made for yourself. If you want to be in the party of nuts, that reflects upon you, not on me.

Kaa
10-05-2012, 01:41 PM
If you have the cards, lay them on the table.

Do I actually need to? Do you really think I'll have problems finding spectacularly dumb things said by people "associated with the Democratic party"..?

We can start with some Democrat congresscritter who was concerned that too many people on Guam would tip the island into the sea, take a look at Al Sharpton, etc. etc... and even the Bilge would provide good source material :-)

Kaa

Vince Brennan
10-05-2012, 01:42 PM
Oh dear Lord, what do you think a list composed of things "said by someone associated with the Democratic party, either member or leader" would look like?

Kaa

Instead of constantly sniping at the other posters, DO enlighten us with your astounding intellect and post something of substance yourself.

Not a C&P, not an alluded aphorism, but some actual statements which would rival LJ's posting.

You and the rest of your Crypto-Right posters seem to think that your postings will have aught effect on anyone on this Forum. All they do is open you to disrespect and derision as we read your tired old lies over and over. No wonder, when you are confronted with evidence of the lies and deceit that the Right Wing has elected to promulgate, you and your ilk immediately throw the maximum amount of dirt into the air to create yet another dust screen.

Heard the latest? Unemployment is now DOWN below 8%. Not MUCH below, but it's a By-God improvement and it's an indication that maybe the nasty little Commie whore-raised Kenyan non-citizen just MIGHT have known what he was about.

Well, I'm through with the lot of you until the bloody election is over. Then we'll have to endure four MORE years of your whining, probably about how the election was stolen from your candidate. HE, however, won't even notice that it didn't work.

YMMV... and I hope it does.


See you abovedecks.

Kaa
10-05-2012, 01:45 PM
If that doesn't represent what you believe, you're in the wrong party.

I didn't make you a Republican. That's a choice you made for yourself. If you want to be in the party of nuts, that reflects upon you, not on me.

LOL. Clearly you took my advice to carry on and continue inventing things out of thin air, not to mention pronouncing them with much pomposity to heart. :-D

So, can you explain to me (in simple words, please) how did you come to the conclusion that I have made a choice to become a member of the Republican party?

...'cause it looks to me like you're just lying :-D as usual :-P

Kaa

ljb5
10-05-2012, 01:47 PM
Do I actually need to? Do you really think I'll have problems finding spectacularly dumb things said by people "associated with the Democratic party"..?

We can start with some Democrat congresscritter who was concerned that too many people on Guam would tip the island into the sea, take a look at Al Sharpton, etc. etc... and even the Bilge would provide good source material :-)

Kaa

I'll grant you the one about Guam.

The rest, you're going to have to work for.

I'm not just talking about stuff from some guy off the street.

A lot of what I posted comes from your elected representatives.

Todd Akin, Michelle Bachmann, Paul Broun, Jim Inhofe, Mike Coffman, etc.

I'll throw in your Donald Trump, Rush Limbaugh and the whole crew at FOX. These are not just the fringes of your party. These are the people you pick as your leaders, your legislators, the people who craft your thoughts, your talking points, your platform and your agenda.

Kaa
10-05-2012, 01:48 PM
Instead of constantly sniping at the other posters, DO enlighten us with your astounding intellect and post something of substance yourself.

Not a C&P, not an alluded aphorism, but some actual statements which would rival LJ's posting.

I am not sure what do you mean by "something of substance" or "actual statements" -- could you clarify?


Well, I'm through with the lot of you until the bloody election is over.

...on the other hand it doesn't seem like you're interested anyway.

Kaa

Paul Pless
10-05-2012, 01:57 PM
Not a C&P, not an alluded aphorism, but some actual statements which would rival LJ's posting.


"When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened." –Joe Biden
I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.... I'm not joking
Stand up, Chuck, let 'em see ya.

I can go on. . .:d

ljb5
10-05-2012, 02:01 PM
On further consideration, that guy's comments about Guam were certainly very stupid, but I cannot see how that was related to any position or agenda of the Democratic party.

That's the difference: Republicans aren't just occasionally wrong about stuff. The ideology of the party is based on falsehoods.

The Republican party tried to hold up health care for 40,000,000 people because of their delusions about "Death Panels." That is not comparable to some guy talking about Guam.

Kaa
10-05-2012, 02:05 PM
The rest, you're going to have to work for.

Nah, you're mistaken about that :-D

But I'll throw in some Al Sharpton for fun and giggles :-)

“White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires…. We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.”

:-)


These are the people ... who craft your thoughts.

:-D Perfect!

It's really amazing what you believe leaders of political parties do. Personal experience, I guess, with your thoughts being crafted? :-D

Kaa

ljb5
10-05-2012, 02:06 PM
Paul, you're totally missing the point.

Joe Biden said "television" when he meant "radio." Okay, so that's one word. That's a slip of the tongue. So what?

But what does it mean?

Does being wrong about that one word change the entire purpose and agenda of the Democratic party?

No.

The Republicans, on the other hand, aren't just mistaken about a word or two---- they base entire parts of their party platform on the outright refusal to believe science.

They invade entire countries based on lies.

They vote against policies based on conspiracy theories.

That is not at all the same.

Jack Welch's comments were not a "slip of the tongue" or a poor choice of words. He actually said what he thought and that's much, much worse.



=================================

I am not talking about "gaffes" or a slip of the tongue. I'm talking about the basis of their beliefs. The reasons they give for supporting or opposing various positions. The stuff they think is important. The stuff they believe and/or want you to believe. The stuff they think changes elections and determines policies.

Can you understand that?

John of Phoenix
10-05-2012, 02:27 PM
I am not sure what do you mean by "something of substance" or "actual statements" -- could you clarify?

You're usually much better at your word games.

John of Phoenix
10-05-2012, 02:40 PM
Full of holes? Point out one .

ljb5
10-05-2012, 03:39 PM
Peffy seems to have lost his ability to address the topic.

What type of nonesense are you trying to get away with? The Republican party has no governing authority?

You're not playing word games again, are you, peffy?

The members of the Republican party routinely deny science, economics, logic and facts.... and you think think you can play some word games and throw out some insults and avoid discussing this?

That shows a terrible lack of integrity.


Politics ain't beanbag. People die. People lose their health insurance, lose their jobs, lose their money and lose their lives, partially due to the decisions our representatives make in Washington D.C.

When your representatives make poor decisions based on fraudulent information, real people get hurt.

Don't think you can be cute and play word games and pretend it doesn't happen.

Kevin T
10-05-2012, 03:40 PM
Yes Bud the GOP itself didn't invade a country, but it was GOP Pres that did on a completely fabricated reason WMD's and then had the infinite poor taste to look under oval office credenzas for WMD's in an attempt at humor for the WH Press Dinner.

Meanwhile Marines were dying in Iraq all the while we're told that it is only the GOP that cares about the troops.

"You're either with us, or you're with terrorists" feh!

So have at it, Kaa too, lets play the semantics game.

C. Ross
10-05-2012, 08:13 PM
I wonder if the DSM-IV has a classification for people whose self-worth is so dependent on dividing the world into two teams and aggrandizing oneself based on the deficiencies of the other team.

SMARTINSEN
10-05-2012, 08:53 PM
I wonder if the DSM-IV has a classification for people whose self-worth is so dependent on dividing the world into two teams and aggrandizing oneself based on the deficiencies of the other team.

I am not so sure that it is a mental deficiency so much as an innate part of the human condition.

ljb5
10-05-2012, 09:05 PM
I wonder if the DSM-IV has a classification for people whose self-worth is so dependent on dividing the world into two teams and aggrandizing oneself based on the deficiencies of the other team.

Isn't that precisely what you just did? :D

Have you ever noticed: whenever Republicans are backed into a corner by the facts, they accuse the other side of being "in love" with Obama or thinking he's the "Messiah."

Whenever the facts are against them, they act like it's a mental defect to adhere to the truth.

Don't try to belittle everything by making it about emotion.

This isn't about emotion. It's about respect for facts.

Today, I can pick up a newspaper and read that Republicans reject facts because they find them inconvenient.

ljb5
10-05-2012, 09:33 PM
Broad mop you have. You read what has already been conceived in your mind. You are in the same league as PMJ. Slinging Hash league.:D BTW, what Tabloid are you reading?:rolleyes:

This morning, it's Jack Welch disputing employment numbers.

This afternoon, it was a Congressman saying science is the work of the devil.

A week ago, it was some other guy disputing poll results.

Before that, it was Todd Akin disputing female physiology.

A year ago, it was James Inhofe disputing science.

Michelle Bachmann said vaccines cause "mental retardation."

This isn't tabloid stuff. This is what your party actually believes.

These guys have shoe polish for brains and you're in their party!

If that bothers you, you need to do something about it!

C. Ross
10-05-2012, 10:09 PM
Isn't that precisely what you just did? :D.

No.

Keith Wilson
10-05-2012, 10:12 PM
I wonder if the DSM-IV has a classification for people whose self-worth is so dependent on dividing the world into two teams . . Bipolar disorder. :d

John Smith
10-06-2012, 08:19 AM
One little piece of good news for the president and Welch automatically assumes it's a lie.

That's what's wrong with the CEO class in this country.

They're so egocentric, so accustomed to getting everything they want, so used to pushing everyone else around that they simple cannot accept that, sometimes, the other guy gets a break.

It's bad enough that Welch is disappointed in good jobs news. But he has no call to impugn the integrity of our government.

A healthy mistrust of the government might be good, in moderation, but I'm not going to participate in this Republican fad of accusing anyone and everyone of treason just because they don't share your ideology.

He sure looked stupid when he said he had no evidence. I don't think, however, we should lump all CEO's into his opinion.

John Smith
10-06-2012, 08:24 AM
I do like it how you followed my recommendations :-D



About half the country, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less, votes Republican.

Must be horrible to live a country where half the population "lacks all honesty" :-) Sure you don't want to emigrate? :-D

Kaa

I'm not sure what your point is. Those who deny evolution and global warming, those who believe dinosaurs and man co-existed, those who believe a woman can't get pregnant is she is raped, and those who believe tax cuts for the wealthy create jobs are all Republicans. Those people who want to put the government between a woman and her doctor are Republicans.

Why half the people believe this crap is beyond me. Maybe you can explain it.

John Smith
10-06-2012, 08:27 AM
Can anyone step forward and point out an item on the above list that was not said by someone associated with the Republican party, either member or leader?

Not likely would be my guess, but I would love to see it, nonetheless.

Only one has stepped forward with a Ron Paul quote in response to my challenge to point out a single thing since '92 the Republicans have predicted that they got right or something the represented as factual that's been true.

The silence speaks volumes.

John Smith
10-06-2012, 08:28 AM
If you have the cards, lay them on the table.

Let's not practice the false equivalency of of assuming both sides are the same just because you can't stand the stench of your own side.

Don't hold your breath. These are the people who told us Clinton's budget would destroy the economy.

John Smith
10-06-2012, 08:31 AM
Go get LJ and hold his hand. Both of you go down to the Welfare Office and apply for the Gov't Assistance for the Blind. The Republican Party has no military, no weapons, no governing authority, and at last look has never invaded any country. The Republican representatives in Congress have a hard enough time escorting their dim buddies around Washington keeping them out of trouble and on the path to "In God We Trust".

ridiculous.

John Smith
10-06-2012, 08:35 AM
This post will not hold water either. Are you unable to hold a reasonable conversation without exaggerations of this sort and lies. You have RDS and can't see your own party doing the same thing you accuse your devil as doing. All I have to say to you is Afghanistan and Drones. This conversation is old and rotten LJ. Unless you have something different than you and your blind partners have been saying for years, it's pointless to go on. I'm going fishing and you can steam til yo heart is content.

Same to you Kevin. Bush did nothing without Congressional approval and help from other countries, so go tell your partisan shinola to someone that doesn't know any different. You boys wanta join me I will be fly fishing Kalispell Creek, it will be good for you.

Bush did nothing. He did nothing when he got substantial warnings of an attack. You also assume, falsely, the congress sees the same security information the president sees. Actually the intelligence congress gets is filtered by the Executive branch.

I'm still wating of a list of things the Republicans have gotten right since '92.

Moreover, what does it say about those who look at this jobs report and instead of being happy for the middle class react through fear of its impact on the election?

I don't think this is their proudest moment.

Mrleft8
10-06-2012, 08:36 AM
Jack Welch might hate Obama, but he must recognize that there are thousands upon thousands of decent people who work for the federal government and strive to do a good job because they love America and want it to succeed.

I doubt that the thousands upon thousands of people who actually work for anyone even occur to Jack Welch, or most of the people like him. They're just leaves on the tree, in the forest.

hightop
10-06-2012, 08:49 AM
I'm not sure what your point is. Those who deny evolution and global warming, those who believe dinosaurs and man co-existed, those who believe a woman can't get pregnant is she is raped, and those who believe tax cuts for the wealthy create jobs are all Republicans. Those people who want to put the government between a woman and her doctor are Republicans.

Why half the people believe this crap is beyond me. Maybe you can explain it.

I don't agree with the "all are Republicans" The most out there dinosaur and evolution denyer I ever met was a rabid Democrat who worked at the Dept. of HHS. Approx 86% of all blacks lynched were lynched by members of the Democrat party. Do you then paint all Democrats with this brush? All political partys have a healthy proportion of nuts, by the way, I'm a Libertarian and we have more than our share!

Kevin T
10-06-2012, 09:13 AM
The history of the Southern Democrats (and their separation from the Democratic party) has been covered extensively in other threads, so there's no reason to go into that here.

I don't deny that you may have met an evolution denier who worked for the Dept of HHS, but there's a key difference here.

Can you explain in what way his (or her) beliefs about dinosaurs affected his (or her) performance of duties at the Dept of HHS?

That's the point I've been trying to get people to understand. Sure, there are a few nutty Democrats, but this does not form the basis of the party platform.

Republicans, on the other hand, actually base their political agenda, their votes, their policies, their talking points and their ideology on gibberish and hogwash.

Todd Akin isn't just some nut who disputes female physiology. He's a nut who sits (and votes) in Congress, and is on the Committee for for Science, Space and Technology.

He bases his policies and his votes on his crazy ideas.

Do you see the difference?

My guess is that difference won't be recognized for what it is, subtlety and nuance are just words in a big book that some call a dictionary.

Evidence this by the lynchings by southern democrats claim we hear so often. My guess is it is not the party that these southern lynchers belonged to, but was rather a function of a regional culture. There were northern democrats at the time and I don't see much reference to lynchings on the Boston Commons by Cambridge democrats during the same period.
In the pantheon of false equivalencies, this one is definitely in the top ten.

hightop
10-06-2012, 09:45 AM
Never said or meant to infer that it did have any effect on his duties, was just replying to the claim that only Repubs held such beliefs. Stop being so sensitive!

Besides, I only spent 2 1/2 years there. (HHS Parklawn) I'm not sure I ever met anyone in the whole 1.4 million square foot building who actually had any duties.

mariner2k
10-06-2012, 09:55 AM
Never too early to practice being a sore loser. I wonder what will happen when Obama wins. Stay tuned.

Ted Hoppe
10-06-2012, 10:05 AM
No one ever read his books, just bought them and said they did. Besides like Eastwood's, his are words of a man who has lost touch with most America. Had his hand in changing the nations industries and advocated outsourcing. It is hard to stand on a mountain and know first hand how the flooding happening in the valley.

PhaseLockedLoop
10-06-2012, 11:02 AM
Must be horrible to live a country where half the population "lacks all honesty" :-)

sad but true



Sure you don't want to emigrate? :-D
Kaa

It's the old "love it or leave it," eh? Brings back the old days when we '60s demonstrators got the same suggestion twenty times a week.

hightop
10-06-2012, 11:29 AM
Okay, fair enough.

But do you understand my point about the difference between a person who has a whacky belief and a Congresssman who votes according to his wacky beliefs... or an entire political party that adopts a political agenda based upon refusing to acknowledge science?

I mean.... I don't really care if my green grocer disputes science, but I do care if my urologist does!

Yes, I see the difference, but do you really believe the entire Repub. party shares these beliefs? Not trying to be smart, just curious.

Anyway, I just like to read these kinds of threads, both sides are drinking the Kool-aid, but it's just 2 totally different flavors, and that's where the entertainment starts. Besides, I'm not too vested in this election, since I live in MD, my vote doesn't matter no matter who I vote for in either the Presidential or Senatorial portion of the ballot. I think I'll just sit back and spectate from here, I just can't get myself worked up one way or the other.

Garret
10-06-2012, 01:19 PM
Must be horrible to live a country where half the population "lacks all honesty" :-) Kaa

Yeah, it sucks. Though it's not quite 1/2.

Keith Wilson
10-06-2012, 01:44 PM
Approx 86% of all blacks lynched were lynched by members of the Democratic party.Sigh . . . Do I have to explain this again? From the end of reconstruction after the Civil War until the 1960s, almost every white southerner was a Democrat. This was for historical reasons; Abe Lincoln was a Republican and after the war the radical Republicans in congress (yes, there used to be such things) imposed certain policies on the south which were deeply offensive to the whites at the time - horrifying things like voting rights for former slaves.

Thus after Reconstruction ended in 1877 and blacks were systematically prevented from voting, there was effectively only the Democratic party in most of the former Confederacy. It had a curious mixture (for today) of somewhat populist economics and reactionary social attitudes, especially on race. In the early 20th century, the parties were not divided along ideological lines as they are today. The Democrats had a liberal northern wing and more conservative southerners; the Republicans, while a bit more conservative overall particularly on economic issues, had a socially liberal New England branch and a more conservative western faction.

This all changed after the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s. When president Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act in 1964 he said that they'd lost the south for a generation; he was too optimistic. Nixon, never one to pass up an electoral advantage, invented the 'southern strategy' to convince conservative southerners to vote Republican. It worked. We now have a liberal party and an increasingly radical conservative party, divided along strictly ideological, and to a large extent also along regional lines.

Conservative southerners who were Democrats in 1925 are now Republicans - or, more accurately their descendants are.

Oh, and there is no such thing as the "Democrat Party" in the US. Its name is the Democratic Party. You can look it up.

hightop
10-06-2012, 05:01 PM
Sigh....No you don't HAVE to explain it again, you just choose to, it's lucky we have an elitist like yourself to educate ignorant souls like myself(and correct my spelling) BTW, looks like I also misspelled deniers. Shocked you missed that.

Still get a kick about how people can actually believe a politician from either side is worth a ****, considering what one must do and promise to get to be sucessful on the national stage of politics.

hightop
10-06-2012, 08:05 PM
We've seen this a million times on the forum.

Republicans always start out, "Republicans Rule! Democrats Suck!"

And then we have a thread like this where we actually talk about what the Republicans actually do, and they change to "Well, you know, there's no difference between the parties."

And then, on the very next thread, they start all over again: "Republicans Rule! Democrats Suck!"

And the cycle repeats.

And most of them, at one time or another, try to throw in something like, "I'm actually not really a Republican."

Do you really think you're fooling anyone?

Here's a litle truth for ya, they do both suck! If you can't see that, you should get promoted from Kool-aid drinker to Kool-aid maker!

wardd
10-06-2012, 08:25 PM
Yes, I see the difference, but do you really believe the entire Repub. party shares these beliefs? Not trying to be smart, just curious.

Anyway, I just like to read these kinds of threads, both sides are drinking the Kool-aid, but it's just 2 totally different flavors, and that's where the entertainment starts. Besides, I'm not too vested in this election, since I live in MD, my vote doesn't matter no matter who I vote for in either the Presidential or Senatorial portion of the ballot. I think I'll just sit back and spectate from here, I just can't get myself worked up one way or the other.

enough do that it's become their policy

hightop
10-06-2012, 08:54 PM
Sure, you say that now.... but this morning, you posted three times in defense of the Republicans.
Show me one post I made in defense of the Repubs. I guess to you, if someone suggests the Dems aren't perfect either, it's a Republican plot, as well as a personal attack you feel compelled to answer.
I'm done with this thread, you Dems. are too touchy for some reason, I always thought you were kooky and the Repubs. had a stick up their ass, but like the transformance of the Dems. after 1920 I was educated on earlier in this thread, I guess you've switched around again.

Glen Longino
10-06-2012, 09:00 PM
How many pro-Democrat/anti-Republican posts have you logged today?

Not enough!:D

Peter Malcolm Jardine
10-06-2012, 09:17 PM
Jack Welch might hate Obama, but he must recognize that there are thousands upon thousands of decent people who work for the federal government and strive to do a good job because they love America and want it to succeed.

Absolutely correct Lj, but some folks are not going to get it.

Ian McColgin
10-06-2012, 09:20 PM
What we get is the Republican total lack of sportsmanship and porportion. They actually would try to fiddle the numbers - I've seen it in a lesser scale on utility issues in state government from Republicans, never from Democrats - so naturally they instantly accuse Democrats of doing it.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
10-06-2012, 09:22 PM
Jack gets more leeway, in my book, than you do. He's done far more for society than you can ever hope to do.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA......

Yeah, Jack Welch, why he's a regular humanitarian. LMAO. Wow, one of your best posts ever.

Keith Wilson
10-06-2012, 09:23 PM
You deserve your position in life.My. Donn, you sure are acting like a grade-A schmuck.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
10-06-2012, 09:25 PM
My. Donn, you sure are acting like a grade-A schmuck.

Oh come on, for Donn this is mild behaviour. Over the years he has championed torture, and threatened to have another forum member hurt.


"You deserve your position in life"

He's just an old man with anger issues now.... well, besides being a helluva gardener, very well read, and some cool hobbies I mean ;)

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 09:37 PM
And what do you do for a living, judge?

Evidently something that allows you plenty of time to post political opinions to an internet forum. :rolleyes:

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 09:39 PM
You crack me up Donn! :D

Yer a pip!

Glen Longino
10-06-2012, 09:40 PM
My. Donn, you sure are acting like a grade-A schmuck.

So, what's new???????????????????????:)

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 09:42 PM
Let's count how many Forumite's opinions matter not a whit to Donn.

Nah... it would be easier to simply estimate percentages.

Glen Longino
10-06-2012, 09:43 PM
ROFL! A guy who spends his life on an Internet forum regurgitating political hogwash is "a very talented Senior Scientist"! ROFL!

And you call yourself "The Judge"?
What do you judge? Iris Shows? Hog Calling Contests? Troglodyte Rodeos?:DLMAO:D:D

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 09:58 PM
Plenty of time? You must be impressed by the significance of my few posts. I post fewer than a dozen or so a week. There are guys here doing many times that, you included. Don't you have anything better to do with your life?
But you aimed your criticism at ljb5 who posts about as often as you. :rolleyes:

FYI I double task. ;)

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 10:01 PM
I love it whenever a cranky right-wingnut sez, on a late-night weekend, that those who post opinions they disagree with are "stealing time and resources from their employer." :D

You crack me up, Donn! Never stop being you, brother!

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 10:09 PM
I dispute your numbers.

But ljb5 posts are easily ten times more informative and interesting than yours.

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 10:11 PM
While displaying about the same amount of attitude.

Glen Longino
10-06-2012, 10:13 PM
I dispute your numbers.

But ljb5 posts are easily ten times more informative and interesting than yours.


Heheh!:DLMAO:D Easily ten times!:D

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 10:14 PM
While displaying the same amount of attitude.

What a bunch of whiners. :rolleyes:

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 10:18 PM
'

Focus on the word "easily."

I'm younger, faster and smarter.

At this hour you can probably add "more sober" as well. It is no secret Donn likes his wine.

Oh! My bad. You were speaking to the judge, weren't you? So sorry.

Glen Longino
10-06-2012, 10:21 PM
You're a phony.

You're out of your Jurisdiction, Judge!!!!!!!!!:D
30 Days in the slammer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 10:21 PM
I'll admit to a mistake. I know that is an unfamiliar concept for you Republicans.

Glen Longino
10-06-2012, 10:22 PM
Look who's drunk now! :D

Take two aspirins and go to bed, Your Honor!!!!!:D

Tom Montgomery
10-06-2012, 10:45 PM
A lot of big talkers are posting tonight.

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-06-2012, 10:52 PM
That settles it. Democrats simply lack all honesty. :D

What reflexes. As soon as you read "Al Sharpton" you bit.
That's amazing.
For what it's worth Al has a history of blurting out outrageous things which is why he has never been elected to any public office.

Garret
10-06-2012, 11:16 PM
No, I said I was a firefighter in New York.

I never, ever, claimed that I was a NYC firefighter.

I'm not really sure which part has you confused.



I dunno. Seems like a lot of things don't come easily to you.

I love it!

Donn, I know the Island is removed from the rest of the state, but I'll try & keep it simple. New York City is a city in the state of New York. There are other towns & cities in the state of New York. Maybe even some close to you!

Do we need to go back to 2nd grade US geography?

Garret
10-06-2012, 11:38 PM
Which one do you suppose pays its firefighters less than a dollar an hour?

Well lots of towns (even in NY!) have volunteer fire departments. I used to be on an unpaid VFD & I make 10,000 time what I did then! ;)

Garret
10-06-2012, 11:40 PM
Go where you like Garret, you haven't been here long enough to know what you're talking about.

I haven't lived in the northeast long enough to know where NY is? Umm... I spent 15+ years sailing LI sound & have lived near Lake Champlain for over 30. Hint: NY borders both of them.

So - I'd say I have a reasonably good idea of where NY is Donn.

Ian McColgin
10-06-2012, 11:41 PM
In my Long Island VFD we bought our own personal gear so really pay was negative. But we were the coolest in the Fourth of July parade.

pipefitter
10-07-2012, 12:54 AM
Here's a litle truth for ya, they do both suck! If you can't see that, you should get promoted from Kool-aid drinker to Kool-aid maker!

Agreed. And anyone who isn't so obsessed, in which to actually hang out, day after day, in a media driven, political section of an internet forum, in pursuit of such outrageousness, might see this and even feel a little foolish about tipping toward one side or the other.
=================================================
As far as voting these Republican nutbags into office, many of these foolish things they are caught saying are AFTER they are already elected and I am not too sure, by what I see going on here, if they haven't lost their marbles from overexposure to rabid liberals. It isn't as if average Republican voters seek these whackos out. The other condition being that the Democrats that are running against them, are not getting the job done or offering up much better alternatives beyond a few abstract ideological points. Whoop-de-doo.

You don't think that as as a Democrat voter, ranting along on an internet forum, makes you folks look a little whacky, especially since there is more liberals here doing this? I have seen it said here by certain members of liberal persuasion, that they consider this to be "entertainment." WOW

Most sensible conservative or liberal voters won't be found here repeating the same horse chip that can be found across the internet. The more sensible conservatives helped vote Obama in. Or have you all conveniently forgotten that? You might ought to think about that before you go swabbing the entire party, or conservatism with your broad brushes.

If I have or would vote for Obama, or other Democrats I found worthy? I would never admit it to none of you, because you would think it was your constant preaching and berating that was the key, and I cannot or will not be an enabler to such perpetual dysfunction.

Most people are, and have been quietly wishing the lot of you would just STFU for a change so that we can actually hear/see what is really going on. As long as you keep being entertained by this, by all means. . .

David G
10-07-2012, 12:56 AM
I think you're wrong. I think he knows the statistic is accurate from the BLS. I think he also knows all the BLS numbers and exactly what they represent. I think he's just refuting it for political purposes. I also think such tactics are beyond ridiculous and unethical. Dude's a piece of crap.

Either that... or he's a fool. Age does creep up on the best of us. I'd be inclined toward your view, however:

http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/05/news/economy/welch-unemployment-rate/index.html?section=money_news_economy

It is rather remarkable how 'squealing like a stuck pig' has become so explosively popular with the right as a result of the latest jobs report. Welch wasn't the only one engaging in the desperate spin... just the biggest name, I guess --


Welch did not respond to a request for further comment. In an interview later in the day on MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#49307525), he admitted that he had no evidence that the jobs numbers were manipulated, but said they "defy logic."


Conn Carroll, a senior writer at the conservative Washington Examiner suggested a slightly less nefarious form of manipulation of the data.
"I don't think BLS cooked numbers. I think a bunch of Dems lied about getting jobs. That would have same effect," he tweeted (https://twitter.com/conncarroll). "Would love to see the partisan breakdown of the 873,000 Americans who say they got new jobs."

Ian McColgin
10-07-2012, 05:32 AM
"I think a bunch of Dems lied about getting jobs." [Conn Carroll quoted in #126]

Dude's delusional on so many levels, not the least of which is that the D's can't organize like that. But really, like Romney's talking, it's just more of the fact-free Republican universe.

John Smith
10-07-2012, 06:17 AM
Yeah, and look at the junk they're liable to believe.

Saddam has WMDs and tax cuts pay for themselves and deficits don't matter and "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down" and dinosaurs are a hoax and scientists are frauds and economists are liars and pollsters are idiots and we need to give the rich another tax cut and Obama was born in Kenya and his secret father was a communist and his mother was a porn star and there's a secret tape that shows Michelle hates white people and God hates gays and the government has a secret death panel that's going to kill your grandma and on and on and on it goes. There are commies in government, Muslims in the State Department, terrorists in the White House, criminals in Congress and they all hate America and want to turn it all over to the United Nations so they can take away your guns and put you in a secret concentration camp that's hidden in Kansas and we all need a hero to tell us keep us safe and lower our taxes.

Man, what is wrong with you people? That's just crazy talk.

Hey, I've got a better idea. I get to stay in this country and you guys stop lying about everything, okay?

They haven't gotten anything right since '92. Remember all the money spent investigating Clinton on things Starr cleared him of? Remember the week or so before the Starr report came out: Dole, Gingrich, Lott, DeLay, etc. and so on all came on the talks shows and told us they would NOT impeach if Starr's report only contained the Monica thing: they lied.

John Smith
10-07-2012, 06:22 AM
Republican fad? Maybe you are confused... did you mean .....a la John Smith?Party loyalty or treason? (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?151872-Party-loyalty-or-treason)



Wishing for a president to fail seems over the line to me.

John Smith
10-07-2012, 06:24 AM
I can go on. . .:d

Stretching a bit, no. I've posted before there is a huge difference between a mispeak, such a Biden saying television instead of radio. Or Obama's "you didn't built that" when he should have said "those", and simply stating as fact that women don't get pregnant behind a rape.

John Smith
10-07-2012, 06:31 AM
I don't agree with the "all are Republicans" The most out there dinosaur and evolution denyer I ever met was a rabid Democrat who worked at the Dept. of HHS. Approx 86% of all blacks lynched were lynched by members of the Democrat party. Do you then paint all Democrats with this brush? All political partys have a healthy proportion of nuts, by the way, I'm a Libertarian and we have more than our share!

I have always referenced my arguements as this side of '92. Today's parties are not the same as they were many years ago, so I'm trying to stick to recent times and opinions.

I can't think of a thing the Republicans have gotten right in so far as their predictions or statemtents of facts are concerned. But I'm talking the last couple of decades, and how the whackos have taken the Party over.

John Smith
10-07-2012, 06:45 AM
Yes, I see the difference, but do you really believe the entire Repub. party shares these beliefs? Not trying to be smart, just curious.

Anyway, I just like to read these kinds of threads, both sides are drinking the Kool-aid, but it's just 2 totally different flavors, and that's where the entertainment starts. Besides, I'm not too vested in this election, since I live in MD, my vote doesn't matter no matter who I vote for in either the Presidential or Senatorial portion of the ballot. I think I'll just sit back and spectate from here, I just can't get myself worked up one way or the other.

That's a fair question. I have two acquaintances who are not happy with the current Republican party, but they feel guilt if they don't vote for it. David Frum is a guy I used to view with some respect. He has openly admitted being very upset with the present state and direction of the his party. He'd like to move it in another direction. Yet, he plans to vote Republican, which only enables it to move in the direction he doesn't like.

If we go back 30 years, I had no particular party preference, I'd vote for the person. People used to say, "There's not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties." That's changed.

My view is pretty simple and straight forward. A patriotic American of any party's affilitation or preference, should view improving job numbers as good and be glad we are moving in the right direction. From my view we are moving in the right directing in spite of republican opposition. Had they put the country's needs above their desire to defeat Obama, unemployment might be down to 5%. They've spent their time and energy (and our tax dollars) voting multiple times to repeal the AFA and limit abortions. As Romney says, you can tell a lot about people by where they put their money.

My challenge to those here who are of a conservative/republican bent is to take a really good look at today's Republican Party and acknowledge that they've lied to you just as much as they've lied to me. They've been wrong about everything since Clinton decided to run. I ask you, this election, stand up and say you,re "mad as hell and not going to take it anymore." Vote democratic this election and send the Tea Party and the religious fundamentalists packing.

We don't need to take the country back. YOU need to take your party back. You cannot do that by enabling them to go down the path they are on.

I believe if Obama wins and a few Tea Party incumbants are voted out: Cantor, Bachmann, Akins, and such, it will create a more cooperative congress more willing to make concession to save the country.

John Smith
10-07-2012, 06:52 AM
Here's a litle truth for ya, they do both suck! If you can't see that, you should get promoted from Kool-aid drinker to Kool-aid maker!

to an extent you are correct.

Let's look at some recent history. Thanks to a budget in '93 that got not a single Republican vote, Clinton brought us a balanced budget, which he handed off to the next guy. The Republicans not only refused to vote for that budget, but they made a lot of predictions as to how it would destroy the economy: they were simply wrong.

While the Republican congress likes to take some credit for that, bob Novak's comments speak volumes, "Even in the middle of impeaching the man, they cave in on the budget and do it his (Clinton's) way." That may not be a precise quote, but I'm sure it's very close.

FF through the Bush years and look what he handed off to Obama after receiving what Clinton handed off to him. Our deficit is actually going down a bit. I just realized that a couple of days ago. GM is alive and Bin Laden is dead, and neither of those is thanks to Republicans.

John Smith
10-07-2012, 06:53 AM
How many pro-Democrat/anti-Republican posts have you logged today?

There seems to be a difference: the anti-Republican attacks have some evidence supporting them.

John Smith
10-07-2012, 06:56 AM
Your 'evidence' is nothing more than partisan spin, like you displayed on the Romney/Handkerchief thread.

Who do you think you're fooling?

HORSEFEATHERS

Is it partisan spin to point out Saddam had no WMD's? Is it partisan spin to say it is Republicans who make a distinction between rapes and tell us legitimate rapes don't lead to pregnancy? Is it partisan spin to point out that Republcian are passing laws putting the government between a woman and her doctor?

John Smith
10-07-2012, 06:58 AM
Show me one post I made in defense of the Repubs. I guess to you, if someone suggests the Dems aren't perfect either, it's a Republican plot, as well as a personal attack you feel compelled to answer.
I'm done with this thread, you Dems. are too touchy for some reason, I always thought you were kooky and the Repubs. had a stick up their ass, but like the transformance of the Dems. after 1920 I was educated on earlier in this thread, I guess you've switched around again.

Perhaps we get a bit emotional because while we admit neither party is perfect, they are no where near equal insofar as being "bad" is concerned.

hanleyclifford
10-07-2012, 07:03 AM
Looks like they're about equal on the RCP. At 1.4 Obama's lead is statistically insignificant. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html#polls

John Smith
10-07-2012, 07:09 AM
No, you don't. One needs not be a Republican to be anti-Obama.

You're so hung up on your partisan garbage, you've forgotten how to think. That's why you work for someone other than yourself, and steal his resources all day, every day. You don't have the ability to work for yourself.

I pity you...but not much. You deserve your position in life.

One doesn't need to be Italian to like Pizza.

I think some of us have a problem with those who are anti Obama because a great deal of the reasons they come up with are based in myths, rather than facts.

I am pissed as hell that we are still in Afghanistan. I think we should get our people out of there as fast as we can, and before Pakistan decides we can't truck them over their land.

I'm disturbed that we are not trying suspected terrorists in the district the crime was committed.

I have some problems with Obama. I had some problems with Clinton. I have to compare them, however, to the alternative, which in this case is Romney who reminds me of the con men frequently the subject of the series "Crime Inc."

Romney would have let GM die, but now takes credit for the idea that saved it. Romney would not have looked for Bin Laden, but says he'd have made the same decision to kill him Obama made. Romney said he would not accept a budget with $10 in buget cuts for every $1 in tax increases, but now says he wants a "balanced" approach. You could make a full length movie of Romney contraticting Romney. He won't be specific as to what deductions he'll get rid of, and he won't release more tax returns.

What we do know is no one one earh can cut taxes on everyone, increase defense spending, and balance the budget, which is what he promises.

The future of this country, if we are to have a decent one, IMO, requires some Republicans to stand up and tell Grover Norquist to take his pledge and shove it.

John Smith
10-07-2012, 07:13 AM
I've never thought of it that way.

I work for a corporation (not a "someone") because it allows me to work with other people, pool billions of dollars of resources and avail myself of the fruit of forty years of scientific research, which interests me.

It also allows me to do all the parts of the job I enjoy (research, development, communication, planning, etc), without doing any of that stuff I don't like, but would have to do if I worked for myself (accounting, sales, regulatory compliance) etc.

I'm a very talented Senior Scientist, but there's really no feasible way I could accomplish nearly as much on my own as I can by working for such a large and well-staffed company.

I'm really surprised that you would try to turn that around and make it sound like a bad thing.

You must have a very narrow view of the world. I mean, I can understand that many people like to work for themselves, but only a schmuck would assume that working for a company like mine is any disappointment.

I really, really like my position in life.

This reminds me of an Edison argument I used to hear frequently. It's been argued by many that Edison took credit for inventions people working for him invented.

What these people who argue that fail to realize is it was Edison that put all these people together and provided them with what they needed to experiment, compare notes, and come up with all those things. He provided the "infrastructure" that allowed all the great minds he assembled to flourish creatively.

John Smith
10-07-2012, 07:24 AM
I'm pretty sure I'm younger, smarter and faster than pretty much everyone here. (Although I don't know if I could take Joe on a bike).

I polished off that Balvenie a few nights ago. Donn's on the east coast, right? 11:30 on a Saturday night? That's pretty late for an old guy.

I got that Balvenie for the Ouray ice fest three years ago. Man, that seems like a long time ago. I wonder if Donn can climb?

These posts diminsh you. Boasting about being younger and smarter is foolish and degrading. I find it insulting and counterproductive.

I think you owe all here an apology for your arrogance: and I'm on your side.

Garret
10-07-2012, 07:34 AM
No soap. He said it was a JOB. A job that pays a 45th of what he makes now as a "very talented senior scientist". ROFL! Can't you tell when someone is blowing smoke up your skirt?

If you look at the end of my post, you'll see a thing called a smiley. They are used to tell someone reading the post to not take it seriously. The first part of it was a dig @ Donn for being a pompous a$$ & the 2nd part was a dig @ LJ.

Keith Wilson
10-07-2012, 08:41 AM
I nominate this thread, last night until around midnight, for "Worst Of The Bilge", with a special pink ribbon for Donn. And these are supposed to be adults. God help us, what a depressing exchange. http://forums.snapstream.com/public_html/ubb/frown.gif

SMARTINSEN
10-07-2012, 08:53 AM
I nominate this thread, last night until around midnight, for "Worst Of The Bilge", with a special pink ribbon for Donn. And these are supposed to be adults. God help us, what a depressing exchange. http://forums.snapstream.com/public_html/ubb/frown.gif

Lao Tzu said "In conflict be fair and generous."

That is all.

Keith Wilson
10-07-2012, 09:01 AM
And Jesus said; "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."

C. Ross
10-07-2012, 09:40 AM
I nominate this thread, last night until around midnight, for "Worst Of The Bilge", with a special pink ribbon for Donn. And these are supposed to be adults. God help us, what a depressing exchange. http://forums.snapstream.com/public_html/ubb/frown.gif

"Jack Welch ought to be ashamed" is such an ironic title for this thread.

Donn? I'd nominate the guy who pins ribbons on himself.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
10-07-2012, 10:29 AM
I love these threads. They always grind down to some strange comparison about education, occupation, and personal wealth.

I don't know very much about Lj. In the context of this forum, I don't need to, although it is my guess that we could be fast friends. What I look at in regards to his posts is the content, the accuracy of the facts, and the comparative logic of his arguments. Those qualities are extremely high in any subject he debates. Subsequently, it drives a lot of people who spend little time on any of those qualities bonkers.

Frankly, how much you like your life and what success you have had is, in my opinion, tempered by the ethics you use to conduct your life. In politics, that becomes a central issue for me. I like Lj's ethics, as I do Tom Montgomery's, Keith Wilson's..... you know who you are.

I do get confused by someone like Donn, who is a really bright guy, with expertise in whatever he focuses on. His outlook on life/politics/ethics seem to be a result of more personal experiences than logic and education. So it goes.

There are people I agree with here. There are people I really really don't agree with here, and I don't like their ethics either. There are people in the middle that, despite their politics, have lots of abilities I respect. I don't post any personal stuff here anymore, because the crazy nasty people would only play with it badly anyway. I also try to spend a fair bit of time reading and posting about the subject I came here for in the first place.... you know... Boats.;)

wardd
10-07-2012, 10:34 AM
Oh, I know!

You just spout Republican talking points all day and all night and demonize any Democrat you cross paths with.

Why should anyone think you're a Republican?!

Some days, it's nearly impossible to find a Republican on the forum. All day and all night, they fight, fight, fight for Republicans... and then it's, "How dare you assume I'm a Republican?!"

I get it! There are no Republicans on the forum! (At least none who will admit it.) Nothing here but centrists who like to act like Republicans.

Who do you think you're fooling?

romney is not a republican either

wardd
10-07-2012, 10:36 AM
No, you don't. One needs not be a Republican to be anti-Obama.

You're so hung up on your partisan garbage, you've forgotten how to think. That's why you work for someone other than yourself, and steal his resources all day, every day. You don't have the ability to work for yourself.

I pity you...but not much. You deserve your position in life.

just being against things doesn't make you a thoughtful person

truncated thinking

wardd
10-07-2012, 10:40 AM
My. Donn, you sure are acting like a grade-A schmuck.

grade-a schmuck = right wing

wardd
10-07-2012, 10:42 AM
No, you don't. One needs not be a Republican to be anti-Obama.

You're so hung up on your partisan garbage, you've forgotten how to think. That's why you work for someone other than yourself, and steal his resources all day, every day. You don't have the ability to work for yourself.

I pity you...but not much. You deserve your position in life.

didn't jack welch work for somebody else?

wardd
10-07-2012, 10:44 AM
I've never thought of it that way.

I work for a corporation (not a "someone") because it allows me to work with other people, pool billions of dollars of resources and avail myself of the fruit of forty years of scientific research, which interests me.

It also allows me to do all the parts of the job I enjoy (research, development, communication, planning, etc), without doing any of that stuff I don't like, but would have to do if I worked for myself (accounting, sales, regulatory compliance) etc.

I'm a very talented Senior Scientist, but there's really no feasible way I could accomplish nearly as much on my own as I can by working for such a large and well-staffed company.

I'm really surprised that you would try to turn that around and make it sound like a bad thing.

You must have a very narrow view of the world. I mean, I can understand that many people like to work for themselves, but only a schmuck would assume that working for a company like mine is any disappointment.

I really, really like my position in life.

actually we all work for someone else, that is if we don't print our own money

Garret
10-07-2012, 10:48 AM
grade-a schmuck = right wing

C'mon. That's BS & you know it. While I call signers of the Norquist pledge traitors - I know many RW folks who do not eat their young! ;)

Keith Wilson
10-07-2012, 11:01 AM
grade-a schmuck = right wingNah. That's a personality trait - or more charitably, a behavior - that's pretty evenly distributed. Plenty of blame to go around, myself included.

Perhaps ljb should just delete the thread. The way it's gone, it sure doesn't contribute much of value, except perhaps a as a warning.

wardd
10-07-2012, 11:08 AM
And Jesus said; "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."

how did that turn out for jesus?

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-07-2012, 11:38 AM
ljb5 easily posts ten times as much as I.

Thank God for small favors!

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-07-2012, 11:44 AM
No, no, no. I was making fun of some goofball who used those ridiculous words in post #8...his shoe on the other foot, though. Thanks for falling into my little trap. :d

Humor ain't your long suit, Judgy. And it ain't much of an alibi either. From here on just post the smilies and avoid any text.

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-07-2012, 11:54 AM
I nominate this thread, last night until around midnight, for "Worst Of The Bilge", with a special pink ribbon for Donn. And these are supposed to be adults. God help us, what a depressing exchange. http://forums.snapstream.com/public_html/ubb/frown.gif

I don't want to frighten you ,sonny, but what you read here may be an allegory of the state our country is in.

hanleyclifford
10-07-2012, 12:08 PM
I don't want to frighten you ,sonny, but what you read here may be an allegory of the state our country is in. Steady there, Cuyahoga; lot of football still to play and I perceive the velocity in the Bilge increasing as Obama's lead dwindles.

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-07-2012, 01:29 PM
Steady there, Cuyahoga; lot of football still to play and I perceive the velocity in the Bilge increasing as Obama's lead dwindles.

If you have any evidence Obama has lost even one electoral vote as of today and that Romney has gained even one now's the time to display your treasures.

C. Ross
10-07-2012, 01:44 PM
Donn was up well past his bedtime claiming to be "master of the universe" and bragging about having awesome capabilities that I couldn't even fathom.

And he tried to belittle my "position in life" for being employed in a major corporation, as if that's something to be ashamed of.

Did you not notice that, or not fit it into your narrative?

Poor thing! Isn't it awful when people try to say others aren't competent?

Paul Pless
10-07-2012, 01:48 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm younger, smarter and faster than pretty much everyone here. you left out dorkier. . .

mdh
10-07-2012, 02:22 PM
Education certainly doesn't translate into intelligence. Note the ones here who tout an education and their liberal/progressive politics. They ignore all the evidence of its racism and failure and declare outrage when common sense is spoken. I haven't heard, and can't imagine, anyone being disappointed that more people are finding jobs, but we do, however, realize that the 7.8 number is bogus. This administration has changed the method of calculating the unemployed to the point that it's hardly related to the real number. Hell, if your not drawing an unemployment check you don't count as unemployed. It was a month or two ago that a new list of tasks performed that could be counted as a job came out that was ludicrous. Our wonderful media didn't say much about it, but they're sure talking up the new number. To the gullible it sounds great, I'm sure. This guy has worked harder on his golf game than running the country (with about the same results I understand).

Romney for President, big bird for Thanksgiving, and jobs for everybody that wants one.

David G
10-07-2012, 02:33 PM
Some folks are ignorant. Some are deluded. Some are fools. And some... manage to pull off all three at once. That takes a certain talent, and some dedication!

Glen Longino
10-07-2012, 03:07 PM
Education certainly doesn't translate into intelligence. Note the ones here who tout an education and their liberal/progressive politics. They ignore all the evidence of its racism and failure and declare outrage when common sense is spoken. I haven't heard, and can't imagine, anyone being disappointed that more people are finding jobs, but we do, however, realize that the 7.8 number is bogus. This administration has changed the method of calculating the unemployed to the point that it's hardly related to the real number. Hell, if your not drawing an unemployment check you don't count as unemployed. It was a month or two ago that a new list of tasks performed that could be counted as a job came out that was ludicrous. Our wonderful media didn't say much about it, but they're sure talking up the new number. To the gullible it sounds great, I'm sure. This guy has worked harder on his golf game than running the country (with about the same results I understand).

Romney for President, big bird for Thanksgiving, and jobs for everybody that wants one.

"This guy has worked harder on his golf game than running the country"...

Ha! The heavyweight brainless Troglodytes have showed up!
Hang in there, El Jay!
Don't let them provoke you to get yourself banned...try to continue to be reasonable and sane with them.
I'm staying away from them rather than risk bannishment, but I'll check back in now and then.
Best wishes, and thanks for speaking out against the forces of darkness, fear, and Troglodyticism!:)

hanleyclifford
10-07-2012, 07:26 PM
If you have any evidence Obama has lost even one electoral vote as of today and that Romney has gained even one now's the time to display your treasures. A few days ago RCP was awarding 269 potential electoral votes to Obama. After the debate Ohio was moved out of "leans Obama" to "toss up" (18 electoral votes). Obama now stands at 251. Relax, still a lot of football to play.

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-07-2012, 07:41 PM
A few days ago RCP was awarding 269 potential electoral votes to Obama. After the debate Ohio was moved out of "leans Obama" to "toss up" (18 electoral votes). Obama now stands at 251. Relax, still a lot of football to play.

It only takes 270 to win. 251 plus Florida (28) is 279. Last I heard Romney was almost 80 short. If Romney can reverse all that maybe we need such a magician as president.

hanleyclifford
10-07-2012, 07:43 PM
It only takes 270 to win. 251 plus Florida (28) is 279. Last I heard Romney was almost 80 short. If Romney can reverse all that maybe we need such a magician as president. No doubt about it. Romney must win Florida where RCP shows a tie and Rasmussen a Romney lead.

leikec
10-07-2012, 09:32 PM
Can someone show a poll showing a Romney bump that isn't from Rassmussen or We Ask America?

Jeff C

Garret
10-07-2012, 09:43 PM
You got one little bit of good news and you're over the moon.

Relax, man. Relax. You're acting like a high school kid on his first date.

I don't see HC as "over the moon" or even close to that. I do see him watching very carefully - but my guess is he ain't thrilled with either side.

Garret
10-07-2012, 09:47 PM
Can someone show a poll showing a Romney bump that isn't from Rassmussen or We Ask America?

Jeff C

Clarus http://clarusrg.com/content/clarus-poll-and-after-polls-shows-obama-lead-slips


(http://clarusrg.com/content/clarus-poll-and-after-polls-shows-obama-lead-slips)
Pre-Debate Poll: Conducted Tuesday, Oct. 2 (N=590; margin of error +/- 4.03%):

Barack Obama 49%
Mitt Romney 45%
Undecided/no answer 6%

Post-Debate Poll: Conducted Thursday, Oct. 4 (N=590; margin of error +/- 4.03%):

Barack Obama 46% (change -3)
Mitt Romney 47% (change +2)
Undecided/no answer 7% (change +1)


So - 1 point ahead - but +/- 4 points.

hanleyclifford
10-07-2012, 09:47 PM
You got one little bit of good news and you're over the moon.

Relax, man. Relax. You're acting like a high school kid on his first date.

No one denies that Romney got a little bump. We know that, but we're not freaking out about it and you shouldn't either.

Romney's bump wasn't enough to give him a lead. It definitely didn't give him a commanding lead. He's been running behind consistently and he's running behind now. History would seem to imply that bumps fade after a few days and the voters tend to revert back to where they have been all along. Getting ugly now, RCP toady moves Ohio and Florida senatorial races from "lean Obama" to "toss up".http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/senate/2012_elections_senate_map_race_changes.html

hanleyclifford
10-07-2012, 09:56 PM
Nice catch, ljb5, I gotta do better proof reading before I push the button!

hanleyclifford
10-07-2012, 10:08 PM
Anyway, Intrade has Obama at about 2:1 odds, RCP has Obama up 1.4%, 538 has him up 2.1% and PollTracker has him up 2.3%.

I think all have moved towards Romney a little bit in the last few days and I wouldn't be surprised if they move that way a little more. I think we are agreed that Obama still is in the lead.

Kevin T
10-08-2012, 05:24 PM
65 million Baby Boomers and looming SS issues, who do you think they are going to trust?

Add another 20 million Echo Boomers or whatever they're called and it's the Big O by 4 points.:-)

Garret
10-08-2012, 05:40 PM
I think we are agreed that Obama still is in the lead.

Not according to the Pew poll today (bold mine).


Two-thirds of voters said Mr. Romney did a better job than Mr. Obama, including 39 percent of Democrats and 72 percent of independents. And Mr. Romney has improved his standing on most issues and personal characteristics.
Mr. Romney is backed by 49 percent of likely voters and Mr. Obama has the support of 45 percent. Six percent remain undecided. The four-point difference between the candidates is within the poll’s margin of sampling error of three percentage points for each candidate.



Gallup has the lead closed up as well.

Romney got a huge bump from the debate.

Kevin T
10-08-2012, 05:48 PM
And Americans ability to pay attention and the outcome of the next three debates should alter matters.

Besides if there really could be something as ridiculous as an undecided voter with less than thirty days to go, it's doubtful that part of the electorate was even watching round one. It certainly didn't cause any Obama supporters to wake up the next morning and suddenly say: "you know that Mitt Romney was so gosh darn impressive, and even though he doesn't speak to any of the issues that concern me, and even though I can't relate to him in the slightest nor him to me. You know what, I think I'll toss all reason out the window and give my vote to that Mr Romney" yeah right!

Garret
10-08-2012, 05:57 PM
And Americans ability to pay attention and the outcome of the next three debates should alter matters.

Besides of there really could be something as ridiculous as an undecided voter with less than thirty days to go, it's doubtful that part of the electorate was even watching round one. It certainly didn't cause any Obama supporters to wake up the next morning and suddenly say: "you know that Mitt Romney was so gosh darn impressive, and even though he doesn't speak to any of the issues that concern me, and even though I can't relate to him in the slightest nor him to me. You know what, I think I'll toss all reason out the window and give my vote to that Mr Romney" yeah right!

I decided exactly that! :p

I too wondered how anyone could still be undecided. Pretty strange

Kevin T
10-09-2012, 07:59 AM
I decided exactly that! :p

I too wondered how anyone could still be undecided. Pretty strange

"Strange" doesn't even begin to cover it, if you know what I mean. SNL did a great bit on undecided voters the other night in the form of a political ad. Too funny when people were asking; How long do we elect the President for? 1 year? 2 years? 3 Years? For Life? or "Can women vote? Can men vote?

Sadly I think that there are actually people in this country that are that, shall we say "uninformed" ?

Garret
10-09-2012, 08:02 AM
"Strange" doesn't even begin to cover it, if you know what I mean. SNL did a great bit on undecided voters the other night in the form of a political ad. Too funny when people were asking; How long do we elect the President for? 1 year? 2 years? 3 Years? For Life? or "Can women vote? Can men vote?

Sadly I think that there are actually people in this country that are that, shall we say "uninformed" ?

I saw the SNL ad. funny.

"uninformed"????? A very kind word. Are you a politician? ;)

Kevin T
10-09-2012, 08:05 AM
No, just trying to stay reasonable and keep my true feelings for the "moran" class in check. Call me a humanitarian, thanks go to Glen L for that one. :-)

Concordia 33
10-09-2012, 08:59 AM
One little piece of good news for the president and Welch automatically assumes it's a lie.

That's what's wrong with the CEO class in this country.

They're so egocentric, so accustomed to getting everything they want, so used to pushing everyone else around that they simple cannot accept that, sometimes, the other guy gets a break.

It's bad enough that Welch is disappointed in good jobs news. But he has no call to impugn the integrity of our government.

A healthy mistrust of the government might be good, in moderation, but I'm not going to participate in this Republican fad of accusing anyone and everyone of treason just because they don't share your ideology.

I have no reason to believe or disbelieve him here. I think it is safe to say it is pure speculation, but fueled by the single largest monthly drop in 70 years. Either a very good sign for the economy, or a very good sign for the power of partisanship among our civil servants.

TDSoren
10-09-2012, 09:27 AM
No, just trying to stay reasonable and keep my true feelings for the "moran" class in check. Call me a humanitarian, thanks go to Glen L for that one. :-)

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. People of the land. The common clay of the new west. You know....Morons". Blazing Saddles 1974

Waddie
10-09-2012, 11:08 AM
Once again the old adage about ; Lies, damn lies, and statistics holds true. The overall statistic of 7.8 is rather meaningless, but the details are very interesting. Here's a look inside the numbers by John Mauldin; (condensed version). But of course Jack Welch knows this already. If he had disagreed with the way the numbers are calculated, he would have a point; but attacking the integrity of the BLS is an unfair jab..


The unemployment number surprisingly dropped to 7.8% last Friday, and the shoot-from-the-hip crowd came out in force. To say that the jobs report was met with skepticism would be a serious understatement. The response that got the most immediate airplay was ex-GE CEO Jack Welch (who knows a few things about making a number say what you want it to say) tweeting, "Unbelievable job numbers ... these Chicago guys will do anything ... can't debate so change numbers.".........

Such a significant drop in the unemployment rate does not seem, at least on the surface, to be consistent with the slowing economy. It certainly wasn't what most Republicans were expecting one month prior to the elections, and the partisan reaction from my fellow Republicans was sadly predictable. So, since an investigation has been called for, this week we will do just that: we will investigate the numbers. What we will find is that the falling unemployment number was perfectly consistent with a slowing economy, if you look at the details.........

.....the unemployment rate is taken from the volatile Household Survey. This month it shows 873,000 jobs created. 582,000 of those jobs were part-time for economic reasons. That means people wanted more work but could only get part-time jobs. 7.25% of all part-time jobs were created just last month!

.......The BLS also gives us something called the U-6 unemployment rate, which is the total unemployed plus all marginally attached workers employed part-time for economic reasons. Right now the U6 unemployment rate is 14.7%, which is exactly where it was one month ago......

That means the entire drop in the headline unemployment rate is from the increase in part-time workers. That such significant numbers of people can only find part-time work is not a sign of a strong and growing economy. It is however completely consistent with a flat, lackluster economy.......

And it makes sense, at least to me, that the number of part-timers rises in September. There is something in the American experience that says September is the time to go back to work. It comes from our public school system, which traditionally had the school year beginning in September. You can see this phenomenon when you look at the non-seasonally adjusted numbers for part-time workers. They show a big drop-off in summer and a correspondingly big increase in the fall. Look at how volatile the annual numbers have been for the last 10 years. And we can show the same thing for the last 60 years. (This is one of the reasons why we look at seasonally adjusted numbers rather than the volatile raw data.)

People graduating from college, for instance, might spend the summer looking for a job, but when September rolls around they take what they can get, even if it is a part-time job.....

We are employing almost 5% fewer people as a percentage of our population than we were at the beginning of 2008. That means our real unemployment-to-population level is well over 12%. So we're not even close to where we were in 1999, during the last year of the Clinton administration.

And that doesn't take into account the 50% of college graduates who are underemployed.

A significant part of the problem is simply the fact that we are trying to recover from a deleveraging recession. The data suggests that such recoveries may take 10 years. For Japan it is more than 20 years, and counting.....

regards,
Waddie

Garret
10-09-2012, 11:46 AM
We are employing almost 5% fewer people as a percentage of our population than we were at the beginning of 2008. That means our real unemployment-to-population level is well over 12%. So we're not even close to where we were in 1999, during the last year of the Clinton administration.

I see a few reasons why we will never see the Clinton era percentages again. We may see the same absolute # of employees - but only when sales have increased far more. Why? 1) Every company in the US (except maybe military contractors?) has learned to work leaner. Get more work from each employee & you need fewer employees. 2) I work writing custom software for businesses. While many of my customers have needed to fix things, adjust for changing products, etc. every one of them is looking at their systems with efficiency in mind. How can I take this 4 hour process & make it take 2, how can I automate this currently manual process, etc.

Every preceding downturn has done exactly the same thing - so why should this one be any different?

I could also ascribe political motives to certain employers not hiring (to make Obama look bad) - but I don't think that's a significant driver, though every bit hurts.

John of Phoenix
10-09-2012, 12:00 PM
The response that got the most immediate airplay was ex-GE CEO Jack Welch (who knows a few things about making a number say what you want it to say)... Once again, people who would know say Welch cooked the books at GE so he has no problem accusing others of doing the same.

TDSoren
10-09-2012, 12:00 PM
I'm not sure what your point is. Those who deny evolution and global warming, those who believe dinosaurs and man co-existed, those who believe a woman can't get pregnant is she is raped, and those who believe tax cuts for the wealthy create jobs are all Republicans. Those people who want to put the government between a woman and her doctor are Republicans.

Why half the people believe this crap is beyond me. Maybe you can explain it.

Simple. Half of the population is below "average intelligence" :-)

Waddie
10-09-2012, 01:19 PM
I see a few reasons why we will never see the Clinton era percentages again. We may see the same absolute # of employees - but only when sales have increased far more. Why? 1) Every company in the US (except maybe military contractors?) has learned to work leaner. Get more work from each employee & you need fewer employees. 2) I work writing custom software for businesses. While many of my customers have needed to fix things, adjust for changing products, etc. every one of them is looking at their systems with efficiency in mind. How can I take this 4 hour process & make it take 2, how can I automate this currently manual process, etc.

Every preceding downturn has done exactly the same thing - so why should this one be any different?

I could also ascribe political motives to certain employers not hiring (to make Obama look bad) - but I don't think that's a significant driver, though every bit hurts.

The move to part time employees is also part of the scheme for efficiency and cost consciousness. No benefits, no healthcare. Also, computerization means you don't need such highly skilled employees. This is our conundrum; after cutting costs and hiring lots of part timers, who is there that has the disposable income to buy your product? I don't blame companies, the competition is fierce. But the end result isn't good. We are still losing over 20K jobs per month that paid over 70K. There goes the real disposable income. Those jobs aren't going to China, they are mostly being eliminated by the computer.

regards,
Waddie

John of Phoenix
10-09-2012, 01:41 PM
We are still losing over 20K jobs per month that paid over 70K.What kinds of jobs would those be?

Kaa
10-09-2012, 02:05 PM
Oh, dear, such a trove of things to preserve for posterity :-D


I'm a very talented Senior Scientist


I'm pretty sure I'm younger, smarter and faster than pretty much everyone here.


I'm younger, faster and smarter.

This is easy for me.

:-D

Kaa

Peter Malcolm Jardine
10-09-2012, 06:09 PM
Well what a treat!!! Jack Walsh quits Fortune magazine as a columnist, and so does his wife. I guess he didn't like the comment Fortune made about the fact that 100,000 jobs disappeared during his tenure at GE. It didn't help that he slandered the president, and the Bureau of Statistics took offense.

Then he had a temper tantrum.

I guess Jack can dish it out, but he can't take it ;)


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/260987-jack-welch-quits-fortune-magazine-after-rigged-jobs-data-flap

John Smith
10-09-2012, 06:16 PM
For what it's worth, I think we overlook the greed factor.

My simple view of how our economy is supposed to work is the people at the bottom of the financial food chain consume. Their money works its way up to those at the top of the food chain. If those at the top of the food chain who are making lots and lots of money pay a little more in taxes to help those at the other end of the food chain, it's good for business, and they make more money.

If we cut taxes on those at the top of this chain and pay for it by cutting benefits/services to those at the bottom, we lessen the ability of those at the bottom to buy goods and services, so less money works its way up to those at the top.

All of this stuff is connected.

Kevin T
10-09-2012, 07:18 PM
Well what a treat!!! Jack Walsh quits Fortune magazine as a columnist, and so does his wife. I guess he didn't like the comment Fortune made about the fact that 100,000 jobs disappeared during his tenure at GE. It didn't help that he slandered the president, and the Bureau of Statistics took offense.

Then he had a temper tantrum.

I guess Jack can dish it out, but he can't take it ;)

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/260987-jack-welch-quits-fortune-magazine-after-rigged-jobs-data-flap

I would also ascribe it to the syndrome that a lot of old white guys suffer from, and the affliction is even worse in former CEO's and that is; once they had everyone hanging on their every word, they had power, prestige, the whole 9 yards, it must be a pretty rude awakening to discover nobody much cares what you have to say and you've become rather irrelevant.

I say good riddance, it was his own manipulation of people, the environment and the numbers that made him a mediocre CEO anyway when his record is looked at in total.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
10-09-2012, 07:45 PM
He can stay home and count alllllll his money.

C. Ross
10-09-2012, 08:36 PM
Oh, dear, such a trove of things to preserve for posterity :-D

Jack Welch would be so proud.

10 Symptoms of Narcissism


Believing that you’re better than others.
Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness.
Exaggerating your achievements or talents.
Expecting constant praise and admiration.
Believing that you’re special and acting accordingly.
Failing to recognize other people’s emotions and feelings.
Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior.
Being jealous of others. Believing that others are jealous of you.
Setting unrealistic goals
Having a fragile self-esteem. Being easily hurt and rejected.

Six, or seven?

http://leaderchat.org/2011/10/24/healthy-confidence-or-destructive-narcissism-10-warning-signs/

Peter Malcolm Jardine
10-09-2012, 09:08 PM
Wow, what an excellent post.

By the way, Donn doesn't really think all of those things about himself. He jousts.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
10-09-2012, 09:41 PM
Donn's biggest critic will always be Donn anyway.

Some of us have trouble finding any peace.

Glen Longino
10-09-2012, 09:52 PM
Sometimes Donn imagines he's Bob Smalser!;)