fancy deck

[CharlieSanti]

Opions please. I am rebuilding a 14' kayak that was started by someone else and then had a building it was stored in fall on it. I got a 16'Thompson from the same building heavily damaged but that is another project. The kayak is restored back to a hull. I covered the deck with 1/8" okume plywood and now want to cover the plywood with a strip deck in various woods to from a pattern. I would like to use titebond 2 glue to put the deck down rather than epoxy. Then finish with several coats of varnish. What does everyone think of use yellow glue for boat building. The wife has a digital camera I will have her take some progress photos and then someone can email her instructions as to how to post them. csanti@stny.rr.com Thanks, Charlie

[JimM]

Hi Charlie
It is my understanding that the Titebond (Yellow glue) will eventually fail since the glue isn't water proof. You may want to use resorcenal (Spelling ?) if you don't like epoxy.

Jim

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

As far as I know you just can't use it. resorcinol or epoxy, and epoxy can be done in formulations that don't make your work look gluey if thats your worry. Any non watertight glue will fail, and quickly.

[CharlieSanti]

I keep both resornicol and three types of epoxy in shop I will try one of the epoxys. I will not be using any fastners and I want it to hold.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I think just 105 resin with the appropriate hardener and no filler would be fine, you don't need structural strength....so that would be clear, and carefully put on it wouldn't interfere with your varnish job. My two cents.. but I am not up on the latest epoxy tricks... Conrad or Oyster?

[steve sparhawk]

It seems that the nay-sayers must assume that this boat will be in the water all the time and that the deck will not be finished with anything more protective than cheesecloth. Why the fear?
Titebond 2 is darn good and no thinking builder would not put a sufficient finish on the deck.

Sure it'll delaminate----after it has been sitting out in the weather for eight years with no protection and no maintenance. That'll teach you to use cheap glue.

[Dave Williams]

Titebond 2 on a kayak deck? NO! Why would you?

[Rich VanValkenburg]

With the Titebond, or even resorcinol, how would you apply the required clamping pressure? Seems epoxy with the proper fiber added is more forgiving in that area and you'd still wind up with a strong deck.

Rich

[NormMessinger]

Right. I'd be afraid I would not be able to figure out how to clamp tightly enough to use Titebond II for this purpose. Otherwise what Steve said.

The deck of Malachite is 1/8" thick cherry and walnut strips with 2oz glass one each side. No backing piece.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid16/p15105bd71381f15d571bee57bfc6f6bd/fdeebd2e.jpg

[ 01-07-2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: NormMessinger ]

[CharlieSanti]

I am going to go with the west 105 resin and the 206 hardner lay a few strips at a time and then let cure over night. Norm thanks for the instructions I will get Debbie working on photos. Keep you posted as to progress. Charlie

[John Blazy]

You guys are all missng the main problem with Titebond II - Glue Creep. This understandable, because I had to learn this when I studied furniture design in NY, and haven't seen much written about it, except on the bottles of polyurethane glue (and in articles written about it) which advertise good creep resistance. Creep is a minuscule amount of the cured glue "seeping" out of the joint over time. Most waterborne wood glues are PolyVINYL acetate, note vinyl - an elastic plastic - great for adhesion, but will creep or swell out of the joint over the next few months ruining the glass smooth varnish job. I don't know why this occurs, perhaps minute expansion/contraction or moisture cycling or even solvent softening from the varnish, but it always kills my finishes which is why I never use PVA's anymore even on interior furniture.
Charlie, why not use the new polyurethanes like Gorilla Glue? At least a little better than Titebond II for creep resistance (due to thorough crosslinking, whereas the PVA's really don't crosslink) , although epoxy is superior (no creep there either).

Quick note: Gorilla glue adhesion is superior to Titebond's polyurethane version as the titebond foams too much creating thinner cell walls. My home adhesion tests show that Gorilla kills titebond, although PL Premium eats them both for lunch, and Epoxy laughs at them all. - JB

[ 01-08-2003, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: John Blazy ]

[CharlieSanti]

check out 'kayak photos' post for project pictures