car repair question

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  • DavidF
    Don't Remember
    • Mar 2002
    • 423

    car repair question

    I posted this one on the Mercedes forums but I haven't gotten a clear answer because those guys view their antique cars like we view antique boats. But since this group has such and eclectic collection of talents, I think I'll try.

    The car is a 1963 220Sb. The problem is the brake booster is leaking brake fluid. There are no more rebuild kits and a new booster is nearly two grand. The master cylinder and the brake booster are two separate units on this car. I was wondering if I could just take a brake booster from another (cheaper) car and connect some hoses. What would be the problem with this and how would I find the best booster to use?

    Thanks for your advice
    Last edited by DavidF; 08-19-2012, 05:59 PM.
  • purri
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 12954

    #2
    Re: car repair question

    Compare the volume.
    Xanthorrea

    Comment

    • rstump
      Junior Member
      • May 2009
      • 9

      #3
      Re: car repair question

      I'm not very experienced with this model but from what little I do know, there is not supposed to be any break fluid in the booster.

      Fluid in the booster most likely coming from the rear seal in the master cylinder.... I would start there..

      Comment

      • ChaseKenyon
        Polymath Renaissance Man
        • Dec 2008
        • 2580

        #4
        Re: car repair question

        Consider swapping to the vacuum pump and booster and system from a similar age diesel car. The brackets for the pump from the diesel engine fits some of gas sixes IIRC. Turbo turbo gas cars have no vacuum and as it is more compact they use a hydraulic booster. The benz has all its door locks and more vacuum operated so it has to have the vacuum pump and collector.

        The one from the turbo 5 cylinder Audis is very compact and sometimes easier find in good used condition. Me I'd make up the brackets and use the Audi one unless the Benz one is a straight drop in from the diesel benz to the gas unit. My reasoning is many more of the Audis came here and the parts are not quite as dear and easier to find via the Audi Forum. Be sure to sign up for the Diesel benz forum as many questions come up re the gas cars. Most diesel owners are very into the car and mechanicals and do their own engine work and such. I always did all my own work and when the local Transmedic shop had a diesel Benz he'd send it down to me as a odd job in my barn to sort out the vacuum tubing and actuation.

        If your car has the vacuum operated door locks and such have you checked you vacuum accumulator and system?

        All the 123s (had 3 of them) 116s (one of them), 124s and 126s (had two of them all of mine were diesels but I did often work on friends gas cars as I had the big barn and all the tools to fit(custom made to work as well or better than the factory tools) )are everything possible vacuum operated. The cold and heat and desert and rain forest do not affect a vacuum system operating properly the way other systems are affected.

        Email me at the violin/guitar shop if I can be of more help. Always had at least one Benz for 20 years or so. Now I have a Camper with a Detroit 8V71 w/Ally 5 spd for my diesel appetite. Low mileage Prevost LeMirage conversion.(for sale BTW)
        NDNs have higher IQs*



        *indian quotients.


        Comment

        • wardd
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 15162

          #5
          Re: car repair question

          the seals and o rings were probably off the shelf components

          Comment

          • Durnik
            Out 'n About
            • Feb 2011
            • 11534

            #6
            Re: car repair question

            nix all I said - re-reading your post I see you have the older two piece unit. I admit to _no_ experience with them. ;-)

            g' luck!

            enjoy
            bobby
            Last edited by Durnik; 08-19-2012, 10:56 PM.

            Comment

            • Canoeyawl
              .
              • Jun 2003
              • 37698

              #7
              Re: car repair question

              A single remote booster will work as long as the bore diameter of the booster cyl is the same or close.
              That is a very common system in older trucks, but it gets complicated if you have a dual braking system, or a disc, drum combination.
              I wouldn't give up that easily on the original unit though ...
              These folks are local to me and I use them a lot. In fact they supplied parts and advice for me to rebuild a vacuum operated clutch on a '58 220S Mercedes.

              Comment

              • Stiletto
                Grant S
                • Jan 2003
                • 11234

                #8
                Re: car repair question

                Take heed of what wardd says, generic parts (o-rings and seals) can probably be bought separately.
                There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

                Comment

                • Garret
                  Hills of Vermont
                  • Apr 2005
                  • 48618

                  #9
                  Re: car repair question

                  I'm with wardd. Pull it apart & measure carefully. Metric O-rings are readily available. If it's the diaphragm, things just got tougher. Replacing just the booster could be hard because it must bolt to both the master cylinder & the firewall.

                  However, you might find a later Benz unit that could fit. Problem will be that yours (I believe) is a single line system & later will be double. But - you could redo the lines to be double & have safer brakes.

                  Wait a sec. I just searched online & found this: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,1884 $121 + $36 core. Says 220b, but I bet it's the same booster. ???

                  & check this thread: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...r-failure.html
                  "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

                  Comment

                  • Keith Wilson
                    Trying to be reasonable
                    • Oct 1999
                    • 64114

                    #10
                    Re: car repair question

                    Vacuum-operated door locks??? Good God.
                    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
                    for nature cannot be fooled."

                    Richard Feynman

                    Comment

                    • Garret
                      Hills of Vermont
                      • Apr 2005
                      • 48618

                      #11
                      Re: car repair question

                      Originally posted by Keith Wilson
                      Vacuum-operated door locks??? Good God.
                      German cars had 'em for years. Trunk lock too.

                      And please don't say the idea sucks...
                      "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

                      Comment

                      • Canoeyawl
                        .
                        • Jun 2003
                        • 37698

                        #12
                        Re: car repair question

                        Cadillac had them Way Back When...
                        T-birds too - when vacuum was all the rage

                        I had a 1937 buick with a vacuum operated clutch. A big push button on the floor.

                        Comment

                        • Peter Malcolm Jardine
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 18515

                          #13
                          Re: car repair question

                          I'm confused as to what is not available... parts for those cars should be fairly straightforward to find.
                          Wooden boats are like shingles, recurring, and often painful.

                          Comment

                          • leikec
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 10993

                            #14
                            Re: car repair question

                            Originally posted by Peter Malcolm Jardine
                            I'm confused as to what is not available... parts for those cars should be fairly straightforward to find.

                            As is often the case with Mercedes, availability isn't the issue as much as is price....

                            Jeff C
                            Don’t expect much, and you won’t be disappointed…

                            Comment

                            • DavidF
                              Don't Remember
                              • Mar 2002
                              • 423

                              #15
                              Re: car repair question

                              Thanks for the feedback. The technology in this booster did not survive, for good reasons. I dismantled the booster once (the spring pressure was moderate). Inside I found what looked like dried varnish, which I assume was the residue of old brake fluid. This car was a barn find and had sat for many seasons. This car is different from a lot of other cars so it is hard to describe. The master cylinder is on the firewall. The booster is behind the headlight. A brake fluid line runs from the master cylinder to the booster and back. That's how brake fluid gets into the booster. The problem is the diaphragm, which is a donut nine inches in diameter and with flared edges to hold a spring, develops nicks and grooves so fluid can slip past. The o-rings and rubber grommets are easy enough to find, but the diaphragm is unique.

                              The link that Garret sent looks similar but the coupling is different. This is my booster.

                              The car has rear drums and front discs but I think the difference in required pressure is managed by the calipers.

                              There is a ton of space to fit a different model. If all it takes is finding one with an approximate diameter and similar line connections, then I might be a go. I will hunt your suggestions.

                              Comment

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