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Bob Adams
07-27-2012, 03:28 PM
Phillip got me thinking about this. I definately do not buy all of the NRAs positions and routinely throw their mailings in the trash without opening. Still, I am a member. I remain a member because I think without them we would have experianced a major loss of gun rights especially in the aftermath of horrific events like Colorado. What do you think gun laws would look like if the NRA never existed.

wardd
07-27-2012, 03:31 PM
auto safety was the result of horrific accidents

2MeterTroll
07-27-2012, 03:34 PM
still on my hip instead of on a shelf.

Phillip Allen
07-27-2012, 03:47 PM
there would have been no compromises from the anti crowd and the defination of 'reasonable' would be much different

Dan McCosh
07-27-2012, 04:08 PM
The NRA initiated many gun laws before it began to oppose them. The thinking in the old days was that rational gun control was good for society and improved the image of legitimate hunters and users of firearms. IMO, it has became aligned with some very extreme positions, notably the one I brought up in the thread about teenagers carrying arms in heavily-used shopping centers.

Cuyahoga Chuck
07-27-2012, 06:19 PM
The NRA has perptrated a fraud against their membehip by convincing them the Second Amendment guarantees the right to acquire and keep offensive armaments of the most dangerous types.

Phillip Allen
07-27-2012, 06:22 PM
The NRA has perptrated a fraud against their membehip by convincing them the Second Amendment guarantees the right to acquire and keep offensive armaments of the most dangerous types.

can you back that up please... links? printed material and the source of those materials etc?

Bob Adams
07-27-2012, 06:22 PM
The NRA has perptrated a fraud against their membehip by convincing them the Second Amendment guarantees the right to acquire and keep offensive armaments of the most dangerous types.

Document please.

Edit:
Phillip and I must have had our bull$h!t detector go off at the same time!:d

wardd
07-27-2012, 06:25 PM
can you back that up please... links? printed material and the source of those materials etc?

you're quite right phill, the nra does too want to ban certain types of personal weapons

Phillip Allen
07-27-2012, 06:26 PM
Document please.

Edit:
Phillip and I must have had our bull$h!t detector go off at the same time!:d

Kinda made my ears hurt :)

Glen Longino
07-27-2012, 06:33 PM
can you back that up please... links? printed material and the source of those materials etc?

You mean back it up like you backup all your claptrap comments?
Ha!

wardd
07-27-2012, 06:35 PM
phill, just show him all the literature the nra sends out recommending the banning of weapons

Chip-skiff
07-27-2012, 07:07 PM
Links to info on the malignant influence of the NRA on US politics and reasonable gun regulation.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/03/21/alec-has-pushed-the-nras-stand-your-ground-law/186459

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-26/how-to-break-nra-s-grip-on-politics-michael-r-bloomberg.html

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/20/348966/nra-follow-nations-laxest-concealed-carry-laws/?mobile=nc

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1364

http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/archives/2012/07/09/is-this-a-stickup-nra-tests-gop-legislators-for-loyalty

http://www.politicususa.com/nra-shrugs-latest-mass-murder-attention-riveted-electing-romney.html

http://www.mycuentame.org/is_the_nra_lobbying_for_the_rights_of_mexican_drug _cartels


You support this group? Shame!

Bob Adams
07-27-2012, 07:19 PM
Links to info on the malignant influence of the NRA on US politics and reasonable gun regulation.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/03/21/alec-has-pushed-the-nras-stand-your-ground-law/186459

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-26/how-to-break-nra-s-grip-on-politics-michael-r-bloomberg.html

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/20/348966/nra-follow-nations-laxest-concealed-carry-laws/?mobile=nc

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1364

http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/archives/2012/07/09/is-this-a-stickup-nra-tests-gop-legislators-for-loyalty

http://www.politicususa.com/nra-shrugs-latest-mass-murder-attention-riveted-electing-romney.html

http://www.mycuentame.org/is_the_nra_lobbying_for_the_rights_of_mexican_drug _cartels


You support this group? Shame!

You actually read this stuff right? It is a pile of spin. I am a member, and I am not ashamed. The differance between you and me is, I have admitted I don't agree with all the NRA positions, you cannot see anything that does not agree 100 precent with your POV.See the propaganda for what it is.

Waddie
07-27-2012, 07:33 PM
At one time the NRA had leadership that was more than willing to agree to "reasonable" gun restrictions. Each legislative session the anti-gun lobby would propose new restrictions even though they promised the ones previously agreed to were all that they wanted. Just one more gun law is all they asked for.....then just one more.......then just one more........

It became clear to the NRA voting membership that the ultimate goal of the anti-gun lobby was no firearms in the hands of citizens. Period.. Citizens couldn't be trusted with firearms.

So the membership elected leadership that drew a line in the sand that said 26,000+ gun laws were enough. Enforce what you already passed and give out mandatory sentences for using a gun in a crime. (We've yet to see that happen on any large scale. Gun charges are one of the most commonly plea bargained criminal charges. Example; The felon pleads guilty to simple assault if the gun charge is dropped. No trial, no mandatory sentence, cheaper for the state). The NRA supported using psychiatric records as part of the instant check, but that was opposed by the mental health community as they felt it would deter people from seeking treatment if their records became part of a background check system. Doctor-patient confidentiality still keeps many unstable people from being reported - and therefore still able to buy guns. So we have a fairly porous instant check system that does a poor job of screening out the mentally unstable.

regards,
Waddie

Bob Adams
07-27-2012, 07:49 PM
Well said Waddie, it is the "all or nothing" mentality that is the barrier to "common sense" restrictions. To some, "common sense" is confiscation.

Phillip Allen
07-27-2012, 07:52 PM
At one time the NRA had leadership that was more than willing to agree to "reasonable" gun restrictions. Each legislative session the anti-gun lobby would propose new restrictions even though they promised the ones previously agreed to were all that they wanted. Just one more gun law is all they asked for.....then just one more.......then just one more........

It became clear to the NRA voting membership that the ultimate goal of the anti-gun lobby was no firearms in the hands of citizens. Period.. Citizens couldn't be trusted with firearms.

So the membership elected leadership that drew a line in the sand that said 26,000+ gun laws were enough. Enforce what you already passed and give out mandatory sentences for using a gun in a crime. (We've yet to see that happen on any large scale. Gun charges are one of the most commonly plea bargained criminal charges. Example; The felon pleads guilty to simple assault if the gun charge is dropped. No trial, no mandatory sentence, cheaper for the state). The NRA supported using psychiatric records as part of the instant check, but that was opposed by the mental health community as they felt it would deter people from seeking treatment if their records became part of a background check system. Doctor-patient confidentiality still keeps many unstable people from being reported - and therefore still able to buy guns. So we have a fairly porous instant check system that does a poor job of screening out the mentally unstable.

regards,
Waddie

I remember that era quite well... it's what I base my INFORMED resistance on ... the thing speaks for itself (can never remember the Latin spelling)

Cuyahoga Chuck
07-27-2012, 08:32 PM
Document please.

Edit:
Phillip and I must have had our bull$h!t detector go off at the same time!:d

Documents! You been out of the country? A guy just walked into a movie house with weapon that had a 100 round magazine and sprayed the crowd. Until he pull that trigger he was completely legal as far as I can tell. He was completly covered with bulletproof clothing. Again all legally obtained.
Is that what the Founding Fathers intended?

Cuyahoga Chuck
07-27-2012, 08:34 PM
You actually read this stuff right? It is a pile of spin. I am a member, and I am not ashamed. The differance between you and me is, I have admitted I don't agree with all the NRA positions, you cannot see anything that does not agree 100 precent with your POV.See the propaganda for what it is.


That's right! If stuff doesn't have Wayne LaPierre's imprimater on it it has to be propaganda.

Chip-skiff
07-27-2012, 08:36 PM
You actually read this stuff right? It is a pile of spin. I am a member, and I am not ashamed. The differance between you and me is, I have admitted I don't agree with all the NRA positions, you cannot see anything that does not agree 100 precent with your POV.See the propaganda for what it is.

Did you bother to read any of it past the headlines? Of course not.

FYI, Both me and my wife hunt every year and own several firearms. I don't think the NRA has anything to do these days with preserving my right to hunt, which does not depend on being able to purchase assault rifles with high-cap magazines or carrying a Glock to church.

Spin that.

(And your use of a quote from Gandhi demonstrates either sardonic humor or utter incomprehension.)

Glen Longino
07-27-2012, 08:39 PM
I remember that era quite well... it's what I base my INFORMED resistance on ... the thing speaks for itself (can never remember the Latin spelling)

The Latin spelling is BS!
Simple, ain't it?;)

Bob Adams
07-27-2012, 08:53 PM
Did you bother to read any of it past the headlines? Of course not.

FYI, Both me and my wife hunt every year and own several firearms. I don't think the NRA has anything to do these days with preserving my right to hunt, which does not depend on being able to purchase assault rifles with high-cap magazines or carrying a Glock to church.

Spin that.

(And your use of a quote from Gandhi demonstrates either sardonic humor or utter incomprehension.)

It's a free country, believe what you want. My signature is completely approriate, I beleive in peace.

Chip-skiff
07-27-2012, 08:57 PM
It's a free country, believe what you want. My signature is completely approriate, I beleive in peace.

Is this where you got it?

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/1/17/Gandhi_first_blood_1.jpg

Bob Adams
07-27-2012, 09:01 PM
Not even funny, well maybe it is to you.

Chris Coose
07-27-2012, 09:01 PM
What do you think gun laws would look like if the NRA never existed.

Saner.

Phillip Allen
07-27-2012, 09:03 PM
I think I better bring this forward so that Chuck can be held accountable for his own ... ah... misinformation


The NRA has perptrated a fraud against their membehip by convincing them the Second Amendment guarantees the right to acquire and keep offensive armaments of the most dangerous types.

wardd
07-27-2012, 09:13 PM
i'll just discuss adult males here

did the founding fathers allow all adult males to possess arms?

Chip-skiff
07-27-2012, 09:14 PM
sugjective from a bigoted position

Sanity is subjective and bigoted?

You are a lovely piece of work.

Bob Adams
07-27-2012, 09:17 PM
Sanity is subjective and bigoted?

You are a lovely piece of work.

It all depends upon your point of view doesn't it?

Phillip Allen
07-27-2012, 09:28 PM
It all depends upon your point of view doesn't it?

like... his bigoted point of view?

Chris Coose
07-27-2012, 09:34 PM
No problem admitting my dislike for American gun culture for just as long as you have adored it.

It is Pavlovian to see your chin get struck with the knee jerk from a 5 letter word.

Phillip Allen
07-27-2012, 09:43 PM
No problem admitting my dislike for American gun culture for just as long as you have adored it.

It is Pavlovian to see your chin get struck with the knee jerk from a 5 letter word.

your 'gun culture' term is a fantasy. You may as well say jet ski culture... the 'culture' is an abused word

wardd
07-27-2012, 09:47 PM
your 'gun culture' term is a fantasy. You may as well say jet ski culture... the 'culture' is an abused word

so the nra is a fiction?

Glen Longino
07-27-2012, 09:48 PM
your 'gun culture' term is a fantasy. You may as well say jet ski culture... the 'culture' is an abused word

Well, that's merely your opinion, isn't it Mr. Gun Culture Dictator?
Where do you get off telling other people what to say?
Who the hell do you think you are, Sam F?:D

Phillip Allen
07-27-2012, 09:49 PM
I'll bet Glen said 'Gun Culture Dictator' through clenched teeth :)

you'd better be careful of the hyperventilation

Oh, and cover your keyboard

Glen Longino
07-27-2012, 09:59 PM
I'll bet Glen said 'Gun Culture Dictator' through clenched teeth :)

you'd better be careful of the hyperventilation

Oh, and cover your keyboard

And of course you'd be mistaken...so what's new?
Don't even try to tell me what I'd better do.
Hey, it ain't me what's looking for a keyboard to fit my stubby stiff fingers and ain't got the brains to Google!
Sorry, but you begged for it!

ccmanuals
07-27-2012, 10:04 PM
Jim Wright of Stonekettle station recently wrote a pretty good article on gun violence.

http://www.stonekettle.com/

John Smith
07-27-2012, 10:11 PM
The NRA has perptrated a fraud against their membehip by convincing them the Second Amendment guarantees the right to acquire and keep offensive armaments of the most dangerous types.

The second amendment is the most taken out of context thing in the historyof our country.

The NRA is not your father's NRA. What is its purpose in opposing any kind of regulations on guns?

wardd
07-27-2012, 10:14 PM
The second amendment is the most taken out of context thing in the historyof our country.

The NRA is not your father's NRA. What is its purpose in opposing any kind of regulations on guns?

the gun industry

Waddie
07-27-2012, 10:42 PM
The NRA is not your father's NRA. What is its purpose in opposing any kind of regulations on guns?

read post #15...... BTW; the NRA supports lots of regulations on guns. Just not many of the ones the anti-gun lobby wants.

regards,
Waddie

Chris Coose
07-27-2012, 10:51 PM
As a perfect representative and spokesman for American gun culture, I suppose you can call yourself anything you want to.

Mr. Gun Culture Dictator is not bad. nra sock puppet is a better fit.

John Smith
07-27-2012, 10:54 PM
read post #15...... BTW; the NRA supports lots of regulations on guns. Just not many of the ones the anti-gun lobby wants.

regards,
Waddie

All seems kind of hopeless.

Glen Longino
07-27-2012, 10:59 PM
As a perfect representative and spokesman for American gun culture, I suppose you can call yourself anything you want to.

Mr. Gun Culture Dictator is not bad. nra sock puppet is a better fit.

Funny thing, the harder I try to make a peaceful and humanitarian world, all the harder the Troglodytes assure me that it can't happen!
And the harder they try to assure me that they maintain their right to kill one another and create general mayhem.
Crazy bastids!

Chris Coose
07-27-2012, 11:14 PM
And they deny it is a culture of the absurd, while calling us the aggressors. And blood, guts and brains of the innocent gets mopped up by the bucket load.

Glen Longino
07-27-2012, 11:22 PM
And they deny it is a culture of the absurd, while calling us the aggressors. And blood, guts and brains of the innocent gets mopped up by the bucket load.

Yep! Phillip will be along shortly to tell us we are shortsighted and simply need more guns and better guns with better sights!

LeeG
07-27-2012, 11:45 PM
Make sure and wash your hands after dicing jalapeņos

Waddie
07-28-2012, 12:39 AM
All seems kind of hopeless.

When people say we have a "gun culture" I tend to agree with them. In Europe gun ownership and even hunting were primarily the domains of the ruling classes, the aristocratic class, not the peasants. As was land ownership.

When European peasants settled this continent they brought their desires for equality with them. They wanted to own land, even the most "common" settler dreamed of land ownership - it was a way of being the equal of all other men. Remember, early on only land owners could vote. They had learned back in Europe that people who couldn't defend their rights had no rights. And they wanted to be able to own guns, and equated gun ownership with equality. BTW, guns were an important means with which to claim the land and defend it from native peoples or anyone else.

Along with the possibility of being part of the propertied class and owning guns they also wanted religious freedom and free speech, among other things. So we are a "gun culture", and a "property culture" and a "free speech" culture, etc.

Comparing us to most other countries really is like comparing apples to oranges, as it is also difficult to compare many cultures to each other. The Japanese have almost no cultural history with firearms but they have a definite cultural affinity with suicide. Even today Japan has one of the highest rates of teen suicide in the world. Most nations who did not rebel against English rule but gained their freedom gradually over time have less of a cultural dependency on firearms to win their freedoms and a less ingrained notion that owning firearms was a fundamental freedom.

But when you combine our gun freedoms with our multicultural society with it's emphasis on the narrative that the individual is supreme, the self made man, the rugged individual and lack of any universal cultural group identity and cohesion, then violence is going to be more prevalent.

What I mean by universal cultural group identity and cohesion; How many times is something described as a "black" problem, or that it's a "Jewish" thing. , or even that it's acting "white " . In the US there are lots of "others"; in fact, almost everyone is an "other".

So hopeless? In a sense no, if we can ever manage to assimilate to a point where there are more of "us" than there are of "others". Of course, this process could make politics in general a lot easier too..... :)

regards,
Waddie

Chris Coose
07-28-2012, 05:44 AM
Culture : "the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.

The gun culture crew should be addressing the behaviors of the masacre element rather than dismissing the blood letting as having anything to do with guns, especially the big bullet guns that fire rapidly.

Bob Adams
07-28-2012, 08:14 AM
I started this thread with the insane idea there might be some interesting conjecture. Instead I got the normal hate spewing closed minded bile that pops up on every gun thread. Maybe I am insane...the definition being trying the same thing over and over expecting different results. The word bigot popped up. That can apply to any point of view, pro or anti, it simply means a mind closed to any view that is not theirs. If you only see in black and white you are blind. Liberate yourselves folks, ocassionally try to see through the other persons eyes, you may find it enlightening. As to the insults hurled at my signature, I am a man of peace, wishing there was no violence in this world, but there is, and when it comes to my house, I will defend it.

Phillip Allen
07-28-2012, 11:16 AM
Thank you Bob and Waddie... it is heartening to see intelligence among the parrots who are limited to flying in flocks, squawking and sh**ing.

Chris Coose
07-28-2012, 06:03 PM
You two are just stunned and staggered by the brilliance.

Bob Adams
07-28-2012, 08:48 PM
You two are just stunned and staggered by the brilliance.

I rest my case.

Chris Coose
07-28-2012, 11:45 PM
I rest my case

Not so fast there partner.


As to the insults hurled at my signature, I am a man of peace, wishing there was no violence in this world, but there is, and when it comes to my house, I will defend it.

You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi

M. Gandhi changed the world in his simple statements of non-violence. Since his earliest days of extreme risk taking in South Africa and all his days once he returned to India there were those that would have liked to see him murdered and they would have if they thought he would not be adored as a saint martyr.
He finally was taken down at his home by a bullet. And up till that time, he dodged these bullets by creating alternatives for massive change by peaceful means.

The easy way out for his personal protection would have been to build a fortress at the Ashram, hire body guards and carry a gun. That was completly out of the question for this man. Every deed, every step he took mirrored that which he wished to see in the world.

It has to be that you see murderers out your windows.
Even if they aren't right outside your door your chances of dying "by the sword" are better than those of Mr. Gandhi.

BrianY
07-29-2012, 01:30 AM
I don 't know the history of the NRA like others here so I will confine my response to the original question to the NRA of the last 15 years or so. I believe that without THAT NRA, US gun laws would be more restrictive in terms of the kind of guns allowed, the accessorries like large capacity clips that are allowed, there wouldn't be laws permitting open carry and cconcealed carry permits would be harder to obtain. I also believe that the number of guns in the country would be smaller ...and that includes illegal guns.

I do not believe that guns would be outlawed or confiscated. I believe that hunters would still be able to hunt, sport shooters would still bevable to shoot and responsible law abiding people would still be able to purchase guns for their personal use.

Gun laws would be more "sane" meaning that the laws would acknowledge the unique place guns have in our culture while also taking into account the real dangers that they represent. There would be a balance between the rights and interests of gun enthusiasts and the interests and needs of the larger society. There would NOT be nearly as much acrimony and divisivness over guns and gun laws as ther is now. The NRA has NOT been a partner in working to find common ground. Through its intransigence and unwillingness to even consider compromise it has increased acrimony and conflict, with incidents like the Colorado shootings being the inevitable outcome. NO, the NRA didn't cause that or any other incident. However, its inability to compromise on reasonable restrictions enables that sort of stituaion to happen. And it will happen again and again.

Bob Adams
07-29-2012, 08:42 AM
Not so fast there partner.



M. Gandhi changed the world in his simple statements of non-violence. Since his earliest days of extreme risk taking in South Africa and all his days once he returned to India there were those that would have liked to see him murdered and they would have if they thought he would not be adored as a saint martyr.
He finally was taken down at his home by a bullet. And up till that time, he dodged these bullets by creating alternatives for massive change by peaceful means.

The easy way out for his personal protection would have been to build a fortress at the Ashram, hire body guards and carry a gun. That was completly out of the question for this man. Every deed, every step he took mirrored that which he wished to see in the world.

It has to be that you see murderers out your windows.
Even if they aren't right outside your door your chances of dying "by the sword" are better than those of Mr. Gandhi.

Not outside my house, but I have had intruders at night while my family slept twice. I confronted them with my gun and they departed. No violence. My boat was broken into Friday night, just property theft, I will NOT be sleeping aboard with a gun waiting for their return, again non violent. I will not change my signature, I believe in it.

ccmanuals
07-29-2012, 11:01 AM
Not outside my house, but I have had intruders at night while my family slept twice. I confronted them with my gun and they departed. No violence. My boat was broken into Friday night, just property theft, I will NOT be sleeping aboard with a gun waiting for their return, again non violent. I will not change my signature, I believe in it.

I don't believe that sensible gun laws would prevent you from defending your family, home and property.

Waddie
07-29-2012, 11:34 AM
I don't believe that sensible gun laws would prevent you from defending your family, home and property.

You mean "sensible" Like the UK or Japan?


UK; Historically, most certificates approved for handguns listed "self-defence" as a reason. Since 1968 in mainland Britain, self-defence is not considered an acceptable "good reason" for firearm ownership (however use of a licensed firearm in self-defence is often justified provided that the victim can prove they used necessary and reasonable force).


Japan; The weapons law begins by stating "No-one shall possess a fire-arm or fire-arms or a sword or swords", and very few exceptions are allowed.[39] The only types of firearms which a Japanese citizen may acquire is a rifle or shotgun. Sportsmen are permitted to possess rifles or shotguns for hunting and for skeet and trap shooting, but only after submitting to a lengthy licensing procedure.[41] Without a licence, a Japanese citizen may not even hold a gun in his or her hands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics

regards,
Waddie

ccmanuals
07-29-2012, 12:00 PM
He was afraid for this life. yeah, right. (Wednesday)


A man in Cape Coral, Florida on Wednesday was arrested for shooting and killing an unarmed door-to-door salesman (http://www.news-press.com/article/20120725/CRIME/120725029/) on his property.
Kenneth Bailey Roop, 52, has been charged with second-degree murder for killing 30-year-old Nicholas Rainey.
A co-worker who witnessed the shooting (http://www.news-press.com/article/20120726/NEWS01/120725038/0/pbcs.dll/Witnesses-suspect-provide-conflicting-accounts-Cape-Coral-shooting?odyssey=nav%7Chead)said Rainey had knocked on Roop’s door, but received no answer. While Rainey was walking down the drive-way, Roop pulled up in his pickup truck and asked why Rainey was at his house. Rainey explained that he was selling steak and seafood. The witness said Roop then pulled out a black handgun and shot Rainey. As Rainey lay on the ground, Roop fired another bullet into the back of his head.
Roop later told police that he shot Rainey in the head “for effect” and that he had three no trespassing signs on his property. Roop said he feared for his life.
“I’m not going to give him the chance to do something to me,” he told police. “I was in fear.”
An off-duty Collier County sheriff’s deputy was nearby and heard the gunshots. When she arrived at Roop’s property, she found Rainey dying on the ground while Roop was in his garage reloading his handgun.
“He was telling the officer, ‘he stepped on my property, he trespassed, I’ll kill anybody that steps on my property,’ somewhere along them lines. It was just unbelievable,” one witness told the The News-Press. “She never flinched. She deserves a medal. I don’t think he was done [shooting].”
The deputy ordered Roop to drop his weapon and held him at gunpoint until police officers arrived.
Roop’s neighbors described him as “the neighborhood crazy.” Roop has a concealed weapons permit and approximately 14 firearms.



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/26/florida-man-kills-door-to-door-salesman-i%E2%80%99ll-kill-anybody-that-steps-on-my-property/#.UBIHQtV334E.reddit

Phillip Allen
07-29-2012, 12:09 PM
He was afraid for this life. yeah, right. (Wednesday)



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/26/florida-man-kills-door-to-door-salesman-i%E2%80%99ll-kill-anybody-that-steps-on-my-property/#.UBIHQtV334E.reddit

so, I gather that you believe all gun owners or maybe 'most' gun owners are like that and are trying to convince others of the same? it would follow, then, that you believe me to be that way...

Phillip Allen
07-29-2012, 12:12 PM
You mean "sensible" Like the UK or Japan?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics

regards,
Waddie

Waddie, he and many others have no idea what 'sensible' would be... likely, 'sensible' means any law proposed by any democrat

Phillip Allen
07-29-2012, 12:12 PM
speaking of sensible...

http://now.msn.com/sheriffs-department-raids-wrong-apartment

wardd
07-29-2012, 12:20 PM
so, I gather that you believe all gun owners or maybe 'most' gun owners are like that and are trying to convince others of the same? it would follow, then, that you believe me to be that way...

not most but unfortunately enough

most drivers don't cause accident but enough do that driving has to be regulated

Chris Coose
07-29-2012, 12:26 PM
I will not change my signature, I believe in it.

Twice, you say?
A change of address seems far more sensible in the interest of your family's safety.

ccmanuals
07-29-2012, 12:27 PM
so, I gather that you believe all gun owners or maybe 'most' gun owners are like that and are trying to convince others of the same? it would follow, then, that you believe me to be that way...

Nope. not even close. It was simply anecdotal evidence. I have been consistent that I believe there should be sensible and enforceable laws with regards to guns. Right now the entire conversation regarding this issue is being dominated by the extremes on both sides. I think in a similar thread a couple of months ago we had the same conversation where I asked you what you thought were some sensible laws and you had some very good ideas. It's that type of conversation that is missing from the national debate on this issue.

Phillip Allen
07-29-2012, 12:41 PM
Nope. not even close. It was simply anecdotal evidence. I have been consistent that I believe there should be sensible and enforceable laws with regards to guns. Right now the entire conversation regarding this issue is being dominated by the extremes on both sides. I think in a similar thread a couple of months ago we had the same conversation where I asked you what you thought were some sensible laws and you had some very good ideas. It's that type of conversation that is missing from the national debate on this issue.

I don't recall being sensible at all

wardd
07-29-2012, 12:45 PM
I don't recall being sensible at all

anything that would inhibit ones right to pack firearms and be a potential danger to society at large would not be sensible to you

Bob Adams
07-29-2012, 01:13 PM
Twice, you say?
A change of address seems far more sensible in the interest of your family's safety.

Wish I could.

Chris Coose
07-29-2012, 01:30 PM
I wished you could too. I wouldn't be able to stay.

htom
07-29-2012, 02:48 PM
Gun control demonstration: Kim Rhodes shoots 99/100 in Women's Skeet.

Gun control laws: Pretending that the real world will obey the words of the statutes, rather than the laws of Nature.