View Full Version : Do you know some thing has happened in Myanmar?

07-27-2012, 08:25 AM
Well, I don't find any thing on international media.


The Bigfella
07-27-2012, 08:43 AM
Only what I've googled up Syed. I was surprised by the large number of Muslim people I've seen here in Mae Sot, on Myanmar's eastern border. Presumably the same peoples.

I've been given a letter of introduction to Suu Kyi's associate, U Lin, whom I expect to meet in the next couple of days. I'll ask.


07-27-2012, 12:21 PM
lots actually. I am not totally sure that what is happening in that country is actually getting out. IMO there something missing because i cannot see Buddhists acting this way without having a reason. the fact that these refugees are also being denied by the surrounding countries seems to say that there is something else going on.



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444840104577548661902329028.html?m od=googlenews_wsj


Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-27-2012, 01:25 PM
According to my very limited understanding of Burma, the Army has not really changed its approach to the minorities, but the nations with an interest in seeing Burma change have more or less agreed to turn a blind eye to Army campaigns against the minorities, arguing that the first thing is to get a fully elected government, and once that has been done, that government can change the Army's behaviour towards the minorities.

07-27-2012, 05:51 PM

Recent clashes in western Myanmar between Buddhist ethnic Rakhine and Muslim Rohingya have left dozens dead and tens of thousands homeless.

Last week, Amnesty International said hundreds of people, mostly men and boys, have been detained in sweeps of areas heavily populated by the Rohingya, with almost all held incommunicado and some ill-treated.

Most arrests appear to have been "arbitrary and discriminatory" and Amnesty said there were "credible reports" of abuses against the Rohingya population - including rape, destruction of property and unlawful killings - by both Rakhine Buddhists and the security forces.

Decades of discrimination have left the Rohingya stateless, and they are viewed by the United Nations as one of the world's most persecuted minorities.

Myanmar President Thein Sein, just days before he began a three-day visit to Thailand last Sunday, called for the deportation of all 800,000 Rohingya, saying their presence in Myanmar was unacceptable.

"It is impossible to accept the illegally entered Rohingyas, who are not our ethnicity,'' he told UN High Commissioner for Refugees Antonio Guterres.

He referred to mass deportation of all Rohingya as "the only solution to the issue".

One of the most persecuted minorities in the world, according to the UN.

"Illegally entered" Royingyas are probably (or allegedly) from Bangladesh which Arakan (their main home) borders. Perhaps that's where they're planned to be deported to?

And I found this from June.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j7a3oPcHSvWSpkXzzSruvNZfdPMA?docId=CNG.8d52d 8a6dba835c4ac54aab3f3c8031b.571

07-27-2012, 06:05 PM
Another country having border problems with refugees, or xenophobia?
This is a time of great people movement, possibly the biggest since the establishment of the European states, and what were mostly arbitrary borders or natural barriers will not stop it.

07-27-2012, 06:19 PM
Sounds a lot like ethnic cleansing to me. Arakan is their home, and they're being pushed out of it.

I like my island homes......

.....though they haven't always worked out for everybody over the years.

07-27-2012, 07:16 PM
You may have heard of "the Burma Surgeon," Gordon Seagraves, or read one of his six books, including "My Hospital in the Hills." This told of Seagraves' medical mission in Burma, and his adventures there. He and his hospital staff have credit for conducting General "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell's troops out of Burma ahead of the advancing Japanese army.

He was my cousin, and I can remember talking with him when I was a child.

The Bigfella
07-27-2012, 07:30 PM
I discussed it with 5 refugees last night. They are all Karen people 2 Buddhist, 3 Christian. Yes, the many Muslim people here at Mae Sot are also refugees from Myanmar. Whilst the Thai government doesn't give them refugee status, they turn a blind eye to them being here... provided they stay here.

They are cheap labour. For example, one has a job that pays him 4,000 baht per month... $120. A Thai doing the same job would get 7,000 baht.

The questions that should be being asked are about child soldiers, etc. There are 14 year olds and maybe younger in the Karen army.

07-27-2012, 09:28 PM
IIRC the western border is fractured/fluid inasmuch that there are enclaves of Deshi in Myanmar and enclaves of Burmese in Bangla Desh. The English apparently adopted a laissez faire policy as all was under their administration. The "hill tribes" on both sides get the worst of both worlds.

The Bigfella
07-28-2012, 11:02 AM
Talked to a donor representative about this tonight. She's with the christian churches. She said that the international media aren't allowed in and the local, very amateurish, media is fanning the flames. Myanmar was recently holding a number of NGO and UN personnel, btw. There's fighting going on between the Myanmar Army and the Karen National Liberation Army about 40km from where I am, on the eastern border.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-28-2012, 12:02 PM
Burma has been in a continual state of civil war since independence - and independence came very soon after three years of being fought over in WW2. I recall that a Cathay Pacific DC3 was hijacked by the KNLA around 1949 - used for a few supply runs and then released.

The Bigfella
08-01-2012, 10:12 PM
I helped an Islamic Burmese chap revise his biography yesterday. I don't know to what end.... maybe I can help get him to Australia? He took part in the 1988 student revolution, as a 13 year old... and had to scarper to the border as a result - and still suffers from the injuries he sustained. He can't go back. He failed his US Homeland Security interview a few years ago and used his appeal (which had to be done in 90 days). The system is loaded against guys like him. He had to walk through a military gate to get to the interview... which got him "excited".... and then he's grilled for 6 hours on something he didn't write.

He's a hard chap to interview. The issue is what happened one night 24 years ago when he was a scared 13 year old. He got stitched up by some d!ckhead who "helped" him write his application... and he got rejected because his answers to questions were different to what D!ckhead wrote (and which he couldn't read). I'd love to meet up with D!ckhead for a discussion. This kid was the section's coffee getter... yet he got nailed because adults from a different section killed some soldiers and he said 2 at one point and 4 at another.

Life isn't easy for Muslims in Burma. Then again, it isn't easy for any minority or anyone with a political view, or anyone related to anyone with a political view, or....... the list goes on.

The Bigfella
09-03-2012, 09:10 PM
Syed... this is a letter from A. Gambhira re the situation in Burma with the Muslim people. Well worth reading.


Phillip Allen
09-03-2012, 09:18 PM
watch your back, Ian

09-03-2012, 09:53 PM
There's been a decades-long standoff between the military government and the ethnic groups of the north (Kachin, Shan, et al.) that's unresolved. The violence against Muslims in the south is a recent flare-up, but they have fewer defenses, whether natural or an organised, armed resistance.

Along with a host of other troubles, I'm sure.

09-03-2012, 09:54 PM
^+1. (in the world of politics everyone is expendable)

The Bigfella
09-03-2012, 10:09 PM
There are IIRC 700,000 Muslims in Burma. The Burmese government (military controlled) refuses to recognise them as citizens.

09-04-2012, 11:07 AM
Syed... this is a letter from A. Gambhira re the situation in Burma with the Muslim people. Well worth reading.


Thank you Ian, for sharing the link to a very enlightening letter.

09-04-2012, 11:15 AM
Wait, What. Aren't Bhudism and Islam and Christianity all religions of peace, tolerance and devine forgiveness and unity?

09-04-2012, 11:29 AM
Wait, What. Aren't Bhudism and Islam and Christianity all religions of peace, tolerance and devine forgiveness and unity Peace, tolerance and divine forgiveness ... all are in following the teachings in the true spirit.

The Bigfella
09-20-2012, 09:02 PM
An interesting article:

Burmese opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi called Tuesday for the removal of the “roots of hatred” that have fueled the conflict between ethnic Rakhines and Muslim Rohingyas in western Burma, saying the issue has to be resolved through respect for human rights, the rule of law, and negotiations.

“Basically, whenever there is hate, there is fear. So, hate and fear are very closely related. You have to remove the roots of hatred—that is to say you have to address these issues that make people insecure and that make people threatened,” she told Radio Free Asia’s Burmese service in an interview.

“Whenever people talk about conflict resolution, whatever kind of advice they give, there is one that is unavoidable—you have to talk to one another, you have to negotiate, you have to sort out your problems through speech rather than violence,” she said.

Aung San Suu Kyi has been criticized by rights groups for not speaking out more forcefully on the Rohingya issue following bloody violence between the Rohingya and Rakhine communities in Rakhine state in June, which killed up to 87 people and left tens of thousands displaced.

The clashes had sparked international allegations that human rights violations were being committed against the Rohingya, who the United Nations says are the world's most oppressed group. The Burmese authorities do not regard them as an ethnic group even though they have lived for generations in the country.

Last week, exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama told students in India that he had written to Aung San Suu Kyi about the Rohingya issue but did not receive a response.

“We wrote a letter to Suu Kyi regarding the violence but we got no reply. My representative in [New] Delhi even met the Burmese Ambassador here but it has been four weeks and we have not heard from them. There is no channel for us to approach,” the Dalai Lama said, according to the Press Trust of India.

In an indirect reference to her relative silence on the Rohingya issue, Aung San Suu Kyi said earlier that many did not realize that her National League for Democracy (NLD), the main opposition party in parliament, was not in the government.

She said that the NLD is not in a “position to decide what we do and how we operate because we are not a government.”

“This needs to be understood by those who wish the NLD to do more.”

Aung San Suu Kyi, who arrived on Monday for a nearly three-week U.S. visit, also explained that her NLD gives top priority to human rights and the rule of the law in any resolution of the conflict, noting that such differences are a universal problem and not confined to Burma only.

“I have always said—this is the policy of my party—that human rights and rule of law are necessary in order to bring down tensions in such a situation.”

“But in the long run, you have to build up harmony between the communities through understanding, through exchange.”

She also stressed that human rights should be applied to “everybody and equally” to all groups.

“To ignore either human rights or rule of law or to insist on human rights and pretend rule of law is another matter will not work. These two have to go together.”

Aung San Suu Kyi also said that her NLD party wants to help the government to end the crisis in Rakhine state.

“We [the NLD] do not want to make political capital out of the situation in Rakhine state. We want to give the government all the opportunities it needs to defuse the situation there,” she said earlier when speaking at a Washington forum organized by the Asia Society.

“We want to help the government in any way possible to bring about peace in Rakhine state.”

Aung San Suu Kyi also touched on the following subjects in her interview with RFA:

Transition to democracy:

Asked what her biggest concern was during the current transition in Burma, she said, “My great concern is to empower the people to be able to build the kind of society they want. That is what democracy means."

Consensus building:

Burma, she said, suffered a setback during years under a poor education system and has more work to do to build up a “healthy political culture” in which people are willing to compromise.

“We are weak when it comes to negotiated compromise. It’s not part of our society or culture,” she said.

But she said that the people were learning quickly. “If we had not been capable of negotiated compromise, we would not be where we are now.”

Asked if President Thein Sein could be awarded the next Nobel Peace Prize for spearheading Burma’s reforms since his government came to power last March, she said she had not heard it was a possibility.

“I don’t believe in engaging in speculation,” she said.

In her remarks at the Asia Society in Washington on Tuesday, she also commented on China:

“It does not mean that because the U.S. is engaging with Burma it should in any way be seen as a hostile step towards China,” she said. China was a key ally of Burma during the decades of military rule.

“We can use our new situation to strengthen relations between all three countries. For us—to put it very simply—it would be to our advantage for the U.S. and China to establish friendly relations.”


I believe that A. Gambhira has also published a more detailed letter on the origins of these troubles, with the military government fostering dissent. If I come across it, I'll post it.

The Bigfella
10-27-2012, 08:01 AM
More bad news emerging from Burma on this. It seems a whole Rohingya District in a city in Rakhine has been burnt out.

10-27-2012, 08:42 AM
Sadly, these people have nothing to offer us. The USA is disgraced by our hypocrisy again.

The Bigfella
05-27-2013, 09:08 AM
Wow! Suu Kyi is coming out with both fists swinging this week...Does this indicate a change in tactics?

"Aung San Suu Kyi on Monday criticized the government’s reform agenda, saying that little progress had been made in establishing rule of law and peace. She urged President Thein Sein to push ahead with more reforms, adding that “only a desire for change is not enough.”

Suu Kyi also questioned the recent introduction of a two-child policy for Rohingya families in northern Arakan State, saying that the measure is “illegal” and “not in accordance with human rights.”

She made her remarks during the first meeting of the National League for Democracy’s new Central Executive Committee in Rangoon on Monday.

“The reform started in 2010, now we have to ask the question: ‘Have we got any tangible results so far’?”...She said reforming the military-drafted 2008 Constitution, ending ethnic conflict and establishing rule of law remains key to Burma’s development and democratic transition.

From "Peace in Burma Now" Facebook page.

Osborne Russell
05-27-2013, 09:14 AM
Another country having border problems with refugees, or xenophobia?
This is a time of great people movement, possibly the biggest since the establishment of the European states, and what were mostly arbitrary borders or natural barriers will not stop it.

Why not call it over-population?