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Shang
07-23-2012, 08:27 PM
So what it came to shove, and you were asked to register, or even turn in, your guns...
Would you do it?

hanleyclifford
07-23-2012, 08:31 PM
So what it came to shove, and you were asked to register, or even turn in, your guns...
Would you do it? I doubt if you'll get a straight answer from anybody on this; however, it might be instructive to review the incidents at Concord Bridge and Lexington Green.

wardd
07-23-2012, 08:37 PM
I doubt if you'll get a straight answer from anybody on this; however, it might be instructive to review the incidents at Concord Bridge and Lexington Green.

what if the british had had gunships?

i have a laugh every time someone hints at they need their guns to preserve liberty

tyrants don't worry about people with guns as they tend to baracade themselves in, they can be dealt with anytime

they go after intellectuals and media outlets first

BrianW
07-23-2012, 08:45 PM
well, you'll get to watch as they round up Joe and me... you get to be last

Doh!

hanleyclifford
07-23-2012, 09:26 PM
Newsflash to wardd - the British had ships with plenty guns and they came afer the guns first.

Cuyahoga Chuck
07-23-2012, 09:39 PM
So what it came to shove, and you were asked to register, or even turn in, your guns...
Would you do it?

Trying to accomplish either would be a monumental task that the goverment could not complete. There are ust too many guns and gun owners out there.
What could be done if the NRA was beaten down would be to eliminate the possesion of workable military weapons with any kind of high volume box magazine or belt feed. Also military sniper weapons. The huckstering of body armour could also be eliminated.

hanleyclifford
07-23-2012, 09:43 PM
Trying to accomplish either would be a monumental task that the goverment could not complete. There are ust too many guns and gun owners out there.
What could be done if the NRA was beaten down would be to eliminate the possesion of workable military weapons with any kind of high volume box magazine or belt feed. Also military sniper weapons. The huckstering of body armour could also be eliminated. Actually, in Massachusetts guns are already registered and owners are licensed. Properly administered, such controls are supported by most gun owners. In fact, many of us would like to see some national standards set.

Donn
07-23-2012, 09:50 PM
My guns are all registered. So what?

What's "thach?"

Canoez
07-23-2012, 09:53 PM
My guns are all registered. So what?

What's "thach?"

Well, if it was spelled properly - thatch was the roofing material in which the rebels hid their swords. :d

BrianW
07-23-2012, 09:55 PM
What's "thach?"

USS Thach (FFG-43), an Oliver Hazard Perry-class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hazard_Perry_class_frigate) frigate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigate), is a ship of the United States Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy) named for Admiral John Thach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Thach) (1905–1981), a Naval Aviator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Aviator) during World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II), who invented the Thach Weave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave) dogfighting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogfight) tactic.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/USS_Thach_FFG-43.jpg/300px-USS_Thach_FFG-43.jpg

Probably not a single Claymore on that boat.

bobbys
07-23-2012, 10:06 PM
I will turn in my Red Ryder 20 shot BB carbine when libs enforce gun laws,start waterboarding these crazy shooters and put the death sentence in full force.

Durnik
07-23-2012, 10:11 PM
what if the british had had gunships?

i have a laugh every time someone hints at they need their guns to preserve liberty

tyrants don't worry about people with guns as they tend to baracade themselves in, they can be dealt with anytime

they go after intellectuals and media outlets first

The church targeted the native american story tellers first.. the holders of knowledge in an oral tradition culture..

As for civilians resisting a modern army.. Iraqi casualties hover, where, around 100K? - U.S. casualties, around 4K.. with decreasing amounts of other 'participants'. Even U.S. style swat teams kill an extremely high ratio of their targets.. with few matching casualties.. Those who imagine they can 'defend their home against the government' are delusional. Strange how their hero on Ruby Ridge failed.. but they'll succeed.. It would be far better that they put their efforts toward changing society to be more fair to the many & less supportive of the greedy.

enjoy
bobby

Phillip Allen
07-23-2012, 10:16 PM
The church targeted the native american story tellers first.. the holders of knowledge in an oral tradition culture..

As for civilians resisting a modern army.. Iraqi casualties hover, where, around 100K? - U.S. casualties, around 4K.. with decreasing amounts of other 'participants'. Even U.S. style swat teams kill an extremely high ratio of their targets.. with few matching casualties.. Those who imagine they can 'defend their home against the government' are delusional. Strange how their hero on Ruby Ridge failed.. but they'll succeed.. It would be far better that they put their efforts toward changing society to be more fair to the many & less supportive of the greedy.

enjoy
bobby

it's amazing how many of these "It is futle to resist" sermons come from our 'friends'... who want us to meekly surrender to a fate dictated by some unknown 'Dear Leader'."
civil war is a process, not an event

Vince Brennan
07-23-2012, 10:16 PM
My guns are all registered. So what?

What's "thach?"Thach a hilarious question....;)

Durnik
07-23-2012, 10:51 PM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Durnik http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=3480203#post3480203)

The church targeted the native american story tellers first.. the holders of knowledge in an oral tradition culture..

As for civilians resisting a modern army.. Iraqi casualties hover, where, around 100K? - U.S. casualties, around 4K.. with decreasing amounts of other 'participants'. Even U.S. style swat teams kill an extremely high ratio of their targets.. with few matching casualties.. Those who imagine they can 'defend their home against the government' are delusional. Strange how their hero on Ruby Ridge failed.. but they'll succeed.. It would be far better that they put their efforts toward changing society to be more fair to the many & less supportive of the greedy.

enjoy
bobby



it's amazing how many of these "It is futle to resist" sermons come from our 'friends'... who want us to meekly surrender to a fate dictated by some unknown 'Dear Leader'."
civil war is a process, not an event

I said not a thing about surrender - passive/meek or otherwise.. I _did_ mention active involvement - albeit without a gun.

Come on, Phillip, read!

enjoy
bobby

2MeterTroll
07-23-2012, 11:26 PM
sure they can have the guns, they are already registered. dont know what they would do with a Rusty single shot .22 and an old navy colt, they might find a use for my rifle (most would just stand around looking at the old school open sights.).

BrianW
07-23-2012, 11:38 PM
Strange how their hero on Ruby Ridge failed.. but they'll succeed..

You mean the guy the government set up, then ambushed without warning, shooting his son in the back and his wife while she held a baby?

I dare say he didn't know it was a fight to the death until the bullets started flying.

BrianW
07-23-2012, 11:42 PM
I will say the largest insurrection against the US government did indeed fail.

Over 3 million fought the government, and 620,000 were killed.

Probably no current politician wants to start something like that again.

WX
07-23-2012, 11:56 PM
Seems to me your biggest threat is from each other. Now some of you want to carry guns in cinemas. More guns = more casualties, not less.
It's a bit like saying more cars on the road will mean less accidents.

have you noticed that most of the sophisticated Hollywood villains have British accents?

wardd
07-24-2012, 12:01 AM
it's amazing how many of these "It is futle to resist" sermons come from our 'friends'... who want us to meekly surrender to a fate dictated by some unknown 'Dear Leader'."
civil war is a process, not an event

then you agree guns don't bring about change in the modern world?

2MeterTroll
07-24-2012, 12:02 AM
thats cause we are still fighting a war long after the war ended. I dont have any idea why we just are.


Seems to me your biggest threat is from each other. Now some of you want to carry guns in cinemas. More guns = more casualties, not less.
It's a bit like saying more cars on the road will mean less accidents.

have you noticed that most of the sophisticated Hollywood villains have British accents?

Durnik
07-24-2012, 12:09 AM
You mean the guy the government set up, then ambushed without warning, shooting his son in the back and his wife while she held a baby?

I dare say he didn't know it was a fight to the death until the bullets started flying.

That is exactly the one I meant & exactly why. The government would never pass a 'dirty hands' (in the legal sense) test. They also have 'evolved'/morphed into a 'shoot first, ask questions later' entity, and as they know they are coming.. & as you said, Randy Weaver didn't, the conclusion is pretty much a done deal.

Now, since I'm sure you (Phillip, et al) don't like that scenario, & I assure you that I dislike it, what I am saying is put effort into what might change it. More guns will not work. But, a change in societies values probably will..

That's all.

BTW, in previous threads I've stated I am not across the board anti gun. Altho I no longer own any (& have two happy brothers ;-)), I recognize that, for instance, a rancher has different needs than a city/apartment dweller - & neither need firearms designed to kill people. A fairer society with less trigger happy (& educated, for gawds sake!) police would go far to eliminate the cause of much violence/killing/theft in this country.. With a balancing of the wealth, only the extremely wealthy would lose - so why don't we have that fairer society?

You can consider that question rhetorical.

Yes, the Civil war was horrendous - viewed from both sides. Neither was nice, & the North obviously treated the South as a 'red headed step child'.. but that is _exactly_ the problem in a predatorially capitalist society.. the underdog always gets hit - again. That was wrong then, & is wrong now.

Yes, Hopefully, no politician wants to start something like that again!

enjoy
bobby

wardd
07-24-2012, 12:22 AM
that has yet to be seen... wardd, you cannot be as stupid as you sometimes sound! If you were, you'd end up standing in the rain and looking up at and drowning.

machine-guns, rpg's, artilery may, but the guns you have and the guns most americans have will never be used to fight for freedom

reportedly hitler once said when it was suggested to him that rebellion be fomented in russia, " what chance would that have in germany and the soviets had 20 more years in power"

get real, your guns are powerful only in your fantasies

2MeterTroll
07-24-2012, 01:31 AM
some of us resemble this remark.



the North obviously treated the South as a 'red headed step child'..
enjoy
bobby

Andrew Craig-Bennett
07-24-2012, 06:50 AM
Guns? what guns? I don't have any guns.

Why... you... dangerous librul traitor! You're a danger to society, with an attitude like that!

:d

Shang
07-24-2012, 07:58 AM
Well, if it was spelled properly - thatch was the roofing material in which the rebels hid their swords. :d

Sheech...a spelling correction from a guy who can't even spell "Canoes"

http://maymyatthu007.edublogs.org/files/2011/01/canoes-10diuum.jpg

Durnik
07-24-2012, 10:24 AM
Sheech...a spelling correction from a guy who can't even spell "Canoes"

http://maymyatthu007.edublogs.org/files/2011/01/canoes-10diuum.jpg

Aye, and themz sweet canoez.. ;-)

enjoy
bobby

Canoez
07-24-2012, 10:49 AM
Sheech...a spelling correction from a guy who can't even spell "Canoes"

http://maymyatthu007.edublogs.org/files/2011/01/canoes-10diuum.jpg

|;) :d

Waddie
07-24-2012, 11:10 AM
What's registration? I own several guns, long guns and handguns, and none of them have a paper trail. So what's there ever to turn in? If a BATF agent ever did come knocking, he would probably say, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". Help what? What guns? In the words of the immortal Sergeant Schultz," I have nothing, I hear nothing, I see nothing!!"

regards,
Waddie

pipefitter
07-24-2012, 12:35 PM
The church targeted the native american story tellers first.. the holders of knowledge in an oral tradition culture..

As for civilians resisting a modern army.. Iraqi casualties hover, where, around 100K? - U.S. casualties, around 4K.. with decreasing amounts of other 'participants'. Even U.S. style swat teams kill an extremely high ratio of their targets.. with few matching casualties.. Those who imagine they can 'defend their home against the government' are delusional. Strange how their hero on Ruby Ridge failed.. but they'll succeed.. It would be far better that they put their efforts toward changing society to be more fair to the many & less supportive of the greedy.

enjoy
bobby

Well, many of US gun owners are and continue to be trained by the military. I don't know that in this country, that it would be so easy to get the enlisted to stand against their own people, being that most you ever talk to aren't, in their minds, fighting for the government when it comes right down to it.

Bob Adams
07-24-2012, 12:46 PM
I'd gladly register (although most of mine already are, state of MD) or turn in my weapons just as soon as I am sure all the criminals have complied also.

bobbys
07-24-2012, 01:15 PM
Come and get it if you have the brass!.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4782867635832322&id=4ec473f90cb4ea492112e6d48b29c05c

Durnik
07-24-2012, 08:41 PM
Well, many of US gun owners are and continue to be trained by the military. I don't know that in this country, that it would be so easy to get the enlisted to stand against their own people, being that most you ever talk to aren't, in their minds, fighting for the government when it comes right down to it.

You seem to be saying the U.S. military would not take a stand against civilians.. History disagrees.. The Civil War was previously mentioned & have we already forgotten Ohio State - "Tin soldiers & Nixon coming, We're finally on our own.. This summer I hear the drumming, 4 dead in Ohio.. "

I am sorry, but if you _were_ military, than you know that a foot soldier can be shot 'at the scene' for refusing an order - albeit under specific circumstances. Also, most soldiers think themselves superior to ordinary civilians.. an attitude which is encouraged both in & out of the military. This is one of the many _really_ bad things about a jingoistic attitude, not that many conservatives are willing to think (http://www.martincountydemocrats.org/2012/docs_articles/Thinking%20-%20It%20started%20out.html) about it.. To top this off, soldiers are not told 'what is happening', but 'what to do'. The most they 'might' be told is they are 'defending the U.S. against domestic terrorists' - who are now the ongoing, one size fits all, bogeyman. I can't say strongly enough, the "We must protect ourselves with guns" attitude only begets more situations that 'need protecting from". - when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. As Thich Nhat Hanh says, (if you want peace) "Be Peace", which, of course, was pretty much what Christ said.



...
If a BATF agent ever did come knocking...

I thought we'd already settled this one.. Two words, "Ruby Ridge". They don't come 'knocking'.. They come 'shooting'. Welcome to the ongoing slide into hell that is a militaristic state - as dreamed of by Law & Order (screw the compassion!) conservatives everywhere.

Let me repeat the part that some seem to keep missing..


...It would be far better that we put our efforts toward changing society to be more fair to the many & less supportive of the greedy.

enjoy
bobby

wardd
07-24-2012, 08:43 PM
vopos

Durnik
07-24-2012, 09:06 PM
^ Aw, _now_ you gone & done it!

unless your a metal (http://www.vopos.nl/) fan.. ;-)

enjoy
bobby

wardd
07-24-2012, 09:10 PM
the vopos were german and they had no problem gunning other germans down

though i do agree the rank and file troop would have a problem

wardd
07-24-2012, 09:13 PM
i have this formula
1 person would have a problem subduing 10

10 could most likely subdue a 100

100 would have no problem with a 1000

The Bigfella
07-24-2012, 09:18 PM
Yes, I happily registered mine, I'd already got rid of the semi-auto beforehand - so didn't have to hand it in (and be paid compensation), I also happily completed the required safety course for my shooters licence... and I was more than happy to hand over $300 for the gun safe that is bolted to a wall and concrete floor.

My society now has far fewer gun deaths since that occurred 15 years ago. A mere fraction of the number that occurs in the US.

LeeG
07-24-2012, 09:19 PM
what if the british had had gunships?

i have a laugh every time someone hints at they need their guns to preserve liberty

tyrants don't worry about people with guns as they tend to baracade themselves in, they can be dealt with anytime

they go after intellectuals and media outlets first

bingo

bobbys
07-24-2012, 09:39 PM
You seem to be saying the U.S. military would not take a stand against civilians.. History disagrees.. The Civil War was previously mentioned & have we already forgotten Ohio State - "Tin soldiers & Nixon coming, We're finally on our own.. This summer I hear the drumming, 4 dead in Ohio.. "

I am sorry, but if you _were_ military, than you know that a foot soldier can be shot 'at the scene' for refusing an order - albeit under specific circumstances. Also, most soldiers think themselves superior to ordinary civilians.. an attitude which is encouraged both in & out of the military. This is one of the many _really_ bad things about a jingoistic attitude, not that many conservatives are willing to think (http://www.martincountydemocrats.org/2012/docs_articles/Thinking%20-%20It%20started%20out.html) about it.. To top this off, soldiers are not told 'what is happening', but 'what to do'. The most they 'might' be told is they are 'defending the U.S. against domestic terrorists' - who are now the ongoing, one size fits all, bogeyman. I can't say strongly enough, the "We must protect ourselves with guns" attitude only begets more situations that 'need protecting from". - when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. As Thich Nhat Hanh says, (if you want peace) "Be Peace", which, of course, was pretty much what Christ said.




I thought we'd already settled this one.. Two words, "Ruby Ridge". They don't come 'knocking'.. They come 'shooting'. Welcome to the ongoing slide into hell that is a militaristic state - as dreamed of by Law & Order (screw the compassion!) conservatives everywhere.

Let me repeat the part that some seem to keep missing..



enjoy
bobby.

I remember Waco where the Government was so concerned about Firearms they needed to "save the children" by setting the place on fire while setting the fire trucks back.

Course they were the right religion to burn up so it was OK.

Any paranoia is more then likely justified after that.

In fact the same sniper at ruby ridge i believe was at Waco and was never admonished.

Phillip Allen
07-24-2012, 09:50 PM
.

I remember Waco where the Government was so concerned about Firearms they needed to "save the children" by setting the place on fire while setting the fire trucks back.

Course they were the right religion to burn up so it was OK.

Any paranoia is more then likely justified after that.

In fact the same sniper at ruby ridge i believe was at Waco and was never admonished.

I'd give him hell if I could... not physically but I'd let him know what I thought of him and his mother and various fathers

wardd
07-24-2012, 09:53 PM
.

I remember Waco where the Government was so concerned about Firearms they needed to "save the children" by setting the place on fire while setting the fire trucks back.

Course they were the right religion to burn up so it was OK.

Any paranoia is more then likely justified after that.

In fact the same sniper at ruby ridge i believe was at Waco and was never admonished.

then there's the other story that the people inside were kept from leaving while the fire was set inside

i just don't see how nobody escaped from the fire if they were free too

bobbys
07-24-2012, 09:54 PM
I'd give him hell if I could... not physically but I'd let him know what I thought of him and his mother and various fathers.

He committed out right murder.

I forget the details but if I can see if a Buck has 3 points from 200 yards away with a cheap scope he could tell it was a unarmed woman.

Phillip Allen
07-24-2012, 09:59 PM
.

He committed out right murder.

I forget the details but if I can see if a Buck has 3 points from 200 yards away with a cheap scope he could tell it was a unarmed woman.

I'm betting he had a paretty good idea what color her eyes were... what he was doing was playing by trying to kill two 'birds' with one bullet...reckon there was a side bet?

I've played that game with groundhogs when I was young

Durnik
07-24-2012, 10:49 PM
the vopos were german and they had no problem gunning other germans down

though i do agree the rank and file troop would have a problem

My previous comment ("now you gone & done it") was on the applicability of Godwin's law.. ;-)

& I suspect there would be no rank_and_file problems. The leaders know whom to choose from which regions for whatever other regions.. and the 'domestic terrorists' claim will motivate them. As it is, police in this country (who are quite likely ex military as Pipefitter noted) have no problem attacking & killing citizens. It's the conservative, law & order, punish the 'bad' guys mentality.



.

I remember Waco where the Government was so concerned about Firearms they needed to "save the children" by setting the place on fire while setting the fire trucks back.

Course they were the right religion to burn up so it was OK.

Any paranoia is more then likely justified after that.

In fact the same sniper at ruby ridge i believe was at Waco and was never admonished.

If you remember Waco, why have you not learned that creating & supporting a military style police force (which is a conservative response to people trying to 'set things right') is the problem, _not_ the solution? Remember ELF's 'fear' logo? Conservatives (politicians, not voters) like to keep people afraid. Waco was a tool they used.. & you fall for it by wanting more conservatism.. Boggles the mind! Forget paranoia, work toward a more egalitarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism) society!



I'd give him hell if I could... not physically but I'd let him know what I thought of him and his mother and various fathers

Why chastise him (or her). They were only 'following orders', 'doing their job'. Isn't that what conservatives say is so important? OTOH, if you want people to act compassionately, you'd best create a society which encourages compassion.. instead of maintaining one which rewards greed.

You can't fix a problem with the same thinking which created it.

enjoy
bobby

wardd
07-24-2012, 10:51 PM
the vopos were the democratic republic of germany, not nazis

i was referring to the regular army not hand picked and trained units

Durnik
07-24-2012, 11:29 PM
>the vopos were the democratic republic of germany, not nazis

Yea, I was 'reaching' with the Godwin ref.. it just seems that many things ref 'right wing' devolve to some part of Germany.. The GDR was (part of) the successor to the Nazis in many minds.. soo..

as far as regular army.. maybe, maybe not.. but given the existing military style police presence, does it matter? Still, keep New Orleans & Katrina in mind. The military was there with orders to shoot to kill - all with a 'good' excuse.

enjoy
bobby

hanleyclifford
07-25-2012, 07:03 AM
If I remember the news stories correctly, David Koresh went into town almost every day to pick up the mail. He could have been arrested easily and the whole matter avoided.

Phillip Allen
07-25-2012, 07:27 AM
If I remember the news stories correctly, David Koresh went into town almost every day to pick up the mail. He could have been arrested easily and the whole matter avoided.

I understand it was being used as training with new equipment

PeterSibley
07-25-2012, 07:29 AM
The church targeted the native american story tellers first.. the holders of knowledge in an oral tradition culture..

As for civilians resisting a modern army.. Iraqi casualties hover, where, around 100K? - U.S. casualties, around 4K.. with decreasing amounts of other 'participants'. Even U.S. style swat teams kill an extremely high ratio of their targets.. with few matching casualties.. Those who imagine they can 'defend their home against the government' are delusional. Strange how their hero on Ruby Ridge failed.. but they'll succeed.. It would be far better that they put their efforts toward changing society to be more fair to the many & less supportive of the greedy.

enjoy
bobby

What a sane post !

Horace
07-25-2012, 08:14 AM
The church targeted the native american story tellers first.. the holders of knowledge in an oral tradition culture..

As for civilians resisting a modern army.. Iraqi casualties hover, where, around 100K? - U.S. casualties, around 4K.. with decreasing amounts of other 'participants'. Even U.S. style swat teams kill an extremely high ratio of their targets.. with few matching casualties.. Those who imagine they can 'defend their home against the government' are delusional. Strange how their hero on Ruby Ridge failed.. but they'll succeed.. It would be far better that they put their efforts toward changing society to be more fair to the many & less supportive of the greedy.

enjoy
bobby

What a sane post !What a strange post. There were multiple groups targeting and killing each other in Iraq. What kind of scenario are you two envisioning?

This is an interesting comment:
The church targeted the native american story tellers first.. the holders of knowledge in an oral tradition culture..Sounds plausible: what's the historical context? And actual examples?

ChaseKenyon
07-25-2012, 12:43 PM
what if the british had had gunships?

i have a laugh every time someone hints at they need their guns to preserve liberty

tyrants don't worry about people with guns as they tend to baracade themselves in, they can be dealt with anytime

they go after intellectuals and media outlets first


They did.

this was not so successful but still an attempt to deal with that situation.


The Turtle (also called the American Turtle) was the world's first submersible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submersible) with a documented record of use in combat. It was built in Old Saybrook, Connecticut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Saybrook,_Connecticut) in 1775 by American Patriot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_(American_Revolution)) David Bushnell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bushnell) as a means of attaching explosive charges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine) to ships in a harbor.

wardd
07-25-2012, 12:50 PM
>the vopos were the democratic republic of germany, not nazis

Yea, I was 'reaching' with the Godwin ref.. it just seems that many things ref 'right wing' devolve to some part of Germany.. The GDR was (part of) the successor to the Nazis in many minds.. soo..

as far as regular army.. maybe, maybe not.. but given the existing military style police presence, does it matter? Still, keep New Orleans & Katrina in mind. The military was there with orders to shoot to kill - all with a 'good' excuse.

enjoy
bobby

hense the vopos, specially selected and trained units

read up on how the vopos were selected, trained and isolated

wardd
07-25-2012, 12:53 PM
They did.

this was not so successful but still an attempt to deal with that situation.

iirc british warships couldn't fly and chase down the insurgents

then there was the matter of the french navy