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jack grebe
07-23-2012, 06:03 AM
Later today.
What do you think..........

I've heard rumors of shutting the whole program down.

Garret
07-23-2012, 06:25 AM
I know there's talk of what they call the "death penalty" which really should be called a "time out" - shutting to program down for a year or 2. The NCAA is nervous about doing it to big schools because they're so dependent on revenue from the big sports, so this mostly happens to smaller schools. Fair eh?

The Paterno statue at the entrance to the stadium was taken down yesterday. Why on earth wouldn't everyone involved have simply turned Sandusky in to the police? Makes no sense to me - but it ticks me off that many (student & faculty) will suffer for the behavior of a few.

Paul Pless
07-23-2012, 06:35 AM
The NCAA is nervous about doing it to big schools because they're so dependent on revenue from the big sports, so this mostly happens to smaller schools. Fair eh?

The 'death penalty' has only been handed down five times. One of those times was to the most powerful basketball program at the time, the University of Kentucky and the other time was to one of the powerhouse football teams of a decade, SMU.

Garret
07-23-2012, 07:07 AM
Well.... Kentucky was in the early 50's - when sports revenue was a far smaller factor. SMU was a big deal - but they pushed the envelope so far something had to be done:


SMU football had already been placed on three years' probation in 1985 for recruiting violations. At the time, it had been on probation seven times (including five times since 1974), more than any other school in Division I-A.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_%28NCAA%29#cite_note-11)
However, in 1986, SMU faced allegations by whistleblowing player Sean Stopperich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Stopperich) that players were still being paid. An investigation found that 21 players received approximately $61,000 in cash payments, with the assistance of athletic department staff members, from a slush fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slush_fund) provided by a booster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booster_club). Payments ranged from $50 to $725 per month, and started only a month after SMU went on its original probation (though it later emerged that a slush fund had been maintained in one form or another since the mid-1970s). Also, SMU officials lied to NCAA officials about when the payments stopped.
While the school had assured the NCAA that players were no longer being paid, the school's board of governors, led by chairman Bill Clements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clements), decided that the school had to honor previous commitments made to the players. However, under a secret plan adopted by the board, the school would phase out the slush once all players that were still being paid had graduated.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_%28NCAA%29#cite_note-12)



The rest are small schools and/or programs:




The University of Kentucky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Kentucky) basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_Wildcats_men%27s_basketball) program for the 1952–53 season.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_%28NCAA%29#cite_note-College_Basketball_Encyclopedia-0) (Forbade other members from playing them for one year.)
The basketball program at the University of Southwestern Louisiana (now the University of Louisiana at Lafayette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Louisiana_at_Lafayette)) for the 1973–74 and 1974–75 seasons.
The Southern Methodist University football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University_football_scandal) program for the 1987 and 1988 seasons.
The Division II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_II_%28NCAA%29) men's soccer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_soccer) program at Morehouse College (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morehouse_College) for the 2004 and 2005 seasons.
The Division III (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_III_%28NCAA%29) men's tennis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis) program at MacMurray College (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacMurray_College) for the 2005–06 and 2006–07 seasons.



Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_%28NCAA%29

Tom Hunter
07-23-2012, 07:24 AM
"but it ticks me off that many (student & faculty) will suffer for the behavior of a few." Another way of looking at this is that a few young boys suffered so that the entertainment of the many could continue uninterrupted.

John Smith
07-23-2012, 07:34 AM
This is but another example of how many will suffer from the "free will" of a few being exercised. I'm not sure that anyone who wasn't involved in this cover up should be victimized.

My first thought is to fire/jail all those who in some way were actual participants and leave it at that.

I'm not sure what knee jerk overreactions accomplish. If they shut this program down, how does it impact the students who suddenly have no football team, expecially those who might be there on a football scholarship?

A scalpal might be better than a hatchet here. Punishing the guilty is a good idea. Punishing the innocent is not.

Vince Brennan
07-23-2012, 07:38 AM
No matter what, SOMEONE'S ox gets gored in this.

Paterno's family has closed ranks and completely deny JoePa could have had anything to do with anything. So, their ox gets gored when the statues are removed and people give credence to the Freeh Report.

Penn State alumni supporters of JoePa get their ox gored for the same reason and now await their ox' gutting by the NCAA.

Child Abuse activist.... it goes on and on.

EVERYBODY involved in this was wrong.

Completely shutting down the Penn State football program would be a start for some, massive nuclear overkill for others.

However, I can certainly agree with one person I read online: for Sandusky and anyone of his ilk, impalement is too kind a fate.

LeeG
07-23-2012, 07:43 AM
"but it ticks me off that many (student & faculty) will suffer for the behavior of a few." Another way of looking at this is that a few young boys suffered so that the entertainment of the many could continue uninterrupted.

Pretty much.

Garret
07-23-2012, 09:10 AM
"but it ticks me off that many (student & faculty) will suffer for the behavior of a few." Another way of looking at this is that a few young boys suffered so that the entertainment of the many could continue uninterrupted.

And I didn't mean to diminish that in any way. I was referring to how lack of football income will make it more expensive for students & may mean faculty layoffs - all because the football staff (& athletics head) were derelict in their duties.

hokiefan
07-23-2012, 09:27 AM
$60,000,000 fine - roughly one year's revenue from the football program. To be donated to child protection efforts.
All wins vacated from 1998-2010, symbolic but takes Paterno off the top of the all-time win list.
4 years post-season ban, worth another $60-80M.
Reduce allowable scholarships from 25 to 15 for four years.
Any current or incoming player can transfer with sitting out a year.
5 years probations.

The PSU alumni are howling. (Actually I should correct this. The rabid message board fans are howling. The sane ones like my boss are just sad about the whole thing.) The new president has already signed off in agreement.

Bobby

Y Bar Ranch
07-23-2012, 09:31 AM
This is but another example of how many will suffer from the "free will" of a few being exercised. I'm not sure that anyone who wasn't involved in this cover up should be victimized.
I imagine that this same sort of thinking was at play when Paterno, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier decided not to go to the police but instead try to solve the problem "humanely" by keeping it in-house and steering Sandusky to counseling. It would have been terribly messy back in 2001, bringing up all kinds of ugly issues on previous charges and retirement special deals. Think of the blow to the football program and the local economy!

So instead, we had a 14 year grace period where life went on as normal and JP got to 409 victories. Unfortunately, bad news doesn't age well.

PSU has consented to accept the penalties, wisely.

Nicholas Scheuer
07-23-2012, 09:49 AM
"Football will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing, and protecting young people." (Emmert)

Will other sschools get the message? Not that others have Sanduskys lurking in their showers, but there are wide-spread abuses in the name of football.

ahp
07-23-2012, 10:50 AM
When I was a student at the University of Michigan, Michigan law specified that sports revenues could only be spent on sports. Football funded the minor sports, and there were a lot of those. were they important? I don't know.

S/V Laura Ellen
07-23-2012, 11:01 AM
Will other sschools get the message?

Not likely, I think 'we' are destined to relive our past over and over again because 'we' seem to be unable to learn from it.

David W Pratt
07-23-2012, 12:42 PM
My opinion is the cover uppers are more reprehensible than Sandusky. He was/is mentally ill.
Anyone involved in the coverup doesn't have that excuse.
On another topic, what effect will this have on schools that had scheduled, or would have scheduled PS?
What will happen to the TV schedule?

hokiefan
07-23-2012, 12:52 PM
My opinion is the cover uppers are more reprehensible than Sandusky. He was/is mentally ill.
Anyone involved in the coverup doesn't have that excuse.
On another topic, what effect will this have on schools that had scheduled, or would have scheduled PS?
What will happen to the TV schedule?

They didn't get a TV ban, so the games will be played. In a few years Penn State will be pathetic at football so they will be a doormat.

Cheers,

Bobby

David W Pratt
07-23-2012, 01:34 PM
I meant for this fall, surely all those games are scheduled.

Gerarddm
07-23-2012, 05:07 PM
I'm not quite sure what the point of negating the wins was, if only just to stick to Paterno's legacy, but to me instead of that there should have been a complete death penalty for a year or two, plus the other sanctions announced. Athletes can transfer out with no penalty, appropriate.

Bob Costas said a few days ago that if Penn State plays this fall, "something is wrong". We'll see what the new management decides.

hokiefan
07-23-2012, 05:09 PM
I meant for this fall, surely all those games are scheduled.

Penn State will field a team this fall. They may be quite bad but they will play the games, they didn't get the "Death Penalty".

Cheers,

Bobby

StevenBauer
07-23-2012, 06:21 PM
Too little, too late.


Steven

John Smith
07-23-2012, 06:26 PM
$60,000,000 fine - roughly one year's revenue from the football program. To be donated to child protection efforts.
All wins vacated from 1998-2010, symbolic but takes Paterno off the top of the all-time win list.
4 years post-season ban, worth another $60-80M.
Reduce allowable scholarships from 25 to 15 for four years.
Any current or incoming player can transfer with sitting out a year.
5 years probations.

The PSU alumni are howling. (Actually I should correct this. The rabid message board fans are howling. The sane ones like my boss are just sad about the whole thing.) The new president has already signed off in agreement.

Bobby

This really upsets me. Take down his statue; fine. Changing historical records is not fine. Suppose instead of a football coach he worked in a science lab and found a cure for cancer. Would we take his discovery off the market?

Why can't we remember him for being a great coach and a scoundrel? Why does one automaticaly negate the other?

John Smith
07-23-2012, 06:29 PM
I imagine that this same sort of thinking was at play when Paterno, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier decided not to go to the police but instead try to solve the problem "humanely" by keeping it in-house and steering Sandusky to counseling. It would have been terribly messy back in 2001, bringing up all kinds of ugly issues on previous charges and retirement special deals. Think of the blow to the football program and the local economy!

So instead, we had a 14 year grace period where life went on as normal and JP got to 409 victories. Unfortunately, bad news doesn't age well.

PSU has consented to accept the penalties, wisely.

I think all those people involved in the crime and the coverup should be punished. I don't believe other people should be punished for crimes they had no part of. I think fines should be levied against individuals who are responsible. Fining the university will cost people who had nothing to do with this money.

jack grebe
07-23-2012, 06:33 PM
$60,000,000 fine - roughly one year's revenue from the football program. To be donated to child protection efforts.
All wins vacated from 1998-2010, symbolic but takes Paterno off the top of the all-time win list.
4 years post-season ban, worth another $60-80M.
Reduce allowable scholarships from 25 to 15 for four years.
Any current or incoming player can transfer with sitting out a year.
5 years probations.

The PSU alumni are howling. (Actually I should correct this. The rabid message board fans are howling. The sane ones like my boss are just sad about the whole thing.) The new president has already signed off in agreement.

Bobby

That is quite pathetic IMHO, It hurts those players who will suddenly NOT be part of those "Championships" even though
they had nothing to do with why they were "Vacated" to begin with.......It was meant to hurt a dead man.....Stupid!
I really don't believe JoPa really cares about wins and loses at this point.

Money talks, I can see the millions in fines.....or even more.
But doing that just to remove him from the top doesn't make him go away.

I don't want to seem like I'm making light of the offenses, Those that participated should be held accountable. I don't agree
with this sledge hammer approach used though.......It hurts way too many innocents.
Yes, I know those boys will be dealing with this wrong for the rest of their lives, but that will happen regardless of what the
W/L column says.

bobbys
07-23-2012, 06:34 PM
I could care less about college football but i realize some worship it.

Going by Liberals logic here Some Priests were bad, thus Catholicism is bad, thus im a Catholic im bad.

So ALL college football needs to be shut down as all college football is bad.

Thus All people in College need to stop going as there are football programs there and they are bad..

Anyone here ever went to College is a bad person.

Todd D
07-23-2012, 08:02 PM
Well it is just their sports programs. They are periferal to the purpose of the university. I say no loss since it won't impact the academic side of the institution. It may even help it by decreasing the number of "athletes" in classes.

hanleyclifford
07-23-2012, 08:37 PM
I think it's a shame to punish the football program when it's the criminials themselves who need to do some hard time; another case of do-gooder, feel-gooder misplaced outrage.

LeeG
07-23-2012, 08:44 PM
I could care less about college football but i realize some worship it.

Going by Liberals logic here Some Priests were bad, thus Catholicism is bad, thus im a Catholic im bad.

So ALL college football needs to be shut down as all college football is bad.

Thus All people in College need to stop going as there are football programs there and they are bad..

Anyone here ever went to College is a bad person.

I also have no interest in football, college or otherwise. On the other hand your dumbass attempt to politicize logic is sweet unadulterated stupidity, I mean that in the most kindly way.

Paul Pless
07-23-2012, 08:45 PM
Well it is just their sports programs. They are periferal to the purpose of the university. I say no loss since it won't impact the academic side of the institution. It may even help it by decreasing the number of "athletes" in classes.Penn State's football program generated revenue exceeding $100 million last year and made a profit of $53.2 million. That money supports many other programs at Penn State, both athletic and non-athletic. . .

LeeG
07-23-2012, 08:48 PM
Penn State's football program generated revenue exceeding $100 million last year and made a profit of $53.2 million. That money supports many other programs at Penn State, both athletic and non-athletic. . .

That's definitely worth protecting a pedophile.

hokiefan
07-23-2012, 08:49 PM
This really upsets me. Take down his statue; fine. Changing historical records is not fine. Suppose instead of a football coach he worked in a science lab and found a cure for cancer. Would we take his discovery off the market?

Why can't we remember him for being a great coach and a scoundrel? Why does one automaticaly negate the other?


I think all those people involved in the crime and the coverup should be punished. I don't believe other people should be punished for crimes they had no part of. I think fines should be levied against individuals who are responsible. Fining the university will cost people who had nothing to do with this money.


That is quite pathetic IMHO, It hurts those players who will suddenly NOT be part of those "Championships" even though
they had nothing to do with why they were "Vacated" to begin with.......It was meant to hurt a dead man.....Stupid!
I really don't believe JoPa really cares about wins and loses at this point.

Money talks, I can see the millions in fines.....or even more.
But doing that just to remove him from the top doesn't make him go away.

I don't want to seem like I'm making light of the offenses, Those that participated should be held accountable. I don't agree
with this sledge hammer approach used though.......It hurts way too many innocents.
Yes, I know those boys will be dealing with this wrong for the rest of their lives, but that will happen regardless of what the
W/L column says.


I think it's a shame to punish the football program when it's the criminials themselves who need to do some hard time; another case of do-gooder, feel-gooder misplaced outrage.

It is all designed to punish the culture that made Paterno God at Penn State. And every fan plays at least a small part in putting him there, making him all-powerful, to the point where he could overrule the President of the University on turning in a horrific criminal. For worshipping him to the point where he believed his $hlt didn't stink. I love college football, which makes me part of the problem too. But when the football program is more important than the safety of the weakest kids, then the program must be crushed.

Bobby

hanleyclifford
07-23-2012, 08:56 PM
It is all designed to punish the culture that made Paterno God at Penn State. And every fan plays at least a small part in putting him there, making him all-powerful, to the point where he could overrule the President of the University on turning in a horrific criminal. For worshipping him to the point where he believed his $hlt didn't stink. I love college football, which makes me part of the problem too. But when the football program is more important than the safety of the weakest kids, then the program must be crushed.

Bobby This paragraph is loaded with so many false premises and unfounded conclusions it is difficult to know where to begin to answer it. Your judgement is even more out of line than that of the NCAA.

LeeG
07-23-2012, 09:01 PM
This paragraph is loaded with so many false premises and unfounded conclusions it is difficult to know where to begin to answer it. Your judgement is even more out of line than that of the NCAA.

Ok, then just go with the first sentence.

Cuyahoga Chuck
07-23-2012, 09:05 PM
This paragraph is loaded with so many false premises and unfounded conclusions it is difficult to know where to begin to answer it. Your judgement is even more out of line than that of the NCAA.

Ya' never fail to hit the "ad hominem" button hanley. Bobby took the time to lay out his criticisms and you tried to demolish them with some of your habitul gobbldygook. Why is that?

Paul Pless
07-23-2012, 09:07 PM
It is all designed to punish the culture that made Paterno God at Penn State. And every fan plays at least a small part in putting him there, making him all-powerful, to the point where he could overrule the President of the University on turning in a horrific criminal. For worshipping him to the point where he believed his $hlt didn't stink. I love college football, which makes me part of the problem too. But when the football program is more important than the safety of the weakest kids, then the program must be crushed.

BobbyI agree, or want to agree at least. But, I think the decision and the timing were more to serve the NCAA's interest as a governing body (not as an organization promoting the good of college sport), to improve its public image; than it was to punish Penn State or to change Penn State's culture.

hokiefan
07-23-2012, 09:07 PM
This paragraph is loaded with so many false premises and unfounded conclusions it is difficult to know where to begin to answer it. Your judgement is even more out of line than that of the NCAA.

Start laying them out.

Did you read the Freeh report?

Bobby

hanleyclifford
07-23-2012, 09:10 PM
Ok, then just go with the first sentence. It is not established that Paterno was a god at Penn State, certainly not to all. Even if such a statement could be supported it does not follow that the NCAA is anointed to be judge, jury and executioner of an entire university.

hokiefan
07-23-2012, 09:10 PM
I agree, or want to agree at least. But, I think the decision and the timing were more to serve the NCAA's interest as a governing body (not as an organization promoting the good of college sport), to improve its public image; than it was to punish Penn State or to change Penn State's culture.

I think there is at least an element of truth to your point.

Bobby

hokiefan
07-23-2012, 09:15 PM
It is not established that Paterno was a god at Penn State, certainly not to all. Even if such a statement could be supported it does not follow that the NCAA is anointed to be judge, jury and executioner of an entire university.

Did you read the Freeh report? I haven't read all, but much of it. He had more power than the President.

This is anecdotal to be sure, but I work with two Penn State grads, major PSU football fans, who state without thinking about it that "Joe Paterno was Penn State."

And the NCAA was appointed judge, jury, and executioner of the football program by the Presidents of the Universities of the club Penn State freely chose to join. If they don't want this punishment they are free to unjoin.

Bobby

hanleyclifford
07-23-2012, 09:16 PM
Ya' never fail to hit the "ad hominem" button hanley. Bobby took the time to lay out his criticisms and you tried to demolish them with some of your habitul gobbldygook. Why is that? BS, Cuyahoga; my statement is not "ad hominem".

bobbys
07-23-2012, 09:20 PM
I also have no interest in football, college or otherwise. On the other hand your dumbass attempt to politicize logic is sweet unadulterated stupidity, I mean that in the most kindly way..

Well now you know what it feels like to look at the forum and see a Anti Catholic thread all the time from non Catholics...

But yet you never saw anything offensive there didja?

Keith Wilson
07-23-2012, 09:29 PM
I would make college football intramural level only and strike all scholarships... tear down the stadiums and build class rooms... the whole thing is a jokeAmen! Y>Y> Nothing wrong with football per se, but the point of a college is to educate people, not play football.

hanleyclifford
07-23-2012, 09:34 PM
Amen! Y>Y> Nothing wrong with football per se, but the point of a college is to educate people, not play football. I take exception to that Keith; we need college football programs to feed the NFL draft.

B_B
07-23-2012, 10:01 PM
I take exception to that Keith; we need college football programs to feed the NFL draft.
No you don't. The rest of the world, and the NHL and MLB, do really well having a club system for developing talent.

It's just a system. System's can change.

The Div. 1 football and basketball programs are already so far out of touch with University academic reality to lop them off and have them function on their own as for-profit organizations would actually be easier than attempting to maintain the current fallacy.

Keith Wilson
07-23-2012, 10:02 PM
. . . to feed the NFL draft.It would be a terrible hardship, but I think they could manage somehow. http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

LeeG
07-23-2012, 10:37 PM
.

Well now you know what it feels like to look at the forum and see a Anti Catholic thread all the time from non Catholics...

But yet you never saw anything offensive there didja?

You lost me after "well now"

Tom Hunter
07-24-2012, 08:17 AM
Hokiefan has it right.

The Freeh report quotes janitors who witnessed the rape of one boy as saying an attack on Paterno would be like attacking the president of the United States.

hanleyclifford
07-24-2012, 08:24 AM
Hokiefan has it right.

The Freeh report quotes janitors who witnessed the rape of one boy as saying an attack on Paterno would be like attacking the president of the United States. The POTUS gets attacked on a regular basis by the great and the small. If the janitor failed to report a felony what does that make him? I say again; punish the criminals, not the university.

Cuyahoga Chuck
07-24-2012, 08:52 AM
The POTUS gets attacked on a regular basis by the great and the small. If the janitor failed to report a felony what does that make him? I say again; punish the criminals, not the university.


The guys were JANITORS. Got it. Their metaphor was a little crude because they were JANITORS. Their point was fingering Paterno, the most powerful man in State College as well as the most idolized, would be a highly dangerous act.
And, Louie Freeh didn't go there to finger couple of janitors who turned a blind eye because they were fearful for their jobs and maybe their personal safety.

Garret
07-24-2012, 08:52 AM
The POTUS gets attacked on a regular basis by the great and the small. If the janitor failed to report a felony what does that make him? I say again; punish the criminals, not the university.

I agree with that, however, it seems that the culture @ PSU fostered the hiding & denial. There should be some "punishment" for that.

While the folks who perpetrated & hid the acts should be punished to the full extent of the law (& then some), I don't think it's fair that some kid who had no idea what was going on & won a championship by playing his heart out gets that taken away. I also don't think it's fair to the kids presently on the team.

Y Bar Ranch
07-24-2012, 11:47 AM
It is all designed to punish the culture that made Paterno God at Penn State. And every fan plays at least a small part in putting him there, making him all-powerful, to the point where he could overrule the President of the University on turning in a horrific criminal. For worshipping him to the point where he believed his $hlt didn't stink. I love college football, which makes me part of the problem too. But when the football program is more important than the safety of the weakest kids, then the program must be crushed.

Bobby
Being a past and current Penn Stater who works there now, you're pretty much on target in a broad brush way.

Paul Pless
07-24-2012, 11:50 AM
Being a past and current Penn Stater who works there now, you're pretty much on target in a broad brush way.

Idealistically, what do you want to see happen with Penn State's Athletic program going forward? How has this view changed from when you attended to school, through your return as a faculty member, and now post scandal?

hokiefan
07-24-2012, 12:02 PM
Being a past and current Penn Stater who works there now, you're pretty much on target in a broad brush way.

Yeah, it certainly was a broad brush. Having watched our fans' reaction to the Michael Vick stuff, my own included, the culture issues go far beyond Penn State. Penn State happened to have a particularly bad demon, but not the only one by any means. The University will ultimately emerge stronger for this, but the journey will not be an easy one.

Bobby

Y Bar Ranch
07-24-2012, 01:29 PM
Idealistically, what do you want to see happen with Penn State's Athletic program going forward? How has this view changed from when you attended to school, through your return as a faculty member, and now post scandal?
Hmmm...good question. My view hasn't changed, as I've never been a fan in the sense of fanatic. It's always been a fun diversion, nowhere near a life or death issue it is to many.

Pretty much, the recommendations of the Freeh Report are what I'd like to see brought in. A "reintegration" of athletics into the University, so athletes live in the same housing, are held to the same standards of conduct, are basically treated like all the other students. For most of the sports they are. Football was the outlier. Before home games they spend the night in a resort hotel, for example. That's nice, but odd.

For the broader culture, I'd like to see a learned behavior of an automatic aversion to cults emerge. Having a statue up of a guy who is still alive and is still in the job you are idolizing him for was always kind of weird.

In the large sense, I just want it to be not.so.damned.important.

Phillip Allen
07-24-2012, 01:48 PM
"For the broader culture, I'd like to see a leaned behavior of an automatic aversion to cults emerge. Having a statue up of a guy who is still alive and is still in the job you are idolizing him for was always kind of weird."

Saddam got to have statues of himself!

Garret
07-24-2012, 05:02 PM
Hmmm...good question. My view hasn't changed, as I've never been a fan in the sense of fanatic. It's always been a fun diversion, nowhere near a life or death issue it is to many.

Pretty much, the recommendations of the Freeh Report are what I'd like to see brought in. A "reintegration" of athletics into the University, so athletes live in the same housing, are held to the same standards of conduct, are basically treated like all the other students. For most of the sports they are. Football was the outlier. Before home games they spend the night in a resort hotel, for example. That's nice, but odd.

For the broader culture, I'd like to see a learned behavior of an automatic aversion to cults emerge. Having a statue up of a guy who is still alive and is still in the job you are idolizing him for was always kind of weird.

In the large sense, I just want it to be not.so.damned.important.

Years ago (early 70's) I spent some time in Fayetteville, AR - home of the University of. A friend was on the football team & had me over to the football dorm a few times. Rooms easily double the size of other dorms with tv's and stereos supplied, their own cafeteria, where they not only had true chefs, but where you could order anything you wanted (OK maybe not foie gras) & it was brought to your table by white jacketed (black of course) waiters. Tutors available for any subject at any time ("Will you write my paper for me?") & parking right next to the dorm for their fancy cars that all seemed to come from local dealers even though the players came from all over.

The players had a "we deserve this" attitude that blew me away. Unfortunately, the school seemed to agree.

I can agree 100% with the "I just want it to be not.so.damned.important" sentiment. I also think that academic standards for athletes need to be identical to those of other students & that all the perks should disappear. I enjoy college football - but it needs to change. So does college basketball, but I never watch the sport.

Gerarddm
07-24-2012, 06:33 PM
[QUOTE]Changing historical records is not fine. Suppose instead of a football coach he worked in a science lab and found a cure for cancer. Would we take his discovery off the market?[QUOTE]

NYTimes op-ed piece today said the same thing, that to expunge the win-loss record is Orwellian. I tend to agree.

B_B
07-24-2012, 06:38 PM
Changing historical records is not fine. Suppose instead of a football coach he worked in a science lab and found a cure for cancer. Would we take his discovery off the market?

NYTimes op-ed piece today said the same thing, that to expunge the win-loss record is Orwellian. I tend to agree.
Ben Johnson won the 100 meter sprint in Seoul in 1988!

Edit: The only reason Penn State covered stuff up was to preserve the way they were perceived, the "Paterno Way".

That esteem lead directly to the win-loss record (recruiting ability), lead directly to their marketability, lead to their successful fundraising efforts, lead to Paterno's book sales, lead to TV revenue, etc.

Phillip Allen
07-24-2012, 08:56 PM
Years ago (early 70's) I spent some time in Fayetteville, AR - home of the University of. A friend was on the football team & had me over to the football dorm a few times. Rooms easily double the size of other dorms with tv's and stereos supplied, their own cafeteria, where they not only had true chefs, but where you could order anything you wanted (OK maybe not foie gras) & it was brought to your table by white jacketed (black of course) waiters. Tutors available for any subject at any time ("Will you write my paper for me?") & parking right next to the dorm for their fancy cars that all seemed to come from local dealers even though the players came from all over.

The players had a "we deserve this" attitude that blew me away. Unfortunately, the school seemed to agree.

I can agree 100% with the "I just want it to be not.so.damned.important" sentiment. I also think that academic standards for athletes need to be identical to those of other students & that all the perks should disappear. I enjoy college football - but it needs to change. So does college basketball, but I never watch the sport.

I've lived here (Fayetteville/Springdale) for 63 years with a few adventures elsewhere. Everyone here knows about the lies and deceit... I quit being a fan of the Arkansas Raper-backs a long time ago. That said, if I complain, all I get is comments like Glen and wardd make to me... people really want their delusions