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cckl
07-16-2012, 03:23 PM
All thoughts and comments and experience welcome ! I may be in over my head !
(apologies if i use the wrong terms, I'm just learning - this is my first sailboat)

-Recently picked up a wooden 14' enterprise ( c. 1970's built in Philly) Had been stored dry, but not sailed for almost 2 years.
-When put in water, we had leaks pouring in through the centerboard trunk / case, though the rest of the hull seemed fine.
-Removed centerboard case to discover gasket / bedding completely shot
-The case wood seemed completely sound, but the some of the keel (?) which is directly under the case is spongy.

So , I will attempt to repair - I have no experience, but the boat seems pieced together so prettily that I thought I could give it a shot.

Questions :

Adhesive or not ?
Assuming gasket material won't come with stickyback, do i have to stick it to keel 1st ? + pre drill holes for screws ? ( so that is lined up with old holes )
I hesitate to use adhesive that would preclude future maintenance/ repair. Should I glue the gasket to the keel and the cb case just rests atop it before being screwed back down ?
If so - what sort of adhesive ? I have been recommended 5200 , but it seems that sets hard and tight, 4200 according to the 3m website : Forms a watertight seal on joints and boat hardware above and below the waterline. Formulated to allow for disassembly of parts.
or dolphonite ?




Build Up -
after sanding away the wood on the keel piece which is spongy , I'll need to build back up with epoxy or something to make flush with the rest. - I have had 5200 reccomended or epoxy with filler. Is there someother material I should use or stay away from ?

Varnishing:
while bits are seeing daylight now that typically wouldn't, it seems a good time to sand and varnish a bit.
1 - centerboard trunk - and a varnish the whole box, but without disassembling it. After screwing back in place -should I varnish over again ? ontop of the screw heads ?
2- keel piece - sand and varnish anything on interior side of hull that is being worked on or newly exposed. - but if i use adhesive to place gasket, will presence of varnish compromise adhesive ?


( having troubles with my flickr hosted images posting. so no pics for the moment, but hope to post some soon )

Peerie Maa
07-16-2012, 03:44 PM
How bad is "spongy". How deep is the damage (don' pick any out, probe with an ice pick or awl)? You may not have to remove any wood it it is not more than surface degradation, but may be able to stabilise it with low viscosity epoxy. If it is deep, you would be better to cut it out and fit a wood dutchman. we need to know how bad or not it is befor we can advise you. Pictures are always helpful, I use Photobucket and have no problem linking to photos.

cckl
07-16-2012, 04:53 PM
http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p559/cckl1/CB.jpg

cckl
07-16-2012, 04:54 PM
http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p559/cckl1/KeelBit.jpg

cckl
07-16-2012, 04:55 PM
http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p559/cckl1/SectionDIagram.jpg

cckl
07-16-2012, 04:57 PM
http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p559/cckl1/5L65E65J83L73N23H7c6r301f7ea06a601404.jpg

cckl
07-16-2012, 04:58 PM
http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p559/cckl1/headless.jpg

cckl
07-16-2012, 05:04 PM
- many thanks for the Photobucket tip !

- The rot seems to go about 1/2 or 1/3 of the thickness of the top piece. not all the way through. - length is about 10-12" long
- I don't think I could make a dutchman - but I could probably find someone who could. - would that perform differently from an epoxy or composite filling the gap ?

cckl
07-16-2012, 05:06 PM
Note: my diagram is probably wrong, I'm just trying to figure it out. I would love to find drawings of the boat, but no luck so far...

Peerie Maa
07-16-2012, 05:06 PM
http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p559/cckl1/KeelBit.jpg
Those are keel bands, usually brass half oval. If you have lost 1/2 or 1/3 of the thickness of the keel, you must scarf in a dutchman or replace the keel. Boat in a can will be too stiff and brittle and will not behave like the rest of the keel, leading to failure.

Peerie Maa
07-16-2012, 05:10 PM
Note: my diagram is probably wrong, I'm just trying to figure it out. I would love to find drawings of the boat, but no luck so far...
I don't think that drawings were ever available as they are one design class boats not for amateur build.

cckl
07-16-2012, 05:11 PM
the piece of wood is about 1.5" deep, the soft part seems to be about the first .5"
I have not taken a sander to it yet.

Peerie Maa
07-16-2012, 05:17 PM
the piece of wood is about 1.5" deep, the soft part seems to be about the first .5"
I have not taken a sander to it yet.
Good, you are better using a router, it will give you control of the depth of cut so that the piece that you glue in will have a good flat glue surface to bond to. Sanders are for removing paint and the rust from vintage chisels :D You will need to cut shallow scarf faces at the ends of the dutchman, 1:6 gradient minimum or 1:8 to 1:12.

John Meachen
07-16-2012, 05:27 PM
I don't think that drawings were ever available as they are one design class boats not for amateur build.

Drawings used to be available,I had some and they were spread over quite a few sheets.The design was originally sponsored by the "News Chronicle" newspaper and they were keen to get boats built.Now that the Enterprise is an International class and subject to ISAF control,things may have changed.The class association may be able to help with specific questions http://www.sailenterprise.co.uk/ . Alternatively,there is quite a repository of knowledge at http://www.cvrda.org/wp-cvrda/ .

I would echo Nick's comment about the need for a scarf at the ends of a repair piece.

rbgarr
07-16-2012, 05:46 PM
Nice boat. I used to race in them back in the sixties when I was a mere teen. You'll have fun and get pretty wet, wherever you are.

cckl
07-16-2012, 06:02 PM
Should I caulk and or varnish the the seams after I put the trunk back in place ?

cckl
07-17-2012, 11:55 AM
sorry, 'Boat in a can' = epoxy filler ?

Peerie Maa
07-17-2012, 12:19 PM
sorry, 'Boat in a can' = epoxy filler ?
Used to be polyester filler AKA Car in a Can or car body filler. The epoxy version with microballoons is fine for fairing, wood flour filler is OK for smaller dings but not as a structural repair.

cckl
07-17-2012, 01:02 PM
gotcha -

wizbang 13
07-17-2012, 02:59 PM
I,of course,wrule grind the daylights out of the top of the inner keel and trunk bottom ,chop off the old bed logs and sAwzall in a long dutchie,set the trunk in epoxy,then run a fat fat filet of 403all along the bottom.

cckl
07-17-2012, 03:12 PM
Having never routered anything before, I'm going to try to find someone else to do it. Below, an image to illustrate how I see it working - again , I have no experience to go on here...

cckl
07-17-2012, 03:15 PM
http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p559/cckl1/PatchDiagram.jpg

wizbang 13
07-17-2012, 10:15 PM
The ends need tapering out,either dimension. house carpenters use routers.boatbuilders use saws.

AndyG
07-18-2012, 06:24 AM
Just an aside. Those brass rubbing strips on the bottom and each side of the centreboard slot hold - in every Enterprise I've ever seen - a flexible strip in place which helps seal the slot when the board's in. My Enterprise used a thin strip of old buoyancy bag, doubled over, with the long edges held under the brass.

You've a good-looking boat there. Thanks for taking the time to fix her up!

Andy

cckl
07-20-2012, 01:35 PM
- Hi , I have been trying to get together the parts needd for this -
can anyone give me advice re: bedding centerboard trunk ?

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to Glue it and ad a gasket between keel bands and keel , or if the gasket serves as the seal ?
see illustration ....

any help appreciated

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p559/cckl1/CBGasketComparison.jpg

John Meachen
07-20-2012, 05:19 PM
The second one is close to the way that the keen racing sailors would do it.For thirty years or so the majority have been using slot gaskets made from a doubled layer of sailcloth.The two halves should meet or even overlap by a tiny fraction.

AndyG
06-22-2013, 03:58 PM
^ What John says.

Andy