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View Full Version : The global economy, and ours



John Smith
06-02-2012, 07:40 AM
One of the things that concerns me is the negative impact on our economy what is happening elsewhere in the world will have.

I've frequently expressed concerns about blaming the president, whomever he is, for gas prices, as that's one of those things he really has little or no control over, although many people seem to believe he does.

If the European economy fails badly, and that drags our economy down, some will blame our president for our economy doing worse, others will credit him if it fairs better than the economy across the pond.

Obviously our president has no control over what the countries over there do. There's also little he can do to shield us from the impact their failure has on our country.

I suppose one could make an argument that if we had not exported so much of our manufacturing, their problems might not affect us as much, and/or that we'd be in a better position helping them rebuild. That's a deeper discussion.

I think it is important that the debate here makes some effort to hold the incumbant president responsible for things he had control over, and not those things he has no control over.

Areas that I see dishonesty in is the statement that he had "control" of all three branches when he did not have the votes to overcome a filibuster, or the same people who admitted Bush had no control over gas prices blaming Obama for when they go up, etc.

It is fair to oppose his escalation of the Afghan war, but dishonest to say he campaigned saying he wouldn't.

I've frequently asked which policies he's actually gotten through the congress, and how they've hurt us, but seem to be ignored by those who keep talking about his policies hurting us.

We see people concerned about voter fraud who can't seem to cite examples of it. I hear people talk about all the job killing regulations he's put into place, without getting specific.

I was among those who wrote that high gas prices were not Bush's fault when they rose under his administration. I was also among those who claimed he was lying about the WMD's and Saddam's involvement in 9/11. I have criticized Obama for some of the decisions he's made I disagree with, but I think others criticize him simply because he is who he is.

Rumsfeld has now weighed in on the decision to kill Bin Laden. Funny, Wasn't Rumsfeld among the group who made the decision to stop searching for him?

to bring this back to the economy and Europe, I find it hard for an honest man to believe Europe's economy can fail without having a negative impact on our economy. Our president and our congress can't change that. The best they can do is keep that negative impact to a minimum, and we may well have to judge not whether our economy suffered from Europe's problems, but whether we suffer more or less than we might have.

Whatever else this board is, it seems to be a microcosm of the larger population. I'm interested to see where the Obama haters will be honest as to what he can and cannot control.

Donn
06-02-2012, 07:55 AM
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/cwl/lowres/cwln2113l.jpg

Peter Kalshoven
06-02-2012, 08:09 AM
One of the things that concerns me is the negative impact on our economy what is happening elsewhere in the world will have.


Interesting sentence structure. Alcohol based, or is English your second language? :)

PeterSibley
06-02-2012, 08:09 AM
A comment of your usual standard Donn.

John Smith
06-02-2012, 08:26 AM
Interesting sentence structure. Alcohol based, or is English your second language? :)

Actually, I thought Churchill might have been proud.

RodSBT
06-02-2012, 09:32 AM
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/cwl/lowres/cwln2113l.jpg


Cracks me up!:d:d:d

Peter Kalshoven
06-02-2012, 12:31 PM
Actually, I thought Churchill might have been proud.

LOL! Probably!

purri
06-02-2012, 08:38 PM
Actually, I thought Churchill might have been proud.
How does it rate on the Gunning Fog Index?

skipper68
06-02-2012, 11:16 PM
Great post-yet no real answers. The evil is in all of them. Vote for the least to have power..The one who has it, will USE it.

WX
06-03-2012, 05:30 AM
You can't have a global economy and ours, you are part of the global economy.

John Smith
06-03-2012, 09:04 AM
I'm disappointed in the lack of serious responses here. We are part of a global economy. The collapse on Wall Street's impact did not end out the ocean fronts.

What happens here affects what happens there and visa versa. In the past, we've had many posts that pointed out our position relative to the rest of the world, such as life exectancy, infant mortality, murder rates, percentage of people in prison, etc.

I think our our economy is doing relative to how other economies are doing may be a more honest comparison that comparing it to how we would like our economy to be doing.

We live in a very complex world. I think that the best thing we can do before we cast a vote in November is be honest with ourselves as to what problems the president is able to do much with and hold him responsible for, or give him credit for, those things that are actually within his control.

As an example, if our unemployment rates are higher than we'd like, but lower than those in most of the world, how should we view that?

skuthorp
06-03-2012, 09:27 AM
The US sets itself apart when it suits and I can understand that given your history. But given your place in the world's economy it's a pity that it comes and goes with different administrations.

John Smith
06-03-2012, 10:20 AM
The US sets itself apart when it suits and I can understand that given your history. But given your place in the world's economy it's a pity that it comes and goes with different administrations.

On of the things that truly upsets me is listening to all the talking heads of all political persuations talk as if outsourcing our jobs is a recent undertaking. This has been going on for decades and while many have been upset over the years at how much oil we import, few have been concerned about the amount of goods: cars, stereos, toasters, etc. that we import.

Hard to have manufacturing jobs here when we sent them all over there.

We cannot lie to ourselves, vote based on false premises, and hope to improve things.

Gerarddm
06-03-2012, 10:33 AM
I think your last sentence pretty much describe the usual state of affairs. We can and indeed do do that all the time. Alas.

John Smith
06-04-2012, 03:44 PM
I think your last sentence pretty much describe the usual state of affairs. We can and indeed do do that all the time. Alas.

We can do it, but to do so and expect better results is foolish.

I watched a bit of "Meet the Press" last night. It's rerun on one of the many odd channels. Governor Kasich of Ohio seems to think the auto bail out didn't help his state much.

Seems to me an honest man would say we have "x" number of jobs directly or indirectly related to the auto industry help, we have "x" number of jobs thanks to stimulus money we got, and we have "x" number of jobs due to the following things we did independent of those things.

Lying for political gain is not free speech, and we accept it as so at our own peril.

skuthorp
06-04-2012, 06:36 PM
Well europe is on a slide to another recession if not worse, and that will effect the rest of us. The US is not in a strong position to resist a similar fate.

John Smith
06-05-2012, 06:59 AM
Well europe is on a slide to another recession if not worse, and that will effect the rest of us. The US is not in a strong position to resist a similar fate.
This is true. What happens there affects what happens here.

My problem is that the partisanship is so strong today that the Republicans won't admit this. My point is that someone needs to made some effort to educate the public. Maybe a network doing a show on how all this is connected would help, assuming anyone would watch it.

Maybe the president should address the nation, similar to what he did with Rev. Wright, and try to explain how all this is connected, how the path Europe is taking hasn't worked so well, etc.

A couple of months ago, there was a humorous, but not really funny, video of Fox News people excusing Bush for high gas prices, and explaining how the president had no control, but blaming Obama for high gas prices as if it was his fault.

I was among those during Bush's presidency who did not blame him for high gas prices. I did chuckle at his "just jawboning his friends" to keep them down, but I accept the president has very little control over many things. To make a football analogy, the quarterback frequently gets more credit or blame than he deserves. It's hard to throw the ball when your line gives you no time and your lying on our back. If you do throw the ball where it belongs, and your receiver doesn't catch it,........ you get the idea.

I'm not going to post it again, as it's been here a few times, but Jon Stuart's interview with Betsy McCaully (?) who started the "death panel" thing was brilliant. She kept pointing to the page and telling us what it said, He grabbed the page and read it twice. It was nothing like she had presented it.

This is where our media lets us down, and we let it. Any "news" outlet should have taken that page and actually read it to the public as Stuart did. What good is the right to know the truth, if no one has any obligation to tell the truth?

When, for example, Romney makes a statement that it was a no brainer decision to kill Bin Laden, his previsous statement that he would look for Bin Laden should be automatically included in the report by any network.