Varnish vs. Deks Olje vs Cetol

[Yairi1]

I'm having a new Melonseed Skiff built and haven't decided how to finish the teak brightwork. The builder thinks varnish is a bad choice for teak - he is recommending Cetol. Though, I'm not thrilled with the way Cetol looks on my other boat, as it muddies the fine teak grain. Any thoughts on those two products and/or Deks Olje? The boat will be stored indoors, on a trailer. Thanks!

[sawcutmill]

Epifanes- wood gloss finish for first 4 coats ,thinned... then Epifanes High UV High Gloss for next 4-6 coats! stephen
PS cetol is for fibeglass boats!

[Yairi1]

The builder's exact comments were: "Teak and varnish hate each other! BAD marriage! The teak blisters and is miserable to maintain." What say you to this? My only experience with varnish is on my mahogany kayak.

[N. Scheuer]

Got Melon Seed! Got Deks, too!

My SIMPLE GIFT is a cedar lapstrake Melon Seed (built by others) with a complete Crawford rig. Only the spars and tiller are finished bright. The hull is either painted or bare wood; a very "workboat" finish.

I bought the mast and spars unfinished (the boat was perchased used, without spars) and I applied several coats of Deks #1 followed by six coats of Deks #2. I couldn't be happier with the result.

Some years ago (when I owned a Dovekie with Spruce spars, and was having trouble with the durability of Captain's Varnish) another Dovkie friend (experienced with wooden boats) told me that he liked Deks much better than regular varnish because it has a softer surface which is easier to "touch up" dings and scratches midway through the season.

In applying many coats of Deks to the Dovekie spars, and also to the Doug Fir Leeboards I constructed, I discovered that one of my problems with the earlier Captains Varnish was probably just not enough coats. I used to think two coats were fine (little did I know).

I go both ways on Teak. Our Shearwater Yawl(replaced the Dovekie) has teak here and there on the exterior which is in the process of going natural after being varnished when built nineteen years ago. The Teak on the interior is oiled with Deks #1. The Ash tiller is kept brighjt with Deks #1 & #2.

One trick I've learned is to always apply Deks #2 under a polyethylene "tent" hung from the rafters of either my Garage or basement workshop; otherwise the finish piks up too much dust falling from the rafters.

If using Deks, follow the directions to the letter. For instance, when lightly sanding finish coats of #2 prior to applying the next coat, "wet sand" by first dipping the "fine" emory paper into a dish of Deks #1.

Enjoy the Melonseed, Yairi.

Moby Nick

[N. Scheuer]

Are you buying (or have you already bought) a Crawford Boat? Roger Crawford certainly knows his way around wooden boat building.

It comes to mind that I have not actually ever varnished Teak. I usually oil it, or leave it turn "natural". My experience with Deks is all with Spruce, Ash, Mahogany, or Doug Fir.

You might just try Deks#1 on your boat for a year. It will be easy to apply an additional coat midway through the season, if warranted. If you are not pleased with the result, it will be easy to refinish with something else over the winter.

One finish that has worked very well on a pair of Teak Ckeats on our Shearwater is simply a 50%-50% mixture of Linseed oil and Terpentine (not Mineral Spirits, real Terpentine). I left the cleats soak in a coffee can for a week; SMELLED UP HALF THE BACK YARD. The resulting finish was dark and rich in color, and has never required refinishing after four years.

Have fun, Moby Nick

[Yairi1]

I'm a bit hesitant to admit, on the Wooden Boat forum, that I'm buying a glass boat. Yes, I've put a deposit down on a Crawford boat. What can I say... they're beautiful and practical, if not wooden. I just don't have the time or money for a wooden sailboat right now. I'm slowly easing my way into wooden boats, after owning 2 glass boats, and a plastic kayak. Now, I'll have the MS (which looks like a wooden boat) and 2 Pygmy kayaks. A San Juan dory (all wood) is next on the list.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with various products. Can anyone comment on Deks or varnish on teak?

[Mike Vogdes]

If you are storing your boat on a trailer indoors then your will get the maximum out of a nice varnish job over your teak. No doubt about it, varnish over teak looks great, but it doesn't hold up as well as Cetol. Cetol done properly looks very good. I agree with your builder.

[Yairi1]

Also, I'd be interested in what folks have to say about a varnish-over-epoxy finish, as on my kayaks.

[FSS172]

You may want to take a look at Rebecca Whitman's excellent book 'Brightwork, The Art of FInishing Wood'. She references the belief that teak won't take and hold a varnish finish but calls it hogwash. She details her methods - proven over many years as a professional yacht finisher. It's a great reference. My own experience in this area comes from several years helping a friend maintain his bright-hulled 42' yawl - planking and all trim varnished teak. Properly prepared and maintained, the finish was gorgeous - and durable on a boat that lived outdoors year-round on the Chesapeake.

http://www.dickinson.edu/departments/drama/public/maid.jpg

We used Z-Spar Captain's, and I'd guess the finish depth averaged about 10 coats. We tried to get a couple of refresher coats on it each season...

[pcford]

I'm having a new Melonseed Skiff built and haven't decided how to finish the teak brightwork. The builder thinks varnish is a bad choice for teak - he is recommending Cetol. Though, I'm not thrilled with the way Cetol looks on my other boat, as it muddies the fine teak grain. Any thoughts on those two products and/or Deks Olje? The boat will be stored indoors, on a trailer. Thanks! Cetol is ugly, nasty stuff. Case closed.Deks Olje is ok but cannot compare to a varnished surface. Varnish works fine on teak.
???
Don't want to be a wise guy, but don't know if I would feel good about having a boat built by a guy with such off the mark opinions.

[N. Scheuer]

Well, pcford, I'dd match my Decks #1 & #2 finished Spruce spars against anybody's varnish work. Ditto for the Deks finished Doug Fir leeboards we had on the Dovekie, PIL-PEL.

As I posted earlier, Roger Crawford is a First Class Wooden Boat Builder. In recommending Cetol (I'm certainly no fan of that stuff) he may have been more concerned with how often a new Melonseed Owner SAILS the boat instead of REVARNISHING it, though I can't accurately speak for him.

Moby Nick

[Yairi1]

Thanks, gents. Sounds like there are as many opinions on this subject as there are sailors out there. I suppose each of us have different desires and expectations with respect to our brightwork.

In general, I think the MS crowd is more into sailing than laboring. That's the whole point of the MS - to get back to the basics of sailing and have fun. Also, recall the MS's ancestry as a workboat and it almost seems silly to adorn her with 11 coats of varnish. I plan to sail her often, camp and hunt from her, and generally enjoy God's gift of wind and water. When I'm done, I don't want to spend an inordinate amount of time fussing over blemishes in the finish. A little "character" is OK. That's not to say I want a workboat finish, but I don't need a show-girl to have fun either.

So, I'm perhaps leaning toward an oiled finish to begin with (Deks or similar) and seeing how I like it. I suppose that leaves the option of varnishing at a later date (with the proper preparation). Cetol is definitely OUT in my opinion. Sorry, Roger.

By the way, Roger Crawford builds BEAUTIFUL boats.

[Don Kurylko]

Daly’s Seafin Teak Oil. I like the stuff a lot. If you are going to keep your boat covered when not in use, then I think you would like this product. It has a very nice finish and, as the coats build up over time, it takes on an absolutely exquisite luster. It does not darken appreciably with age like linseed oil and it is dead simple to maintain. Check out their website for details. http://www.dalyspaint.com/

[Andrew S/Y Rocquette]

Teak takes varnish very well indeed if properly done and maintained - start with thinned coats and build up AND REGULARLY MAINTAIN the finish as necessary.

Nothing beats the final look of traditional varnish, but it does come at a cost in upkeep. As is most things in life, it depends on what you want and are prepared to put into it - i.e. how important is the final look in the great scheme of things?

As she's to be stored and dry-sailed, from what you say, you have pretty much the optimum conditions for varnishing teak. But if you want a low-maintenance finish, go for a product with less work.

Personally, I think it's worth it for the varnish...