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View Full Version : John Boehner: Raising Debt Limit Is An 'Action-Forcing Event'



mikefrommontana
05-15-2012, 12:55 PM
It worked so well last time--let's do it again! Political grandstanding at it's finest.....


Republicans alarmed by the depth of cuts on tap for the Pentagon are scrambling to replace them, but Democrats say they will only agree to undo the defense cuts in exchange for higher taxes on the wealthy. Boehner’s remarks suggest that Republicans believe they have leverage, too, and that they are willing to resist a needed increase in the debt limit unless Democrats agree to far-reaching changes to federal health programs such as Medicare and Medicaid.
Higher taxes, however, are still off the table, a Boehner aide said.
“We shouldn’t dread the debt limit,” Boehner will say Tuesday. “ We should welcome it. It’s an action-forcing event in a town that has become infamous for inaction.”


So, not sure what the Republican party intends to wring out of the debt limit debate this time around, but would imagine they want to make the Bush tax cuts permanent. If things go like last time, could it tip the global economy in the toilet?

Full article in the Washington Post (Huffy has it too): http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/boehner-sees-battle-over-debt-limit-as-action-forcing-event/2012/05/15/gIQAHQIFQU_blog.html

pefjr
05-15-2012, 01:02 PM
Here we go again. Insane fiscal policy from the inaction committee . Yes, it is action forcing, it means more Tea Party influence in Congress and more TP votes in Nov.

wardd
05-15-2012, 01:15 PM
it worked well for them under clinton

TomF
05-15-2012, 01:18 PM
Y'know, were I an American Democrat, I'd almost be willing to hope Romney would win in November.

And then stare down his own Rep caucus on cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, no taxes sufficient to cover Congressionally passed programs, no significant cuts to Defence spending, and no debt ceiling changes.

For yes, Boehner and the TP are all Reps. And were they given the power to govern rather than simply the power to obstruct, they'd have to eat their words.

I'd almost wish that. But such games of chicken are sufficient to ignite yet another global financial crisis, and we're teetering on the brink as it is.

Tall Boy
05-15-2012, 01:29 PM
You'd think these guys would have learned a lesson. The last time the GOP decided to hold up the nation for ransom, they didn't do their brand much good.... more like, they damaged themselves.

Fascinating, it's like the mid term election never happened............

pefjr
05-15-2012, 01:34 PM
Fascinating, it's like the mid term election never happened............"hard headed " doesn't even describe the condition. It is quite often "fascinating".

John of Phoenix
05-15-2012, 01:36 PM
Y'know, were I an American Democrat, I'd almost be willing to hope Romney would win in November.

And then stare down his own Rep caucus on cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, no taxes sufficient to cover Congressionally passed programs, no significant cuts to Defence spending, and no debt ceiling changes.

For yes, Boehner and the TP are all Reps. And were they given the power to govern rather than simply the power to obstruct, they'd have to eat their words.

I'd almost wish that. But such games of chicken are sufficient to ignite yet another global financial crisis, and we're teetering on the brink as it is.In the very recent past, republicans, however ignorantly, have enthusiastically, even gleefuly, run the world's economy to the brink ruin. They have learned Not - A - Thing from the experience. To return them to power would invite them to finish the carnage.

wardd
05-15-2012, 01:37 PM
i almost hope the republicans take all 3 branches and do away with the filibuster

the one thing that worries me is 4 years to work on voter suppression

TomF
05-15-2012, 01:45 PM
Y'know, I said in the runup to the 2008 election that I simply could not imagine why any Dem would even want to take a run at the Presidency, considering. That holds truer now than ever. I'm only happy that I've been proved wrong on one count - I'd thought Obama would have been shot by now.

John of Phoenix
05-15-2012, 01:45 PM
You'd think these guys would have learned a lesson. The last time the GOP decided to hold up the nation for ransom, they didn't do their brand much good.... more like, they damaged themselves.


Fascinating, it's like the mid term election never happened............
The mid terms were Nov 2010. The budget debacle was triggered by the tea party freshmen who were elected during that election. They're the ones most responsible for "damagaing the brand" not that Boehner did any good either.

How do you come to the conslusion that "it's like the mid term election never happened" when the tp freshmen were the proximate cause of the problem?

pefjr
05-15-2012, 01:46 PM
In the very recent past, republicans, however ignorantly, have enthusiastically, even gleefuly, run the world's economy to the brink ruin. They have learned Not - A - Thing from the experience. To return them to power would invite them to finish the carnage.recent past? hmmm... Will some one wake up John, and bring him up to date.

John of Phoenix
05-15-2012, 01:51 PM
2012 - 2008 = 4 years.

Are you math challenged too?

pefjr
05-15-2012, 01:53 PM
Strange how John lays the blame on 70 TP Congressmen, the most responsible of the 535 Congressmen. :D Obama thought he had pushed this problem past the elections. He may have to compromise now, and sign a Balanced Budget Amendment to stay in office.

Mrleft8
05-15-2012, 01:57 PM
recent past? hmmm... Will some one wake up John, and bring him up to date.

Wake up john..... Junior wants to take you on a date.

John of Phoenix
05-15-2012, 02:01 PM
My first criteria has always been "brains". He's not my type.

Tall Boy
05-15-2012, 02:02 PM
They're the ones most responsible for "damagaing the brand"

Damaging the brand? How....cuz the libs say so??

John of Phoenix
05-15-2012, 02:06 PM
Damaging the brand? How....cuz the libs say so??Right, right, the reputation of the GOP has never been better. "We create our own reality." Carry on.

Tall Boy
05-15-2012, 02:17 PM
My first criteria has always been "brains". He's not my type.
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9JkgKGFTRXSGO2X5TnA1Qe4IZnN_4k IazJBpjmYK7Ah15eW8S She wants you now.........

pefjr
05-15-2012, 02:18 PM
My first criteria has always been "brains". He's not my type.Can I put my phone back on the hook?

TomF
05-15-2012, 02:18 PM
Damaging the brand? How....cuz the libs say so??Oh dear.

Look at the debacle and embarassment of the GOP Primaries, and please explain how the TP and similarly ideologically driven Republican splinter factions have not damaged the brand.

Alternatively, please show me a poll which lays the majority of responsibility for the quagmire in Washington at the Dems' feet.

Tall Boy
05-15-2012, 02:27 PM
Alternatively, please show me a poll which lays the majority of responsibility for the quagmire in Washington at the Dems' feet.

No poll needed, it's simply cuz the republican's say so..............

John of Phoenix
05-15-2012, 02:27 PM
Oh dear.

Look at the debacle and embarassment of the GOP Primaries, and please explain how the TP and similarly ideologically driven Republican splinter factions have not damaged the brand.

Alternatively, please show me a poll which lays the majority of responsibility for the quagmire in Washington at the Dems' feet.And when you're done with that...

How do you come to the conslusion that "it's like the mid term election never happened" when the tp freshmen were the proximate cause of the problem?

John of Phoenix
05-15-2012, 02:32 PM
No poll needed, it's simply cuz the republican's say so.............. It's no wonder you're always losing to a pair of twos.

TomF
05-15-2012, 02:32 PM
No poll needed, it's simply cuz the republican's say so..............A renowned wellspring of Truthiness, eh? :D

Tall Boy
05-15-2012, 02:35 PM
A renowned wellspring of Truthiness, eh? :D

Politics is like watching ping pong...........while someone is stealing your car.

B_B
05-15-2012, 02:44 PM
Y'know, I said in the runup to the 2008 election that I simply could not imagine why any Dem would even want to take a run at the Presidency, considering. That holds truer now than ever...
I recall suggesting we look at William Lyon Mackenzie King who, in 1930, understood that the economy was in the pits and wasn't going to get any better anytime soon so he didn't actively campaign for re-election outside of his safe seat.

The Conservatives won, and spent the next 5 yrs defending themselves against a world wide recession they had no power over.

King went on to serve an additional 13 yrs as Prime Minister.

TomF
05-15-2012, 02:46 PM
...King went on to serve an additional 13 yrs as Prime Minister.King got good advice from his Mom, eh? :D

pefjr
05-15-2012, 02:54 PM
70 TP Congressmen are the culprits. Years of recurring debt and over spending the budget did not contribute. Wars did not contribute. Homeland Security did not contribute. Ten years of DOD waste in Trillions did not contribute. Banks and Auto bailouts did not contribute. Extending Unemployment indefinitely did not contribute. We have found the true cause of the problem, thanks to John of Phoenix. It's 70 freshmen Congressmen of the Tea Party that are guilty.

Tom Montgomery
05-15-2012, 03:11 PM
What's yer point?

wardd
05-15-2012, 03:16 PM
What's yer point?

that 70 anti science and anti knowledge tp congressmen know better

John of Phoenix
05-15-2012, 03:42 PM
My point would be that until they showed up, there had been close to a hundred budget extension agreements struck without all the drama. My questions would be, "What did those Bozos WANT to accomplish and what DID they accomplish?" The answer to the second is NOTHING other than make themselves look like morons.

Maybe jr has an answer for the first.

B_B
05-15-2012, 04:04 PM
King got good advice from his Mom, eh? :D
Yep, some batshyte crazy folk aren't too bad.

SMARTINSEN
05-15-2012, 04:27 PM
Here we go again. Insane fiscal policy from the inaction committee . Yes, it is action forcing, it means more Tea Party influence in Congress and more TP votes in Nov.

I think that, once again, you are wrong on that one Pef.

Newt and your Republican party got the blame when they tried it back in 95 and 96.

The T-partiers, along with your Republican, party got the blame when they tried it in 2011.

An electoral blunder if your Republican party tries for a trifecta before the election.

What makes you think that the third time will be any different? Someone once said some thing about the definition of stupidity.....

Tall Boy
05-15-2012, 04:56 PM
It's no wonder you're always losing to a pair of twos.

Heh, heh, that was a snappy parting shot.......you should get your own show......

Tall Boy
05-15-2012, 04:58 PM
My point would be that until they showed up, there had been close to a hundred budget extension agreements struck without all the drama. My questions would be, "What did those Bozos WANT to accomplish and what DID they accomplish?" The answer to the second is NOTHING other than make themselves look like morons.

Maybe jr has an answer for the first.

Maybe we should ask ourselves if we're better off now then we were 5 trillion dollars ago.

wardd
05-15-2012, 05:02 PM
Maybe we should ask ourselves if we're better off now then we were 5 trillion dollars ago.

the question is would we have been worse off

pefjr
05-15-2012, 05:05 PM
I think that, once again, you are wrong on that one Pef.

Newt and your Republican party got the blame when they tried it back in 95 and 96.

The T-partiers, along with your Republican, party got the blame when they tried it in 2011.

An electoral blunder if your Republican party tries for a trifecta before the election.

What makes you think that the third time will be any different? Someone once said some thing about the definition of stupidity.....Well, we will see how this 'evolves', gonna really hurt the spoiled, but they will get used to it, the belts must be tightened and not put off until Obama get past his election. He will have to be elected as a failure(doubtful, you know people vote their pocketbook) to reign in debt, or reelected by compromising on the BBA to keep the TP down.

wardd
05-15-2012, 05:09 PM
Well, we will see how this 'evolves', gonna really hurt the spoiled, but they will get used to it, the belts must be tightened and not put off until Obama get past his election. He will have to be elected as a failure(doubtful, you know people vote their pocketbook) to reign in debt, or reelected by compromising on the BBA to keep the TP down.

gona hurt the spoiled?

no way, the kochs will be just fine

i can't say that for a lot of out of work poor people

SMARTINSEN
05-15-2012, 05:37 PM
You are just being funny if you think that the balanced budget amendment is going anywhere. Now or anytime in the foreseeable future. In fact this is the first I have heard of this being brought back up again. While it would bring the TP to the height of ecstasy, I do not think that you will see the administration falling for it. Gotta link to justify your (IMHO) wishful thinking?

There are many things to criticize the President about--and I agree with you that his obeisance to the MIC is principal among them. His unwillingness to put his foot down and call out this very TP that we are talking about on their lunacy is another (where we may not agree)--but I do not see him as a failure.

mikefrommontana
05-16-2012, 12:52 AM
:D Obama thought he had pushed this problem past the elections. He may have to compromise now, and sign a Balanced Budget Amendment to stay in office.

I think Obama might have the trump cards on this. If the TP caucus, or the whole Rep. party want to rumble, Obama can sit back and demand taxes as a part of the program. How do you demand a balanced budget without raising revenue? The last time we wound up with the panel that did nothing and still had to make cuts.

Even if Romney wins, Obama can just shoot down anything that comes out of Congress until he's gone, and by then the Bush tax cuts will have expired. Honestly, I think he wouldn't do that, but don't expect him to fold early in the game. The Republicans will be playing a really interesting game, but then maybe their backers can buy enough advertising to snowjob everybody--it'll take a LOT of money.

pefjr
05-16-2012, 09:38 AM
How do you demand a balanced budget without raising revenue?

:D:D, sorry, I am shaking my head.

John of Phoenix
05-16-2012, 10:06 AM
sorry, I am shaking my head. I'm sure you would be. Reality isn't your strong suit.

John Smith
05-16-2012, 10:14 AM
Fascinating, it's like the mid term election never happened............

The mid term election hasn't produced the results hoped for by those who voted all the Republicans in.

So it's really hard to tell how that plays this election.

John Smith
05-16-2012, 10:17 AM
Strange how John lays the blame on 70 TP Congressmen, the most responsible of the 535 Congressmen. :D Obama thought he had pushed this problem past the elections. He may have to compromise now, and sign a Balanced Budget Amendment to stay in office.

Corrrect: they are resonsible.

Would you be so kind as to explain how the mechanics of a balanced budget amendment would work in the wake of a major hurricane?

Canoeyawl
05-16-2012, 11:09 AM
Where's Donn when he's really needed?

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9JkgKGFTRXSGO2X5TnA1Qe4IZnN_4k IazJBpjmYK7Ah15eW8S

pefjr
05-16-2012, 11:13 AM
Corrrect: they are resonsible.

Would you be so kind as to explain how the mechanics of a balanced budget amendment would work in the wake of a major hurricane?No, I have no patience with such basal questions. I suggest that you pray to GW and maybe he will divert the Hurricane out of the kindness of his heart.

John of Phoenix
05-16-2012, 11:14 AM
I'm going to go out on limb here and say she's not really a teacher. :D

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9JkgKGFTRXSGO2X5TnA1Qe4IZnN_4k IazJBpjmYK7Ah15eW8S

pefjr
05-16-2012, 11:16 AM
I'm sure you would be. Reality isn't your strong suit.Now, how are you gonna compete with elf and Osborne with that little bitty ad hom?

John of Phoenix
05-16-2012, 11:20 AM
I suggest that you pray to GW and maybe he will divert the Hurricane out of the kindness of his heart. This is so unrelated and bizarre it's actually disturbing.

Tall Boy
05-16-2012, 11:56 AM
I'm going to go out on limb here and say she's not really a teacher. :D

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9JkgKGFTRXSGO2X5TnA1Qe4IZnN_4k IazJBpjmYK7Ah15eW8S

Teachur........the sign says Teachur......Ya want smart....ttthhheeerrrreee ya go...

wardd
05-16-2012, 12:00 PM
has the republican house produced what it promised?

pefjr
05-16-2012, 12:32 PM
This is so unrelated and bizarre it's actually disturbing.And you sir, have exposed your lack, of knowledge of major 21st century Hurricanes, voodoo, and oh... a sense of humor also.

John of Phoenix
05-16-2012, 12:38 PM
I'm fully aware of what it referred to but it was so TOTALLY unrelated to anything in the thread that you have once again convinced me that you are of diminished capacity. Reality is not your strong suit.

Seek professional help.

pefjr
05-16-2012, 12:49 PM
I'm fully aware of what it referred to but it was so TOTALLY unrelated to anything in the thread that you have once again convinced me that you are of diminished capacity. Reality is not your strong suit.

Seek professional help.Aw ...now, that better ad hominey, keep improving and I will have to advance you on up to the self proclaimed "progressive" level.

John of Phoenix
05-16-2012, 01:29 PM
You're doing it again. The observation that you have such a casual relationship with reality doesn't constitute an insult, an attack or anything else. It's just a fact.

You can live with it and we can be amused by it.

pefjr
05-16-2012, 02:16 PM
You're doing it again. The observation that you have such a casual relationship with reality doesn't constitute an insult, an attack or anything else. It's just a fact.

You can live with it and we can be amused by it.I'm here to please.

John of Phoenix
05-16-2012, 02:34 PM
Excellent. Just so you don't feel pressured, no one expects you to make a contribution to the discussion.

pefjr
05-16-2012, 03:24 PM
Excellent. Just so you don't feel pressured, no one expects you to make a contribution to the discussion.Sorry, what was it again you want to discuss? Insults, ad hominey and "Progressives". I checked your last several posts and that is all I see. You are working hard to be a "Progressive", and deserve some recognition from the best of the left, elf and Osborne. I'll put in a word for you.

John of Phoenix
05-16-2012, 03:36 PM
Sorry, what was it again you want to discuss?

My point would be that until the TP showed up, there had been close to a hundred budget extension agreements struck without all the drama. My questions would be, "What did those Bozos WANT to accomplish and what DID they accomplish?" The answer to the second is NOTHING other than make themselves look like morons.

Maybe jr has an answer for the first. Way back in post 32. But as I said, no one expects you to contribute. You haven't so far.

mikefrommontana
05-16-2012, 04:37 PM
:D:D, sorry, I am shaking my head.

Well, I would guess that if raising taxes is completely off the table, you should shake your head. Nothing wrong with that.

So, that really leaves only one way out of this mess: Cut spending. Simple eh? Well, is it an equal percentage across all departments of government? Are we cutting the real dollar cost of the programs, or are we just capping the growth of the programs but maintaining their inflation adjusted budgets?

Has the House submitted budgets that reduce real dollar departmental spending or are they just reducing growth rates above inflation, or are they doing anything?

Are all the costs on board? GW Bush kept two wars off the books, which was probably good to reduce public outcry. Now Obama put those wars on the books--are they really spending increases on his watch?

Even if real dollar government spending goes down, it doesn't do anything for the debt and may take a while to get the budget balanced, unless some serious cutting is made. Without taxes, the timeline to acheive this is even longer. Without taxes, there's no real incentive for those holding money to invest it in real goods as the rewards are less than keeping money in financial products. Could taxes cause capital flight? Sure, but where are they going to go? As messed up as we think we are, we're still doing better than a lot of other folks--people bring money here to make money, or keep it safe.

Can taxes be abused? He** yes, so maybe the solution is to call it a war bond, or some such, with a sunset provision that kicks in when budgetary provisions are met--sort of a Balanced Budget Ammendment with a time delay.

I think the idea that we can just cut our way out of this is rather foolhardy, especially since those who espouse this aren't willing to cut into their own pet ox. And so it goes

pefjr
05-16-2012, 04:44 PM
Way back in post 32. But as I said, no one expects you to contribute. You haven't so far.Loaded question, but nice try. Let me give you a clue free of charge. The TP did not just "show up", they were elected in the same bozo election your libs were elected. Wonder who elected them and why?

wardd
05-16-2012, 04:49 PM
Loaded question, but nice try. Let me give you a clue free of charge. The TP did not just "show up", they were elected in the same bozo election your libs were elected. Wonder who elected them and why?

the tp was elected by other bozos

pefjr
05-16-2012, 05:01 PM
Can taxes be abused? He** yes, so maybe the solution is to call it a war bond, or some such, with a sunset provision that kicks in when budgetary provisions are met--sort of a Balanced Budget Ammendment with a time delay.

I think the idea that we can just cut our way out of this is rather foolhardy, especially since those who espouse this aren't willing to cut into their own pet ox. And so it goesAh.... now you making sense, and you admit that it ain't gonna happen with a pet ox. Congress has a herd of 57 oxen. That leaves what? One thing is for sure. We have to bring the budget under control. I am saying along with the TP that the BBA is the only way Congress will do it. Well, there is one other way, elect Ron Paul, he has no problem cutting DOD.

John Smith
05-16-2012, 05:52 PM
I"d like to suggest we return to the tax rates in place the last time the budget balanced.

Keith Wilson
05-16-2012, 06:03 PM
And were they given the power to govern rather than simply the power to obstruct, they'd have to eat their words.Maybe. That was true of the previous generation of Republicans. I don't know if it's true of the radicals in the current crop. Many of them appear to sincerely believe that most functions currently performed by the US federal government are illegitimate and unconstitutional, they subscribe to a fringe economic theory that holds that taxes are the root of all evil and that cutting government spending is the best way to help the economy, and they do not want the government to work well. They don't want it to work at all, in many cases. Cynicism about government, belief that it can't ever do anything right, despair about anything in Washington working - if more people think like that, it will be to their political advantage, hence an incentive to wreck things. We have some very dangerous people in Congress right now.

John of Phoenix
05-17-2012, 10:01 AM
Post 32:
What did those Bozos WANT to accomplish (with the debt ceiling fight)?
Loaded question, but nice try.THAT'S a loaded question? You've been singing the praises of these lunatics for years and you can't state the simplest of their goals? That debt fight was like the Alamo, Gettysburg and D-Day all rolled into one for the TP and you can't name one single goal they had?

I'd say they're going to drum you out of the corps, but that's EXACTLY what they're looking for - blind ignorant obediance.