A little sloop

[Meerkat]

John B's post of this:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p9afe37de87d5493e3b8f3261a70c9deb/f9cd138a.jpg

got me thinking about how nice it would be to have such a craft and how much more realistic it is that I might end up having such a boat. Rather than continue to hijack Andrew's thread, I've started this one to solicit ideas from everyone.

What I want is this:

* Curvacious form. I don't think S&G will give me what I want and I think cold molded, carvel and strip are probably too much effort for me. That probably leaves glued lap as the build technique of choice.

* Sloop Gaff, Gunter or Marconi only, with a head sail. Might not object to a cutter, but I suspect that's overkill and overcost for what I have in mind and can afford (well, when I can afford anything that is). I would not object at all to a bowsprit!

* Brisk to sparkling performance when wanted, but much closer to sport than race and virtually no chance of a knockdown!! Should be equally ammenable to relaxed and carefree sailing.

* Centerboard or bilgeboards. Not a daggerboard and not lee boards. A keel is out too.

* Suitable for one or two to sleep aboard on the duckboards(!) in the bottom of the boat on either side of the centerboard or in that nice generous area afforded by bilgeboards. However the boat should not be so broad as to look misshapen or squashed.

* The mast must be in a tabernacle.

* Comfortable to single hand, convenient for 2 and possible for 3 for an afternoon sail.

* An aft lazarette/stern deck would be a good thing, as would some suggestion of side decks. However the boat should be able/intended to be sailed while sitting on the side seats or the bottom of the boat.

* Foredeck with accessable sealed storage to double as flotation. A little well to hold the ground tackle would be nice, but a bucket will do.

* Styling should lean rather sharply towards the traditional, but the underbody should be based on modern techniques for perfomance. This is to be a beach boat, so that should be kept in mind.

* Maxiumum weight of 300#/136kg.

<hr/>

Beyond the boat above, which seems a little small, I've seen the following that are of interest:

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/shearwater4.jpg

Oughtred's 3.61m/11'10" x 1.50m/4'11", 86kg/189# Shearwater. Seems just a bit too small. Awfully pretty though:

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/shearwater2.jpg

<hr/>
http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/gannet2.jpg

Oughtred's 4.40m/14'5" x 1.73m/5'8", 118kg/260# Gannet. Seems about the right size. Does not have a stern locker - is that a doable option on any boat? Stern looks a little boxy. Looks like it might need a lot of railmeat too! :eek:

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/Gannet3.jpg

<hr/>

I now open the floor for other suggestions. Please, if at all possible, provide pictures and specs - I'm a visual creature ;)

... and thanks in advance for participating! smile.gif

[ 08-26-2004, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Bob Ketterling]

I am looking for a design that falls within very similar specifications and I came up with Gannet as well. I have studied some of the Fulmar build sites, which is very similar and I really like the clean, uncluttered look of the boat. The other design that I am looking at is the Navigator. Similar size but very different building methods. I love the pictures of it on the NZ Open Boat web site.

[Meerkat]

Yes, John's 4.5m/14'9", 1.8m/5'10", 140kg/309# Navigator has to be on my list!
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/david77/downhillheaven.jpg
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/david77/looking.jpg
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/david77/dave_gen.jpg
http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/navigator/navdwg.gif

[ 08-27-2004, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Meerkat]

WOOOOOOSH!
http://www.oz.net/~whisper/images/heeler-800x600.jpg

[Dennis Marshall]

What is the boat in the very first pic, Meer?

Dennis

[Marcio Moreira]

One of the litle daysailers designed by Paul Gartside:

glued Lapstrake:

http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/16sail128sail.JPG
design #128, 16 ft dinghy

Or traditional?:

http://www.gartsideboats.com/pgimages/skylark3copy.jpg
Skylark - 14 ft dinghy - design #107

So many boats.... ;)
good luck in your search

[ 08-27-2004, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Marcio Moreira ]

[sseay]

Arch Davis, Penobscot 17???

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Meerkat having a 18ft sailing Skiff and a 9ft Dhow I can assure you there is no way your sleeping on one. Bring camping gear and sleep on shore. The mast on such a small boat does not need to be a tabernacle. On my skiff the mast is unstayed and just pops through the forward thwart and into a step in the sole. I can drop and stow and row in about 1 minute. The boat in the first photo looks closer in LOA to my 9ft Dhow also not an ideal choice to sleep aboard. Trust me they are great fun and get you out sailing faster than anything. Me personally I long for a true cabin with a head and a galley and a berth. I have dreams of morning coffee at my nav table then going out to a nice cockpit and checking the horizon. It doesn't have to be big for me at all just a few amenities.

Like I said for fast get out on the water fun sailing nothing beats the above boats just don't expect more from them and plan on getting wet smile.gif

[ 08-27-2004, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[Buddy]

Let me please share some personal experience and opinions from owning small dinghies, then daysailors edging up to camp cruisers. I am concerned about what appear to be conflicting requirements in your design brief. Form is gonig to follow function.

I've formed these opinions chiefly on a 14'6" Cape Dory "whitehall" of 250 pounds which after 18 years was replaced by a 15' Joel White Marsh Cat of 1100 pounds.

If you are going to sleep on the cockpit floor on either side of the centerboard trunk, you'll need a level spot ( look at the design waterline of your plans, its about right for the size of the floorboards) of 22"x 78" on each side , but of course in can taper inboard some and still have room for the head and feet. You will need room to roll over. A waterline this wide is going to lead to a wide ( but curvacious) boat in a boat short enough to stay at 300 pounds. For a little sloop, there's less room aft the mast, and you still want a closed locker aft. You want closed storage under the deck, so that is going to limit putting you feet too much under the foredeck as well.

The very fact that you want a covered foredeck, a covered aft deck, and covered side decks is going to make that 300 pound limit challenging.

You want brisk performance, but no possibility of capsize in an unballasted boat. The boat needs to be large enough to care three, but you want it to easily singlehand. Most boats capable of doing that usually have enough form stability (beam) or inside ballast to bridge over the wide weight variance you propose. You're talking a range of 200 to 600 pounds of people ( maybe more with camping gear) in a 300 pound vessel. A heavily reefable sail plan might accommodate this and provide brisk performance regardless of crew, but they will have to sit "smart" and then there's that no capsize requirement.

Who's sailing with you? My wife had to pick her days to come sailing with me because the Cape Dory was brisk, wet, and sometimes too tippy for her comfort. Sleeping in it was out of the question, but it could easily accommodate our camping equipment and food.

IN contrast, she loves the "stately" motion of the Marsh Cat, and we have plenty of room on the floorboards and under the boom to camp aboard wonderfully.
But it's not going any faster than 4.5 mph: it's beautifully curvaceous hull, but wide and low.
Mine has a bowsprit and a 46 sq ft roller jib. Call it a cat sloop if you like
If you want brisk action, you can always get a thrill by not reefing appropriately and impress your passengers with a 15 foot long wooden boom whizzing low overhead propelled by 152 sq ft in a 15 mile an hour breeze.
It's quick easy to rig the hinged mast, easy to tow, launch and retrieve. Because of this, we use it lots. Isn't this always the single best indicator of a good design for doing what you want to do, whatever size or type of boat?
But we're talking an 1100 pound boat on a 450 pound trailer. Easy enough work for my trustly old 6 cylinder Ford Explorer, as well as for me just by myself, to handle. Very, very little extra effort compared to the Cape Dory 14. Haven't looked back with any regrets about the "trade in".
I wish you luck getting all you want in 300 pounds.

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Dennis Marshall:
What is the boat in the very first pic, Meer?

DennisNobody seems to be quite sure Dennis. Discussion about it is over in Andrew Craig-Bennett's "8-9' stem dinghy" thread.

[Venchka]

Meerkat,

Welcome aboard the cruise through the Sea of Designs.

First of all, suspend most or all of your preconceived misconceptions. Not that you have any mind you :D , but an open mind will see you through the journey.

On the subject of boat weights as quoted by designers. Take them with a grain of salt. Case in point: Study plans weight of a Caledonia yawl hull is stated as 340 pounds. The pile of plywood weighed 400 pounds and I doubt that there is 30 pounds left over. See what I mean? Boats weigh what they weigh when sailing and not a pound less. Don't get hung up on weight. Safe working cargo capacity (try to find that number on the plans-GRRRRRRR! Pet peeve) is more relevant and hard to determine.

On sailplans-don't believe all the pictures you see. Even my Caledonia yawl can be fitted with a gunter sloop rig. If you find a hull that talks to you but the sailplan seems wrong, investigate! Chances are the sailplan you want is already on the plans. Or can be added at minimal cost.

Construction. Geeze, Louize, you live in the center of boat building lumber Heaven! Don't rule out clinker construction. Red cedar over a mix of black locust & Alaska yellow cedar would be fabulous. Think about it.

Sleeping on board. Here's one man's solution and it works very well. The boat in question is a 16' Swampscott dory. A bit more beam than was traditional.

CAMPING DORY (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openboat/files/Housekeeping%20on%20a%20Dory%20/)

Allow for a small outboard motor. A 2hp kicker will save your butt more often than not.

Never ever assume that ANY boat won't capsize. Operate as if the boat will be inverted in the next nanosecond and you'll be fine.

By the way, did you know that Speed-strips are available in the U.S.?

SPEED STRIPS (http://www.maritimewoodproducts.com/hull.asp)

Did you also know that many of Iain Oughtred's designs can be strip planked? If you wanted to.

I'll go back under my rock now.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 08-27-2004, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Meerkat]

Buddy; Thanks for your input. A lot to think about there...

I didn't mean to imply NO capsize, just a boat that's relucant to do so and, me being me, the boat is going to have to want to capsize a lot more than I do if it's ever to have a chance! I'd never give a boat that was reluctant a chance although accidents do happen! ;) I guess I should have said I want a rather stable boat.

More later.

[ 08-27-2004, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Christopher Locke]

My suggestion is Arch Davis's Penobscot 14 (saw someone suggest his 17, which is a big brother, but 14 seems to fit the size requirements a bit better). Doesn't have a foredeck or aftdeck but you've already seen postings on that. I think you could probably add, at a minimum, a foredeck, with little effort. Hell, Arch is such a nice guy that he will probably design it for you!

[Dennis Marshall]

Meer, how about Bolger's Spartina? A 15'4" x 7' catboat. 12'6" on the waterline 110 sqft gaff main
and 36sqft jib. He notes in "Boats with an Open Mind" that this boat has an "emphasis on thoroughbred handling qualities and ability to sail well without intense concentration and strenuous crew effort. The impression that a boat not designed for cutthroat competition must be clumsy and dead sailing needs contesting. This design . . . demonstrates that a boat doesn't have to be either physically or mentally demanding to reward any level of skill... Such a boat can deliver sport in small and crowded waters, because the pleasure of sailing it is less analogous to running than to dancing." (p. 107)

Dennis

Sorry, no pics.

[Buddy]

I've seen the Spartina plans in the Bolger book. Lapstrake as I remember. Interesting how the numbers compare to the Marsh Cat 15 ft LOA, 14 ft DWL, 6' 11" beam, 152 sq ft sail area. I think I remember the weight as being 900 pounds or so, but the book's at home. There are practical reasons a lot of smaller, practical, reasonably inexpensive boat designs are catboats.

[Buddy]

OK a capsize isn't ruled out. Then consider how easily the boat can be righted by just one man standing on the board and hanging on the gunnel. Then when it rights, is the freeboard too high to board? Does it float higher than that centerboard trunk with the crew weight inside the swamped boat. . And how much water to those sidedecks hold into to have to bail out. That great camper and passenger comfort volume becomes a liability. Just having air tanks or flotation to keep the boat from sinking doesn't provide the self rescuing ability thats so desirable in longer trips into uncrowded waters no matter how protected the waters.

It makes very good sense to intentinally capsize a new boat alongside a dock on a nice swimming day and discover what you really have to deal with, and what can be added to ease that job- flotation, centerboard caps, rope stirrup, pumps, buckets, flotation bags in the bow, bags under the sidedecks at the stern.

[Dennis Marshall]

Buddy, Spartina weighs in around 500lbs. The Hull is constructed of 1/2" ply. The hull profile is round, but the bottom is a 24" wide (at its widest) flat panel, so it ought to take the beach up right.

Dennis

[Buddy]

Isn't this the Bolger redesigned a guy's fathers carvel design from the 1930's into something that could be built lapstrake as a stock model in a boatshop, then converted to glass production and stopped. Then Bolger redesigned for tack and tape as well with a few rig variations?

[Dennis Marshall]

Buddy,
Spartina was redesigned from a 1920s Nicholas Montgomery (Montgomery's Boatyard still exists and grandson David is at the helm, I understand) and ? carvel planked hard chine cat boat. In redesigning, Bolger changed it to ply lapstrake construction. He did give it a variety of rigs: a sprit boom leg-o-mutton rig, a solent lug rig, and a couple of gaff sloop rigs were offered as options for the boat. I don't think it was intended for glass construction, at least Bolger's write up in BWOAM does not indicate that. My inquiries to move to lighter scantlings have not been well received by Bolger. He recommends the 143 sqft solent lug as the "final" and best sail of all the options noted.

Dennis

[ 08-27-2004, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Dennis Marshall ]

[Big Red]

Spartina:

http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/spartina.jpg

[Venchka]

Meerkat,

Beam is your buddy for the stability and sleep aboard requirement. Frankly, boats as short as you seem to be looking at aren't going to be very beamy. OR, as in the case of the cat boats, they won't be as light as you wish. The perfect combination of volume and weight may be out there. I'm stumped.

Gartside SKYLARK
Pros: Beam, Sloop rig, construction, drop dead gorgeous
Cons: Weight, construction
Davis PENOBSCOT 14
Pros: Sloop rig, weight
Cons: Tiny
Oughtred GANNET
Pros: Beam, sloop rig, construction, weight, performance, bow & stern decks & bulkheads (if desired)
Cons: Expense if you opt for the lightest plywood to keep the weight down, decks & bulkheads add weight and complexity

I don't have the URL handy, but GOOGLE up Don Kurylko's (sp?) ALASKA and his other designs. ALASKA is a purpose designed strip planked camp cruising beauty. The rig is different than you require, but there are reasons for that. The length is longer than you stated, but there are reasons for that too. He may have something smaller. My C.R.S. is acting up and I'm not sure.

Pete & Nancy Ashenfelter travelled from Lopez Island (in your backyard) to Ketchikan, Alaska in a smallish Swampscott dory and camped ashore every night. If you insist on keeping the length and weight low, you might have to forgo sleeping on the boat.

SMACKS his head hard! John Welsford's WALKABOUT. Sleeps one at least. Under a tent.

Good luck!

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 08-27-2004, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Venchka]

Big Red,

That version of SPARTINA isn't 1/2" glued lap plywood construction. It's gorgeous. Do you have any details?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[htom]

No, that one is cold-molded.

[Buddy]

Guys, the lights are burning late at the Admiralty tonight so I have been able to look up Spartina in the library back home. I've enjoyed your posts tremendously. Thanks for keeping me company.

[Meerkat]

Sleeping aboard a Navigator might be entirely plausible. Here's a view looking forward into what I consider the cargo holds of a Navigator. These are to either side and forward of the centerboard and separated from the cockpit aft by a substantial enclosed thwart (for lack of a better term - bridge?) seen here in the foreground. The floorboard of the cockpit is made to pull up to fill in the cockpit area, giving a true double bed sized space at the aft end of the boat.
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/david77/lifeaboard.jpg

Makes a nice conestoga boat too.
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/david77/cosyenough.jpg

[ 08-27-2004, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Meerkat]

Wassa; For what it's worth, this looks like it would be fun once in awhile!
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/david77/nessyawl.jpg

[Wild Wassa]

Meerkat, that is beautiful shot of the Deua Wadbilliga Bogong Wilderness in the background and it looks like where the Moruya River comes out at the sea. Good fishing for Flathead down that way. Find that boat Meer.

Warren.

[ 08-28-2004, 03:20 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[boatlover]

Wild Wassa: Which picture are you referring to ?

Meerkat: Forget "Google." Use the search button above on "Mississippi River Expediton Boat," in this forum.

The Don Kurylko link there will bring up ALASKA and MYST and a couple of others.

regards,

Ed R

PS I thought the Meerkat was going for a Welsford "Navigator" .... with an in-house (nearly) expert/consultant.

[Venchka]

YO!

Logic here. When Meerkat started he was talking about a small sloop. Up to Iain Oughtred's GANNET at 14'-5"x5'-8".

As nice as NAVIGATOR is, it's in a different size/complexity/cost area than "a little sloop". Not bad, mind you. It's an apples and oranges thing. If the intrepid builder wishes to expand his criteria, Navigator is a great boat.

In keeping with the original intent of a little sloop, I give you HOUDINI. A very special Houdini with a dry area to keep the Pacific North Wet out of the boat. and a bowsrpit. How cool is that? :D

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/projects/kane/RK-Houdini-7.jpg http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/projects/kane/RK-Houdini-6.jpg http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/projects/kane/RK-Houdini-9.jpg

HOUDINI (http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/houdini/index.htm)

Wayne
Back on track for a small sloop in the Swamp. :D

[landlocked sailor]

Buddy, I think you are referring to Bolger's CHEBACCO that he designed for production by Dana Story. Lovely boats, Rick

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Venchka:
YO!

Logic here. When Meerkat started he was talking about a small sloop. Up to Iain Oughtred's GANNET at 14'-5"x5'-8".

As nice as NAVIGATOR is, it's in a different size/complexity/cost area than "a little sloop". Not bad, mind you. It's an apples and oranges thing. If the intrepid builder wishes to expand his criteria, Navigator is a great boat.

Wayne
Back on track for a small sloop in the Swamp. :D Venchka; Are you criss-crossing the Navigator and the Pathfinder? Navigator is only 14'9" x 5'10", which is roughly in the 12-14' range. It's a wee bit heftier than the 300# limit I set, but it's only 9# more. What do you mean by "apples and oranges"?

I've looked at the "Houndini with a lid" pics and I kind of like it, although it does look a little bit cartoonish.

John's going to be developing a "slightly bigger" Pathfinder with a lid to meet demand for such a boat. I hope to influence him ... bilgeboards anyone? However, the advent of this design is likely to be "some time next year" after the press of other work has passed.

I want a boat with a lid, I just am not sure I can afford one that I can really sit down below in _comfortably_!

[ 08-28-2004, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Wild Wassa:
Meerkat, that is beautiful shot of the Deua Wadbilliga Bogong Wilderness in the background and it looks like where the Moruya River comes out at the sea. Good fishing for Flathead down that way. Find that boat Meer.

Warren.It's Oughtred's Ness Yawl Wassa.

[Wild Wassa]

I know she is a Ness Yawl. I think this photo first appeared on a thread by Vencka titled,"the reason why I sail" or on a thread with a similar title.

Meerkat, what sort of opportunities do you have to locate an el-cheapo wreck and restore her? As I wrote on my quick message to you earlier (that I pulled) ... "they're a dime a dozen in Oz." Or they are around here in this part of Oz.

I suppose it is reasonably easy here to score a boat as the boaties keep their boats in their front yards over here. It is easy to see what boats haven't moved in a season or two ... then I pounce. Meer, two of my last 3 boats were freebies because I asked. On both of those occassions with the freebies, the sailor's wives were happy to see the boats out of their yards. Two of the boats went to the Scouts. I have my eye on an unknown boat at the moment that hasn't moved in two seasons, I haven't looked under the tarp yet so I don't know what she is, plus there are laws against trespassing, ... I just know that I want her.

When people see that you work on boats ... there is usually a free boat to be had somewhere. Aussies are strange creatures, they don't maintain their boats well (not at all), they leave them out to rot, they can't sell them when they look ugly, so they just end up giving them away. They don't want the boat to die, I find. You should be able to explain to a negligent owner how close his boat really is to dying or sinking. Don't forget to offer the Skipper a sail in your newly restored boat to prove that she went to a good home ... because he will know of another retired sailor with a similar wreck in his front yard.

This technique is for little sloops as I use an advanced technique for bigger sloops ... just joking.

Warren.

[ 08-28-2004, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Meerkat]

Wassa; In my limited experience here, people tend to leave boats in side or back yards to molder. I don't have much of an idea of where to hang out such that a free boat might come my way.

I was offered one by a forumite, but it was one of the class racing dinghies and my disinterest in such , plus the fact that I had no way to move the boat or really to store it caused that opportunity to go by. It was awfully nice of him though.

I guess I need to get over my illness and get intense on the boat quest.

[Wild Wassa]

Boatlover, the Ness Yawl, Skipper.

Meer, the local Sea Scouts have a strategy to encourage helpers or Scout dads to restore their Sea Scout boats. If you restore a boat for them, you can sail her or race her as often as you want. Perhaps this might be a good interim tactic. That will have you right in the thick of it early plus they will cover all of the expenses. The Scouts have the tools as well.

I hope you are feeling on top of the illness ... and recovering quickly. I also hope you don't mind me posting the shot, a great shot like this helps me get through winter. I can see why you like the boat.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid137/p1c62756d575d7018657fdb8c327356bb/f73e72bf.jpg

Warren.

[ 08-28-2004, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Venchka]

Navigator

OK, maybe not apples to oranges but for sure crab apples to big Wasington Sate Delicious apples. Navigator is an order of magnitude more boat in terms of time/money/effort than a simple open boat like Gannet. While the LOA and beam may only be a few inches more than the next smaller boat, it's a lot deeper, half decked, lots of interior joinery, larger sails, etc. The good news is that when Barrett finishes her boat you can A) Look at her spreadsheet of expenses, B) Weigh the finished product, C) If your nice you might even get to sail on it.

I gathered from your original design brief you were trying to stay at 14'. The good news is that Navigator might actually serve all of your needs except weight and cost. More time and money spent to get what you want makes more sense than skimping and being disappointed.

To my eye, useful headroom on any boat under about 18' is hard to pull off. The good news is that where you live ("it rains all the time") a dry spot on a boat won't look cartoonish at all from the inside. Plans for a cabin top for Pathfinder already exists. I've seen the same done on a Navigator.

If you build it yourself and it isn't what you really really want, what's the point, eh? Don't even think about what it will cost.

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

EDIT---
PS: Show me one photograph of a sloop rigged Navigator. I dare you. tongue.gif

PPS: Show me a 309# Navigator in sailing trim with U.S.C.G. equipment aboard. I double dare you. tongue.gif tongue.gif I'll bet you a beer that Barrett's boat is closer to 500# than 309#. That isn't bad. It's not a criticism. Just reality. ;)

[ 08-28-2004, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Venchka:

PS: Show me one photograph of a sloop rigged Navigator. I dare you. tongue.gif
Uh... like this one?:
http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatNavigator/BoatOther/gaffsloop.jpg

;)

As for a Navigator lid...
http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatNavigator/BoatOther/NName3.jpg
http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatNavigator/BoatOther/NName4.jpg

These last two pictures are of Dave Perillo's "Jaunty", I believe before he owned her. Since I don't see the cuddy hood on any of Dave's pictures of "Jaunty", I guess he either did not like it or it did now work out somehow. I'm a mite skeptical about the look myself.

[ 08-28-2004, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Venchka]

Stubborn, aren't you? tongue.gif Might be the only one. John did say once that the yawl rig outsells the sloop by a bunch.

Wayne
Trimming his mizzen in the Swamp. :D

[Meerkat]

Venchka; Please have another look at my last post. I edited it.

[John B]

Just going back to that first pic for a minute. I had Auk plans all over the floor last night, plus a brochure and an Oughtred book and I'm thinking 'Puffin' now.That makes it about 10 ft( or was it 10'2")Quite a bit bigger than I recalled it but......sometimes boats look smaller than they really are when they're in the water.
I think that Ness Yawl photo is off Abel Tasman park near Nelson.. top of the South Island of NZ. the owner/builder is building a skiff, perhaps even has built it by now and is rowing the intracoastal waterway somewhere. Sounded like a fascinating plan to me. I think the idea was to arrive in the US with the oars made but in halves plus fittings and full templates for the hull. He had a location organised to build it in a week or two and then get out and rowing.

[ 08-29-2004, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: John B ]

[Meerkat]

http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/david77/nessyawl.jpg
John Hitchcocks' Ness Yawl "Mystery" off Mapua. NZ (from http://www.openboat.co.nz/ )

[ 08-29-2004, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by John B:
Just going back to that first pic for a minute. I had Auk plans all over the floor last night, plus a brochure and an Oughtred book and I'm thinking 'Puffin' now.That makes it about 10 ft( or was it 10'2")Quite a bit bigger than I recalled it but......sometimes boats look smaller than they really are when they're in the water.
I think you may have nailed it John. I believe the parrot is a puffin ;)
http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/puffin10.jpg

Oughtred's "Puffin": 10'2"/3.11m LOA x 4'0"/1.22m Beam.

The original pic:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p9afe37de87d5493e3b8f3261a70c9deb/f9cd138a.jpg

[ 08-29-2004, 04:40 AM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Hwyl]

Originally posted by Meerkat:
Wassa; In my limited experience here, people tend to leave boats in side or back yards to molder. I don't have much of an idea of where to hang out such that a free boat might come my way.

I was offered one by a forumite, but it was one of the class racing dinghies and my disinterest in such , plus the fact that I had no way to move the boat or really to store it caused that opportunity to go by. It was awfully nice of him though.

I guess I need to get over my illness and get intense on the boat quest.Screw that, follow Warren's advice---go sailing TODAY, you've got Northerly 10 kts and 70's mostly sunny, you are more of a procrastinator than I am. Borrow a boat, sail with a freind, go to Center for wooden boats, anything. Seize the Carp. You seem to be vacillating over a bunch of boats that all look pretty much similar. To paraphrase CSN&Y "sail the one you're with". Don't google up yet another tubby little boat---go sailing. (signing off to take my own advice)

[Meerkat]

Here's what else you can do with Puffin plans (from Duckflats - Aussies are involoved! ;) )

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/puffin06.jpg

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/puffin05.jpg

I'll bet Ian doesn't know this boat! :D

[Barrett Faneuf]

On weight:

I have made NO effort to keep weight down on the Navs, even to the extent of adding such things as a sheathed bottom and hardwood seat tops.

In order to hit the minimum weight requirements on Navigator, according to the plans and instructions from the designer, is to reduce planking thickness on the top two planks, reduce bulkhead thickness, not sheath anything, etc. In my opinion, since I'm after a comfortable, safe time rather than a race trophy, I went the other way with a vengeance.

Of course, the weight goes down significantly when I remove the clamps! :D

RIGHT THIS MINUTE: Adding the cockpit framing. Wow, that gives a much better idea of the boat, doesn't it?

If you notice that the mast step appears to be inside the cockpit, worry not. There is an addidtional still-to-be-added stringer which defines the curve of the forward end of the cockpit coaming that nicely edits the mast out of the cockpit and onto the foredeck.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid137/p00e071cdde217f2f928b9cba79104ff7/f73bb921.jpg

[ 08-29-2004, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Barrett Faneuf ]

[Barrett Faneuf]

Ack! but of course this is a sloop discussion, and that's the YAWL rig of the Navigator. The sloop rig plops the mast right forward of the centrecase, in the midst of the cockpit.

-Barrett

edit: couldn't resist Wayne's challenge on sloop-rigged Navs. Can't forget Tardis:
http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatNavigator/BoatTardis/Tardis8.jpg

Or Meniscus!
http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatNavigator/BoatMeniscus/Meniscus9.jpg

Images from woodenboat.net.nz

[ 08-29-2004, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Barrett Faneuf ]

[Meerkat]

Here's the sailplan for Oughtred's "Guillemot", which seems to be a slightly larger Puffin at 11'5"/3.5m x 4'5"/1.36m.

http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/designers/oughtred/Oughtred%20guillemot.jpg

Like all boats listed by Duckflats, including the Grey Seal, building time is listed as 127 hours. Now, these folks build to order, and even at $100/hr, a Grey Seal would be a steal at $15,000! Hmmm... might be time to go and have some fun with Aussies... ;)

(hi Barrett! smile.gif )

[ 08-29-2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Venchka]

Originally posted by Barrett Faneuf:


... The sloop rig plops the mast right forward of the centrecase, in the midst of the cockpit.

-Barrett

That would seal the deal for me. Obviously the yawl rig opens up the cockpit/stateroom. :D

Perhaps all these sloops pre-date the yawl sailplan, Y'all?

Meerkat:

On the subject of Navigator's with a cuddy cabin (I can't type "lid" and boat together)...I've seen a nice example. Probably on the old Woodenboat New Zealand site. It can be done.

OK, I had to go find it. Maybe not perfect, but it works.

http://www.woodenboat.net.nz/Boats/BoatNavigator/BoatSpiritofH/Spirit2.jpg

Careful what you say, that is someone's boat. ;)

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D

[ 08-29-2004, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

[Bob Ketterling]

A question on yawl rigs from a guy with limited sailing expereince. With a third sail trim and set don't you end up with a whole bunch of extra strings to pull and keep track of?

[Big Red]

Originally posted by Venchka:
Big Red,

That version of SPARTINA isn't 1/2" glued lap plywood construction. It's gorgeous. Do you have any details?

Wayne
In the Swamp. :D Wayne, no sorry mate, I was just following the thread and then did a search for Spartina on Google. Wasn't many responses If I recal. The web sit is here if you want to check it out : Spartina (http:////www.ace.net.au/schooner/spartina.jpg)