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bobbys
05-02-2012, 03:15 PM
We heard from a Bad Baptist, Bain Capital, Reps peeing, Romney a few dozen times, Attack ads but how did Norm miss this one about Ms.Warren.

http://bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1061128614

Ian McColgin
05-02-2012, 03:26 PM
Ah, were folk to read something other than the barely literate hate filled Howie, they'd know a couple of things, like:

Ms Warren is proud of what she'd been told of her heritage, mentioned it casually, it got into a directory long before she ever taught at Harvard, had no part in her hiring, and was trotted out by some grubby AA padding administrator when they were criticized for not having "enough" minority profs; and

Yes, at least one great grandmother is Cherokee.

Senator Brown started this silly bit but from a campaign gotcha point of view, he started it too early, giving curious geneologists a chance to find the truth and for the conservative folk who hired her to Harvard to say essentially, "I didn't know she had any Native American in her." Meanwhile Brown keeps saying that it's all very suspicious, which he's been saying for too long and he's erroding his support.

So it's all good.

bobbys
05-02-2012, 03:28 PM
Give the Indians a Break already!

S.V. Airlie
05-02-2012, 03:48 PM
Okay, tell me what the issue is here: was it not acknowledging her heritage to some one? that she has indian blood, that you feel that she got preference getting a position? sorry disconnect here.
growing up, I learned that my ggrandfather's middle name was Proudfoot...sounds Indian right? I was thrilled that I had a wee bit of Native Indian running through my veins. Then the let down: proudfoot is an old English name, not Native American. A real bummer!

Phillip Allen
05-02-2012, 04:14 PM
Okay, tell me what the issue is here: was it not acknowledging her heritage to some one? that she has indian blood, that you feel that she got preference getting a position? sorry disconnect here.
growing up, I learned that my ggrandfather's middle name was Proudfoot...sounds Indian right? I was thrilled that I had a wee bit of Native Indian running through my veins. Then the let down: proudfoot is an old English name, not Native American. A real bummer!

sounds like a Hobbit name... you look somewhat like a LARGE hobbit BTW :)

David G
05-02-2012, 04:18 PM
bs,

Don't tell Norman about the trials and tribulations heaped upon the head of the North Coast Finns!

S.V. Airlie
05-02-2012, 04:22 PM
sounds like a Hobbit name... you look somewhat like a LARGE hobbit BTW :)Just good old English Phillip.

Phillip Allen
05-02-2012, 04:23 PM
Just good old English Phillip.

Tolkine wasn't exactly a German :)

S.V. Airlie
05-02-2012, 04:33 PM
Tolkine wasn't exactly a German :)As he was born in South Africa. Tolien's family came from Germany granted.However, his immediate family, especially his father, thought of themselves as completely English and not German Phillip.I'm not sure really where you are going with this.

Flying Orca
05-02-2012, 04:44 PM
Phillip.I'm not sure really where you are going with this.

Oh, he'll deny going anywhere with anything, even though it smells like he is. It's the Awww-Shucks method (tm).

S.V. Airlie
05-02-2012, 04:49 PM
Sorry to miss a letter Donn. Beat me a belt. Me bad..The world is coming to an end. Aztecs are counting down the days and Chicken Little is out warning everyone to hide because the sky is going to fall any minute.

Bob Adams
05-02-2012, 04:54 PM
Chicken Little is out warning everyone to hide because the sky is going to fall any minute.

Tylerdurden is back???:p

leikec
05-02-2012, 04:55 PM
The Indians are leading their division, albeit with a record of 11 wins, 10 losses.

Jeff C

S.V. Airlie
05-02-2012, 04:58 PM
Almost sounds like it, but apparently missing a letter in "Tolkien" equates to what will happen to the world by doing so on a post.Donn makes it sound as though my error was earth shattering..

Phillip Allen
05-02-2012, 05:03 PM
As he was born in South Africa. Tolien's family came from Germany granted.However, his immediate family, especially his father, thought of themselves as completely English and not German Phillip.I'm not sure really where you are going with this.

the origin of 'Hobbits' was (I thought) an Englishman ...

S.V. Airlie
05-02-2012, 05:03 PM
Hey Donn, I'm glad he wasn't on the bench with a hooker.

leikec
05-02-2012, 05:03 PM
Yessir! We're ahead of Chicago by 2/1000ths, and Johnny Damon will be starting for us tonight, at left field and leading off. We'll see if the old fart has anything left. He was on the bench with a 2-day beard last night. It'll be interesting to see if he shaves for tonight's game. I'll never forget his first game with the Yankees. He looked like the Pillsbury Doughboy.


I think he's a solid acquisition, as long as he doesn't run, hit, or field like the Pillsbury Doughboy. :D

Jeff C

S.V. Airlie
05-02-2012, 05:09 PM
the origin of 'Hobbits' was (I thought) an Englishman ...Wasn't South Africa was colonized by the English after defeating the Dutch Boers etc. Phillip. I suspect those in South Africa considered themselves English.

bobbys
05-02-2012, 05:19 PM
The Indians are leading their division, albeit with a record of 11 wins, 10 losses.

Jeff C.

What's Ms. Warren's Batting average this year?

wardd
05-02-2012, 05:28 PM
As he was born in South Africa. Tolien's family came from Germany granted.However, his immediate family, especially his father, thought of themselves as completely English and not German Phillip.I'm not sure really where you are going with this.

my, your fast with google

wardd
05-02-2012, 05:29 PM
Sorry to miss a letter Donn. Beat me a belt. Me bad..The world is coming to an end. Aztecs are counting down the days and Chicken Little is out warning everyone to hide because the sky is going to fall any minute.

seems you missed a whole word here

S.V. Airlie
05-02-2012, 05:33 PM
fine. Hard for you to miss a word unless the authors you use to clip and paste your posts do.

wardd
05-02-2012, 05:34 PM
fine. Hard for you to miss a word unless the authors you use to clip and paste your posts do.


i only c@p from the best

ChaseKenyon
05-02-2012, 05:58 PM
We heard from a Bad Baptist, Bain Capital, Reps peeing, Romney a few dozen times, Attack ads but how did Norm miss this one about Ms.Warren.

http://bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1061128614


from which we get:



Excuse me? What would you call a free pass to Columbia and then Harvard Law? For a guy who thinks there are 57 states and that they speak “Austrian” in Austria? Who pronounces corpsman “corpseman”?

Who became editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having written a single article for the publication?


One would think that a paper in Boston the same place where Harvard is,would at least be aware of how the Harvard Law Review operates and if not find out.

For the following reasons I have to discredit the entire article and it it's writer.



The Harvard Law Review is a journal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_review) of legal scholarship published by an independent student group at Harvard Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Law_School).


Fourteen editors (two from each 1L (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_school_in_the_United_States#Curriculum) section) are selected based on a combination of their first-year grades and their competition scores. Twenty editors are selected based solely on their competition scores. The remaining editors are selected on a discretionary basis.





Ressner and Smith report that

Obama "beat out 18 other contenders" to become president of the Harvard Law Review. Those would have been classmates of his, all of them about to enter their third and final years of law school. ( this is a slightly moronic statement as Barak was a 2L when elected pres. of the HLR. so they were not his classmates. The choice of being on the Review is based primarily on grades and submissions. and even if he was a Discretionary member of the review he still had to compete for election to pres by fellow HLR members and the board and outgoing pres and staff.)And that's a remarkably large number of competitors for the top slot —

more people, in fact, than we had on our entire editorial board at Texas (even though Harvard and Texas are similarly sized and comparatively very large law schools).


What Ressner and Smith describe at Harvard — and I've read other, similar descriptions of the HLR and of Obama's election as its first black president — make me believe its editorial board selection was remarkably, overtly political as compared to most other law journals. How could it be otherwise, when it apparently

depended on a vote among all of one's direct (same-year) peers and competitors

who together made up the journal's membership?



The above comment and it's use as the basis for this persons "opinion" are grossly a fabrication that has not even checked on who elects the HLR president and how the person is chosen.

Fourteen editors (two from each 1L section) are selected based on a combination of their first-year grades and their competition scores.


Membership in the Harvard Law Review is limited to second- and third-year law students who are selected on the basis of their performance on an annual writing competition. Harvard Law School students who are interested in joining the Review must write the competition at the end of their 1L year, even if they plan to take time off during law school or are pursuing a joint degree and plan to spend a year at another Harvard graduate school.

Information for prospective transfer students. (http://www.harvardlawreview.org/hlr_487.php)

In recent years, the number of students completing the competition has ranged from 215 to 265. 44 students are invited to join the Review each year.

Fourteen editors (two from each 1L section) are selected based on a combination of their first-year grades and their competition scores.

from the HLR website


The first black member of the Review was Charles Hamilton Houston, LL.B. cum laude 1922, S.J.D. 1923, who served on Volume 35. The second black member was William Henry Hastie LL.B. cum laude 1930, a member of the Board of Volume 43, who later became Chief Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit. Other black members of the Board have included William T. Coleman, Jr., J.D. magna cum laude 1943 ('46), later Secretary of Transportation, and current Harvard Law School Professors Christopher F. Edley, Jr. (Volume 90) and David B. Wilkins (Volume 93). As the Review enters its second century, it has just elected its first minority President, Raj Marphatia of Volume 101.

repeating the process to be elected President of the HLR (which is a management position). The potus was a magna cum laude student.



On Jan. 28, the Harvard Law Review elected Conor S. Tochilin ’06 as its 126th president.Tochilin, a second-year student at the Law School, is currently pursuing an M.B.A. at Harvard Business School in addition to a law degree.Tochilin said that he hopes that serving as president of the Law Review will allow him to combine his interests in business and law.“Because I have a law and business background, I felt like it would be a fun management challenge in addition to immersing myself in the legal scholarship,” he said.Tochilin said that his duties as president will include both an editorial component, which involves a careful reading of articles and making substantive memos, and a management component, which includes overseeing a staff of 88 editors on the Law Review and spearheading new initiatives and long-term projects.Tochilin was chosen from a pool of 14 candidates in an election process that lasted eight hours, the departing president Mitchell Reich said.



THis is field of quicksand that every one has an opinion on and interprets everything their way.

Bottom line his grades were of note and that alone would qualify him for membership on the review.
The other members of the review for that year and
AND the review board select the president of the HLR.

Out of 14 members themembers and the board after round and roundlasting hours elected Barak Obama to be the manager/president for that year. This was probably heavily influenced by his prior to law school experience in organization and leadership of divers people.

He was a community organizer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_organizing) in Chicago before earning his law degree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor).

So as a counter to the back biters who have reasons I do not to take or make every opportunity to put Pres. Obama down and try to discredit him,

I put forth that the final decision between him and the other last standing candidate for Pres. of the HLR went to Barak Obama based on his excellent management experience in his work as a community organizer.Y>Y>

ChaseKenyon
05-02-2012, 06:04 PM
apologies to the OP
for "Forking" the thread.

Maybe it should be the start of a new thread to expose some of the Yonv Gisi (bear crap) my GOP is throwing out on the media waves.

bobbys
05-02-2012, 06:06 PM
from which we get:



One would think that a paper in Boston the same place where Harvard is,would at least be aware of how the Harvard Law Review operates and if not find out.

For the following reasons I have to discredit the entire article and it it's writer.










The above comment and it's use as the basis for this persons "opinion" are grossly a fabrication that has not even checked on who elects the HLR president and how the person is chosen.




from the HLR website



repeating the process to be elected President of the HLR (which is a management position). The potus was a magna cum laude student.




THis is field of quicksand that every one has an opinion on and interprets everything their way.

Bottom line his grades were of note and that alone would qualify him for membership on the review.
The other members of the review for that year and
AND the review board select the president of the HLR.

Out of 14 members themembers and the board after round and roundlasting hours elected Barak Obama to be the manager/president for that year. This was probably heavily influenced by his prior to law school experience in organization and leadership of divers people.


So as a counter to the back biters who have reasons I do not to take or make every opportunity to put Pres. Obama down and try to discredit him,

I put forth that the final decision between him and the other last standing candidate for Pres. of the HLR went to Barak Obama based on his excellent management experience in his work as a community organizer.Y>Y>


.

What does this have to do with the tomahawking of Miss wintersrpingsummerfall?

ChaseKenyon
05-02-2012, 06:08 PM
.

What does this have to do with the tomahawking of Miss wintersrpingsummerfall?

obviously you have not clicked on the link and read the article.

So that and we can talk in a common language till then I can't hear you.

ChrisBen
05-02-2012, 06:09 PM
.

What does this have to do with the tomahawking of Miss wintersrpingsummerfall?Bobbys, O Bobbys, that nitwit knows not what he speaks of.:d

leikec
05-02-2012, 06:53 PM
.

What's Ms. Warren's Batting average this year?

She's still in the box, and she puts the ball in play. We'll have to see if Mr. Brown can play defense.

Jeff C

wardd
05-02-2012, 07:06 PM
ya know the obama care bill brown voted against, well guess who's 23 year old daughter is on who's health care

Ian McColgin
05-02-2012, 07:14 PM
And it's fine by me that he uses it even if he's against it, just as it's ok for a person to take tax deductions that he or she is also working to end. You play by the rules even as you try to change them.

The thing that Brown does not seem to get is how what would be a mild financial inconvenience if the law went back to what it was for the Brown family is a very serious problem for many others.

My family was far from poor but when I was graduated from college, I was off Dad's insurance and as a theology graduate student I sure wasn't getting any that way. Which is why I got dental care from Harvard Dental School and mostly hoped nothing bad would happen.

bobbys
05-02-2012, 07:39 PM
obviously you have not clicked on the link and read the article.

So that and we can talk in a common language till then I can't hear you..

I Come in peace.

Do not speak with forked tongue.

I honor The great White/black father.

skipper68
05-02-2012, 10:41 PM
I have personally emailed the White House, that they are not WARDS of the USA. Nuff said. Carry on.

Meli
05-03-2012, 02:13 AM
Okay, tell me what the issue is here: was it not acknowledging her heritage to some one? that she has indian blood, that you feel that she got preference getting a position? sorry disconnect here.
growing up, I learned that my ggrandfather's middle name was Proudfoot...sounds Indian right? I was thrilled that I had a wee bit of Native Indian running through my veins. Then the let down: proudfoot is an old English name, not Native American. A real bummer!

Proudfoot! sounds Hobbitian to me :D

OOPS maybe I should read the threadY:o

bobbys
05-03-2012, 02:22 AM
Another 'nontroversy', blown up to look as if it's somehow significant. 'Hate-filled' doesn't begin to really describe Howie Carr.

We'll go through several dozen MORE of these before election day... you can count on it..

Go to the Search function, type in Sarah Palin/ Norman Bernstein and see how many threads you started .

Ian McColgin
05-03-2012, 07:22 AM
And why did Paul Revere ride to warn the British?

Point being, the purpose of this thread, based with the OP coming from a bile-laden column rather than from a news article, was clearly to troll for liberal embarrassment. But, so sad to say, the story was nothing but a Brown campaign plant based on a series of falsehoods about Warren's hiring - really typical Republican race-baiting not quite as low as promoting 9-9-9 boffoonery but down and close - that is backfiring badly.

The facts have been set out rather sedately. Further rightie efforts to recover by deflection and denial are not working.

David G
05-03-2012, 09:34 AM
We heard from a Bad Baptist, Bain Capital, Reps peeing, Romney a few dozen times, Attack ads but how did Norm miss this one about Ms.Warren.

http://bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1061128614

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/540431_346413122085549_138763606183836_970848_1769 318659_n.jpg

Concordia 33
05-03-2012, 09:38 AM
Ah, were folk to read something other than the barely literate hate filled Howie, they'd know a couple of things, like:

Ms Warren is proud of what she'd been told of her heritage, mentioned it casually, it got into a directory long before she ever taught at Harvard, had no part in her hiring, and was trotted out by some grubby AA padding administrator when they were criticized for not having "enough" minority profs; and

Yes, at least one great grandmother is Cherokee.

Senator Brown started this silly bit but from a campaign gotcha point of view, he started it too early, giving curious geneologists a chance to find the truth and for the conservative folk who hired her to Harvard to say essentially, "I didn't know she had any Native American in her." Meanwhile Brown keeps saying that it's all very suspicious, which he's been saying for too long and he's erroding his support.

So it's all good.

All true, but she also claimed native american status on college applications without the appropriate documentation. A no-no for Native Americans even when they are 1/32 Native American. Her own campaign committee had to ask for independent documentation to verify her status.

Ian McColgin
05-03-2012, 10:01 AM
" . . . she also claimed native american status on college applications without the appropriate documentation." [#43]

I really looked through public sourses and I could find no indication that this is true. There are some right wing blogs that speculate but even they admit that they don't have a document. What is known is that for a directory Warren mentioned family lore about Native American ancestry - lore we now know to be true, independently verified - as a point of interest and we've learned that this was years later utilized by Harvard Law to counter charges of deficiency in the AA biz. BFD.

It's really reckless trolling to repeat accusations that are known to be baseless.

I think half the beef here is Warren's evolution. Read her bio and you'll see that she was really a dutifully conservative goody-two-shoes trying to settle into a comfy spot in the establishment when she started her research on bankruptcy, with all the prejudices against individual bankruptcy that that entailed. What she learned about the victims facing individual bankruptcy and the cynical corruption of corporations using bankruptcy to stiff employees for management profit turned her to centerist liberal. And that apostacy is the reason the right really hates her.

Concordia 33
05-03-2012, 10:13 AM
" . . . she also claimed native american status on college applications without the appropriate documentation." [#43]



I didn't know that ABC news was useful for trolling




“For years, Harvard has claimed special minority status for Professor Elizabeth Warren as a member of a Native American tribe and their first minority hire,” said Jim Barnett, campaign manager for Brown. “That Warren allowed Harvard to hold her up as an example of their commitment to diversity in the hiring of historically disadvantaged communities is an insult to all Americans who have suffered real discrimination and mistreatment, and Warren should apologize for participating in this hypocritical sham.”Warren, who has not provided any documentation on her Native American heritage, said she is “proud” of her lineage.





Elizabeth Warren is under fire for reports she claimed status as a minority lawyer based on a far-back blood connection to the Cherokee line.The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/Boston/politicalintelligence/2012/04/brown-and-warren-campaigns-trade-jabs-over-whether-she-claimed-native-american-status-further-her-legal-career/YIJoy3TQSNCmesneEhHqHK/index.html) reported that the Democratic candidate challenger to Scott Brown in the Senate race in Massachusetts self-identified as a minority from 1986 to 1995, though she has no recent Native American family.Genealogist at the New England Historic Genealogical Society Chris Child set out to hunt down Warren’s ancestry last Thursday. In less than a week, he discovered documents citing an 1894 marriage record that lists Warren’s great-great-great grandmother, O. C. Sarah Smith as Cherokee, meaning that Warren is 1/32nd Native American.Child said roots like these can take anywhere from weeks to months to track down, depending on the twists and turns of the family trees.“Once you go back further than 150 years the records are more complicated to go through,” Child said.For example, that great-great-great grandma of Warren’s also goes by the name “Neoma” or “Oma” in some records. Child said it’s not unusual to find individuals listed under several different names at that time period.The story kicked off Friday when the Boston Herald (http://bostonherald.com/news/politics/view/20220427warren_i_didnt_know_harvard_law_promoted_m y_native_american_lineage) reported on an article that ran in the Harvard Crimson in 1996 about students’ concerns regarding a lack of diversity among the school’s faculty. In the story, Warren, who serves as the Leo Gottlieb Professor of Law at Harvard’s Law School, was cited as Native American. Warren’s identification as Native American pre-dates her time at Harvard.Law School directories from the Association of American Law Schools from 1986-1995 list Warren as a minority law professor. During this time Warren taught at the University of Texas School of Law and the University of Pennsylvania Law School.Though Warren reportedly said last week that she was proud of her heritage, she makes no mention of her ancestry during a profile (http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/02/12/ZYBbaXJJow367027vWMQKN/story.html) of her childhood made by the Boston Globe. The reporter who wrote that story said he did not remember her mentioning anything about her Native American roots. Though he said in an email it was possible that he had forgotten, he thought it was “unlikely that she brought it up.”

Ian McColgin
05-03-2012, 10:24 AM
Concordia33, I do not see in the cites you provide any mention that "she also claimed native american status on college applications . . . " If you invented this, just let us know, but it seems that even the vituperative and factually casual Carr has been careful not to spread that particular story.

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 10:28 AM
Ian.. Depending if people have vetted this source of course, if Ms warren puts on her application Native American and Brown accepts it as proof (her word on it) someone wasn't paying attention as in verification, or someone is playing games with the system. As I said, I would love to have my ggrandfather have a middle name of Proudfoot. To me it sounded Indian and for years, I believed it.I almost could see me putting it on my college application because I believed it. What tribe is Ms. Warren associated with. Has the tribe verified her statement? Tribe elders would know I suspect, if she is a native American or not II'm not saying she is wrong or right but...

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 10:36 AM
Yes, at least one great grandmother is Cherokee.

My ass. You apologists need to get real.

Before the government recognizes you as a "disabled veteran", you have to be awarded a 30% disability from the Veteran's Administration.

The requirement for enrollment with Native American tribes varies, but it's a helluva lot more than an 1894 rumor that an ancestor from circa 1750 had Cherokee blood.

This slimeball gamed the system to be more competitive for employment until she got what she wanted, then tried to cover it up. Today her excuse is she only lied because she wanted to attract Native American friends. What a laugh.

Ian McColgin
05-03-2012, 10:46 AM
Ah Bob, Warren herself always called it family lore and is no doubt delighted that some geneologist bothered to find out for sure - almost as good as having a Mormon in the family if one wants to find out where in Scotland one's lawless and (in my case) low-life ancestors came from. But as you know from reading the news, it is simply untrue to claim that she "gamed the system." There are plenty of things true conservatives - and even more things right wing ideologues - can object to in Ms Warren but not her story. Her life is the classic American story of hard work, talent and brains finding success.

Concordia 33
05-03-2012, 10:50 AM
Concordia33, I do not see in the cites you provide any mention that "she also claimed native american status on college applications . . . " If you invented this, just let us know, but it seems that even the vituperative and factually casual Carr has been careful not to spread that particular story.

In fairness, my point was that she revealed her native american status at Harvard. I don't know what forms she placed this on for Harvard to promote her as a diverity employee or how she could let them use that to promote her as part of their diversity. She is trying to back peddle this now as just wanting to connect up with other people who were similar. It's not like she was a part of any tribal experiences, and even had great difficulty providing the source information to verify her Native American Status. My wife is 1/32 Onondaga, and sounds like her connection to her native american past was was more profound than Warren's and yet she would never have dreamed of declaring this in any way to her employers or academic institutions.

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 10:53 AM
..., it is simply untrue to claim that she "gamed the system."

There are plenty of things true conservatives - and even more things right wing ideologues - can object to in Ms Warren but not her story.



More apologist nonsense. It's patently obvious to a 10-year-old what she did and why she did it. And at three universities until she reached the top...and then suddenly she stopped making the claim.

If she were legit, she'd have gone across campus and gotten herself one of Henry Louis Gates' DNA tests a long time ago.

You probably believe Edwards, too. Warren is just another self-serving slimeball.

Ian McColgin
05-03-2012, 10:58 AM
Since evidence does not appear to righties persisting in embarrassingly false accusations, I don't see that a DNA test would help. For my own part, I can prove which of my ancestors were rather shameless Indian killers. Our family lore of a light-in-the-forest colonial days ancestor is just that, lore unsupported by evidence. It's nice to claim blood empathy but perhaps the blood is only on our hands . . .

leikec
05-03-2012, 11:07 AM
Since evidence does not appear to righties persisting in embarrassingly false accusations, I don't see that a DNA test would help. For my own part, I can prove which of my ancestors were rather shameless Indian killers. Our family lore of a light-in-the-forest colonial days ancestor is just that, lore unsupported by evidence. It's nice to claim blood empathy but perhaps the blood is only on our hands . . .

Outrage is essential to the far right-wing psyche.

Jeff C

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 11:09 AM
My only surprise is how lame her excuse is. I used to think she was at least intelligent.


Democratic Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren, fending off questions about whether she used her Native American heritage to advance her career, said today she enrolled herself as a minority in law school directories for nearly a decade because she hoped to meet other people with tribal roots...

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1061128808

Concordia 33
05-03-2012, 11:11 AM
Since evidence does not appear to righties persisting in embarrassingly false accusations, I don't see that a DNA test would help. For my own part, I can prove which of my ancestors were rather shameless Indian killers. Our family lore of a light-in-the-forest colonial days ancestor is just that, lore unsupported by evidence. It's nice to claim blood empathy but perhaps the blood is only on our hands . . .

Ian:

Claiming native american status is a big deal, and it does require certification. You might do better to say that she said it innocently several years ago without understanding the significance of it, and now that she does she wishes she had not done so. It was at best an innocent mistake, and at worst a gaming of the system, but not defensable in either case though the former would be much less egregious.

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 11:14 AM
Outrage is essential to the far right-wing psyche.

Jeff C

Atta boy. When you don't have an argument, smear the closest Jon Huntsman-flavor Republican.

wardd
05-03-2012, 11:17 AM
warren is 2 things republican men hate, a woman and a democrat

leikec
05-03-2012, 11:19 AM
Quote - "Warren said on Friday that she was unaware Harvard had promoted her as a minority professor and Charles Fried, the professor who recruited Warren to Harvard, said any suggestion that she got her job in part because of a claim of minority status was “totally stupid, ignorant, uninformed and simply wrong.”"



Jeff C

bobbys
05-03-2012, 11:19 AM
A great chief had many pupils. One day, 2 of them were caught lying by their fellow-students and they reported them to The Chief. But he took no action against the Girls
A few days later the same Girls was again caught Lying. And again The Chief did nothing. This angered the other students who drew up a petition asking for the dismissal of the Liars. They threatened to leave en masse if the Girls was allowed to stay.
The Wise Chief called a meeting of the students. When they had assembled he said to them: “You are good Maidens who know what is right and what is wrong. If you leave you will have no trouble in joining some other tribe. But what about your friends who do not even know the difference between right and wrong? Who will teach Them if I don’t? No, I cannot ask them to go even if it means losing all of you.”
Tears coursed down the cheeks of the girls who had lied. They never lied again and in later life became renowned for their integrity..

Many Moons later the Great great great Great granddaughter remembered this story when it was time to check the box as a Indian minority .. And Yet She never forgot her heritage despite being persecuted!
The other Great great great great granddaughter never thought of this and was never heard of again. In Fact she forgot all about the Great wise Chief and the fact she was even ever a Indian. A Foolish Maiden.

Coyote is wise and one can learn from his ways!

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 11:20 AM
Claiming native american status is a big deal, and it does require certification.

Ian knows all that well. And contrary to his feigned innocence here, is usually intellectually honest. I guess Warren was the last "Great White Hope" to take back Teddy's seat, and her going down in flames is a bigger deal than it would be out here where we at least try not to tolerate this kind of dishonesty.

leikec
05-03-2012, 11:22 AM
A great chief had many pupils. One day, 2 of them were caught lying by their fellow-students and they reported them to The Chief. But he took no action against the Girls
A few days later the same Girls was again caught Lying. And again The Chief did nothing. This angered the other students who drew up a petition asking for the dismissal of the Liars. They threatened to leave en masse if the Girls was allowed to stay.
The Wise Chief called a meeting of the students. When they had assembled he said to them: “You are good Maidens who know what is right and what is wrong. If you leave you will have no trouble in joining some other tribe. But what about your friends who do not even know the difference between right and wrong? Who will teach Them if I don’t? No, I cannot ask them to go even if it means losing all of you.”
Tears coursed down the cheeks of the girls who had lied. They never lied again and in later life became renowned for their integrity..

Many Moons later the Great great great Great granddaughter remembered this story when it was time to check the box as a Indian minority .. And Yet She never forgot her heritage despite being persecuted!
The other Great great great great granddaughter never thought of this and was never heard of again. In Fact she forgot all about the Great wise Chief and the fact she was even ever a Indian. A Foolish Maiden.

Coyote is wise and one can learn from his ways!


He-Who-Roofs-Condos should cut back on the firewater so early in the morning... :D:D

Jeff C

Concordia 33
05-03-2012, 11:25 AM
Quote - "Warren said on Friday that she was unaware Harvard had promoted her as a minority professor and Charles Fried, the professor who recruited Warren to Harvard, said any suggestion that she got her job in part because of a claim of minority status was “totally stupid, ignorant, uninformed and simply wrong.”"



Jeff C

But how would they have known she was a "minority" unless she told them - clearly there was no documentation that they could have found independent of what she told them.

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 11:30 AM
Here ya go...on special today for frauds and their apologists. An ancestry.com DNA test for $99:

http://dna.ancestry.com/?autoplay=true&o_xid=51164&o_lid=51164&o_sch=Email#ancestryDNAVideo

http://c.mfcreative.com/offer/dna/launch/homeresults.jpg

But'cha might want to go see Henry Gates instead, as ancestry.com is an official site of the LDS Family History Center.

bobbys
05-03-2012, 11:36 AM
He-Who-Roofs-Condos should cut back on the firewater so early in the morning... :D:D

Jeff C.

LOL I am only here to tell the tales of our forefathers Norm And Ian some how have missed in their own lands.

Old wise Brave who roofs with tar does not drink firewater till after the sun is high in the sky then when it sets over the water!

leikec
05-03-2012, 11:39 AM
It's important to keep Elizabeth Warren out of the Senate so Scott Brown can be reelected as a reliable republican vote....


Jeff C

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 11:46 AM
1) Was a crime committed?

2) Was she being truthful about her heritage?Crime..If one fills out a college application and I do say if. noting her American heritage during a time of affirmative action, I would say it was. Not finable per se, but when colleges are looking for more minorities, well it's not um quite fair to anyone who was bounced from admission because she had an edge.What helps here is that she was being truthful as far as she knew.

Glen Longino
05-03-2012, 11:57 AM
"Warren is just another self-serving slimeball." Bob Smalser

But Mitch McConnell is not, right Bob?:)

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 12:53 PM
As I said. An 1894 rumor of a circa 1750-1790 ancestor having Cherokee blood.

And it's all perfectly OK that Warren used that questionable information to allow herself to be listed in directories as a "minority professor" at three successive colleges...which conveniently ignores how those college employment offices discovered her "minority" status in the first place.


While Warren’s great great great grandmother, named O.C. Sarah Smith, is listed on a electronic transcript of a 1894 marriage application as Cherokee, the genealogists are unable to find the actual record or a photograhic copy of it, Society spokesman Tom Champoux said. A copy of the marriage license itself has been located, but unlike the application, it does not list Smith’s ethnicity.

http://bostonherald.com/news/politics/view/20220502warren_i_used_minority_listing_to_make_fri ends

I suggest Warren apologists cut their losses and roll over on this one, as they are looking sillier and sillier. Her blue-hazel eyes are a clue.

http://static.elizabethwarren.com/assets/images/intro-video-still.jpg

Concordia 33
05-03-2012, 01:00 PM
"Warren is just another self-serving slimeball." Bob Smalser

But Mitch McConnell is not, right Bob?:)


That has nothing to do with this thread!

ChaseKenyon
05-03-2012, 01:01 PM
Ian:

Claiming native american status is a big deal, and it does require certification. You might do better to say that she said it innocently several years ago without understanding the significance of it, and now that she does she wishes she had not done so. It was at best an innocent mistake, and at worst a gaming of the system, but not defensable in either case though the former would be much less egregious.

There is certification and not certification.

There are BIA accepted tribes and BIA jrequires this and minimum % tribal blood. But it differs from tribe to tribe.

For example to be a Choctaw and on the BIA Choctaw Rolls you only have to have 1/16 from or 2 1/16th parents tha are native BIA tribes. Any BIA tribes for one and Choctaw for the other.

A legacy from the great George Washington is the Iroquois situation. GW needed a way to pay his RW officers. So even though two of the 6 Iroquois tribes fed his army for two years, the others sided with England as they had written treaties and promises guaranteed from the King, he decided to take the Iroquois lands and use them to pay off his officers. He had his army pretty much run through all the Iroquois lands and use a "scorched earth" policy to move the tribes out. Then He had a Copngressional rule passed so to be Iroquois you had to be 1/4 th and even if both parents were 1/4 th and living on the rez if one was on the rolls ( my moms family was full blood this is an example) as Onandaga like my grandmother and one parent was Mohawk like my grandfather, the BIA rules you can only use one parent and can not combine them. So by BIA rules that apply only to the 6 Iroquois nations and not to any other NDN tribes Mom would be reduced to 1/8 Mohawk even though by blood she is 1/4 NDN.


So in my personal case with mom being full but half Onandaga and half Mohawk I would be 1/2 NDN. But because of the BIA rules that only apply to Iroquios out over 300 recognized tribes I am by the BIA only 1/4 NDN and have to choose Mohawk or Onandaga.\

It is actually even more complicated since my grandmother was 100% NDN but was half Onandaga and 1/2 Tuscarora.
And her mother was half Cherokee.So by BIA rules So by special rules that only apply to Iroquois Great Grandmother was only 1/2 NDN as Tuscarora, which means Grandmother was was only able to count Onandaga as both of here moms families did not count. THat makes mom 1/4 if I go to Onandaga and if I go to Mohawk she is 1/2 So I can count

Mowhawk but not
Onandaga
tuscarora
CHerokee
Lumbee
seneca.

So by special Iroquois only rules I am only 1/4 Native american even though my mother was real full blood.

Chuck, my Danitaga had under half but was on the rez and Cherokee (the tribes get to choose how and who qualifies for tribal membership) So he was considered NDN by the BIA.

Start dealing with land issues and it gets worse.

However,

Not all benefits (even including some federal ones) require BIA status to receive benefits.

And even more as percentage of non gov. bennies do not require BIA.

Many tribes have saved up money and bought the land with proper deeds in the homelands.

They do not want BIA recognition as that would put land use and leaasing in BIA control. Bia controlled land still owes hundreads of millions of dollars to the NDNs thta they recieved for land use and the NDNs who land it is still have recieved nothing .

Maaestro 562is3 helping me type and I have to go to the docs now.

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 01:07 PM
Well, it looks like this nontroversy is shaping up to be the successor to the 'birthers'.

What controversy?

It's becoming clearer and clearer Warren is a fraud, and because she's also a leftist, you and Ian are defending her. (At least Ian is holding his nose.)

Nothing new there.

Concordia 33
05-03-2012, 01:09 PM
There is certification and not certification.

There are BIA accepted tribes and BIA jrequires this and minimum % tribal blood. But it differs from tribe to tribe.

For example to be a Choctaw and on the BIA Choctaw Rolls you only have to have 1/16 from or 2 1/16th parents tha are native BIA tribes. Any BIA tribes for one and Choctaw for the other.

A legacy from the great George Washington is the Iroquois situation. GW needed a way to pay his RW officers. So even though two of the 6 Iroquois tribes fed his army for two years, the others sided with England as they had written treaties and promises guaranteed from the King, he decided to take the Iroquois lands and use them to pay off his officers. He had his army pretty much run through all the Iroquois lands and use a "scorched earth" policy to move the tribes out. Then He had a Copngressional rule passed so to be Iroquois you had to be 1/4 th and even if both parents were 1/4 th and living on the rez if one was on the rolls ( my moms family was full blood this is an example) as Onandaga like my grandmother and one parent was Mohawk like my grandfather, the BIA rules you can only use one parent and can not combine them. So by BIA rules that apply only to the 6 Iroquois nations and not to any other NDN tribes Mom would be reduced to 1/8 Mohawk even though by blood she is 1/4 NDN.


So in my personal case with mom being full but half Onandaga and half Mohawk I would be 1/2 NDN. But because of the BIA rules that only apply to Iroquios out over 300 recognized tribes I am by the BIA only 1/4 NDN and have to choose Mohawk or Onandaga.\

It is actually even more complicated since my grandmother was 100% NDN but was half Onandaga and 1/2 Tuscarora.
And her mother was half Cherokee.So by BIA rules So by special rules that only apply to Iroquois Great Grandmother was only 1/2 NDN as Tuscarora, which means Grandmother was was only able to count Onandaga as both of here moms families did not count. THat makes mom 1/4 if I go to Onandaga and if I go to Mohawk she is 1/2 So I can count

Mowhawk but not
Onandaga
tuscarora
CHerokee
Lumbee
seneca.

So by special Iroquois only rules I am only 1/4 Native american even though my mother was real full blood.

Chuck, my Danitaga had under half but was on the rez and Cherokee (the tribes get to choose how and who qualifies for tribal membership) So he was considered NDN by the BIA.

Start dealing with land issues and it gets worse.

However,

Not all benefits (even including some federal ones) require BIA status to receive benefits.

And even more as percentage of non gov. bennies do not require BIA.

Many tribes have saved up money and bought the land with proper deeds in the homelands.

They do not want BIA recognition as that would put land use and leaasing in BIA control. Bia controlled land still owes hundreads of millions of dollars to the NDNs thta they recieved for land use and the NDNs who land it is still have recieved nothing .

Maaestro 562is3 helping me type and I have to go to the docs now.


Thanks for that, but correct me if I am mistaken, that you need more than the belief that you are native american to claim the status in any official capacity. Some sort of record. What would stop any person from claiming a distant native american ancestry as physical characteristics would not be very noticeable in someone less than say 1/4 native american thus making it possible for virtually anyone to claim native american status. I would think that someone with legal training such as Ms. Warren would know this better than most.

ccmanuals
05-03-2012, 01:17 PM
It's at least comforting to know that the good people of MA will make their decision regarding Warren and Brown and not the WBF.

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 01:23 PM
Concordia your answer is None at all. It took me 3+ years to be recognized as a descendant of the Mayflower. Did that for my nephews if later on, they might be interested. At the turn of the century, there was a big desire to be a member. Thousands were approved on folk lore and incorrect information. Consequently, the DAR and the Mayflower Society tightened the rules for eligibility In fact the DAR does not take applications, you have to be invited to join. I hate to think about confirming one's heritage from one tribe needless to say two, or three or even more. Folk lore.For a start, maybe.

Ian McColgin
05-03-2012, 01:23 PM
We have yet to see evidence that Ms Warren made any hint to " to claim the status in any official capacity." [#74] Norm is right, this has become parallel to the "Birthers" in terms of the insane "questions". It's running to be a tight race but I think that panicky inventions like this from Brown and his corporate masters will backfire badly.

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 01:25 PM
Now she's claiming her high cheekbones are justification for her allowing here employers to claim credit for her as a "minority hire" for over a decade.

Wonder how her employers found out she was a "minority", if she wasn't complicit in gaming affirmative action policies to gain advantage in employment? And why is she so desperately scrambling to get out from under this? Three lamely-defensive videos in three days?

Yet she was dumb enough to use a portait on her campaign website (photo above) showing her blue eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uegqTj3SHO4&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uegqTj3SHO4&feature=player_detailpage

Glen Longino
05-03-2012, 01:28 PM
That has nothing to do with this thread!

Of course it does!
See Smalser's post #73 in which he refers to "leftists" defending Warren because she's a lefty.
I merely asked Bob if he defends McConnell's slimeballishness simply because he's a "rightist".
Of course, if Bob answers honestly, his answer will be "yes".:D

Ian McColgin
05-03-2012, 01:31 PM
The right wing pawns don't even bother to listen to the video that their puppeteers claim to get their stuff from. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uegqTj3SHO4

Concordia 33
05-03-2012, 01:37 PM
The right wing pawns don't even bother to listen to the video that their puppeteers claim to get their stuff from. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uegqTj3SHO4

Not really sure what this video has to do with anything. I watched it all and couldn't find any relevance to the discussions here on the thread for or against. It doesn't explain how Harvard would think and promote the fact that she was a minority faculty?

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 01:38 PM
Norman.. If there is any truth to what has been previously posted and if you have vetted the source as acceptable, one could say that incorrectly filling out the application with the purpose of being accepted is fraud. One cannot excuse that because she thought she was Native Indian. Regarding some other points, preference for financial aid, work.etc. Ex I applied with the state of Oregan to be put on the list for imployment. The application centered on experience etc and was graded by what was submitted. Had I been a vet, I would have started with 10 points out of a possible 100 on the form. Ten points makes a difference in getting on the list...

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 01:46 PM
Norman.. There will be controversy until she sows proof than anything she has said or written on an application or put on her resume would be moot as everything she said, wrote, printed would be true. Case closed.

Ian McColgin
05-03-2012, 01:55 PM
"Not really sure what this video has to do with anything . . . " [#82] Well, now that the video has been added to the original riff about high cheekbones [#79], it's obvious.

Amazing that people can make such a mountain out of a person honestly sharing family lore, a person who did not even seek much less obtain AA considerations. Had she been qualified, by the way, I'd have had no problem supporting her getting them, just as I support the AA benefits that enabled Justice Thomas to get through Holy Cross, and I feel very sorry for him that he's so conflicted about that. But Ms Warren was never an AA enrollee or later hire on the basis of race.

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 02:01 PM
I don't think anyone actually knows Ian. Your opinion noted. certainly using her position and heritage is a plus for an Ivy league school and allows them to say," hey look we're an equal opportunity employer"

bobbys
05-03-2012, 02:02 PM
How can we trust someone in office that abuses Minority status?.

Will she find No show jobs for her "tribe"?.

What person with one quarter Indian blood did not get the advantages when someone else Time Traveled.

Where was she in her early life at a Reservation helping Indians, She just needed them when it suited her!

Ian McColgin
05-03-2012, 02:12 PM
Jamie, I quite agree that Harvard Law School's use of Ms Warren was, to say the very least, a stretch. I can see not wanting to make an uproar over what could seem like incidental bragging by the administration over something that she rather cherished about her heritage anyway, but if she's guilty of anything, it's that she didn't realize the full import of what they were doing.

Glen Longino
05-03-2012, 02:15 PM
Norman.. If there is any truth to what has been previously posted and if you have vetted the source as acceptable, one could say that incorrectly filling out the application with the purpose of being accepted is fraud. One cannot excuse that because she thought she was Native Indian. Regarding some other points, preference for financial aid, work.etc. Ex I applied with the state of Oregan to be put on the list for imployment. The application centered on experience etc and was graded by what was submitted. Had I been a vet, I would have started with 10 points out of a possible 100 on the form. Ten points makes a difference in getting on the list...

"Ex(sic) I applied with the state of Oregan(sic) to be put on the list for imployment(sic)."

Perhaps you had too many"sics" on your application to be considered for employment?;)

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 02:18 PM
No evidence she didn't either Norman. Of course she used the fact of being a NA.Got her name in print with her version of her bio. The Ivy League is milking it for all it's worth as it is usually a bastion of WASPS etc.It looks darn good to future applicants. looks good for fund raising. In fact, it comes across as a feather in their cap literally. If it isn't true, it's abuse.If you want to say differently fine.

bobbys
05-03-2012, 02:18 PM
"Ex(sic) I applied with the state of Oregan(sic) to be put on the list for imployment(sic)."

Perhaps you had too many"sics" on your application to be considered for employment?;).

No i think he misspelled Oregone.

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 02:22 PM
Still chasing me Glen. Glad you were able to track me down. And for what it's worth, my lef arm is totally numb and difficult to use. I'm basically stuck with using my right hand to type. So, I didn't catch it. A big deal to you obviously,but not to me.

bobbys
05-03-2012, 02:33 PM
Where is the evidence that she 'abused' minority status?

There's no smoking gun here, whatsoever..

Harvard has been using Warrens Indian status to increase their diversity hiring record. Harvard had filled their Quota on a fib? So I could Check any box? Warren is now stated that her great-great-great-grandmother was Cherokee but the tribe itself does not have her listed. Warren fibbed about all this to bolster her stature professionally , Besides who wants to say anything against a Native American in a Political race, She used this as a shield.
She is unfit for for office. This calls into question her character and truthfulness. And yet your not concerned about this?.

Pull out the Woman/gender card if this does not work pull out the Indian oppressed minority card.

What would stop me from saying family "lore" says we were poor black sharecroppers in Georgia to gather points on a job application.

I have filled out applications where the boxes were listed.

Why would anyone be truthful if there is no accountability and your chances are increased.

Why do you endorse this?{logical fallacy used inappropriately to trick Glenn!}

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 02:44 PM
Jamie, I quite agree that Harvard Law School's use of Ms Warren was, to say the very least, a stretch. I can see not wanting to make an uproar over what could seem like incidental bragging by the administration over something that she rather cherished about her heritage anyway, but if she's guilty of anything, it's that she didn't realize the full import of what they were doing.It's called consequences Ian. Rarely does anyone do much without consequences. She may have cherished a myth. She should not have used this myth without fact to either better her position or the University's.I'm sorry I just can't accept this. If I thought I might be a NA, I would have researched it and not relied on folk lore. I gave a perfect example: Proudfoot being my ggrandfather's middle name. As I wrote, I loved the myth, I loved the association with NA's. I thought I had, but then I did a little research and poof.

wardd
05-03-2012, 02:50 PM
As I said. An 1894 rumor of a circa 1750-1790 ancestor having Cherokee blood.

And it's all perfectly OK that Warren used that questionable information to allow herself to be listed in directories as a "minority professor" at three successive colleges...which conveniently ignores how those college employment offices discovered her "minority" status in the first place.



http://bostonherald.com/news/politics/view/20220502warren_i_used_minority_listing_to_make_fri ends

I suggest Warren apologists cut their losses and roll over on this one, as they are looking sillier and sillier. Her blue-hazel eyes are a clue.

http://static.elizabethwarren.com/assets/images/intro-video-still.jpg

no matter, i'd still vote for her over the other hypocrite

leikec
05-03-2012, 02:58 PM
There is certification and not certification.

There are BIA accepted tribes and BIA jrequires this and minimum % tribal blood. But it differs from tribe to tribe.

For example to be a Choctaw and on the BIA Choctaw Rolls you only have to have 1/16 from or 2 1/16th parents tha are native BIA tribes. Any BIA tribes for one and Choctaw for the other.

A legacy from the great George Washington is the Iroquois situation. GW needed a way to pay his RW officers. So even though two of the 6 Iroquois tribes fed his army for two years, the others sided with England as they had written treaties and promises guaranteed from the King, he decided to take the Iroquois lands and use them to pay off his officers. He had his army pretty much run through all the Iroquois lands and use a "scorched earth" policy to move the tribes out. Then He had a Copngressional rule passed so to be Iroquois you had to be 1/4 th and even if both parents were 1/4 th and living on the rez if one was on the rolls ( my moms family was full blood this is an example) as Onandaga like my grandmother and one parent was Mohawk like my grandfather, the BIA rules you can only use one parent and can not combine them. So by BIA rules that apply only to the 6 Iroquois nations and not to any other NDN tribes Mom would be reduced to 1/8 Mohawk even though by blood she is 1/4 NDN.


So in my personal case with mom being full but half Onandaga and half Mohawk I would be 1/2 NDN. But because of the BIA rules that only apply to Iroquios out over 300 recognized tribes I am by the BIA only 1/4 NDN and have to choose Mohawk or Onandaga.\

It is actually even more complicated since my grandmother was 100% NDN but was half Onandaga and 1/2 Tuscarora.
And her mother was half Cherokee.So by BIA rules So by special rules that only apply to Iroquois Great Grandmother was only 1/2 NDN as Tuscarora, which means Grandmother was was only able to count Onandaga as both of here moms families did not count. THat makes mom 1/4 if I go to Onandaga and if I go to Mohawk she is 1/2 So I can count

Mowhawk but not
Onandaga
tuscarora
CHerokee
Lumbee
seneca.

So by special Iroquois only rules I am only 1/4 Native american even though my mother was real full blood.

Chuck, my Danitaga had under half but was on the rez and Cherokee (the tribes get to choose how and who qualifies for tribal membership) So he was considered NDN by the BIA.

Start dealing with land issues and it gets worse.

However,

Not all benefits (even including some federal ones) require BIA status to receive benefits.

And even more as percentage of non gov. bennies do not require BIA.

Many tribes have saved up money and bought the land with proper deeds in the homelands.

They do not want BIA recognition as that would put land use and leaasing in BIA control. Bia controlled land still owes hundreads of millions of dollars to the NDNs thta they recieved for land use and the NDNs who land it is still have recieved nothing .

Maaestro 562is3 helping me type and I have to go to the docs now.



I gave Chuck a hard time about his heritage-he was 5/16 Native American by blood, but at times he almost gave the impression that he was personally responsible for the outcome of Custer's defeat at Little Bighorn. :D

I'm about 3/16 Native American, but unlike Chuck, I wasn't immersed in that culture from childhood. That certainly makes a difference.

Chuck never took offense to my kidding, and later he was most kind to me when I had to endure a long stretch in the hospital.

This Elizabeth Warren thing is election year politics, and nothing more.

Jeff C

David G
05-03-2012, 03:03 PM
.

Harvard has been using Warrens Indian status to increase their diversity hiring record. Harvard had filled their Quota on a fib? So I could Check any box? Warren is now stated that her great-great-great-grandmother was Cherokee but the tribe itself does not have her listed. Warren fibbed about all this to bolster her stature professionally , Besides who wants to say anything against a Native American in a Political race, She used this as a shield.
She is unfit for for office. This calls into question her character and truthfulness. And yet your not concerned about this?.

Pull out the Woman/gender card if this does not work pull out the Indian oppressed minority card.

What would stop me from saying family "lore" says we were poor black sharecroppers in Georgia to gather points on a job application.

I have filled out applications where the boxes were listed.

Why would anyone be truthful if there is no accountability and your chances are increased.

Why do you endorse this?{logical fallacy used inappropriately to trick Glenn!}

He didn't say, "Where are more charges and assertions?"

He said, "Where is the evidence to SUPPORT the charges, assertions, assumptions, and speculation that's been offered up?"

It's not gonna do any good this time to just keep saying the same thing as if everyone knows it's true, and hope that it eventually becomes accepted. Ol' Norman is too wily to fall for that ol' dodge. So... do you have evidence? Or do you want to try one more round of 'repetition will make it real'?

Too bad this cartoon doesn't have a bow/arrow in place of the slingshop --

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/540431_346413122085549_138763606183836_970848_1769 318659_n.jpg

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 03:04 PM
Wardd, we all know who you would vote for including this guy. You can probably relate to him.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/579356/thumbs/s-BLAGOJEVICH-PRISON-large300.jpg

wardd
05-03-2012, 03:05 PM
Wardd, we all know who you would vote for including
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/579356/thumbs/s-BLAGOJEVICH-PRISON-large300.jpg

he keeps his grooming better than you do

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 03:13 PM
Lots of time in jail to do his hair. What else does he have to do but comb his hair?

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 03:18 PM
Oh Liz, Liz, my heart is broken.

We on the Estrogen Express thought we’d finally found our Golden Girl.

And now?

This could be your Seamus moment.

This could be the beginning of your end — like when Rim Tim Tim Murray rope-a-doped about releasing his cellphone calls.

I just can’t shake the ridiculous image of you, Liz — a blue-eyed blonde almost as pasty white as me — letting yourself be described as a minority professor, a Native American, for years.

You’ve played the Indian card. You’ve grabbed for minority cred without enduring the minority grief. It’s poached diversity. It’s glommed onto, what, five generations removed, assuming there were some facts way, way back when, as your campaign aides claimed last night.

How long before wise guys in feathered headdresses start dancing around parking lots at your events? Somebody told me yesterday your campaign needs to lie low and “circle the wagons.” Whoops. That same someone quickly realized it was the pioneers who circled the wagons when your Cherokee ancestors were blazing across the prairie on the warpath.

Here’s the problem for you, Liz: We’re not talking some elaborate, arcane, confusing financial irregularity here that nobody can understand. Everybody gets this. It’s letting everyone think you’re something that you’re not. It’s letting stand the idea that you’re part of an aggrieved class of people. It’s a sin of omission, which is not as bad as a sin of commission — like, you know, the typical political ploy of pumping up resumes with fake claims of combat heroism and purple hearts. But it’s a huge problem nonetheless.

You’re running against a Republican most everybody likes in a state filled with lock-step Democrats. And your chief selling point was your upright character. You were the self-described crusader who would take on corrupt greed heads on behalf of the beleaguered middle class.

Now what are you? Well, now you’re in hiding, I guess, trying to get your story straight.



http://bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1061128418

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 03:32 PM
Everyone here is more than happy to say Romney isn't who he is or wants to be..Thread after thread about that. never ending. Now there is a dem who MAY not be who we believe she is. Instant support, spins,people on the defensive...Everyone rushing around like lemmings heading to sea, trying to posts in her defense. Gotta love it. have fun and rest up a bit. You must be exhausted.

Glen Longino
05-03-2012, 03:34 PM
Still chasing me Glen. Glad you were able to track me down. And for what it's worth, my lef arm is totally numb and difficult to use. I'm basically stuck with using my right hand to type. So, I didn't catch it. A big deal to you obviously,but not to me.

I don't have to "chase" you.
You're underfoot like dog piles in the yard everywhere I go, and popping off like a two-bit pistol on every thread.
I sincerely wish you good luck with your physical afflictions, but if you know you're prone to mis-keying and brain-farting, you must learn to take extra time in editing your posts, otherwise I'll continue to dog you like Donn dogs all the rest of us for infractions.
Personally, I believe you are merely physically lazy and mentally detached rather than physically challenged. Case closed! So be it!
End of story! Good night...and all those other banalities you're so fond of!:)

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 03:40 PM
No, your not chasing me anymore than a retriever chases a ball. Hey, better leave, I'm sure wardd is missing you immensely.He doesn't do well on his own and needs a hug.

wardd
05-03-2012, 03:45 PM
Lots of time in jail to do his hair. What else does he have to do but comb his hair?

other than this site what else have you to do, not much from what i hear?

Glen Longino
05-03-2012, 03:49 PM
No, your not chasing me anymore than a retriever chases a ball. Hey, better leave, I'm sure wardd is missing you immensely.He doesn't do well on his own and needs a hug.

Please forgive me for not responding to this post with all the fervor it so justly deserves,
but I just received a PM from Scot and have decided to keep my mouth shut for the moment or risk bannishment. Carry on! End of story! So be it!:D

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 03:51 PM
I suspect, since you are here as much as you are, I do as much as you do wardd.
Hey wardd, tell me what you hear?What planet are you tuning into because it isn't mine. Just yell "help!" to Lenny, he will be right back to help you. Don't cry.?
http://the60sofficialsite.com/images/antenna%20-%20My%20Favorite%20Martian.jpg

wardd
05-03-2012, 03:54 PM
I suspect, since you are here as much as you are, I do as much as you do wardd.
Hey wardd, tell me what you hear?What planet are you tuning into?
http://the60sofficialsite.com/images/antenna%20-%20My%20Favorite%20Martian.jpg

that was pretty bad

i enjoy creative put downs, so if you need help just ask

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 03:59 PM
That wasn't a put down. As you are faceless, any image I find that suggests you have fantastic hearing would, I think work. For all I know, I posted a picture of you.

wardd
05-03-2012, 04:00 PM
That wasn't a put down. As you are faceless, any image I find that suggests you have fantastic hearing would, I think work. For all I know, I posted a picture of you.

you may have

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 04:43 PM
My only surprise is how lame her excuse (that she listed herself as a "minority professor" at Texas, Penn and Harvard because she wanted to use that listing in the law directories as a vehicle to attract other Native Americans.).

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1061128808

Now it turns out that yesterday's excuse above was all a complete fabrication, as those law directories don't specify which minority the "minority professor" is a member of. Hence how could she possibly attract Native Americans with an entry that doesn't label her accordingly?

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/05/elizabeth-warren-claims-listed-herself-as-minority-to-meet-people-but-story-doesnt-hold-up/




Here’s her entry on the 1986-87 AALS List II, Minority Law Teachers:

http://legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Elizabeth-Warren-1986-87-AALS-Directory-Section-List-II-Minority-Law-Teachers-entry.jpg

Here’s her entry on the 1994-95 AALS List II, Minority Law Teachers:

http://legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Elizabeth-Warren-1994-AALS-Directory-Section-List-II-Minority-Law-Teachers-entry.jpg

I checked, and her full bios also did not disclose her Native American status. Perhaps Warren just lumped all minorities together in her friendship plans.

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 04:50 PM
Bob.. did the blurb come with a photo? I think if it included a photo, it would be hard to identify her as a black, latino, Asian, or any other minority eccept maybe NA.by ancestry.

bobbys
05-03-2012, 04:53 PM
Do not fret Bob those 5000 people sent up to Alaska to dig up dirt on SPs emails are busy doing archeology digs as we speak...

ChrisBen
05-03-2012, 04:56 PM
Do not fret Bob those 5000 people sent up to Alaska to dig up dirt on SPs emails are busy doing archeology digs as we speak...I bet half of em were from you. :D

bobbys
05-03-2012, 04:58 PM
I bet half of em were from you. :D.

LOL no the court had a restraining order on me ...

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 05:15 PM
Bob.. did the blurb come with a photo?

No. No photos of those high cheekbones and blue eyes inherited from "Paw-Paw".

But there's no doubt she has tribal origins. Angles, Saxons, Jutes and probably Celts. Maybe even a pinch of Swabian to explain her more swarthy children.

adampet
05-03-2012, 06:21 PM
Oh wait, you mean she was a minority all along! How many female Law professors were there at Harvard at the time?
anyone got an answer for that?

Really, Tempest in a tea cup folks, glad I get to vote for her. Smart lady, good American roots, fights for the consumer. What's not to love!?

Adam

wardd
05-03-2012, 07:50 PM
Oh wait, you mean she was a minority all along! How many female Law professors were there at Harvard at the time?
anyone got an answer for that?

Really, Tempest in a tea cup folks, glad I get to vote for her. Smart lady, good American roots, fights for the consumer. What's not to love!?

Adam

but she's a woman, republican men hate that

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 09:31 PM
but she's a woman, republican men hate that

Warren is so rattled by getting caught in a lie she's making up BS as she goes along...and is getting tripped up by it. Not a person I want dealing with national grand strategy.

In turn, you are reduced to juvenile smears because you don't have a logical argument otherwise. But this is the Bilge...chock full of political hacks with nothing else to contribute...so you fit right in.

wardd
05-03-2012, 10:26 PM
Warren is so rattled by getting caught in a lie she's making up BS as she goes along...and is getting tripped up by it. Not a person I want dealing with national grand strategy.

In turn, you are reduced to juvenile smears because you don't have a logical argument otherwise. But this is the Bilge...chock full of political hacks with nothing else to contribute...so you fit right in.

let's see, brown wants to kill obamacare but puts his 23 year old daughter on his plan

do i want that kind of hypocrite making decisions about health care?


naw

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 10:54 PM
let's see, brown wants to kill obamacare but puts his 23 year old daughter on his plan



Except we're not talking about Brown here.

S.V. Airlie
05-03-2012, 11:16 PM
Warren is so rattled by getting caught in a lie she's making up BS as she goes along...and is getting tripped up by it. Not a person I want dealing with national grand strategy.

In turn, you are reduced to juvenile smears because you don't have a logical argument otherwise. But this is the Bilge...chock full of political hacks with nothing else to contribute...so you fit right in.High cheek bones Maybe asian or Chinese. Blue eyes, there is a sect in the interior of Mongolia that immigrated from Scotland. Can still find tribe members wearing kilts ( or similar dress) or tartan material. I suspect, genetically having blue eyes would not be beyond possibility

Bob Smalser
05-03-2012, 11:30 PM
. I suspect, genetically having blue eyes would not be beyond possibility

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/23549184/392897605.jpg

Norman was desperate (and slow-witted) enough to bring it up, so let's pursue it. What percentage of Cherokees or Delawares do you spose has blue eyes and blond hair? Both massively-recessive genes, BTW. Besides the Angles and Jutes branch from Dansk and Svenska-speaking areas and Schleswig-Holstein, that is?

http://static.elizabethwarren.com/assets/images/intro-video-still.jpg

One out of 1500 with blue eyes? One out of 100,000 with both blue eyes and blond hair. Perhaps a brilliant geneticist like Norman can help us out?

L.W. Baxter
05-03-2012, 11:56 PM
Recalling my jr. high biology lessons on the interplay of dominant and recessive genes: one brown-eyed ancestor does not eliminate the possibility of blue eyes in descending generations. Brown eyes are the likely result of a mix between brown and blue-eyed parents, but the possibility of blue eyes, even in the first generation, is not excluded. And after several generations with no further introduction of the dominant brown-eyed gene, the occurrence of brown eyes would actually become the statistical anomaly.

L.W. Baxter
05-03-2012, 11:58 PM
The real scandal here is Harvard University. Everyone ever associated with that slimeball institution should be removed from positions of power and influence immediately!

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 12:10 AM
Recalling my jr. high biology lessons on the interplay of dominant and recessive genes: one brown-eyed ancestor does not eliminate the possibility of blue eyes in descending generations. Brown eyes are the likely result of a mix between brown and blue-eyed parents, but the possibility of blue eyes, even in the first generation, is not excluded. And after several generations with no further introduction of the dominant brown-eyed gene, the occurrence of brown eyes would actually become the statistical anomaly.

Gold Star.

But meaningless without some percentages. Surely someone wearing a cowboy hat has extensive experience with Native Americans. How many do you know with blond hair and blue eyes?

L.W. Baxter
05-04-2012, 12:19 AM
Gold Star.

But meaningless without some percentages. Surely someone wearing a cowboy hat has extensive experience with Native Americans. How many do you know with blond hair and blue eyes?

She's not a Native American. I'm not defending her claims of minority status. But it is quite possible that she has one or more Native American ancestors.

As for your percentages: as I state, if Warren were to look Native American after several generations of dilution with pure Europeans, that would be the statistical anomaly. Blond and blue are recessive genes, but with enough repetition, they become predominantly expressed.

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 12:24 AM
But it is quite possible that she has one or more Native American ancestors.

So she could demonstrate that with a simple, hundred-dollar DNA test, eh? Anticipating this level of vetting like all competent political tacticians strategists, wonder whay she hasn't done that already?

L.W. Baxter
05-04-2012, 12:32 AM
I don't think it matters much what genetic tests might show. This business is a deep gouge to her reputation, and to the reputations of the schools who counted her as a "minority".

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 12:43 AM
I don't think it matters much what genetic tests might show. This business is a deep gouge to her reputation, and to the reputations of the schools who counted her as a "minority".

As this country is predominantly Englander-Welsh, Ulster-Scot, Irish and Rhineland-German by well over two thirds, it seems to me that blond, blue-eyed Angles and Jutes are a legitimate minority, and we should forgive her blatant fraud.

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 05:52 AM
I thought that people who live in the west were more aware of the difference between a little Native American ancestry and tribal status, especially with the Cherokee nations, the issues of their slaves, the Dawes roll, and the many who regardless of "blood" were not tribal, like LaDonna Harris. Ms Warren is guilty of truthfully celebrating her Native American heritage. It's been well demonstrated that she did not use or even incidentally and unknowingly "benefit" from that in any college or law school acceptance or in any job placement. We've also seen how HLS (but interestingly not previous law schools she taught at) excused themselves by pointing informally to her as a minority representative but NEVER was her purported minority status used to fullfull an affirmative action quota. That seems to be why she didn't rock the boat on that issue.

Anyway, most (but clearly not all, to judge by the near birther style foaming at the mouth on this forum) folk know that all Native American nations have interesting "blood line" issues and while few are as messy as our local Wampanoags, the Cherokee nations certainly have interesting tribal/genetic/legal issues. You will recall the interesting histories of Michael Dorris and Louise Erdrich, or perhaps you won't. The vast majority of folk who can claim a discernable measure of Cherokee "blood" are, like Ms Warren, not members of one of the nations.

It's a grand thing that the Brown campaign initiated this scurrolous attack and that Brown himself continues the meanly-mouthed birther-style "she's got some 'splaining to do" because they did it way too early and as the full story emerges they cover themselves with the excrement they are attempting to sling.

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 06:09 AM
Something like the points I was trying to make but at greater length and with far greater authority. I’m guessing that some righties won’t be swayed by the fact that a certified Native American law professor thinks Ms Warren is just fine.

New York Times MAY 4, 2012, 12:33 AM
Elizabeth Warren’s Birther Moment
By KEVIN NOBLE MAILLARD

If you are 1/32 Cherokee and your grandfather has high cheekbones, does that make you Native American? It depends. Last Friday, Republicans in Massachusetts questioned Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren’s racial ancestry. Her opponent, Senator Scott Brown, has accused her of using minority status as an American Indian to advance her career as a law professor at Harvard, the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Texas. The Brown campaign calls her ties to the Cherokee and Delaware nations a “hypocritical sham.”

In a press conference on Wednesday, Warren defended herself, saying, “Native American has been a part of my story, I guess since the day I was born, I don’t know any other way to describe it.” Despite her personal belief in her origins, her opponents have seized this moment in an unnecessary fire drill that guarantees media attention and forestalls real debate.

This tactic is straight from the Republican cookbook of fake controversy. First, you need a rarefied elected office typically occupied by a certain breed of privileged men. Both the Presidency and the Senate fit this bill. Second, add a bit of interracial intrigue.*It could be Kenyan economists eloping with Midwestern anthropologists, or white frontiersmen pairing with indigenous women.*Third, throw in some suspicion about their qualifications and ambitions.*Last but not least, demand documentation of ancestry and be dissatisfied upon its receipt. Voila! You have a genuine birther movement.

The Republican approach to race is to feign that it is irrelevant — until it becomes politically advantageous to bring it up.*Birthers question Obama’s state of origin (and implicitly his multiracial heritage) in efforts to disqualify him from the presidency. They characterize him as “other.”*For Warren, Massachusetts Republicans place doubts on her racial claims to portray her as an opportunistic academic seeking special treatment. In both birther camps, opponents look to ancestral origins as the smoking gun, and ride the ambiguity for the duration.

Proving Native American ancestry is a complex, bureaucratic process.*It’s more than showing up at the tribal enrollment office with a family bible and some black and white pictures. Many people are rejected, even when family lore tells them otherwise. Tribal citizenship depends on descent from an enrolled ancestor, and every tribe has its own requirements.

In the Cherokee Nation, there is no minimum blood requirement, which would allow someone with as little as 1/128 Cherokee blood to enroll (that would be a great-great-great-great-great grandparent). Finding that remote relative is not conclusive, however. The ancestor may not have enrolled himself. Or he could have favored assimilation and counted himself as white. Or her application was rejected or she became ineligible for citizenship.

Like Elizabeth Warren, I am a law professor who was born in Oklahoma.*I am enrolled as a member of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, which, along with the Cherokee Nation, has recently experienced great strife in defining what it means to be Native. In the past year, the arguments have escalated nationwide. Some members say that tribes should be composed only of members with high degrees of Indian blood. Others say it should be geographically based. And some others say citizenship should be based on history and culture, regardless of blood or residence. In my personal opinion, it’s whether you have a fry bread chef-lady as a relative. (In my family, I’m that “lady.”)

Even within Indian Country, the meaning of race and citizenship is contested. And now the Brown campaign wants to dictate Warren’s own belief in her identity. According to the Brown campaign, Warren could not be Indian because she is blonde, rich and most of all, a Harvard law professor. Her 1/32 Cherokee ancestry, sufficient for tribal citizenship, is not enough for the Republican party. To most people, she appears as white as, well, Betty White, but to the Scott Brown campaign, she is just Dancing With Wolves.

The Brown campaign asserts that Warren knowingly classified herself as Native American in the 1990s when Harvard weathered sharp criticism for its lack of faculty diversity. During this time, they argue, Warren relied upon this classification to enhance her employment opportunities and to improve Harvard’s numbers. Her faculty mentors at Harvard deny this and assert that the law school hired Warren without any knowledge of her ancestry.

Admittedly, news of Elizabeth Warren’s Cherokee and Delaware ancestry comes as a surprise. There simply are not enough places in legal academia for Native American professors to hide. The community is tight and small.*It’s like*“Peyton Place,” but with academic arguments over subject matter jurisdiction. According to the Association of American Law Schools, Native law professors are only .5% of all law faculty — about fifty people out of 11,000.

Native faculty are familiar with “box checkers”: those students and faculty who become Native for the temporary moment of admissions or employment.*As soon as the application is mailed or the interview completed, the candidate returns to life as usual. The Cherokee Princess Grandmother served her purpose, and her memory is revived at convenient times.

This merits a reexamination of the difficult question of what it means to be Native. Does that make the Chickasaw kid from Buckhead in Atlanta any less Native than the Navajo faculty candidate from Windy Gap? What does a Native even look like? It’s more than long black hair, feathers and beads. At the same time, it is more than checking a box.

Someone’s subjective opinion about her heritage may conflict with tribal requirements for membership. The standards are not constant, and they may change with new tribal governments.*This happened in my tribe in 2002, when the new chief decided that some members were not “Indian enough.” Even at home, the tribal government falls into stereotypes.

For the Cherokee Nation, Warren is “Indian enough;” she has the same blood quantum as Cherokee Nation Chief Bill John Baker. For non-Natives, this may be surprising. They expect to see “high cheekbones,” as Warren described her grandfather as having, or tan skin. They want to know of pow wows, dusty reservations, sweat lodges, peyote and cheap cigarettes. When outsiders look at these ostensibly white people as members of Native America, they don’t see minorities. As a result, Warren feels she must satisfy these new birthers and justify her existence.

Looked at from the inside, however, the Warren controversy is all new. When the Brown campaign accused Elizabeth Warren of touting herself as American Indian to advance her career, this was news to Native law professors. We have a good eye for welcoming faculty to the community and identifying promising scholars. We know where people teach, what they have published and we honor them when they die. Harvard Law School named its first Native American tenured professor? Really? In our small indigenous faculty town, we would have heard about it already.

# # # # #

Kevin Noble Maillard is a law professor at Syracuse University and a member of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma.*He is the co-editor of “Loving v. Virginia is a Post Racial World: Rethinking Race, Sex, and Marriage,” which will be published later this month.

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 08:11 AM
Sorry. Won't fly, however elegant the demagoguery, because there is no substance. A 1894 rumor that you had a circa 1750 ancestor with Cherokee blood is NOT 1/32 Cherokee.

Even her fellow Dems are questioning her veracity:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/75903.html




But privately even some Democrats agree with Republicans that her handling of the situation has damaged her credibility as the rookie candidate tries to introduce herself to voters in the nation’s marquee Senate race.

“I don’t quite get it,” said one veteran Democratic strategist working on 2012 races, adding that the explanation has not made sense.

Warren has insisted that she did not cite her Native American ties in order to gain an edge in the legal teaching world, and her campaign released statements from officials at Harvard, and the universities of Pennsylvania, Texas and Houston that said her lineage played no role in their decisions to hire her. And she has tried to turn the questions into accusations that Brown was unfairly questioning her qualifications.

But that failed to quell questions over why she even listed herself as a minority professor in the first place, whether she could produce adequate documentation proving she had tribal ties and why the law directories no longer listed her in that regard after she gained tenure at Harvard. After the Boston press revealed she listed herself as a minority law teacher for nearly a decade from 1986 to 1995 — and Harvard Law School touted her as a diversity hire in the mid-1990s — even some fellow Ivy League law professors question how she could justifiably list herself as a person with minority roots in a profession that lacks diversity.

“If she is 1/32nd Native American … is it really appropriate to list yourself that way and knowing you will therefore be listed as a minority law professor?” asked William Jacobson, associate clinical professor of Cornell Law School, the author of a blog read in the legal community. “Why in the world would you list yourself when it is such a tenuous and distant relationship?”

“Why would she have done it, and why would she have stopped when she was at Harvard?” Jacobson said. “The whole thing makes no sense.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/75903.html#ixzz1tuE0v01Y

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 08:16 AM
http://www.ncgenweb.us/cherokeereservation/

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 09:31 AM
http://www.ncgenweb.us/cherokeereservation/


Jaime...

I assume this was why you posted that link?


Tribal Enrollment Information--Eastern Band
To be eligible for enrollment with the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Indian, an applicant must:


be a direct lineal descendant of someone on the 1924 Baker roll

possess at least 1/16th degree Eastern Cherokee blood

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 09:44 AM
Concordia.. was also mentioning documentation required and The Baker Role listed as a requirement.I've been through this enough times, the system for proving ancestry is basically the same. The blood issue is not though. Folk lore may have some truth to it, but everyone here is always wanting facts only.I could say I'm a descendant of Charlemagne. because my granny told me and I believe it.

ccmanuals
05-04-2012, 09:50 AM
Bottom line. She does not hold any public office right now. She has not committed a crime. Finally, the good people of MA will make the determination if they want her representation in the US Congress.

Mrleft8
05-04-2012, 09:54 AM
I think that Roger Stouff might have an issue with people saying things about the chances of him being part native American because of his red hair and blue eyes......

wardd
05-04-2012, 10:01 AM
Except we're not talking about Brown here.

it's a election between the two, so let's compare the two

if she wasn't running this thread wouldn't exist

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 10:06 AM
Is he attempting to use her heritage to the advantage of the university?All that is asked is proof. Not folk lore, not granny said I am so it must be true. How many right here on the forum scream proof about something one posts. Where's the cite? No that cite is unacceptable blah, blah, blah.

wardd
05-04-2012, 10:06 AM
is this all there is against her?

i bet compared to most of us she is squeeky clean

wardd
05-04-2012, 10:09 AM
i was born just outside new orleans and i've heard i have indian ancesters

years ago i had long dark brown hair and was mistaken by real indians as one of them

and like most southerners i probably have a few black ancesters

so what you ask does this have to do with the thread, i'll have to get back to you on that

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 10:13 AM
i was born just outside new orleans and i've heard i have indian ancesters

years ago i had long dark brown hair and was mistaken by real indians as one of them

and like most southerners i probably have a few black ancesters

so what you ask does this have to do with the thread, i'll have to get back to you on that

So tell me this, how did 3 of the teaching institutions where she worked learn that she was Native American if she didn't tell them and if she did tell them, is the only basis fore this statement that an ancestor had "high cheekbones"? Does that make any sense at all?

wardd
05-04-2012, 10:15 AM
So tell me this, how did 3 of the teaching institutions where she worked learn that she was Native American if she didn't tell them and if she did tell them, is the only basis fore this statement that an ancestor had "high cheekbones"? Does that make any sense at all?

did she benefit because of it?

lying is not a crime by itself

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 10:16 AM
. She has not committed a crime.

Some legitimate Native Americans would disagree.



... identity theft is a crime. Ethnic identity theft is called fraud. Elizabeth Warren, Harvard professor of law, is still trying to manage public outcry over her abuse of American Indian identity. She clearly does not meet that basic legal standard of being American Indian, yet she has for years reaped professional advantages by her claim.


http://www.badeagle.com/

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 10:16 AM
It's all too clear that the inventers of an 18th century nearest ancester like those who pontificate about one of the Cherokee nations as if that were everything did not read Kevin Noble Maillard's piece at #135.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 10:17 AM
Made the point nicely. Your coloring makes you look like an Indian, but you don't think you are.. Warren has high cheekbones and she refers to herself as an NA..

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 10:22 AM
It's all too clear that the inventers of an 18th century nearest ancester like those who pontificate about one of the Cherokee nations as if that were everything did not read Kevin Noble Maillard's piece at #135.

Or maybe people read it but were not swayed by its premise. Maybe I am not up on all the posts on this thread, but have any of Ms. Warren's defenders been able to say how the last three universities she worked for became aware that she was native american and counted her as one of their diversity candidates? Moreover, wouldn't an attorney of Ms Warren's stature recognize the implication of this, correct any misunderstanding and insure that it did not continue with subsequent universities? It's hard to seriously consider that this is a big nothing until some of these questions are answered. I have tried to keep up on any posts since my last log-on, but if I missed this, I apologize in advance for having re-tilled the soil on this issue.

ccmanuals
05-04-2012, 10:24 AM
Ethnic identity theft is called fraud.

Would love to see some case law on this.

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 10:30 AM
It's all too clear that the inventers of an 18th century nearest ancester like those who pontificate about one of the Cherokee nations as if that were everything did not read Kevin Noble Maillard's piece at #135.

Sure did.

Except Maillard wrongly assumes the accuracy of Warren's claim. You don't "prove" anything with an 1894 family rumor of a circa 1750 Cherokee ancestor. All the legitimate heritage organizations, whether tribes, DAR, SAR, CAR, would laugh you out of the room if you showed up with that level of justification.

Further, in Post #114 it's becoming clear that she's throwing out BS so fast, she can't keep her own story straight, leading to even Dems in a Politico article questioning her veracity in Post #136.

wardd
05-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Made the point nicely. Your coloring makes you look like an Indian, but you don't think you are.. Warren has high cheekbones and she refers to herself as an NA..

i don't know if i qualify or not and it's never been something i gave much thought to

wardd
05-04-2012, 10:33 AM
from a genetics point of view the concept of race is meaningless

there is more genetic divergence among the peoples of africa than between peoples in the rest of the world because it is the wellspring from which all sprang

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 10:34 AM
Well, if you were seeking a minority slot at a prestigious law school in NE, you might have.And your last post is irrelevant.

wardd
05-04-2012, 10:38 AM
Well, if you were seeking a minority slot at a prestigious law school in NE, you might have.And your last post is irrelevant.

is that what happened?

did she get a slot because of it?

if that is what she did i would assume the right would be all for her as they are against set asides anyway

so one could argued she was behaving in rightwing rational way

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 10:38 AM
my mistake, not that it matters other than being a deflection. Wardd, even Ian stated that there was a great need to have the university increase the number of minorities represented at the universities..You figure it out. Read Ian's post. It's right there on this page. Don't have to search long..

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 10:43 AM
is that what happened?

did she get a slot because of it?

if that is what she did i would assume the right would be all for her as they are against set asides anyway

so one could argued she was behaving in rightwing rational way

She said she put her name in the legal directories to meet other people like her. What does that mean exactly...she was vague about her native american ancestry, and clearly did not know or maintain any of the cultural practices that might have been a part of this linage, so exactly what people was she trying to meet through the inappropriate listing in a a legal directory of her native american heritage? It doesn't make sense, and no one has made sense of it. Maybe she should just say that she did it because she thought it would help her, that it was a dumb thing to to and she wishes she had never done it - that would have put this behind her more quickly than the duck and cover method she is using now.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 10:50 AM
Have you ever heard of character wardd. If she is telling the truth fine. If she isn't and uses the possible myth to advance her own standings and the university does the same thing to improve it's standing, is she showing any character?

wardd
05-04-2012, 10:52 AM
She said she put her name in the legal directories to meet other people like her. What does that mean exactly...she was vague about her native american ancestry, and clearly did not know or maintain any of the cultural practices that might have been a part of this linage, so exactly what people was she trying to meet through the inappropriate listing in a a legal directory of her native american heritage? It doesn't make sense, and no one has made sense of it. Maybe she should just say that she did it because she thought it would help her, that it was a dumb thing to to and she wishes she had never done it - that would have put this behind her more quickly than the duck and cover method she is using now.

you've never done a dumb thing?

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 10:53 AM
I think attitudes on this hinge on whether the informal ethnic association that people's own identities may have, versus the 'official' ruling of NGOs about who is, and who is not, a legitimate member of an identified ethinc group, are of importance, or are the issue.

Let us suppose, for a moment, that some university was hiring professors, and were implementing some sort of affirmative action plan to give preferential hiring to some minority.... African Americans, for example. Would Obama qualify? He's only half-black. Presumably, the university would have rules about how it would recognize the legitimacy of the claim. They might not, for example, consider someone to be black whose ancestry were only 1/32nd black, or 1/64th black, etc......

Even the federal government has rules about this, when it comes to federal aid or benefits to native Americans... and those rules might, or might not, correspond to the recognition criteria of certain specific Native American tribes.

So, what are we talking about? How one identifies one's self, culturally? I believe I am a descendant of Ashkenazai Jews originating in Eastern Europe, but I haven't bothered to submit to any genetic testing, because I'm not claiming any particular benefit or set-aside because of it (of course, there are none :) )

Such is the case with Elizabeth Warren. She self-identifies as having some Cherokee blood, based on both family traditional understanding of their heritage, and there is at least some evidence that it's true. NOT evidence that would either qualify her for formal membership in a tribe.... and not evidence that would entitle her to any federal benefits as a Native American descendant.

But she wasn't looking for that!

Here's the important point: she DIDN'T try to use her understanding of her cultural heritage to any particular advantage. Harvard University confirms this; she wasn't hired as part of any affirmative action quota. Her cultural self-identification had no practical effect whatsoever, other than her pride in what she believed to be her heritage.

So, all the techincal chin music about whether she can prove that she's a descendant of Native Americans, whether the tribes would recognize her, etc., is utterly and completely irrelevant and stupid beyond all understanding.... just some political hate. If she were Iriash, and self-identified as an Irish American, nobody would pay the slightest bit of attention to ANY of this.


Perhaps in part, but she listed herself as Native American in the legal directories of the 3 institutions one of which boasted her minority status. The fact that the institution states that her native american status did not contribute to her hiring and promotion does not mean that she did not list it with that intent, merely that they did not consider it for promotion. Surely an attorney would understand better than you or me the inappropriateness of making such claims - we are not talking about an idle conversation at a cocktail party where someone offhandedly says that they have a great-great-great grandmother that is Native American. And I just don't buy the "I wanted to meet other people like me" statement - it just doesn't make sense given the context and information that is available.

wardd
05-04-2012, 10:53 AM
Have you ever heard of character wardd. If she is telling the truth fine. If she isn't and uses the possible myth to advance her own standings and the university does the same thing to improve it's standing, is she showing any character?

you mean like brown who voted against obama yet took advantage of obama care?

what warren may or may not have done was many years ago when she was young, brown did this recently

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 10:56 AM
you've never done a dumb thing?

I have quite a few times, but trying to defend them compounds the problem. She should just say it was dumb and she wished she hadn't done it. It won't make it completely go away, but it would certainly calm the storm faster than the present tactic.

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 10:56 AM
For those who still wonder, we know exactly where it came from. As a professor, Ms Warren listed herself in a general directory. She says she was looking for kindred spirits. We also know that she did not put any minority thingy on any application forms. And we know that it was HLS that dredged it all up to counter claims about their white male chauvenist bias. Why do white guys always do that? It's like "Some of my best friends are . . . " The bit with the directory was supposed to reach out to others with some Native American heritage but since the directory does not specify what minority, it seems that Ms Warren was off in LaLa land when she thought of that.

Point is, independent geneologists have confirmed the truth of what she'd previously said was family lore; and she never used "minority status" for any material gain in any event.

wardd
05-04-2012, 10:58 AM
I have quite a few times, but trying to defend them compounds the problem. She should just say it was dumb and she wished she hadn't done it. It won't make it completely go away, but it would certainly calm the storm faster than the present tactic.

nothing calms a right blowing storm and i doubt any of this will change many votes

well maybe jamies vote will change

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 11:01 AM
For those who still wonder, we know exactly where it came from. As a professor, Ms Warren listed herself in a general directory. She says she was looking for kindred spirits. We also know that she did not put any minority thingy on any application forms. And we know that it was HLS that dredged it all up to counter claims about their white male chauvenist bias. Why do white guys always do that? It's like "Some of my best friends are . . . " The bit with the directory was supposed to reach out to others with some Native American heritage but since the directory does not specify what minority, it seems that Ms Warren was off in LaLa land when she thought of that.

Point is, independent geneologists have confirmed the truth of what she'd previously said was family lore; and she never used "minority status" for any material gain in any event.


Actually, Ian it was in the legal directories that she entered it, and exactly what kindred spirits is she talking about - she is about as white-middle-class as you can get! She had NO understanding of her Tribal Practices and traditions and no direct contact with her "tribe". Can you site any source that confirms her burning desire to learn and reconnect with the heritage of a woman that died 4 generations ago? She is a bright woman - has she read up on the subject? Has she gone to tribal events? Has she attempted to trace and document her tribal linage? As far as I know the answer to all these questions is "none of the above"

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 11:01 AM
Concordia33 really needs to keep to facts. It's one legal directory used by all institutions. It was one institution, HLS, that responded to campus political pressure by claiming Warren as minority.

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 11:03 AM
Nobody knows what her 'intent' was, in listing herself that way... but it's pretty clear that a lot of people on the right side of the political dividing line are going to consider this to be some overwhelming evidence of unethical behavior and bad intent.

This is precisely where partisanship comes into play. She clearly violated no laws, took no undue advantage of any person or program, received no special consideration for any of this... but of you look at the tenor and tone of Bob Smallser's posts, you can see that what this whole thing REALLY is, is opportunism.... not on Elizabeth Warren's part, but on the part of the rabid elements of the right wing. It's fodder for faux outrage, and of virtually NO substance whatsoever.

But is seems pretty obvious that the intent was not to "meet other people like me". Can you site any evidence that she longed to connect up with her native american roots and that she had taken steps greater than listing herself as Native American in a legal directory to "connect up with others like me"?

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 11:05 AM
would you believe a direct quote Ian?
“Being Native American has been part of my story I guess since the day I was born,” Warren said, who has never mentioned her Native American heritage while she has been a Senate candidate
Umm so she hasn't mentioned it running for the senate, but this quote states she has.Sounds like spinning.

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 11:07 AM
Concordia33 really needs to keep to facts. It's one legal directory used by all institutions. It was one institution, HLS, that responded to campus political pressure by claiming Warren as minority.

So then, she has had herself listed as Native American in 3 institutions. Also Harvard used her as one of their Minority Faculty in their diversity statements. You have yet to answer my question about whether she has done more than list herself this way to "connect" with her long lost native american past. What exactly has she done besides list herself in a legal directory. You are splitting hairs when the best you can do is say that she listed it in one directory that was used by 3 institutions vs. 3 separate directories. This meant that she had numerous opportunities to correct this erroneous claim which she did not.

wardd
05-04-2012, 11:10 AM
So then, she has had herself listed as Native American in 3 institutions. Also Harvard used her as one of their Minority Faculty in their diversity statements. You have yet to answer my question about whether she has done more than list herself this way to "connect" with her long lost native american past. What exactly has she done besides list herself in a legal directory. You are splitting hairs when the best you can do is say that she listed it in one directory that was used by 3 institutions vs. 3 separate directories. This meant that she had numerous opportunities to correct this erroneous claim which she did not.

is brown going to change his vote on obama care since he put his adult child on his policy?

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 11:17 AM
MA has a different healthcare system.Pretty separate from obamacare with some similarities. MA instituted it's program a bit earlier than obama but you actually knew that right?
and Ian here is an interview for you to look at.
.http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57427355-503544/warren-explains-minority-listing-talks-of-grandfathers-high-cheekbones/

ccmanuals
05-04-2012, 11:24 AM
MA has a different healthcare system.Pretty separate from obamacare with some similarities. MA instituted it's program a bit earlier than obama but you actually knew that right?
and Ian here is an interview for you to look at.
.http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57427355-503544/warren-explains-minority-listing-talks-of-grandfathers-high-cheekbones/

But Brown uses FEHB. You knew that right?

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 11:27 AM
On WHAT basis do you say that the claim is 'erroneous'?

When asked by the press, should could not offer any direct information about her native american lineage (just some talk about her grandmother and high cheek bones)- it took a call from her campaign staff to a family historian to try to track it down and verify it, and even this information is not fully verified. That seems pretty erroneous to me.




er·ro·ne·ous

   [uh-roh-nee-uhs, e-roh-] Show IPA
adjective
1.containing error (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/error); mistaken; incorrect; wrong: an erroneousanswer.

2.straying from what is moral, decent, proper, etc.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 11:28 AM
But Brown uses FEHB. You knew that right?Is it obamacare?

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 11:34 AM
I listed the bloody requirements.Why don't you at least look at them When I asked a question yesterday, I was told to look it up in no uncertain terms..

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 11:47 AM
Hmmmm.... what 'standard' are you applying? Or are you inventing a 'standard' by yourself? She believes she's a descendant of a Native American, and there's at least some information to confirm that... not enough to admit her for membership in a tribe. You say that 'the information cannot be verified'.... but what would the basis be, of verification? What 'rules'?

But you seem to be suggesting that there's a standard of some sort, by which the claim can be described as 'erroneous'.....

What standard are you applying?

This is strikingly similar to the birther argument, by the way. They say he's not qualified for the Presidency, but they can't establish any 'standard' of proof (obviously, because they wouldn't accept any)

If she is as a cocktail party and someone says that they belong to a Native American Tribe, and she says I have Native American Blood too, I think that is fine, but to list yourself in a legal directory as Native American with nothing to support their claim is wrong particularly when you are a lawyer. You can dredge up the birther issue all you want but it doesn't apply here (and I never subscribed to it anyway). I would appreciate it if you could show me ANY evidence that her efforts to "connect up with others like me" extended beyond one listing in a legal directory. Did she attend any tribal events? Did she read any books? Did she ask a genealogist to track her linage and find her native American Ancestor? The reality is that she thought she had native american background but did not know, and knew even less about the culture. Which brings me back to the question of what else did she do to "connect with others like me"?

FYI the verification issue occurred when her own campaign team could not offer anything and they asked a genealogist who thinks he found the information but reports that some of the information is not verified - ask him what that means


Christopher Child of the New England Historic and Genealogy Society said Monday he found an 1894 document in which Warren's great-great-great grandmother is listed as Cherokee, which would make the Harvard Law School professor 1/32nd American Indian. Child says more research is needed.

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 11:58 AM
I ask again: what is the threshold here? If she had read a book on Cherokee history, would that be enough? Would she have to show evidence of actually meeting another native american descendant? Where do these 'rules' come from, that you seem to have invented? Other than your own bias?



But you can't give me evidence that she read even 1 book on Cherokee history. You are making the same mistake she made which is to try to talk your way out of it. It was bad judgement on her part she should just say so and move on with the campaigning. I'll accept even one book - can you cite one, or any other action that represented an effort to re-connect with her native american lineage?

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 12:03 PM
You're the guy who complained bitterly that I post too many 'trivial' issues... and here you are, spending post after post trying to argue that she wasn't a 'good-enough' native American to actually believe, and state, that she had native american ancestry.



You put "good enough" in quotes. Exactly who said that? I certainly did not, and don't appreciate you ascribing such a thing to me.

Glen Longino
05-04-2012, 12:05 PM
..."it would certainly calm the storm"....

What storm? The storm you and Smalser imagine?

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 12:10 PM
Sorry, but YOU don't get to set the standard for someone else's beliefs. She believed she was a descendant of Native Americans, and that's really all there is to this entire ridiculous story. You're welcome to believe that she's NOT a descendant of native americans, but then again, you don't have any proof of that, either.... should I be able to demand that YOU show evidence, too?

Crazy. Insane. Just truly trivial partisan pap.
The insanity is you saying that I am. You continue trying not to answer a simple question. What has she done to connect with her native american roots beyond listing herself in a legal directory?



Law school directories from the Association of American Law Schools from 1986 to 1995 put Warren on the association’s list of “minority law teachers” when she was teaching at the University of Texas and the University of Pennsylvania.


For 9 years she let herself be on a list of "minority law teachers". What else has she done to meet people like her. If you had an answer to that you would have provided it the last 3 times I asked, but you can't so you try to twist this into some weird discussion about the "standard for someone else's beliefs" - a controversy (or should I say 'nontroversy') that you create and then try to drop in my lap.

You proudly talk about how everything in the bilge including what you write is partisan and then you throw it at me as if is is some nasty retort? That isn't just being partisan that is being an ideologue.


Prominent Native Americans have called on Warren (http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/30/native-american-group-elizabeth-warren-better-be-able-to-defend-ancestry-claim/#ixzz1tp6LRy5h) to prove her ancestry claims.
“Once you put that down, you better be able to defend it,” Ray Ramirez of the Native American Rights Fund told The Daily Caller on Monday.




"We have a running joke in Cherokee country that when you meet someone who knows next to nothing about Indian country, but claims they're Indian, chances are they'll claim they're Cherokee," Krehbiel-Burton says

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 12:15 PM
Was she looking to get some specific advantage in a job. Norman read Ian's post # 135. You should accept what he wrote as it wasn't written by a righty. Be sure you read the entire post though. Don't ignore sections.Secondly you are so impressed by character. Yet when there are questions she has initiated about which may reflect on her character, it's okay.

wardd
05-04-2012, 12:30 PM
disgraceful

"http://i.huffpost.com/gen/594317/thumbs/s-SCOTT-BROWN-HALF-COURT-SHOT-large.jpg
Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) made a half-court shot during a stop at Hyannis Youth and Community Center In Hyannis, Massachusetts. His campaign posted a video of the shot without disclosing that Brown had missed four shots before finally making a basket.



While Scott Brown's recent half-court shot (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/28/scott-brown-half-court-shot_n_1461329.html)was impressive, it only came after four failed attempts at making a basket.An aide to the Massachusetts senatorrevealed to the Boston Globe (http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/05/03/brown-amazing-basket-came-after-four-missed-shots/WhcZn4jKRhuuTcJoTEUAnJ/story.html) that Brown actually made five attempts at a half-court shot while visiting (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/28/scott-brown-half-court-shot_n_1461329.html) the Hyannis Youth and Community Center in Hyannis, Massachusetts. The aide said Brown missed his first four tries.Brown's reelection committee posted avideo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVIAG7M8e5Q) of his successful attempt to YouTube, labeling the footage "Scott Brown's Amazing Half-Court Shot." They even distributed (http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/05/03/brown-amazing-basket-came-after-four-missed-shots/WhcZn4jKRhuuTcJoTEUAnJ/story.html)the video to Brown's supporters along with a message from Dave Cowens, a former Boston Celtics center and a member of the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.Brown is currently involved in a costly (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/01/scott-brown-elizabeth-warren_n_1469481.html) senate race with his chief Democratic rival, Elizabeth Warren. Campaign donations to Brown and Warren have topped $30 million, with more than six months to go before Election Day."

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 12:31 PM
Norman if you have proof and want to exploit it, fine' no problems. The point is, she only has stories.And ignoring my suggestion about Ian's post about having a job advantage. You are right to do so, don't want the boat rocked.figures.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 12:32 PM
Nice deflection.

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 12:38 PM
Wardd you've tried to throw the same red herring into this thread at least 2 times. Either start a new thread with this story, or stay on topic.

wardd
05-04-2012, 12:42 PM
Wardd you've tried to throw the same red herring into this thread at least 2 times. Either start a new post with this story, or stay on topic.

the topic is warren only because she is in a race for the senate with brown

as such it is only half the story of which is better suited for the seat

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 12:46 PM
And then there is this from a clearly partisan perspective.......





While the Democrat's team scrounged for evidence over the weekend, Warren stalled for time by asserting that she didn't need to provide documentation because family "lore" backed her up. Someone told her a story, you see, and magically conferred native status upon her. Through narrative, all things are possible! (Notorious "fake Indian" Ward Churchill is wondering why he didn't think of this alibi first before the University of Colorado at Boulder fired him for academic fraud.)On Tuesday, Warren finally discovered a great-great-great-grandmother supposedly "certified as Cherokee" and a random cousin somehow involved with a museum that preserves Native American art. There's also a great-great-grandfather somewhere in Warren's dusty genealogical records who spent time on a Cherokee reservation. Because walking a mile in someone else's moccasins is now just as good as being born in them.

Native American officials aren't buying Warren's 1/10,000th Cherokee claim. Suzan Shown Harjo, a former executive director of the National Congress of American Indians, told the Herald: "If you believe you are these things then that's fine and dandy, but that doesn't give you the right to claim yourself as Native American."
When Brown raised the issue, Warren and her progressive strategists traded in the candidate's Native American blanket for a War on Women victim's mask -- because asking a privileged Harvard prof to verify her minority claims is sexist, of course.







After a week of digging, helpful scholars at the New England Historic Genealogical Society say they have a hint that Warren’s great-great-great-grandmother may have been Cherokee. An electronic transcript of an 1894 marriage application back in Warren’s Oklahoma lists her ancestor as Cherokee. That would make Warren 1/32nd Native American. But the genealogists say the actual marriage certificate doesn’t list any Cherokee ancestry.

Noting that Warren suddenly dropped any claim to Native American ancestry as soon as she was hired at Harvard, Howie Carr of the Boston Herald concludes: “Once she’d reached the pinnacle of her trade, she ditched the fake-Indian routine. Maybe White Eyes Warren saw the smoke signals and figured out that someone was going to call her out on her ancestry. She was right.”







Warren, the Democratic Senate candidate challenging Scott Brown in Massachusetts, was the subject of a rather bizarre controversy this week when it was revealed she claimed Native American heritage as her career in academia proceeded, only to drop the dubious claim once she reached the pinnacle of her academic career track: Harvard Law faculty. She has not handled the controversy well, to say the least. And the wreckage of her campaign’s attempts at spinning this make you want to look away.

But don’t. Because Warren is playing an important role in our political discourse: she is the ghost of liberalism future. Warren’s alleged use of affirmative action, if true, would have to be the most egregious abuse of the system at the expense of minorities we’ve seen yet. Elizabeth Warren is, as a white woman, statistically speaking very much a member of this country’s majority. The only category in which she is a true minority is wealth: Elizabeth Warren is very, very rich.

But Warren was not done making a mockery of a system she seems to have exploited, and in so doing risked discrediting. To call her on these shenanigans, she explained, is sexist. Hot Air has caught her repeating (http://hotair.com/archives/2012/04/30/elizabeth-warren-camp-its-kind-of-sexist-for-scott-brown-to-ask-if-shes-lying-about-being-native-american/) this claim (http://hotair.com/archives/2012/05/02/elizabeth-warren-i-listed-myself-as-minority-in-order-to-make-friends-with-people-who-are-like-i-am/), making it a pillar of her defense. First, her campaign spokeswoman said this: “Once again, the qualifications and ability of a woman are being called into question by Scott Brown who did the same thing with the Supreme Court nomination of Elena Kagan. It’s outrageous.”

Then Warren waded into it herself, saying of Brown: “What does he think it takes for a woman to be qualified?”

The sad part about all this is that Warren is clearly intelligent and dedicated to her (redistributionist) cause. Back in August, Christopher Caldwell wrote a piece on her in the Weekly Standard in which he praised (http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/elizabeth-warren-closet-conservative_577308.html) her earlier writing as “brilliant and counterintuitive work.” Though many on the right object to Warren’s politics, no one thought she was ill-equipped intellectually for the important debate on economic policy now sweeping the public sphere.

Yet in the age of Obama, this is how campaigns are run. Warren may have interesting things to say, but she, too, has become something of a liberal cliché. Despite her obvious smarts, she has reflexively fallen back on charges of sexism, even when they are so ridiculous as to make you cringe. If Warren, a rich, white, Harvard professor, is a victim, everyone is.

Concordia 33
05-04-2012, 01:19 PM
read it for yourself

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1996/10/22/survey-diversity-lacking-at-hls-pa/



Survey: Diversity Lacking At HLS


By THERESA J. CHUNG (http://www.thecrimson.com/writer/117/Theresa_J._Chung/),
Published: Tuesday, October 22, 1996



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A majority of Harvard Law School students are unhappy with the level of representation of women and minorities on the Law School faculty, according to a recent survey.
The survey distributed last May by the Coalition for Civil Rights (CCR), reported that 83 percent of respondents believe the number of minority women on the Law School faculty is inadequate. More than half of students surveyed also expressed disappointment with the low representation of white women, minority men and openly gay, lesbian or bisexual faculty members at the Law School. "The results are not surprising. Most people have agreed there is a problem," said second-year student Robert H. Friedman, editor-in-chief of the Harvard Law Record. The survey drew nearly 450 responses, including a smattering from the faculty.

CCR is an organization of law students dedicated to "increasing the number of women and minorities on the faculty" and "promoting diversity," according to second-year student Rudy M. Reyes, co-chair of the organization. Law students said they want to learn from a variety of perspectives and approaches to the law.

"A black male from a lower socioeconomic background will approach the study of constitutional law in a different way from a white upper-class male," Reyes said.
Some students also supported curricular changes, citing the dearth of course offerings in feminist jurisprudence, gender discrimination and sexuality.

"Faculty diversity and curricular diversity go hand in hand," Reyes said. "The hiring committee loves to hire corporation and tax professors," who are predominantly "white males."
Kirkland and Ellis Professor of Law David B. Wilkins '77 called this statement an "oversimplification" but expressed his support for increased representation of minorities. "The fact that there never have been Asian Americans, Native Americans, gays, lesbians, Latinos, Latinas and women of color [on the faculty] is a subject of major concern," said Wilkins, who is black.

Of 71 current Law School professors and assistant professors, 11 are women, five are black, one is Native American and one is Hispanic, said Mike Chmura, spokesperson for the Law School.

Although the conventional wisdom among students and faculty is that the Law School faculty includes no minority women, Chmura said Professor of Law Elizabeth Warren is Native American. In response to criticism of the current administration, Chmura pointed to "good progress in recent years."

According to Chmura, of the 21 professors appointed since 1989, 10 were women or minorities. In addition, all three of last year's appointees were women.
The demands for women of color on the faculty may be satisfied if noted black legal scholar and University of Pennsylvania professor C. Lani Guinier '71 accepts her outstanding offer from the Law School, Friedman said.

But critics of hiring procedures have come from both ends of the political spectrum. "We have a major problem with ideological diversity," said secondyear law student Dan Schorr, president of the Harvard Law School Republicans. According to Schorr, the Law School has not hired an openly Republican professor in 20 years



I guess discrimination due to political beliefs IS OK and does not adversely effect one's desire for diversity.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 01:21 PM
better suited for the seat Exactly wardd, and character plays a part in her suitability. If she was not truthful about her heritage and if she exploited her heritage to possibly be hired, see post 135, and the university also exploited her heritage to boost the representation of minorities at the university, what is to say she doesn't do something similar in congress? I don't want that in congress. We have enough officials that exploit their positions already.

bobbys
05-04-2012, 01:31 PM
Sorry, but YOU don't get to set the standard for someone else's beliefs. She believed she was a descendant of Native Americans, and that's really all there is to this entire ridiculous story. You're welcome to believe that she's NOT a descendant of native americans, but then again, you don't have any proof of that, either.... should I be able to demand that YOU show evidence, too?

Crazy. Insane. Just truly trivial partisan pap.

The Standard is a Tribal card or her being on the rolls...

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 01:36 PM
The break in at the watergate was trivial as well. Want to know what happened afterwards?

wardd
05-04-2012, 02:07 PM
better suited for the seat Exactly wardd, and character plays a part in her suitability. If she was not truthful about her heritage and if she exploited her heritage to possibly be hired, see post 135, and the university also exploited her heritage to boost the representation of minorities at the university, what is to say she doesn't do something similar in congress? I don't want that in congress. We have enough officials that exploit their positions already.
and his hypocracy about obama care?

i don't want that in congress

bobbys
05-04-2012, 02:46 PM
Your question can't be answered because it is irrational. Why does she have to demonstrate that she 'connected' with her native american roots? Is there some rule or law that says that she has to?



And you have continued to fail to explain why she was under any obligation to 'connect' to her roots. I have Ashkenazi Jewish roots.... but I'm an agnostic, and don't practice the cultural traditions of my heritage. Does this mean that I can't claim to have Ashkenazi Jewish roots?

Your argument amounts to the same damn thing..

My Great grandfather was named Klien and strong rumor was he was Jewish.

However No Jew would consider me Jewish, The Germans would not have taken me away for that and I have no right of return to Israel..

So defending her is what is Irrational and your argument also..

Your Name and Family name is Bernstein, You went to Synagogue as your parents and theirs.

EW is not named CHER or Pocahontas nor has ever even visited the Tribe.

Fact is she used this and now cannot back it up and is Embarrassing the Party., Her campaign should have checked this first, Come on how basic is that? Now you want to blame others for their own mistakes?

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 02:52 PM
Small aside - as I mentioned in another thread, I don't consider Sen Brown utilizing a benefit of ObamaCare while claiming to work for its repeal as hypocrasy any more than it's hypocrasy for a person of wealth to pay the correct tax as determined by our byzantine tax code while arguing that the code should be simplified in a way that puts more tax on the wealthy. You play by the rules while you try to change them. Mostly.

The issue of this thread is Ms Warren's having a Cherokee great grandmother and her not having used that to claim minority status for the purpose of college or law school admissions or to gain any of the professorships she held.

wardd
05-04-2012, 02:58 PM
Small aside - as I mentioned in another thread, I don't consider Sen Brown utilizing a benefit of ObamaCare while claiming to work for its repeal as hypocrasy any more than it's hypocrasy for a person of wealth to pay the correct tax as determined by our byzantine tax code while arguing that the code should be simplified in a way that puts more tax on the wealthy. You play by the rules while you try to change them. Mostly.

The issue of this thread is Ms Warren's having a Cherokee great grandmother and her not having used that to claim minority status for the purpose of college or law school admissions or to gain any of the professorships she held.

you don't understand, had she wanted to she could have, that is what has them all riled up and the fact that she didn't has them all riled up too

dammit, dems are supposed to play by the rep script

it's like when the right says obama is weak on national security and he goes and does something really really cleaver, gosh darn it that's cheating

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 02:59 PM
bobbys being jewish has nothin to do with dad, grandad, or ggrandad. It's mom, grandmom, or ggrandmom who passes down the right to be called or referred to as being jewish..I may have Jewish blood through through a Jewish father I suppose, if he was Jewish.If if he wasn't jewish, but the offspring has a Jewish mother voila.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 03:00 PM
and his hypocracy about obama care?

i don't want that in congressas usual, deflection.

wardd
05-04-2012, 03:02 PM
as usual, deflection.

as i said this thread wouldn't exist if she wasn't running against brown

do pay attention

ccmanuals
05-04-2012, 03:08 PM
You mean this guy? :d

http://bostonist.com/attachments/rickbang/scott-brown.JPG

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 03:19 PM
as i said this thread wouldn't exist if she wasn't running against brown

do pay attentionBut She IS running so, the thread exists wardd.Deal with it. If Brown had a sim issue about his heritage, would you not post about it? seriously if there was an issue about Brown, you'd be on it. Afterall, he only is mentioned because he's running against warren. as she is running, it's fair game.

ccmanuals
05-04-2012, 03:21 PM
Wardd, don't bother.

bobbys
05-04-2012, 03:23 PM
Small aside - as I mentioned in another thread, I don't consider Sen Brown utilizing a benefit of ObamaCare while claiming to work for its repeal as hypocrasy any more than it's hypocrasy for a person of wealth to pay the correct tax as determined by our byzantine tax code while arguing that the code should be simplified in a way that puts more tax on the wealthy. You play by the rules while you try to change them. Mostly.

The issue of this thread is Ms Warren's having a Cherokee great grandmother and her not having used that to claim minority status for the purpose of college or law school admissions or to gain any of the professorships she held..

In post 2 you also said Great grandmother as you do now.

However it was said a few times its great great great grandmother and even shown here.

Elizabeth Warren is under fire for reports she claimed status as a minority lawyer based on a far-back blood connection to the Cherokee line.The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/Boston/politicalintelligence/2012/04/brown-and-warren-campaigns-trade-jabs-over-whether-she-claimed-native-american-status-further-her-legal-career/YIJoy3TQSNCmesneEhHqHK/index.html) reported that the Democratic candidate challenger to Scott Brown in the Senate race in Massachusetts self-identified as a minority from 1986 to 1995, though she has no recent Native American family.Genealogist at the New England Historic Genealogical Society Chris Child set out to hunt down Warren’s ancestry last Thursday. In less than a week, he discovered documents citing an 1894 marriage record that lists Warren’s great-great-great grandmother, O. C. Sarah Smith as Cherokee, meaning that Warren is 1/32nd .

There are 3 greats yet you twice only wrote one.?

Now you could have missed it but having read your writings its a bit of a stretch to think you did..

Why is this Ian?

wardd
05-04-2012, 03:26 PM
But She IS running so, the thread exists wardd.Deal with it. If Brown had a sim issue about his heritage, would you not post about it? seriously if there was an issue about Brown, you'd be on it. Afterall, he only is mentioned because he's running against warren. as she is running, it's fair game.

it's not about ethnicity, it's about character

bobbys
05-04-2012, 03:28 PM
and his hypocracy about obama care?

i don't want that in congress.

Obama care?

Norm does not like it when people go off topic.

Or at least on his threads.

By the way im to the right of Rush but even i Capitalize Obama

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 03:29 PM
exactly.. If this heritage issue is false, she is not demonstrating much character. Exactly what I said on several posts a long while back on this thread. Keep up...

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 03:37 PM
Exactly.. If this heritage thing that she has used to her benefit, apparently, proves to be false, it says a lot about character doesn't it?

wardd
05-04-2012, 03:39 PM
exactly.. If this heritage issue is false, she is not demonstrating much character. Exactly what I said on several posts a long while back on this thread. Keep up...

unexactly

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 03:41 PM
Her "allies" are bailing out on Warren like fleas off a corpse.

http://bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1061129153




Some national political experts had much stronger words for Warren’s conflicting explanations about why she listed herself as a minority in university directories.

“This takes her biography into a bizarre dimension,” said Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics. “It has derailed the effort to define Warren in a voter-friendly way.”

Sabato also said that Warren’s claim that she didn’t list herself as a minority to gain an employment advantage is not believable.

“This is what happens when candidates don’t tell the truth,” he said. “It’s pretty obvious she was using (the minority listing) for career advancement.”






Elizabeth Warren’s stumbling efforts to douse the firestorm surrounding her claims of being a Native American minority have raised concerns among local and national Democrats who are questioning her campaign’s competence.

“There’s nobody watching this that doesn’t think she’s in big trouble,” one well-known Massachusetts Democrat said.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 03:44 PM
Her "allies" are bailing out on Warren like fleas off a corpse.

http://bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1061129153Yup and wardd is busy walking the decks of the Titanic. Still figures it's going to stay floating.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 03:48 PM
Wardd, don't bother.Yup, lose gracefully.

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 03:51 PM
Yup and wardd is busy walking the decks of the Titanic. Still figures it's going to stay floating.

The classic Dem epitaph:

"She died at age 63, but with a little help from her friends, continued voting Democratic until age 89."

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 03:51 PM
"Why is this Ian?" [#214]

Because I was wrong.

It's mathematically obvious that 1/32nd means three greats to get back to "pure blood". I was noting how Ms Warren learned from her grandparents how they claimed Native American ancestry (grandmother would have been 1/8th) and conflated the two. Which was an easy mistake for me to make since Warren's Native American ancestor dates from the 1890s and my own grandmother married in 1895 and came to Oklahoma in 1901.

Native American blood's far from rare in Oklahoma. One of my aunts (married to Dad's oldest brother before Dad was born) was full Cherokee but she and the family hid it. Dad didn't know, her children didn't know, until about twenty years ago.

So I apologize for mis-stating the number of greats.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 03:53 PM
unexactlyWhat kind of dictionary are you using?

ccmanuals
05-04-2012, 03:54 PM
Bob, I sense from your posts you may have become an angry old solider. That's no way to enjoy your retirement. :)

bobbys
05-04-2012, 03:56 PM
"Why is this Ian?" [#214]

Because I was wrong.

It's mathematically obvious that 1/32nd means three greats to get back to "pure blood". I was noting how Ms Warren learned from her grandparents how they claimed Native American ancestry (grandmother would have been 1/8th) and conflated the two. Which was an easy mistake for me to make since Warren's Native American ancestor dates from the 1890s and my own grandmother married in 1895 and came to Oklahoma in 1901.

Native American blood's far from rare in Oklahoma. One of my aunts (married to Dad's oldest brother before Dad was born) was full Cherokee but she and the family hid it. Dad didn't know, her children didn't know, until about twenty years ago.

So I apologize for mis-stating the number of greats..

Thank you Ian .

I could learn from you about admitting when im wrong sept im so dang stubborn!

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 03:58 PM
I can't speak for bob. However so many here are always harping on the facts from the libs, he has given facts, many of them, and basically no lib will accept them. Blatant hypocrisy on the lib side..

wardd
05-04-2012, 04:00 PM
I can't speak for bob. However so many here are always harping on the facts from the libs, he has given facts, many of them, and basically no lib will accept them. Blatant hypocrisy on the lib side..

it seems facts have nothing to do with elections

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 04:04 PM
Facts like no college or law school applications that claim minority status?

Or do you mean the fact that no employment application claimed minority status?

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 04:06 PM
From the libs, you are right. regarding this issue,facts are irrelevent to you. About the election itself which hasn't taken place, it goes by the number of votes. The numbers are fact as long as the votes are correctly counted. Otherwise, you are making no sense.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 04:16 PM
Facts like no college or law school applications that claim minority status?

Or do you mean the fact that no employment application claimed minority status?Ian there is nothing available that states on her applications whether she wrote NAmerican ethnicity or not.If she releases them, maybe.AS is, where it appears to have counted she did.

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 04:17 PM
Bob, I sense from your posts you may have become an angry old solider. That's no way to enjoy your retirement. :)

Not at all. I enjoy the hell out of pulling your chains.

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 04:44 PM
The right is saying - more of them here as in print being blatantly false is bad but making others believe what's false without actually saying it is good - that she used a claim of minority status for college and law school admissions and for obtaining her various professorships. This of course has temporality problems since the law professor directory where she did claim that she has Native American ancestry came out after she had completed college, law school and the first of her professorships.

But what's time matter?

Were all these righties to double check EO and AA laws and regulations they would already know that having Native American ancestry is not counted as a racial minority in the same way as being black or asian or hispanic. Membership in a federally recognized tribe does count, even though many tribal members have less "tribal blood" than Ms Warren's 1/32. Ms Warren is not a member of any recognized tribe.

I find it charming that our righties are making a great, great, great many mistakes here.

S.V. Airlie
05-04-2012, 05:02 PM
The traditional definition of race and ethnicity is related to biological and sociological factors respectively. Racerefers to a person's physical appearance, such as skin color, eye color, hair (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Fur_vs_Hair) color, bone (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Special:Information/Bone)/jaw structure etc.Ethnicity, on the other hand, relates to cultural factors such as nationality, culture, ancestry, language and beliefs. umm. I just can't figure out the spin Ian. She is using physical characteristics to prove her ethnicity. The way or what she uses to explain her ancestry seems to be composed of race and ethnicity. regarding minority status, she is a minority.
regarding the first paragraph, I disagree that this is what the righties actually think. About admissions applications, unless you have copies, I don't know what she put in the ethnicity square. I never came out saying anything more or less about them.

SamSam
05-04-2012, 06:11 PM
Ian there is nothing available that states on her applications whether she wrote NAmerican ethnicity or not.If she releases them, maybe.AS is, where it appears to have counted she did.:confused:

wardd
05-04-2012, 06:43 PM
:confused:

yes he is

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 07:11 PM
Time, Jamie, time. She was out of law school and a prof before the first time she put down the Native American minority bit in the 1985 American Law Schools desk book, which is a directory of profs in american law schools. She stopped bothering to list in 1995. A year later is when, in response to a critical article in the Harvard Crimson, the Harvard Law School touted her as their official minority due to being Native American, which was pointless since that category does not fill any federal category and they could not make that claim on their filings with EEOC (if they have any, that I don't know).

Even the Boston Herald, and every news (not opinion) article you can find, does not claim that Ms Warren "used" minority status for her gain. The charge is that she let HLS use her for their propaganda (but not material) gain.

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 07:20 PM
Time, Jamie, time. She was out of law school and a prof before the first time she put down the Native American minority bit in the 1985 American Law Schools desk book, which is a directory of profs in american law schools. She stopped bothering to list in 1995. A year later is when, in response to a critical article in the Harvard Crimson, the Harvard Law School touted her as their official minority due to being Native American, which was pointless since that category does not fill any federal category and they could not make that claim on their filings with EEOC (if they have any, that I don't know).

Even the Boston Herald, and every news (not opinion) article you can find, does not claim that Ms Warren "used" minority status for her gain. The charge is that she let HLS use her for their propaganda (but not material) gain.

Except all your backpedaling technicalities don't matter. She checked the box that she was a minority when she was clearly not. And kept doing so for over 10 years. No sane, mature, responsible adult uses family rumors as professional credentials without checking them out first, which only happened last week. Mysteriously she stopped allowing these false claims when she reached the pinnacle of her career.

This is real simple. She was claiming and/or allowing other people to claim she was something she was not. Which places her at zero on the integrity scale. And this makes me wonder about yours.

wardd
05-04-2012, 07:26 PM
Except your backpedaling technicalities don't matter. She checked the box that she was a minority when she was clearly not. And kept doing so for over 10 years. No sane, mature adult with an integrity bone uses family rumors as professional credentials without checking them out first, which only happened last week. Mysteriously she stopped allowing these false claims when she reached the pinnacle of her career.

This is real simple. She was claiming and/or allowing other people to claim she was something she was not. Which places her at zero on the integrity scale. And makes me wonder about yours.

are you incensed about rubio's embellishment of his family fleeing castro's cuba?

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 07:34 PM
Yes Bob, at last we agree. She is 1/32 Native American and thought on that basis that she could check the minority box on an unofficial national listing of law professors. I happen to agree that her Native American ancestry does not qualify her as a "minority" in the legal sense of the term. While the directory is not a legal document and she could not use it to her direct benefit, we've seen how a year after she stopped bothering with it HLS did use it in an extra-legal controversy. She really should not have listed. I would not have. While I don't think much of it, I can see folk enjoying a gotcha moment.

Ian McColgin
05-04-2012, 07:37 PM
Actually, I'm not all that reved about Rubio either. Stuff that frosts me is stuff like Sen Blumenthal saying he was a Vietnam veteran rather than the truthful Vietnam-era veteran.

wardd
05-04-2012, 07:43 PM
Sen. Marco Rubio, a Tea Party favorite frequently mentioned as a possible GOP vice presidential pick, is pushing back on a story in The Washington Post that says he embellished the facts about his family's departure from Cuba.



Rubio issued the following statement about the Post story, which the Florida Republican says contains false allegations:




"To suggest my family's story is embellished for political gain is outrageous. The dates I have given regarding my family's history have always been based on my parents' recollections of events that occurred over 55 years ago and which were relayed to me by them more than two decades after they happened. I was not made aware of the exact dates until very recently."




The Washington Post story, posted online Thursday afternoon, said Rubio "frequently repeated" that his family fled Cuba after Fidel Castro took power in 1959.




The newspaper reviewed documents, including the naturalization papers of Rubio's parents, showing that the Rubio family arrived in the United States in May 1956 -- well before Castro overthrew the Cuban government and declared the island a socialist state in 1961. Castro was Cuba's president until 2008, when he ceded power to his brother.

...

wardd
05-04-2012, 07:43 PM
Actually, I'm not all that reved about Rubio either. Stuff that frosts me is stuff like Sen Blumenthal saying he was a Vietnam veteran rather than the truthful Vietnam-era veteran.

but we need to keep equal standards

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 07:47 PM
are you incensed about rubio's embellishment of his family fleeing castro's cuba?

This spose to be some sort of juvenile "gotcha" to flush out the "far-right birther"?

I don't favor Rubio for a number of reasons, self-serving embellishments being only one.

You guys can spare me the birther crap. Another baseless smear from those who don't have an argument.

wardd
05-04-2012, 07:50 PM
This spose to be some sort of juvenile "gotcha" to flush out the "far-right birther"?

I don't favor Rubio for a number of reasons, self-serving embellishments being only one.

You guys can spare me the birther crap. Another baseless smear from those who don't have an argument.

my argument is is this all you got out of a lifetime of her work?

so she may not be perfect but this hardly rises to high crimes and misdemeanors

Bob Smalser
05-04-2012, 08:09 PM
so she may not be perfect but this hardly rises to high crimes and misdemeanors

I dunno where you been all your life, but if you don't have personal integrity, you don't have anything.

And Warren is NOT 1/32 Cherokee! Not without verification. A hasty search over the weekend only found an 1894 rumor that a circa 1750 ancestor was some manner of Cherokee.

Like Rubio also failed to do, Warren shoulda checked this information for accuracy before using it. It's easy enough to do. That's how professional genealogists make their living.

wardd
05-04-2012, 08:13 PM
I dunno where you been all your life, but if you don't have personal integrity, you don't have anything.

And Warren is NOT 1/32 Cherokee! Not without verification. A hasty search over the weekend only found an 1894 rumor that a circa 1750 ancestor was some manner of Cherokee.

Like Rubio also failed to do, Warren shoulda checked this information for accuracy before using it. It's easy enough to do. That's how professional genealogists make their living.

so for what other reasons don't you like her?

purri
05-04-2012, 10:33 PM
Around here you have to be accepted by and have "made peace" with your language group by good works irrespective of some half baked whitefella regulations. It works.

Glen Longino
05-04-2012, 11:25 PM
:confused:

:D:D:D
Ain't he a complex hombre?:DLMAO

bobbys
05-05-2012, 02:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxoWto09Oyg

Glen Longino
05-05-2012, 02:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxoWto09Oyg

Cher is mine!
Keep yer cotton pickin hands off...okay?

purri
05-05-2012, 02:30 AM
I prefer Buffie St Marie and neighbours, Dunno abt Ms Sarkissian wearing men's stuff but around here it would be dealt with.

Bob Smalser
05-05-2012, 09:59 AM
George Zimmerman, the son of a Peruvian mestiza, is the embodiment of endemic white racism and the reincarnation of Bull Connor, but Elizabeth Warren, the great-great-great-granddaughter of someone who might possibly have been listed as Cherokee on an application for a marriage license, is a heartwarming testimony to how minorities are shattering the glass ceiling in Harvard Yard. George Zimmerman, redneck; Elizabeth Warren, redskin. Under the Third Reich’s Nuremberg Laws, Ms. Warren would have been classified as Aryan and Mr. Zimmerman as non-Aryan. Now it’s the other way round.

Progress!



Hilarious.

Concordia 33
05-07-2012, 08:14 AM
Yes Bob, at last we agree. She is 1/32 Native American and thought on that basis that she could check the minority box on an unofficial national listing of law professors. I happen to agree that her Native American ancestry does not qualify her as a "minority" in the legal sense of the term. While the directory is not a legal document and she could not use it to her direct benefit, we've seen how a year after she stopped bothering with it HLS did use it in an extra-legal controversy. She really should not have listed. I would not have. While I don't think much of it, I can see folk enjoying a gotcha moment.

Ian...
I am not looking for a gotcha moment and do not see it as an moment to enjoy or to wring my hands. I see it more as a parity issue as there are numerous threads in the bilge where every word said by a conservative or said at the expense of a conservative are amplified while the converse is often ridiculed. I appreciate your words here, and if Warren or her campaign spokesman had said similar I think the whole thing would have been put to rest pretty quickly.

wardd
05-07-2012, 09:56 AM
Ian...
I am not looking for a gotcha moment and do not see it as an moment to enjoy or to wring my hands. I see it more as a parity issue as there are numerous threads in the bilge where every word said by a conservative or said at the expense of a conservative are amplified while the converse is often ridiculed. I appreciate your words here, and if Warren or her campaign spokesman had said similar I think the whole thing would have been put to rest pretty quickly.

no it wouldn't, the right will drive this for all the mileage they can

Ian McColgin
05-07-2012, 10:02 AM
Brown's campaign manager is calling for an investigation.

SamSam
05-07-2012, 10:07 AM
George Zimmerman, the son of a Peruvian mestiza, is the embodiment of endemic white racism and the reincarnation of Bull Connor, but Elizabeth Warren, the great-great-great-granddaughter of someone who might possibly have been listed as Cherokee on an application for a marriage license, is a heartwarming testimony to how minorities are shattering the glass ceiling in Harvard Yard. George Zimmerman, redneck; Elizabeth Warren, redskin. Under the Third Reich’s Nuremberg Laws, Ms. Warren would have been classified as Aryan and Mr. Zimmerman as non-Aryan. Now it’s the other way round.

Progress!So... things were better during the Third Reich?

Ian McColgin
05-07-2012, 10:39 AM
I love it when righties pontificate about race. They get it so wrong. Zimmerman's mother according to all news sources that actually track her heritage, is of entirely European descent. She is not a "mestiza". In the common use and common misspelling here, Zimmerman, who calls himself "hispanic" could still not be called a mezito because his "racial" heritage is all European, so far as is known no Inca or other Native Andean blood.

Within what's gotten to be a generalized "hispanic" designation there's a huge spread of ethnicities and blood lines, and an equally huge spread of socioeconomic statuses and issues. In Peru, for example, people of African descent report some very serious discrimination inflicted on them by those of European descent. The claim that a person is not, cannot be racist because he or she is "hispanic" is even more obviously false than the claim that a black cannot be racist.

What is clear is that Zimmerman, like Ms Warren, has not experienced being the butt of racial discrimination. Ms Warren wanted to get more contact with others who shared some Native American heritage. Zimmerman wants to use a newly minted "minority" claim to excuse at least part of his killing a black kid.

S.V. Airlie
05-07-2012, 10:49 AM
Well, I don't keep track. I'd like to see what you cite about his family for curiosity's sake and for no other reason.Regarding your last statement, I'd call it bunk in reference to Ms Warren, but likely true with Zimmerman.

Ian McColgin
05-07-2012, 10:53 AM
To find out about Zimmerman's mother, google stuff like 'Zimmerman's mother', 'Zimmerman's peruvian mother', etc. Then weed out all the blogs and blurbs that are devoid of any actual contact with her. Or, don't bother and just look at his cheekbones. HehHehHeh.

Y Bar Ranch
05-07-2012, 10:54 AM
I would just like to say that I have as much or more Cherokee in me than Ms Warren does (my Mom grew up in Tennessee Appalachia), and I am trying to figure out how to parlay it into opening a casino in my basement.

S.V. Airlie
05-07-2012, 10:58 AM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00788/russia-georgia-gori_788782c.jpg

Ian McColgin
05-07-2012, 11:00 AM
You could do what Ms Warren has not done - apply for membership in one of the Nations. Our Mashpee-Wamponoags found the right politically connected corrupt lobbiests to grease the way to tribal status and they might give you a referral . . .

S.V. Airlie
05-07-2012, 11:01 AM
Guess where this person come from? Peru? No. Cherokee? No.High cheek bones?ummmm.

Ian McColgin
05-07-2012, 11:07 AM
The children of Reuben, Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Ephraim, Simon, and Manasseh sure got around, spreading those cheekbones. . . .

S.V. Airlie
05-07-2012, 11:08 AM
Close enough. Could Ms Warren have inherited them?Ian... I read about Zimmerman's heritage. A lot of blogs but some quotes from Reuters. If you believe Reuters.

Y Bar Ranch
05-07-2012, 11:11 AM
Mashpee-Wamponoags
I wouldn't wear their scalps on my wampum belt.

ccmanuals
05-07-2012, 12:05 PM
Close enough. Could Ms Warren have inherited them?Ian... I read about Zimmerman's heritage. A lot of blogs but some quotes from Reuters. If you believe Reuters.

you believe blogs over reuters?

Ian McColgin
05-07-2012, 12:09 PM
Reuters corrects reporting errors. So many blogs are like Palin explaining that Paul Revere really was warning the British.

ccmanuals
05-07-2012, 12:38 PM
I recently heard a pundit refer to Palin as that guy who graduated from High School 6 years ago but is still hanging around the HS parking lot trying to convince the students how cool his ride is. :)