How much resin/hardener for a 14ft canoe??

[kmerr98277]

How much resin/hardener for a 14ft canoe??

[Bram V]

This depends a lot on the design and buiding method. so:

What design?
What building method?
Will you glass it?
Will you coat it in epoxy to waterproof it?

Not that I am the barrel of wisdom you wish to tap from, but those probably will ask the same questions.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Is this a joke?
STRIPPER? WOOD-CANVAS? STITCH & GLUE? SKIN-ON-FRAME?
WHATSTHENAMEOFTHEDESIGN?
ETC.,ETC.
Get the picture?

[kmerr98277]

Ok Chuck, you must have something better to do than create drama on wooden boat forums. Bram V, it is a 14 ft. cedar strip canoe I will be glassing with west 105/207 and 6oz cloth. Just want to make sure I have enough. I am following gilpatricks book which recommends a couple of coats. Thanks.

[Bram V]

I have very little knowledge of strip planking, but I think somewhat less than 1 litre per coat of resin+hardener should do, some 0.7 to 0.8 would be my guess, with the glass drinking as much as its weight. Someone more knowledgable will undoubtedly correct me. Do you glue the strips together with it as well (I heard this should not be necceary)?

[Art Reinhert]

The last one I built that size took about 1 and 1/3 gallons, one coat inside and 2 outside and 4oz. cloth. Don't be too concerned about having some left, once you have expoxy on hand you will continually find uses for it. Fixing a loose hammer head and repairing a crack in a gas tank are two things I've used it for just this week.

[David G]

kmerr,

Here's a link to the West System site - where you can look up coverage info for yourself... and have it for next time! I'd suggest downloading the User's Manual - which is THE bible for epoxy use and has been for decades.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/

And, no... Chuck is not simply creating drama. We often get questions here where the devil is in the details. We often get questions here that amount to, 'how long is a piece of string?'. So... asking for more information is perfectly understandable and legitimate. Your reply to him was less than polite for someone who comes seeking advice.

G'luck.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Ok Chuck, you must have something better to do than create drama on wooden boat forums. Bram V, it is a 14 ft. cedar strip canoe I will be glassing with west 105/207 and 6oz cloth. Just want to make sure I have enough. I am following gilpatricks book which recommends a couple of coats. Thanks.

The advice here is free and therefore it is necessary for all concerned to do their part to arrive at a happy conclusion.

The problem is very few builders can glass a hull with the minimum of epoxy. If you are a first-timer you may mix too much and have some kick off in the cup. If you follow the technique of a pro like Ted Moores you get excellent results but there is a lot of waste. The first coating is carefully squeegied off to keep the glass against the wood. On the inside it is acceptible to do a minimum lamination,(6 oz. of epoxy for each sq. yard of 6 oz. glass) that leaves the weave showing. This is perfectly acceptible in terms of strength but some builders think the exposed weave catches too much dirt so they fill it which requires about twice as much resin . On the outside you have to fill to smooth the hull. If you build up additional layers to bury the glass well you'll have something to sand without cutting into the glass.
So you see there is more to a successful outcome than what Gilpatrick lays out in his book. He has a bare bones approach.
I'll guess that you'll need at least three gallons.

[Canoez]

The advice here is free and therefore it is necessary for all concerned to do their part to arrive at a happy conclusion.

The problem is very few builders can glass a hull with the minimum of epoxy. If you are a first-timer you may mix too much and have some kick off in the cup. If you follow the technique of a pro like Ted Moores you get excellent results but there is a lot of waste. The first coating is carefully squeegied off to keep the glass against the wood. On the inside it is acceptible to do a minimum lamination,(6 oz. of epoxy for each sq. yard of 6 oz. glass) that leaves the weave showing. This is perfectly acceptible in terms of strength but some builders think the exposed weave catches too much dirt so they fill it which requires about twice as much resin . On the outside you have to fill to smooth the hull. If you build up additional layers to bury the glass well you'll have something to sand without cutting into the glass.
So you see there is more to a successful outcome than what Gilpatrick lays out in his book. He has a bare bones approach.
I'll guess that you'll need at least three gallons.

Three gallons seems kinda large. We usually get away with 1-1/2 gallons or so when building boats about that size, but we use 4 oz cloth that doesn't use as much resin to wet out. David's link to the West System site is a good place to find good formulas to estimate usage.

Was 6 oz cloth specified by the designer? I know Gilpatrick tends to err on the "heavy side" because of his guiding experience. Which design of his are you building? His boats tend to have pretty wide flat bottoms, so perhaps 6 oz is desirable.

[JimConlin]

I've worked up from square feet, glass weight, etc and gotten to about a gallon.
I've also worked back from the 55 lb. weight of my 15' canoe and the weight of the strips, rails and seats and gotten to about the same place.
What neither of these counts is the epoxy that ends up on the floor or gets sanded off.

What Canoez said. With care, it won't be much over a gallon.

[Brian Palmer]

Has any one ever calculated how much weight you could save by using filled resin (with microballoons) to fill the weave on the outside of a canoe (e.g., 16 ft), and going with a painted finish, insted of using straight resin and varnish?

Just curious,

Brian

[captsct]

When I did my ceder strip yak, I used the better part of 2 gal. I made up kevlar/glass hatch rims, cockpit skirt rim, and rudder with that too.

[Todd Bradshaw]

My guess with six ounce would be to buy around two gallons.
Brian, you could save both weight and resin with a microballoon fill mix - but you would lose a great deal of abrasion resistance in the process. In other words, that sucker would scratch all the way down to the fibers any time you got near a rock.

[Bert Langley]

For a first time builder and possibly a first time epoxy builder I would err on the side of getting too much instead of not enough. You do not need to worry of trying to eek out every little bit of epoxy while also learning how to apply it etc. As others said once you have it around you will find a lot of other uses for it. For boats in the 14-16 ft range I like to start with a 3 gallon kit. Two of resin and one of hardener. Never used that much and frankly I think you will only need less than 2 gallons, but knowing you have plenty will take one more worry out of the build. On the othe rhand if you are experienced at building using epoxy I suspect you can get away with 1.5 gallons.

[mcdenny]

My $0.02 for a new epoxy user: You will occasionally mix more than you can spread in the open time and find it starting to gell in the cup and be consumed with a desire to get that expensive goop spread out fast so you don't have to throw it away. Big mistake. You could spend an hour sanding out the bumps a dollar's worth of 'too far gone' epoxy can make.

Just like the sail reefing rule that says you should take a reef as soon as you think about it; you should discard the epoxy as soon as you think it is starting to gell.

[Phil Westendorf]

How much resin/hardener for a 14ft canoe??

16 ft. Peterborough Stripper, 6 oz.cloth outide took four coats w/second layer of cloth (football shape) took four coats and single layer of same on inside with two coats. Whole thing took just under 2 gallons of 105 and appropriate 207 hardner. Applied epoxy per West System recommended procedure.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/

phil w.

[Phil Y]

depends-some are a 1:1 ix, some 4:1. just follow the instructions. ha ha:)