Raised panel bulkheads..anyone done them??

[Larks]

I'd like to try and come up with a reasonably simple raised panel design for the few panels that I'll have in my H28, the anchor locker bulkhead, bunk fronts, galley and nav bench sides and fronts and engine area paneling, plus a couple of smaller ones here and there.

I'll make a few mock-ups and try some different panels, shapes, materials etc to see what I have that works.

But pre-empting that opportunity, as it will have to wait until I can afford to buy the ogee profile bits, has anyone here used ply for the raised panels and did you manage to get a suitable edge on the panel itself?

I have a great supply of good veneered plys of various thicknesses, although it will be a waste of the veneers I plan to paint the panels in an antique gloss white anyway.

Any advice, ideas, comments? I've never tried making them before.

[David G]

I've never used plywood for the raised panels.... and never would. Too much raw edge exposed - which becomes a challenge to sand smooth and seal for paint prep.

I've used plywood for a thin 1/4" (6mm) Recessed Panel - centered in the depth of the frame, or flush with the back of the frame. I'm not sure that would be stout enough for your application.

Since you're painting - a less expensive option would be waterproof 3/4" (18mm) MDF.

[stromborg]

I don't think a true raised panel, ah, panel will work well as a bulkhead. The raised panel portion floats in the frame that surrounds it so if you need it to add integrity to the hull (for something like your anchor locker bulkhead) building a true bulkhead and adding the panel as a cosmetic touch is probably a better way to go.

As for shaping the panels, with plywood the cutter is going to be working against the grain of 50% of the plies. This can get a little hairy and might be more finish work than you want to get into.

Steve

[Ron Williamson]

Simple panels can be done with a table saw.
I've made several hundred panels ,but never in ply,for the reasons above,nor any for a bulkhead.
Flat panels can easily be made by applying a frame of 1/4" x 2 1/2"stock directly onto smooth plywood.
R

[Tall Boy]

Whatever you use, you'll need to be spot on on the glue up. I've listened to a lot of RP bulkhead treatments that weren't built tight squeak and creak when the boat rolls

[David G]

Whatever you use, you'll need to be spot on on the glue up. I've listened to a lot of RP bulkhead treatments that weren't built tight squeak and creak when the boat rolls

Sorry... just the nature of the beast. You can't glue the panels in firmly (though you might get away with it with MDF panels) because they need the room to expand and contract. Therefore - they are set in loose, captured by the surrounding frame members... but perfectly free to 'work' - creating the symphony you refer to. It can be reduced with a judicious application of lubricant (beeswax, graphite, etc.) either during the glueup or subsequently.

[SMARTINSEN]

Arch Davis has an article about this very subject in issue #99 of WB magazine. I remember it well because it was my first exposure to the magazine, and I have been a reader ever since.

In addition to a discussion of technique, he addresses the stiffness requirement of plywood needed for a rigid bulkhead by suggesting that the raised panel be done as a decorative overlay. Worth the read.

[Mrleft8]

There's a good primer that you can use on painted plywood raised panels. You'll never know they aren't solid wood, except that they wont move. Gluing ply panels into the frames is fine and will make a perfectly good bulkhead.
I'll see if I can find the name of the primer (It's also very good for priming MDF and particle board).

[chas]

"Simple panels can be done with a table saw."

An excellent method for one of the more standard raised panel profiles. I've even done some with a skilsaw (not a wormdrive, though), for the lack of better equipment in a remote location. Did you know that the front wheel of a standard belt sander matches the profile well enough to do most of the heavy lifting as far as initial sanding is concerned. :) / Jim

[Michael D. Storey]

I just saw the Misfits on the T & V las night, and heard Eli Wallach ('BLONDIE!!') playing the part of Guido, extolling the 'modern' flat panel doors on his new, partially completed house....

[Larks]

Thanks all, great responses to consider and I'm a bit more inspired to have a go at them now. There weren't any structural bulkheads in my H28 when I stripped her out, but in the case of the anchor locker bulkhead I'm pretty happy to glue the ply panels in place rather than have them floating anyway.

I'll try a few mock ups using the table saw to see how they come up, I'll still need the router bits for the bulkhead panels though as they will be curved to the hull sides. I don't have issue #99 but I'll see if I can find that article on line.

This is another of those "do it to see how to do it" projects.

[chas]

"I'll try a few mock ups using the table saw to see how they come up, I'll still need the router bits for the bulkhead panels though as they will be curved to the hull sides"

I'm laughing while I'm typing this, Larks, but it's the curved ones that you can cut with the skilsaw. Honest. If your are buying the bits anyway you might as well do them all like that, as you won't likely match the table saw profile.

I have my boat books and older issues of Wooden Boat mags out of storage this past winter for the first time in seven years. Looking at page 39 of Sensible Cruising Designs right now; sweet and easy lines to follow there, if that's your goal. Best of luck with whatever you choose. / Jim

[David G]

On an H28, I suspect the originals were, indeed, raised panels. Solid mahogany panels with solid mahogany frames.

If you're willing to stray from authenticity - then a solid plywood panel with overlaid frames would work fine, and give you to option of making the bulkheads structural. Even timber frames with glued-in MDF panels would do the same... and give you the Raised Panel look. I'd reiterate my warning about trying to create raised panels with plywood... for a variety of reasons. Have fun!

[Jim Ledger]

You can glue a solid wood border around a plywood panel, mitered at the corners. The panel raise can then be machined into the solid wood edge. It requires some precision but has the advantage of avoiding the end grain on the panel raise. You could probably get away with gluing such a panel in place in the groove.

Often a flat plywood panel gives a cleaner look with half the work, especially if it's painted.

[Jay Greer]

Greg, On"Bright Star"some of her bulkheads made of African Mahogony which are true raised panels and are, to my thinking, quite handsome. Other bulkheads are T&G Which I kind of like as it gives some contrast. While some may advocate the use of a table saw for doing the job, I have made them that way, there is a bit of danger and the possibilty of damaging stock if you make even the slightest mistake. Although a jig can be built to hold the stock for a vertical pass it won't follow a curve. Using a panel raising bit with a bearing to trace a pattern is a much safer and eaiser way to work as the panel is shaped while flat on the router table. The panels should float in the frame rabbets in order to allow for shrinking and expansion. They can be centered by using a items known as
"Space Balls" that are made just for that purpose. These are little rubber balls that are fitted in the frame grooves prior to assembly. By the way, "Bright Star's" bulkheads are quiet. Jay
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9db28b3127ccec747dd78aa8500000040O00QYsmrNy5bsQ e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/ http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dd28b3127ccec6c76c6cd38b00000040O00QYsmrNy5bsQ e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/Note the contrast of the white T&G

[Larks]

You can glue a solid wood border around a plywood panel, mitered at the corners. The panel raise can then be machined into the solid wood edge. It requires some precision but has the advantage of avoiding the end grain on the panel raise. You could probably get away with gluing such a panel in place in the groove.

Often a flat plywood panel gives a cleaner look with half the work, especially if it's painted.

That sounds like an interesting concept Jim, mindful also of David G's advice, I assume the panel raise is the full width of the edge strip to hide the join between that and the ply panel and could be shaped before being fitted to the ply panel?

Jay, I have that photo of your cockpit in my "ideas" folder and it's one of the main inspirations for wanting to try this on the internal paneling as a practice for when I do my own cockpit bulkhead with more valuable timber. I do also plan to do my cabin top with the tongue and groove finish similar to yours, Luke has some great photos showing how they did them on the schooner in Vietnam so that the grooves stop before and after the deck beams.

But yours and Jims comments have me wondering now whether the contrast of using the flat panels on the interior and the raised on the exterior may be better...........???? Something for me to think about while I play around with the mockups.

[Jay Greer]

Greg,
I think what ever you decide, it will be just fine. Every thing else has been so!
Jay

[St.J]

Larks,
Another photo for your folder if you don't already have it. From Stirling and Sons website (http://Stirling and Sons website).
They are using different types of flat and fielded panels. I guess the fielded panels will be seen and the flat will be covered by lockers, bunks or seating, though why they need the beading on the covered panels, I don't know. Presumably the beading is just decorative. It can't be expected to hold panels in a bulkhead?
"We are fitting her out at the moment in oak panelling. The detail has been taken from photographs of Victorian yacht interiors, with lots of morticing and tenoning to make up the frames, then the different fielded and flat panels, and then the beading."
http://www.stirlingandson.co.uk/courses/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/s-Bulkhead.jpg

[m2c1Iw]

Awesome workmanship in that photo St.J getting the frame to fit the curves, something any wood butcher would aspire to but am surprised they used the timber with the obvious defects perhaps I'm missing something.

[St.J]

You chaps clearly have a better choice of timber than we do!
I thought the rails and stiles looked pretty clear at that length. The knot at the bottom left may be covered by a moulding and the one in the stile second from left at the bottom will probably have seating hiding it?
None of them look structural to me but I'm no expert. There's a bigger picture here (http://intheboatshed.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Integritys-Bulkhead.jpg), courtesy of intheboatshed.com
That said it is supposed to be a gentleman's yacht so a first class finish would be expected.

The work Stirling and Sons does is astonishing. Those rails across the top look like they were cut as one continuous piece until you look at the grain. I guess you could pick up the shape from the lofting, assuming they lofted the deck?

[Larks]

Thanks for the photo St John, I have seen that photo somewhere...Classic Boat??? I assume they are going to paint it when finished rather than finish it bright.

John (Johnno) very kindly flicked the article from WB #99 to me this morning and I set out for the shed to start experimenting on cutting the raised edges with the table saw. However somehow dragging out the timber that I wanted to use turned into a bit of a timber access rearangement which turned into loft area rearangement which has turned pretty much into an entire shed rearangement. Must be something to do with it being a miserably wet day here but now I've got at least another half a days work to put it all back together again before I can get back to the table saw...........

[PeterSibley]

Greg, should you decide to use your table saw you might find this helpful ... and i agree with Jay !

http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

[Larks]

Looks interesting Peter. I'd been reading a few others and this is also a great site showing what Ron and Jim (Chas) were regerring to with the table saw.

http://www.cabinetmaking.com/pages/raised_panel.htm

[Ron Williamson]

Just so you know,I raise panels on the table saw with the fence moved to the opposite side of the blade,which is tilted to 15 degrees or so.
I use a zero clearance table insert and cut them vertically with my most of my tender digits behind the fence.
It takes two passes.One with the blade at about 1 1/2" and 15 degrees and the next with the blade at 1/4" and 0/90 degrees.

Otherwise,I'd just use the shaper with a proper RP cutter and a power feed.

IMHO,those giant 3 wing RP router bits should be outlawed.

Also IMHO,the minimum thickness is about 1 1/4".
We make cabinet doors at 7/8" and it is marginal for bigger stuff like pantries.(Built any thicker, normal Euro hinges don't really work.)
With something wide like a bulkhead,assembled from shorter pieces, it would likely be very difficult to install without flexing excessively,unless it was quite thick.
R

[MiddleAgesMan]

One of the super high-end shops I worked in down in south Florida made raised panels from plywood--very high grade plywood. The raised portion was cut from plywood, sequence matched to adjacent panels. Panel edges--the tapered/shaped portions--were done with solid wood, mitered around the plywood center panel. Very tedious work but the rewards were: (1) stable panels that did not need much expansion room and (2) sequence matched faces and (3) no end-grain on the shaped edges.

[chas]

"Just so you know,I raise panels on the table saw with the fence moved to the opposite side of the blade,which is tilted to 15 degrees or so.
I use a zero clearance table insert and cut them vertically with my most of my tender digits behind the fence.
It takes two passes.One with the blade at about 1 1/2" and 15 degrees and the next with the blade at 1/4" and 0/90 degrees."

I like the look of panels that are made like that way, Ron, simple yet elegant. Make your drawer fronts to match. Those exterior panels on Bright Star could have been made that way. / Jim

[Mrleft8]

Mitered frame/ply flat panels are effective, but a pain to build....
"Claw-Lok" is the primer I was thinking of... Looking it up on the web, it looks like there are several options but the one by Prather is the one I have experience with.... The American coatings site has some interesting stuff to peruse as well....
http://www.americancoatings.com/products.html
http://www.pratherpaint.com/woodfinishes/clawlok/index.php

[Larks]

Ron, that's actually how I pictured it after reading your earlier post until I saw that cabinet making web site. Yours sounds a bit easier actually but I'll have a go at both.

MAM, what you describe sounds like what Jim was describing above???

[Mrleft8]

BTW.... I have a couple of the "Vertical" raised panel cutters for my router. IE: They only have about a 3/4" Dia. but are 2 1/2" long, and you run them from the edge of the panel, not the face... Great Idea, but they really don't seem to work very well. They tend to burn, and try to ride away from the stock... (Or the stock tries to run away from the cutter....) These are good quality brand cutters (Amana, and Freud) so I don't think it's a question of bad cutting edges, and it's not just one that does this, but all of them.

[chas]

Larks, that photo from stirling and sons will help me explain a thought I had last night. I might only panel the exposed portion of your bulkheads. design and build your bunk/seating, cabinetry and other joinerwork first and then install your panels to match. That way it all might have more "proportion".

I don't like the panel details that just run blankly into the curve of the hull. The ceiling and other joinerwork should have a flat section to butt on. my opinion only. / Jim

[Mrleft8]

larks, that photo from stirling and sons will help me explain a thought i had last night. I might only panel the exposed portion of your bulkheads. Design and build your bunk/seating, cabinetry and other joinerwork first and then install your panels to match. That way it all might have more "proportion".

I don't like the panel details that just run blankly into the curve of the hull. The ceiling and other joinerwork should have a flat section to butt on. My opinion only. / jim

y> +99

[chas]

These three doors are what are left of the original galley on Accolade. Notwithstanding the finish, they continue to operate smoothly and are fitted to fairly close tolerances.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sahccess/7121200381/

The 3/4" ply door has the styles and rails which are 3/8" thick and 2-1/4" wide rabbeted into the face of the ply door. The edges and back of the door are painted. The round molding is actually one piece and serves as a jamb for the opening and also is rabbeted to act as a stop behind the door.

A couple of years ago, when idle and before I found my Dickinson stove, I mocked up some uppers from some salvage pallet stock. The finish on the new work is West over stain, I haven't got around to the satin varnish yet, which I understand will darken this to give me more of the aged look. All the pieces were epoxied before assembly as I knew there would be a rejigging after I found and installed the stove.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sahccess/6975117992/

Although the unfinished doors didn't survive storage in a damp location (is there any other on this coast?), I still have a place to keep the peanut butter and coffee cups.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sahccess/6975117798/

Not fancy I know, but at my age it's more important to keep it simple and keep moving. Sorry about the links; I still can't seem to download direct to here. / Jim

[Jay Greer]

Awesome workmanship in that photo St.J getting the frame to fit the curves, something any wood butcher would aspire to but am surprised they used the timber with the obvious defects perhaps I'm missing something.
Back in the early seventies I did some restorative work on David Crosby's schooner "Mayan". I still remember the defects and amazing grain patterns that were in the reaised panel bulkheads. One of the crew members told me, one day, how much he enjoyed sitting in the quiet cabin and gazing at the complex grain patterns in the panels. "Very restful", he said. I have always rembembered how unique those panels were and, as a result, I often incorporate flawed wood into my own designs just to create interest.
Jay

[Paul Girouard]

Do you have to have a cove on your proposed raised panels?

If not make a tall fence for your table-saw , this is a window sill , but the concept is the same, angle the blade, my saws a tilt right model so you move the fence to the left side of the blade. The high fence drops over the Beisemeyer (sp) fence and helps greatly with the "wiggling / tilting" a tall panel wants to do as you push it thru the saw.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Aug10th.jpg


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Aug10th2.jpg

This one is a Cedar raised panel under a re-lite window next to a entry door , the panels on the existing door had the double step , so I matched it.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Jan1620085.jpg

The different widths on the panel edges compensated for the different over lays the "styles and rail"/ or in this case the door and window casing , would have on the reveals.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Jan1620087.jpg

With the right add on fence , raising a panel on a table saw isn't a big deal IMO. But as they say , woodworking is inherently dangerous.

[Paul Girouard]

BTW.... I have a couple of the "Vertical" raised panel cutters for my router. IE: They only have about a 3/4" Dia. but are 2 1/2" long, and you run them from the edge of the panel, not the face... Great Idea, but they really don't seem to work very well. They tend to burn, and try to ride away from the stock... (Or the stock tries to run away from the cutter....) These are good quality brand cutters (Amana, and Freud) so I don't think it's a question of bad cutting edges, and it's not just one that does this, but all of them.

I'm sure you've attempted to use feather boards to force the stock into the bit? I've never used the vertical R/P bits but assumed that would be the issue with them , maybe a power feed would be the solution? All it is a money issue , more money = more / better tooling!

[Paul Girouard]

Even larger panels are do-able, these Cherry ones where cut on the table saw,

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct1220082.jpg

[Mrleft8]

Yes I used feather boards Paul....:rolleyes:
The power feed was me. But I did think the same thing, and brought a bit to another shop that has a power feed on a shaper that can take a 1/2" shank router bit.... Same thing. If you feed it fast enough so that it doesn't burn, it forces it's self away from the cutter. So then we tried a seriously stout forced feather board, and the power feed. The results were ugly. The stock actually forced it's self up until it jammed under the power feed arm arbor, and kicked the overload on the 5HP shaper. And it was terrifyingly loud even with ear muffs. I tossed that bit in the trash. I sent another one back to Freud to see if they could find a problem. They just sent me a new one with no comment. That bit behaved the same.
It's very possible that I was doing something wrong, or that I've gotten bad bits, but I don't think so.
This is why I now farm out panel raising jobs.
I had a shaper, but it just took up space, and I only used it about once every 3 years.....

[Paul Girouard]

Yes I used feather boards Paul....:rolleyes:

I had a shaper, but it just took up space, and I only used it about once every 3 years.....



That's what I assumed , like I said / wrote, yet I still get the ole :rolleyes: well back at ya shipmate :rolleyes:

Yes shapers sit idle for years , two shops I worked for sold theirs for the same reason. Like I said it's a money issue , like many things , add money and you should be able to cure the problem.

At least in the private sector|;)

[Jim Ledger]

Even with a power feed shaper I have to take multiple passes to get acceptable results on a raised panel. That's a lot of wood to remove. On a three wing cutter there's such a difference in the cutter speed at different points of the diameter you're almost bound to get some burning somewhere, even with a sharp cutter.



Not a bulkhead but a mantel. The principle is the same though. These were done with a three wing cutter. When it starts up it sounds like a B-29 on takeoff and makes you wish you were wearing a Kevlar codpiece.:d

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/P1010012-2.jpg

[Gib Etheridge]

Likewise. 2 or 3 passes with for softwood, 3 or 4 for hardwood.

I call my router cutter the rotor, as in helicopter, it's by far the loudest tool I ever use, louder than the chain saw. I don't scare any more easily than most, but I don't sleep well the night before using that thing. It's the only tool I have that I would rather not use, power tool anyway, I don't like pickaxeing. What I like about it though is that it's an improvement over doing straight bevels on the saw or with a plane in that the edge of the panel is of uniform thickness for 5/16 or so. If the panel shrinks it still fits nicely in the slot. That doesn't usually matter in the interior of a house, given dry lumber and not too wide or vertical grain panels to begin with, but exterior work can go through wetting and drying cycles, as it would anywhere on a boat. I put a dab of glue in the slot at the center of the top and bottom of each panel to keep it centered.

I didn't notice that anyone had mentioned the joinery of the stiles and rails. I use cope and molding bits for that and have never regretted it. Glued with epoxy (because of the end grain of the rails) the joint is sufficiently strong. The trouble with epoxy for that joint is that it can soak into the end grain and show on the very ends of the rails, which interferes with staining.

I too like 7/8 for the stiles and rails, the extra 1/8 provides better backing for the panel. If the entire assembly were glued onto a piece of plywood, which might not be wise with a wide assembly, 3/4 would work.

I can see where the vertical cutters would be hard to use. Perhaps several light passes would do it.

[Jay Greer]

Although I have used vertial cutters, I find them to be a bit scary. Normally I like to have my panels flat on the shaper or router table which I prefer over using a tilted saw blade. I also make sure that the work is between me and the blade. I once saw a spindle shaper throw a blade through the corrigated aluminum wall of a shop I was working in. That was reason enough for me to quite working for that builder. I did quit as he refused to add saftey screws to the cutter head on the shop spindle shaper.
Jay

[chas]

" makes you wish you were wearing a Kevlar codpiece.:d " ... Yes , running that hard maple has a man take notice. You almost need more intricate shapes in your moldings to make up for the light grain patterns. Is that a waterborne finish on the mantle, Jim?

[Jay Greer]

Although I have used vertial cutters, I find them to be a bit scary. Normally I like to have my panels flat on the shaper or router table which I prefer over using a tilted saw blade. I also make sure that the work is between me and the blade. I once saw a spindle shaper throw a blade through the corrigated aluminum wall of a shop I was working in. That was reason enough for me to quite working for that builder. I did quit as he refused to add safety screws to the cutter head on the shop spindle shaper.
Jay

[Mrleft8]

The roll eyes was intended to be sarcastic Paul.... But you knew that, didn't you? :rolleyes: ;) :D
... And yes, I tried doing the 3-4 passes thing too, but it actually seemed like it was more prone to riding out with light passes than heavy.... But all were unsatisfactory IMHOP..... And it very well could be that I was expecting way too much from the bits.... Even at $120 apiece ... 1/2" shank, and heavy carbide cutting edges... But I was trying to get a router table to do a shaper's job.... No doubt.

[ILikeRust]

I made a raised-panel bulkhead for my 1968 Pearson Wanderer. I'm slowly working towards making the cabin feel more like an old Herreshoff-type boat than a 1960's plastic classic.

I started with a couple douglas fir 2x6s from the home center. I resawed them into a bunch of boards just under 3/4" thick and planed them square and flat. I cut out any bad knots and such and was left with plenty of pretty nice, clear, straight-grained stuff. I used that to make the frames and then thinned some out a bit more and glued them up to make the panels. I raised the panels on the tablesaw and cleaned everything up with handplanes. It worked great.

Here is the dry-fit:

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/ilikerust/Grizabella/ExplodedJoineryRaisedPanels.jpg

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/ilikerust/Grizabella/DryFitRaisedPanels.jpg

I cut the frame members a bit over-long and oversized so I could trim it all down to fit.

After painting and installing, here's what it looks like in the boat:

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/ilikerust/Grizabella/Engine%20Overhaul/SUC52821.jpg

Which looks about a thousand times better than what was there before:

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/ilikerust/Grizabella/OnTheHardJanuary2011/SUC53454-1.jpg

I plan on doing some similar thin "faux" raised-panel bulkheads to cover up some of the old ugly ones that I'm not going to tear out and replace.

[Larks]

Lovely work Bill, what a tremendous difference indeed!!!

[ILikeRust]

Thanks. BTW, I agree with the others that I would not use plywood for raised panels. I have used plywood for flat frame-and-panel doors, on workshop cabinets and such. 1/4" birch or maple-veneer plywood works wonderfully for that. But for raised panels, particularly on a boat where there will always be humidity and moisture issues, I definitely would stick with solid wood. I know some cabinetmakers use MDF for things like bathroom and kitchen cabinets and then just paint it very well with good-quality paint, but I can't stand the stuff and never would advocate its use anywhere on a boat.

The good thing is that for interior woodwork that is going to be painted anyway, you don't need to use expensive or exotic woods. And even moreso if it's not a structural member. I think fir and pine are just fine for such bulkheads that are just meant for dividing the space up and nothing more, and that aren't going to see a lot of water anyhow. For something more structural, I don't see why you couldn't build a solid and strong frame, or even just a heavy plywood panel, and then cover it with a thin raised panel and faux frame members. There are lots of ways to achieve the look. The bulkheads in my boat are all marine plywood with a plastic fake woodgrain on it, as shown in the pic above. It looks very dark and dated. Fortunately, the PO of the boat painted most of them an off-white. I plan on gussying them up a bit more by applying thin frames and moldings to make them appear as traditional frame-and-panel bulkheads, without adding very much weight. It's easy enough to use 1/4" plywood ripped into strips to represent the frame members, glued onto the existing panels, and then apply a small molding around the interior spaces of the frames to make it appears as if it's a true frame-and-panel construction - particularly after it's all painted with a good quality white paint.

[chas]

With respect to the considered positions expressed above, I would like to return to the OP for a moment.

“But pre-empting that opportunity, as it will have to wait until I can afford to buy the ogee profile bits, has anyone here used ply for the raised panels and did you manage to get a suitable edge on the panel itself?
I have a great supply of good veneered plys of various thicknesses, although it will be a waste of the veneers I plan to paint the panels in an antique gloss white anyway.”

Larks has expressed the desire to utilize product he has on hand, perhaps intimating the burden of financial constraint ( a situation I am familiar with) and has asked for opinions as to the use of his ply to shape raised panels. One of the objections raised above appears to be from the threat of exposure of moisture intrusion into the considerable expanse of end grain of the shaped portion of the ply panel. If I may, Paul, I will refer to the cedar panel you pictured above (nice entry, BTW). The exposed endgrain in this panel is located in the top and bottom of the panel and consists of approximately half the surface area of the shaped portion of the panel. In a ply version of this panel endgrain is found in all four sections of the shaped surfaces, but as the plys are alternating as to direction, the surface area is also limited to roughly half the surface of the panel. The amount of endgrain to be sealed will be the same in either panel. It could be argued that a ply panel would be more stable then a solid version, because of the alternating grain orientation.

Relegating ply as the choice of panel material, we need to address the actual shaping of the panel. As indicated by many above, this situation is frought with many complications, most of which can be mitigated by the use of multiple passes through the shaping implement. Whatever method you use, accomplish it in small increments.

As a concession to Larks having the option of utilizing his tools on hand, and assuming those consist of tablesaw, skilsaw and beltsander, and some 120 grit, I think he has what he needs to mock up some simple panels from his existing ply stock. At the risk of being compared to Cap’n Rod I’ll submit the following.

I needed some support blocking on the wheelhouse roof of Accolade and wished to incorporate this while glassing the decking on the dock in Campbell River. I wanted a shaped edge to the blocks and my tools were a Makita sidewinder and a 3” beltsander. The blocks of ¾ fir construction ply were cut to size with the Makita and the shaped part of the edges was accomplished by setting depth to 1/2” and repeatedly dragging the saw sideways across the face, each pass cutting a little deeper into the panel by using my left hand holding the table as a guide. The shape was smoothed out with the front roller of the belt sander before install.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7113/6978603722_bfa20d08f6.jpg

Sealing of the endgrain and filling of voids was accomplished with West and 407 prior to glassing. The end result, sporting a coat of primer.http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7074/7124688769_7d432c6f6d.jpg

A much finer version of this could be accomplished in a shop or inside the boat, where perhaps the lack of time constraints and a weather effect would allow a more suitable result. Hope this helps, Larks, and good luck. / Jim

[Larks]

Thank you for the well considered reply Jim, that is a terrific help. Nice job on the support blocking bye the way.
cheers, Greg

[Larks]

Thankyou everyone for the generous advice. I've had a go at mocking up a raised panel using my table saw and I'm pretty happy with the result. I still want to get the ogee bits for the stile edges and joins but in the meantime I did a bit of a rough and ready stile on the table saw for this mockup.

I've posted a bit of a photo essay on the process on my H28 thread
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?111296-H28-quot-Larrikin-quot-rebuild/page23
but here's a pic of the mockup anyway. Please ignore the dreadful paint job, which did the most to ruin a decent outcome, I used some rubbish leftover water based enamel that I'd never use anywhere else just for the sake of seeing how the edge of the ply came up.

And the result is that I'm quite happy with the outcome, shaping the curve accross the table saw blade and giving it all a decent sanding left a nice clean edge:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Larks_01/IMG_1358.jpg