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David G
04-27-2012, 12:28 AM
L.A. is NOT #1

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-10-most-polluted-cities-2012.html

jsjpd1
04-27-2012, 01:26 AM
No...but apparently it still sucks to live in southern California

LeeG
04-27-2012, 04:28 AM
are engines used in agriculture held to different pollution standards than motor vehicles? It would be interesting to see similar ratings for coastal and inland water pollution.

Anyway it's been quite a treat using 1000's of lbs of machinery to move one person around. Who would have thought there would be consequences.

In LA Harbor I think they are using diesel electric hybrid crane trucks for moving the containers around.

Dan McCosh
04-27-2012, 08:21 AM
are engines used in agriculture held to different pollution standards than motor vehicles? It would be interesting to see similar ratings for coastal and inland water pollution.

Anyway it's been quite a treat using 1000's of lbs of machinery to move one person around. Who would have thought there would be consequences.

In LA Harbor I think they are using diesel electric hybrid crane trucks for moving the containers around. They started phasing in standards for off-highway equipment about five years ago. Similar for marine engines.

genglandoh
04-27-2012, 08:23 AM
The top 5 are all in California.

California has the highest standard for their environmental laws I wonder why they are the top 5 on this list.

LeeG
04-27-2012, 08:31 AM
The top 5 are all in California.

California has the highest standard for their environmental laws I wonder why they are the top 5 on this list.

Because you don't want an answer? Because you're lazy. Because you haven't read any of the article. Maybe it's because they HAD TO HAVE THE HIGHEST STANDARDS IN ORDER TO NOT HAVE PEOPLE DIE FROM POLLUTION. Seriously, do you try to be this ignorant?

Here, let me help. The San Joaquin Valley is one of the most productive places in the world, let alone the USofA, in agriculture and oil. All that productivity is made possible from burning oil fuels in engines. A valley, or this valley, is a low area surrounded by mountains. That means it traps air pollution. This is something scientists and oil engineers knew 60yrs ago and helped to provide the warning and need for pollutions controls way back in the 50's before the environmental movement.

It's really unfortunate you are unwilling and unable to seek out simple answers.


"Bakersfield sits in a bowl surrounded on three sides by the Sierras and the California coastal ranges. Air drifts down the valley from other cities and lingers, allowing pollutants to build up, according to Jaime Holt, chief communications officer for the San Joaquin Valley Air Quality District. Making matters worse, the sun bakes the air, causing photochemical smog. And the dry weather adds dust particles to the mix."

Geng, where do you think the run-off pollution for the Chesapeake or Gulf of Mexico comes from? Those dead zones?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_County,_California#Economy

The county accounts for one-tenth of overall U.S. oil production, and three of the five largest U.S. oil fields are in Kern County. Kern is also noted for its mineral wealth, including gold, borate, and kernite. The largest open pit mine in California, which mines borax, is at Boron in Kern County.[9]
[edit]Petroleum
As of 2009, Kern is California's top oil-producing county, with 81% of the state's 52,144 active oil wells.[10

The county today contributes more than three-quarters of all the oil produced onshore in California.

LeeG
04-27-2012, 08:45 AM
They started phasing in standards for off-highway equipment about five years ago. Similar for marine engines.


when I was a kid I helped my grandfather light the smudge pots in his farm in Santa Paula, I think they were banned by the 70's.

genglandoh
04-27-2012, 08:46 AM
Because you don't want an answer? Because you're lazy. Because you haven't read any of the article.

Here, let me help. The San Joaquin Valley is one of the most productive places in the world, let alone the USofA, in agriculture and oil. All that productivity is made possible from burning oil fuels in engines. A valley, or this valley, is a low area surrounded by mountains. That means it traps air pollution. This is something scientists and oil engineers knew 60yrs ago and helped to provide the warning and need for pollutions controls way back in the 50's before the environmental movement.

It's really unfortunate you are unwilling and unable to seek out simple answers.


"Bakersfield sits in a bowl surrounded on three sides by the Sierras and the California coastal ranges. Air drifts down the valley from other cities and lingers, allowing pollutants to build up, according to Jaime Holt, chief communications officer for the San Joaquin Valley Air Quality District. Making matters worse, the sun bakes the air, causing photochemical smog. And the dry weather adds dust particles to the mix."

Ask a simple question and get an insult.
At least you did answer the question for that I thank you.

If I was asked what cities are the most polluted I would have picked.
NY, LA and Houston because I would have guessed that population was the biggest factor.

Dan McCosh
04-27-2012, 09:02 AM
Localized air pollution is the result of two things: A source of pollution--which can be anything from fertilizer in farm fields, industrial activity, traffic, etc.--plus geography that traps the pollution in the local area. The cities in California are particularly prone to geographic influences, often bowls in a dessert surrounded by mountains on three sides. LA is unusual in being a desert bowl trapped by mountains on the coast. Most coastal cities benefit from the pollution blown out to sea. The natural effects are quite strong, and there is evidence that air pollution was an issue in the LA basin before it was settled by Europeans.

LeeG
04-27-2012, 09:04 AM
Ask a simple question and get an insult.
At least you did answer the question for that I thank you.

If I was asked what cities are the most polluted I would have picked.
NY, LA and Houston because I would have guessed that population was the biggest factor.

If it was a simple question you would have said "I wonder why Ca. has so many cities with high ozone/air pollution levels?"

Your leading question is as dumb as saying "I wonder why firefighters get injured if they have so many safety standards?"

The problems of pollution aren't just the source, it's where it goes. 200yrs ago Los Angeles Basin would collect smoke from different villages and it would hang in the air. There are more people in LA now than in the late 60's and the air was worse then. If it wasn't for the environmental laws it would be much worse.

California had to protect it's environment because it was growing so fast and growing with the burning of fossil fuels. Would that the rest of the country could have done as much with the Chesapeake or effluent to the Gulf.

Where does the agricultural run-off in Ohio go?

Osborne Russell
04-27-2012, 10:01 AM
The top 5 are all in California.

California has the highest standard for their environmental laws I wonder why they are the top 5 on this list.

1. Over-population
2. American Exceptionalism
a. MEM
B. Technology worship

LeeG
04-27-2012, 10:56 AM
Hey Geng, sorry about my over-reaction. Your simple question was preceded by an incongruous comment. Where else will laws regulating pollution occur than where there's a pollution problem?
I suppose if you live in a place where you don't experience the immediate consequences of your pollution you may not see the need for regulating it.

genglandoh
04-27-2012, 02:42 PM
Hey Geng, sorry about my over-reaction. Your simple question was preceded by an incongruous comment. Where else will laws regulating pollution occur than where there's a pollution problem?
I suppose if you live in a place where you don't experience the immediate consequences of your pollution you may not see the need for regulating it.

Its OK, I understand.

IMHO California is a very clean state (except for LA) they spend a lot of money on keeping the environment clean, they started recycling and have the highest EPA standards for Power Plants and cars.

So when I read the story you posted I was surprised that so many on the list are in California.

LeeG
04-28-2012, 07:32 AM
Its OK, I understand.

IMHO California is a very clean state (except for LA) they spend a lot of money on keeping the environment clean, they started recycling and have the highest EPA standards for Power Plants and cars.

So when I read the story you posted I was surprised that so many on the list are in California.

the article was about rating cities according to air ozone and air pollution. Your reasoning is a bit fuzzy, it's like saying one is surprised that a region with lots of laws against crime should have high crime.

ahp
04-29-2012, 04:01 PM
When I used to fly into Denver on business in the 1970's there was a yellow haze over the city by afternoon, pollution trapped between the continental divide on the west and the high plains on the east. Is it still that way?

Dan McCosh
04-29-2012, 04:15 PM
When I used to fly into Denver on business in the 1970's there was a yellow haze over the city by afternoon, pollution trapped between the continental divide on the west and the high plains on the east. Is it still that way? Denver has a high-altitude inversion problem, which is similar to Mexico City, a geographic feature that traps pollution, particularly in the summer.