Epoxy

[Aussie]

Is it possible to put pigments into epoxy, like a paint or a powder, to colour it, OK, color for the Yanks? ;)

I am getting a nice smooth finish on my epoxy, really glass-like. :D It seems to be a lot tougher than most paints I've played with, and I think if possible, colouring it would save me the trouble of, well, painting it.

I have heard of people using talcum powder and graphite powder to colour their epoxy. For things like faking the compound on a planked deck made out of plywood. Looked good by all accounts.

Or how does it go over the top of a paint job, for protecting it? Keep in mind the low UV exposure my kayak is going to get. Anyone got an idea??

Cheers and happy New Year :D :D :D :D :D

[On Vacation]

Yes you can pigment the epoxy. We use colors in it to do false seams in wood on laminated decks. White is the worse color to get an opague finish with it. But epoxy breaks down in sun. Many clear finish canoes and kayaks use a good varnish over it to protect it from breaking down. Brown seems to be the best for coloring the resin. Tints come in small tubes or small half pint containers.

There is great finish out in epoxy called Polymide Coating. It is a premix color epoxy that is used on water towers here in the U.S. It gives you the best of both worlds. It is already a nice opague white and also comes in about six colors. This is also tintable. It is the equivalant to a gelcoat in consistancy and comes in a 1 to 1 mix.

[NormMessinger]

Long ago, in a shop far away, a tech rep with WEST told me that powdered Tempra paints from the local school supply store would work to tint epoxy. I bought a pint of brown. A teeny, tiney bit goes a long way.

System Three sells colors specifically made for epoxy. I tried a sample of the white but so long ago I can't tell you how opaque it makes the mix.

--Norm

[Uri @ Amir]

Graphite will give it a nice black shine, and will make it harder (I coated the bottom of my Guilmout kayak and I can paddle it to shore with minimal damage). White will make it somewhat opaque, other colors tend to be opaque also. I would stay away from wood flour as it diminishes the strength of the epoxy.

[WWheeler]

I recently tried an "epoxy paint", a two part system (1-1) that produced a really smooth surface, with more depth of coverage that a typical paint. (Titanium (?) was the brand name. Also recently picked cheap some two part epoxy paint that was marketed for general use, not yacht paint, and so much cheaper. There's been some references to epoxy paints on the forum, by the Chemist notably. (without brand names).

[Wild Wassa]

Hi Aussie, (that's got a nice ring to it, :D ) and following on from Norm's advice.

What are you using, what brand?, that's a good indicator, as to whether the epoxy will last. BoteCraft Pacific's epoxy BuildCote, doesn't seem to have much resiliance to UV, 2 to 3 seasons max, from observing our boats and talking to others. It doesn't like water directly on the surface, a 'clear' water based polyurethane should be laid over the epoxy, just to increase the longevity, with or without pigments added (to the epoxy). The water uptake of epoxy is about 2gms per 60gms, over 24 hrs, hence the need also, for a clear top coat.

If you are after a coloured pigment, try not to use organic pigments. Not at all light fast. Try to find mineral pigments they have greater resistance to fading. Try to use pigments with a fastness of , 4, 5 or 6. Dioxazine Violet I think is 6. The organics are in the 1 to 3 range, not suitable outdoors. The rare mined mineral pigments tend to be in the 5 and 6 range, and are very expensive.

One thing I would do is use a non-yellowing hardener such as BCP's, Non-yellowing Hardener.
The curing temp (advice from BCP) of the N-Y Hardener is 26 oC, right up your ally. I would allow a full week before cutting back, it has a slower cure than BCP's normal hardener, for sure.

Extend all curing of epoxy, I find the cut works well then, most of the shrinking will have happened, less filling in the long run. Do tests, to determine your 'wet colour' and 'dry colour', they are often very different. Do your tests in daylight( or under a similar colour temperature light source, 5,500K). You will view the boat in daylight. If you don't, you can paint at night, and be sadly surprised the next morning.

If you are stuck for tracking down pigments, let me know, or obtain a pigment colour card from an artist supply shop, that's a good start. Try to obtain an 'Archival' colour card, or an 'Attiliers' colour card. Give the manufacturers a call and tell them what you are intending to do. There are a greater variety of pigments (after Norm) and cheaper too, than you will find in a trade-painter's shop.

Warren.

ps, Good luck. No problemos in Brissy for supplies. Go down to the School of Art. I use to live in Graceville and Oxley and Northgate.

[ 12-28-2002, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Aussie]

Yeah cool guys, thanks for the replies! :D

Since this is my first boat (well kayak is a boat isn't it?) I am not really going to spend too much on it. I made up the plans myself, and am only using exterior grade (read ****e) ply from the hardware store.

I am using Boat Cote (Boat Craft Pacific) epoxy and am very impressed. Since I've previously only ever had experience with polyester resins. Bluurrgh, hated them.

So I don't want to spend ages on painting. And I've got two to three more coats to put on the bottom yet (light blue hull, shiny deck and dark wood rub rail). I thought it would be a good combination if I could colour the epoxy. Kill two birds etc.

My Dad did suggest gel coat, but I think that polyester (is that a polyester?) resins don't go on top of epoxies do they? But Oyster solved that problem with the polymide coatings. See if I can track it down over here.

I still think I'd like to try pigmenting the epoxy, to see how it and the polymide coating work. And when to use which one. Damn, guess I got to build another boat now ;)

Hey Wassa, wassup :D

[On Vacation]

FYI:
http://www.benjaminmoore.com/wrapper_pg3.asp?L=prod&K=indcoat&groupid=32
I don't know if this is any help, but check with your better paint stores in the Aussie land. And for those of you here in the states, This is a very nice substitute and a two coat recoat for lockers and bilges of glass coating. I do know that it use to comes in safety colors . It is tintable to almost any color.

[Mike Vogdes]

Never had much success tinting epoxy resin. I use WEST epoxy and tried on a few different occasions to tint the resin with limited results. I find it much better to tint the epoxy primer paint(interlux) prior to finish coat.

Oyster,
Its unfortunate that all this childish behavior that is directed towards you has been bleeding over to the real forums lately, maybe if you didn't respond to their antagonizing comments they would leave you alone.
Your willingness to help others with their boat related questions and problems should be commended. You seem to be very helpfull to alot of these folks. I have been hanging around here for years now and have sadly watched the quality of responders deteriorate over time. Hopefully you won't join there ranks..

[Art Read]

What Mike said...

[NormMessinger]

Well, Joe, if that was a serious question, I do. I may never use the technique, I'm trying to ween myself from building boats, I'm still interested.

--Norm

[Scott Rosen]

I care, too. Thanks for your useful posts, Oyster, especially the link to the Benjamin Moore industrial coatings. Oyster, please try to ignore the insults that get sent your way. It's beneath your dignity to respond. Also, please keep posting, as you have a lot of useful boat-related knowledge and experience to share.

[Alan D. Hyde]

This time of year, more than any other, magnanimity and goodwill are called for.

Thanks for some good information, Mike. I agree with Scott's suggestion.

Joe, you've made some great contributions to this Forum, and I've been impressed with the fine quality of your work. This kind of thing should be beneath you...

Alan

[On Vacation]

Thanks guys. smile.gif You put a smile back on my face today. Later

[stan v]

Oyster, good to see you posting again. :D

[Tonyr]

Wassa, in an earlier comment in this thread you mentioned that the water uptake of epoxy is 2 gms per 60 gms per 24 hours. That's not my experience (I ran my own reasonably careful experiments, and measured the water absorption over time). Where do you get your figures? What epoxy were you using?

Thanks, Tony.

[Keith Wilson]

I'll add my .02 - I've no experience with other pigments, but have used System 3 with graphite (10-20% by volume) on several boats. The graphite sems to significantly improve both abrasion and UV resistance. FWIW, the epoxy/graphite bottom of a boat that's been left upside down outside (although in a relatively shady spot) for a year or so shows no visible change. I suppose I'll know in another five years if it works as well as paint.

Graphite changes the physical characterists of the uncured epoxy unlike anythimg else I've used. It makes it more viscous but less thixotropic - flows slowly but well, and it's hard to get it not to run on anything but horizontal surfaces. I really like it for plywood/glass rudders and centerboards, and on the bottom of dry-sailed boats. It looks good and wears well.