View Full Version : Atkin line drawing that impresses can amaze you in a color illustration
Two really great designs by Atkin have always caused me to pause at the balance and visual grace seen in just viewing the line drawings... "Amos Brown" and "Maid of Endor" ... (yes there are others).
I have never seen a photo of an "Amos Brown", and recently while experimenting with colorizing line drawings, I messed around with this favorite design from the past. Needless to say, the color illustration jumped out at me compared to the simple line drawing, and only confirmed my thoughts about this lovely design all this time... certainly one of Atkin's best. I was surprised at how she looked with her clothes on. I thought I had to share this cause the image just works for me. It would be nice to see some old photos of one of these. Although I am more interested in a trailerable design these days, she is lovely...
Quote from Mr Atkin:
Seldom have I had the opportunity to design a boat purely without the influence of a client, but Amos Brown is such a craft -- one designed just for fun.
04-16-2012, 12:51 AM
That is both Marvelous... and Gorgeous!
Will you be doing more? I'd love to see Gretchen done that way.
Also... I bet my friend John - who set up and maintains the Atkin website - would be interested in seeing them!
04-16-2012, 01:20 AM
04-16-2012, 01:30 AM
Please do some more.....
04-16-2012, 02:16 AM
Rod, that looks great! I love the subtlety of colouring, if you're starting a list - please consider "Fore n 'Aft" the one jsjpd1 (Jim) is modeling.http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?142283-Atkin-Fore-An-Aft-Cutter-Model
04-16-2012, 05:38 AM
beautiful work! thanks.
I need some decent sized line drawings of the hull with sailplan to do a drawing, the smaller low res images on the Atkin site are too small.
I will post a new one now and then from my reference files or if someone emails me a nice large 8.5 X 11 at 300 dpi image.
Peter, I have a Atkin book with several designs very nicely printed full page, I think I have "Fore and Aft" there. I'll look.
04-16-2012, 02:06 PM
Cool.....but fix your sail panel lines so that they are 90 degrees to a straight line from the peak to the clew. The headsails would actually work better and look neater mitre-cut (bisect the clew angle with a seam running clew to luff and run your panel seams 90 degrees to the leech and foot, meeting at the mitre (I know, picky, picky, picky....but it's my job). :)
I know, I know... Todd, but someone's got to do it... it might as well be you. BTW, I looked at several boat drawings on the Bray site and got a rough idea on the sail seams from there, but did not pay attention to the stated landmarks to orient them perfectly.
I'll fix it and get it right... Are your comments true for all these older boats? How about a diagram for any variations. How were the sail panels of boats of this era routinely sewn together in panel orientation? What would be a good width of each panel in the gaff main and the jib if different width?
I don't mind orienting the panels any way as long as it authentic.
04-16-2012, 02:21 PM
I think that's lovely. Alden's Malabar Jr., I mean if you are taking requests.
I have a line drawing of Malabar Jr in the full keel version and the plans for the CB version from Woodenboat (both are in "Fifty Wooden Boats) and if I photograph the pages, I can get a decent quality line drawing of the hull and sail plan. I actually bought the plans for the 30 foot centerboard version from Woodenboat as I have always loved the Alden designs. BTW, I think his Malabar II has the prettiest sheer of all time. I'll keep the two 30 foot Malabar Jr's in mind when I have some time.
04-16-2012, 05:04 PM
Old sails may either be cross-cut (panel seams 90 degrees to the leech edge) vertically cut (panel seams parallel to the leech edge) or a couple variations of mitre cuts (usually panel seams 90 degrees to the leech and foot edges, or sometimes Scotch-Mitred with panel seams parallel to the leech and foot edges). The oldest tend to be vertical cuts (squaresails, spritsails, gaff sails, lugsails, etc.) and there was a gradual transition to cross-cuts because in cotton, it made for a smoother shape. Vertical seams that stretched less than the surrounding cloth tended to make a bit of a washboard effect, disturbing airflow over the sail. I don't know the exact timeline, but most classic designs could use either type, though recreational boats and fancy old racing boats tend to be seen more often with cross-cut sails.
Panel width is seldom more than 26", even on big yachts, as the frequent seams and false seams (fabric folded back in a "Z" cross section - looks like a seam, but there is no break in the actual cloth) helped to control cloth stretch. Smaller boats might have seams as close as 8"-10" for stretch control on light cotton if it was a premium sail. Which width to make the panels was up to the sailmaker, the cloth widths available and the budget of the customer.
This is a vertically cut gaff main with a vertically-cut, reefable boomed jib. In order to reef a jib like this, the jib snaps below the reef have to be mounted on a jack line. This would allow the snaps to stay on the wire, but be eased away from the luff, allowing the reef tack corner to move forward, up to the stay.
This one has a cross-cut Gaff main and foresail, with mitre-cut head and topsails. The forestaysail is club-boomed, but roller furling as the club will stand on end as the sail furls. The jib furls on the stay, the fore-topsail is free-flying and unstayed.
As you can see, trying to get this all to work can involve just a few measurements and calculations.
04-16-2012, 06:47 PM
That's great Rod. I had the pleasure of going aboard a Jr. for sale not too far from here a week ago- the full keel in cutter/sloop configuration. What a lovely shape. That's one of those boats that kind of haunts you. Somehow delicate and powerful, elegant and useful- just lovely. Thanks for keeping it in mind.
Thanks for the input... Since morning I talked to an experienced sailmaker and was told as you say... either vertical or cross cut during the period... without a clear time frame when folks switched because many traditionalists stuck with the vertical layout. Even today, he says many of his customers demand vertical cut sails to stay true to the style of their original sails.
How about some comments on the orientation of the panels in the tops'l? I copied what I found on the Bray site... Would a mitered tops'l be appropriate??
I appreciate your input.
04-17-2012, 12:06 AM
here's a couple of pics of Plover that I believe is based on Amos Brown. She's a little bit longer at 24'10" a little bit deeper in the keel and ketch rigged
04-17-2012, 12:30 AM
That's actually the jib and the clubbed one behind it would be a forestaysail. The orientation between the panel seams and leech looks closer to correct, though I can't draw on this computer to check it exactly. A mitre-cut would work better from a sailmaking perspective. Notice that as a cross-cut sail, the panels and their weave striking the foot edge are doing so at a really steep bias angle. That edge would tend to stretch like crazy in use. Roping the foot might help prevent it to an extent, but even so, the foot would probably stretch out pretty quickly and not come back. The mitre-cut would be putting the weave of the lower section square to stress along the foot between the tack and clew corners and be drastically more stretch resistant, especially on a cotton sail. Same thing with the forestaysail, though the clubbed foot would probably hold up a little better than the jib's free-flying foot. The weave follows the seams and in this photo you can see how the weave of the miter-cut jib is oriented square to the leech and foot edges to best resist stretching out.
You will also often find the lowest panel of a cross-cut sail split vertically into two or three pieces, especially on headsails. This isn't because the sailmaker ran out of big hunks of fabric, it's to incorporate some shaping seams into the bottom of the sail. Here is a cross-cut jib. The vertical seam on the lowest panel is actually a broadseam. The overlap of the fabric pieces slowly widens as you get closer to the foot edge at the bottom of the sail. This gives the bottom a little bit of cup-shape and firms up the foot round to eliminate flapping.
There are all sorts of possible headsail profiles and which cut is easiest and best to build just depends on the angles present, but usually if you find a situation where an edge either has the fabric on a steep bias (like your jib) or where it has no shaping seams to work with (like your forestaysail) there may be a better way to cut it, and on traditional boats a miter is probably the best choice (and good looking).
If you have enough shaping seams present at the edges, you can get pretty decent sailshape even with no wind, the sail hung from a tree and staked to the ground with screwdrivers. Without them, the sail would be pretty flat. Here are a cross-cut main and a mitred jib. The telltales are hanging limp, but both sails have plenty of shape-abe, broadseam-able panel seams along their luffs, leeches and foot edges and you can actually see the draft in the sails.
These days, I probably cut 60% of the sails I build vertically. This is partly because it's more traditional for lugsails and spritsails (which I build a lot of) but also because modern fabric is much more stable than the old cotton cloth. We really don't have to worry much about the washboard problem on verticals with modern Dacron.
OK, finally heres the Atkin "Amos Brown with the sailplan correct... Boat season has started in ernest and I have been very busy with boat repairs. ...Todd, I went with the crosscut jibs... most likely the most common at the time... and I learned some headsails are difficult to get a good pattern for miter cut sails. I'll mess with it later.
I have developed a system of developing each design in layers in Photoshop so that each sail has a layer for color and a layer for the seams. If every different color is on a separate layer, its very easy to make changes and improve the overall colorization. Sail colors are also gradients to offer some semblance of shape. Photos of each type of wood were used to "paste into" the selections of the mast and other spars, bowsprit, etc. I actually did the both over from scratch because I have figured out better ways to produce the effects I want.
I like Amos Brown so much that I will probably order a print from Mpix.com to admire her... also Sjogin III is lovely too.
"AMOS BROWN" BY JOHN ATKIN
I also completed Sjogin III, the trailerable 19 foot version of "SJOGIN"... by Paul Gartside. Now the sail seams are more correct.
More to come as I have time...
05-16-2012, 01:57 AM
I think they both came out beautifully, Rod. Now that'd be a nice framed picture for the shop to keep you motivated.
Definitely frame material, nice work.
I did mine a few years back (see avatar) but not a touch on your colouring.
05-16-2012, 08:16 AM
You certainly have the touch Rod!
05-16-2012, 04:31 PM
Amos Brown certainly is lovely. Thanks for posting that! What software did you use to produce these drawings?
Amos Brown reminds me of an Atkin boat I hope to build someday: A "Wild Onion" hull, with its nicer sheer and V-bottom
But with the gaff-sloop sail plan from "Red Onion"
I've got the plans and hope to build it one day if ever I am in a position where I don't have to launch and retrieve every time I go sailing.
I use CS5 Photoshop, but you can use any version of the real Photoshop to do this simple stuff. You need a clean sharp line drawing of the design first and in your case it would be easy copy and paste the sailplan you want on the other boat. If you can supply me with a decent line drawing (digitized) say... 8X12 @ 300 dpi... I wouldn't mind doing this for you ...you can even suggest some colors. I would do it when I had time and you could make any changes to the drawings before colorization.
This process is not difficult in Photoshop for anyone who has a basic working knowledge of Photoshop... like selections, layers, color gradient, etc...
05-17-2012, 11:05 AM
I was mostly curious whether your illustrations were the product of a boat-design software or a graphic software. In hindsight, I should have recognized the Atkin-produced drawing.
While I have the plans, and a very good flatbed scanner, I doubt any of the views on the plan sheets are small enough to fit the bed of my scanner, about 9 X 12. In any event, I posted those images more as a compliment to your good taste in sailboats. :)
To me, there has always been something very alluring about Atkin designs. Somehow, they seem to look just the way a boat should look. They all seem so “right.”
If I lived on or near deep water, Amos Brown, would certainly be of personal interest to me as a build project. Lovely! And your illustration brings her alive.
Well, heres Atkin's BENBOW....
I was checking out photos of boats on the Atkin site... and a couple of Eric had a similar sail color as here... I guess it doesn't matter... I also left the hull white as it was most common.
I have complete lines and profiles of Alden's Malabar Jr CB model from Woodenboat and also I think I have Talesin and of course The original Sjogin.
05-23-2012, 01:03 AM
Surely competition for Anne Bray.
Ok, heres Crocker's design #100 "Sea Dawn" a design published in "Rudder" Magazine for the "folks". This 34 footer was designed for a bit easier construction and had several sail plans offered... the cutter was my favorite. This was a centerboard design. I actually got the pdf files for this set of plans a long time ago but I do have the book on Crocker's designs. I guess the gaff cutter sail plan is my favorite... especially with a top sail. This design, by Sam Crocker has as prettiest a gaff cutter sail plan I have seen and I love the spoon bow. I think he worked for Alden at some point, and I love his designs.
Steve... Thanks but... Anne Bray is an artist and draws in all kinds of shape in her drawings... She does fantastic work that is very accurate and well done. I'm just playing around with Photoshop.
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