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View Full Version : I agree being a stay at home mom CAN be hard work.



ChaseKenyon
04-12-2012, 10:04 PM
I also have direct experience with the trauma of loosing physical control and ability similar to Ann Romney's form of MS. It makes you desperate to do any kind of physical activity that you get so engrossed in that you brain forgets the pain. Even if just for minutes maybe even an hour or two a week or four times a month.

So forgive me my hope to get out on the slopes again where I have Olympic level muscle memory.

For Ann it was Dressage an very difficult form of horse and rider Ballet.

So back to Ann Romney.

A day ticket at the local destination ski area is $56 mid week. My skis and such cost $450 on pro form as an active certified instructor are ten years old and my Snow Board is 13 years old.


So I have a hard time equating a stay at home mom similarly desperate for physical activity being so outraged about someone saying something about her not working at a job.

Most of us could not afford the maintenance of one dressage horse let alone support other riders and multiple horses and owning such beautiful animals that are often like race horses worth up to a million or more..

Riding and training horses fo dressage is such hard family raising at home mom work.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_296w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/03/07/Style/Images/AnnRomney_6ACRES5-0415_(c)TerriMiller.jpgr<

Paul Pless
04-12-2012, 10:11 PM
So I have a hard time equating a stay at home mom similarly desperate for physical activity being so outraged about someone saying something about her not working at a job.

These were Ann Romney's comments. I'm not getting a whole lot of outrage, she actually seems pretty matter of fact. . .


“I made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. Believe me, it was hard work.”

ccmanuals
04-12-2012, 10:15 PM
Having to manage the staff is not easy. Let's at least give her some credit for that. ;)

WASHINGTON -- For a woman with three houses and sixteen grandkids, Ann Romney doesn't have very much help around the house, according to her 2010 tax return.
IRS forms released Tuesday by Mitt Romney's presidential campaign show that despite reporting income of $21.7 million, the couple paid only $20,603 in taxable wages for household help in 2010. This figure was divided among four women: Rosania Costa ($4,808), Kelli Harrison ($8,667), Susan Moore ($2,238) and Valerie Cravens Anae ($4,890).
According to a number of Boston-based domestic staffing agencies, the salary range for a housekeeper is between $20 and $30 an hour, which adds up to an annual salary of $40,000 to $50,000 based on forty-hour weeks and two weeks of paid vacation a year.
But this number is only for one house, and the Romneys have three houses -- a 2,000 sq. ft. townhouse in Belmont, Mass., a 5,400 sq. ft. lake house on 11 acres in Wolfeboro, N.H., and a beach house in La Jolla, Calif., that is undergoing renovations to double its size.
Even if the Romneys avoided spending time in La Jolla in 2010, they spent plenty of time in New Hampshire, with regular visits in the summer from five sons and their families.
Yet the Romneys still paid only half of the lowest range of an average housekeeper's salary, which raises the question of who cleaned the Romney houses the other 50 percent of the time. A Romney campaign adviser declined to respond to questions from The Huffington Post about the housekeeping salaries.
Wouldn't it be nice to learn that the Romneys split up household cleaning between them on days when the housekeeper was out? After all, Mitt Romney was "unemployed" in 2010, as he infamously reminded a group of voters in Tampa, so he had some extra time. And Mitt even knows how to do laundry, according to a photo tweeted Monday by his son Tagg Romney.
The more worrisome alternative is that the Romneys underpaid their household help.
The Massachusetts Coalition of Domestic Workers holds a meeting on the third Tuesday of every month to work towards passage of a statewide Bill of Rights for domestic workers, but so far their efforts have fallen short.
UPDATE: 5:27 p.m. -- At least one of the four women paid for domestic work by the Romney family in 2010 also worked as chief of staff to the executive director of Mitt Romney's Free and Strong America PAC at the same time.
Kelli Harrison was paid wages of $8,667 by the Romneys for personal assistant-type tasks and errands, said a source with knowledge of the situation. Harrison was the most highly paid of the four women listed as domestic employees of the Romney family, and the other three women did not work for the Romney PAC at all, the source confirmed. Harrison was paid for her PAC work with PAC funds.
The designation of household employees is broad, and can include housekeepers, baby-sitters, personal assistants and other house-related tasks. It's possible that the Romney's hired an outside cleaning service to clean their houses and that managed the payroll, but the campaign declined to elaborate on their arrangement. Given the private nature of jobs like these, most high-profile individuals prefer to maintain their own staffs of people who know them well and who they trust.
Another employee, Valerie Cravens Anae, may be the same woman whose Facebook profile indicates that she attended the Mormon-affiliated Brigham Young University. Anae was paid $4,890 in taxable wages for domestic work at the Romney house in 2010.
The campaign declined to specify whether Harrison was still working for the Romney family personally. The other two women listed as domestic employees, Susan Moore and Rosania Costa, could not be located.

SaltyBoatr
04-13-2012, 09:15 AM
“I made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. Believe me, it was hard work.”

Yes, certainly true. Though, made a little bit easier, owning two Cadillac cars.

Contrast that with the typical mother: A waitress in a diner in some place in the midwest who has two kids whose day care funding is being cut off because of the Romney-Ryan budget and worried about losing health insurance coverage recently gained through Obamacare in 2010 (previously denied) for her child's 'pre-existing' illness.

BrianW
04-13-2012, 10:05 AM
Sounds to me, like the Romneys are good for the economy.

Trickle down in action.

ljb5
04-13-2012, 10:40 AM
“I made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. Believe me, it was hard work.”

I have no doubt that it was hard work... but the relevant factor here is that she had a choice whilst so many others have nothing but necessity.

I don't begrude Mrs. Romney for her money or lifestyle, but it seems unlikely that she can truly comprehend how different, and desperate, it is for so many.

Paul Pless
04-13-2012, 10:43 AM
I have no doubt that it was hard work... but the relevant factor here is that she had a choice whilst so many others have nothing but necessity.

I don't begrude Mrs. Romney for her money or lifestyle, but it seems unlikely that she can truly comprehend how different, and desperate, it is for so many.

I agree. I was merely pointing out that Ann didn't seem to be 'outraged', instead she was quite matter of fact about it. Actually kinda seems as if the left is backing away from the perceived slight faster than the right is upset about it. . .

SaltyBoatr
04-13-2012, 10:49 AM
Working class mothers know how important public transportation is to their lives. (For those that don't have two Cadillacs.) The GOP opposition to government spending on public transportation is a "woman's issue", explaining part of the GOP gender gap.

ljb5
04-13-2012, 11:18 AM
I agree. I was merely pointing out that Ann didn't seem to be 'outraged', instead she was quite matter of fact about it. Actually kinda seems as if the left is backing away from the perceived slight faster than the right is upset about it. . .

Mrs. Romeny might not be upset about it, but there are quite a few on the right who are 'outraged' about this... or at least acting outraged.

Sometimes, I suspect that they're getting paid to pretend to be outraged... but I'm sure that sort of thing wouldn't happen in our modern system, right?

Paul Pless
04-13-2012, 11:22 AM
:d ...

Arizona Bay
04-13-2012, 11:28 AM
Rmoney

Competence matters.
fify

brad9798
04-13-2012, 11:36 AM
CLASSIC, Donn!!! ROTFLMBO!

I pay a nice Bosnian lady 75 bucks a week to clean my home ... no laundry or dishes ... just cleaning. When we started out 15 years ago, it was 40 bucks a week ...

I am happy with the arrangement ... so is she ... and I have never tagged her with a 1099. NEVER. CASH is STILL KING! But then again, I am not nearly as high-profile as the Romneys ... ;)

brad9798
04-13-2012, 11:52 AM
Smitty- 'working class mothers' is not the same thing as mothers who work ... just saying. And NO, I am not a SaltyBoatr fan ... not at all ...

Certainly, sir, you can see there is a difference, correct?

B

SaltyBoatr
04-13-2012, 11:54 AM
My wife works. She has never used public transportation to get to work in her life. What exactly is your definition of "working class mothers"? We don't have 2 Cadillacs either.

Take a bus sometime. Look around, those are working class people.

And, women make less money than men on average, hence, less able to afford a car to get around.

Mitt Romney and the GOP opposes funding for public transportation. Simple fact.

bobbys
04-13-2012, 12:08 PM
I know nothing about horse es, In fact im scared of them.

My boy bought a small 2 acre farm which was used for horse.

The road is filled with country chicks with horse's riding up and down.

These goils drive old trucks and have hardly any money but have a passion for horse's.

I notice the horses leave big piles of poo in the middle of the road which splatter when i run them over.

At any rate a Woman can be rich or poor but still manage to have and love a horse.

I notice the goils all wear the same brand of blue jeans..

However my wife would dress up like Anns pic with jodphers {see i asked her her what the pants are called}

Paul Pless
04-13-2012, 12:14 PM
Take a bus sometime. Look around, those are working class people.

And, women make less money than men on average, hence, less able to afford a car to get around.

So you agree with Ann Romney then? That women are concerned about the economy. . .

Where do you stand on her statement?

SaltyBoatr
04-13-2012, 01:21 PM
So you agree with Ann Romney then? That women are concerned about the economy. . .

Where do you stand on her statement?

To which Ann Romney statement do you refer? Her support for the Lilly Ledbetter Act? (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2012/0412/Lilly-Ledbetter-and-Ann-Romney-Gone-in-six-seconds) (Oh, she glorifies unpaid women's work, right?)

Paul Pless
04-13-2012, 01:23 PM
To which Ann Romney statement do you refer? Its impossible for you to answer a straight question, eh?

SaltyBoatr
04-13-2012, 01:25 PM
Its impossible for you to answer a straight question, eh?

Seriously, which Ann Romney statement are you asking me about? Tell me, and I can answer you.

Paul Pless
04-13-2012, 01:34 PM
Paul...please refrain from quoting the troll.

Thanks.rofl

Todd D
04-13-2012, 04:03 PM
They may not have paid much (by their standards) directly to domestic help. However, if they hired a full time house keeping service, they would have been paying bills, not salaries and it wouldn't show up on their tax forms unless they were using the properties to generate income and deducted the housekeeping costs.

ljb5
04-13-2012, 04:47 PM
They may not have paid much (by their standards) directly to domestic help. However, if they hired a full time house keeping service, they would have been paying bills, not salaries and it wouldn't show up on their tax forms unless they were using the properties to generate income and deducted the housekeeping costs.

We had a lengthy discussion about this when the same issue was brought up about John Kerry.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/archive/index.php/t-41026.html

SaltyBoatr
04-13-2012, 05:11 PM
So you agree with Ann Romney then? That women are concerned about the economy. . .

Where do you stand on her statement?

Its impossible for you to answer a straight question, eh?

It looks like Paul is silent on this.

Anyway "her statement" was actually Mitt Romney's statement made last week when questioned about his gender gap problem. Mitt Romney said:


“My wife has the occasion, as you know, to campaign on her own and also with me, and she reports to me regularly that the issue women care about most is the economy.”


So, now that I have figured it out, answering Paul's malformed question: Yes, I agree that the issue women care most about is the economy.

I also agree with Hilary Rosen, "[that Ann Romney has] never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing in terms of how do we feed our kids, how do we send them to school, and how do we -- why we worry about their future. "

Tom Montgomery
04-13-2012, 05:15 PM
I have no doubt that it was hard work... but the relevant factor here is that she had a choice whilst so many others have nothing but necessity.

I don't begrude Mrs. Romney for her money or lifestyle, but it seems unlikely that she can truly comprehend how different, and desperate, it is for so many.

Correct. And that was the point, wasn't it?

Mitt insists that his wife is his #1 advisor on women's issues. That makes Ann fair game regarding her adult experience and whether that experience has prepared her to relate to most American women.

Mitt opened the door.

ljb5
04-13-2012, 05:39 PM
Mitt insists that his wife is his #1 advisor on women's issues. That makes Ann fair game regarding her adult experience and whether that experience has prepared her to relate to most American women.

I think the real take-away message here is that Mitt doesn't actually have an advisor on women's issues.

He certainly hasn't put any effort into finding one who is going to tell him stuff he doesn't already know.

Indeed, I suspect Mrs. isn't really his advisor... just the first name that popped into his mind when pressed.

And did she actually give him any advice?.. or did he just assume that her advice was going to be about...um.... whatever he wanted to talk about anyway.

wardd
04-13-2012, 05:39 PM
So you agree with Ann Romney then? That women are concerned about the economy. . .

Where do you stand on her statement?

of course the economy is one of the concerns of working moms, it's just not a concern ann shares with them

and i bet ann wasn't a normal stay at home but a stay at home supervising mom, somebody has to give orders to the household staff

because being a mom is had work so having housemaids and cooks helps

SaltyBoatr
04-13-2012, 05:48 PM
I think the real take-away message here is that Mitt doesn't actually have an advisor on women's issues.

Bingo.

And the GOP wonders why they have a gender gap problem.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/imgs/home/120216-what-a-gop-hearing-on-contraception-looks-like.jpg

SaltyBoatr
04-13-2012, 05:51 PM
...having housemaids and cooks helps

In fairness, it doesn't look like Ann Romney had housemaids and cooks. Also in fairness, neither did she have to worry about the public bus being late while working two jobs, or scraping together money for childcare, or figuring out how to pay for the doctor when her health insurance was denied due to 'pre-existing' conditions of her child.

LeeG
04-13-2012, 06:25 PM
I know nothing about horse es, In fact im scared of them.

My boy bought a small 2 acre farm which was used for horse.

The road is filled with country chicks with horse's riding up and down.

These goils drive old trucks and have hardly any money but have a passion for horse's.

I notice the horses leave big piles of poo in the middle of the road which splatter when i run them over.

At any rate a Woman can be rich or poor but still manage to have and love a horse.

I notice the goils all wear the same brand of blue jeans..

However my wife would dress up like Anns pic with jodphers {see i asked her her what the pants are called}

my brothers ex did dressage, she looked good in them thar pants.

LeeG
04-13-2012, 06:28 PM
I think the real take-away message here is that Mitt doesn't actually have an advisor on women's issues.

He certainly hasn't put any effort into finding one who is going to tell him stuff he doesn't already know.

Indeed, I suspect Mrs. isn't really his advisor... just the first name that popped into his mind when pressed.

And did she actually give him any advice?.. or did he just assume that her advice was going to be about...um.... whatever he wanted to talk about anyway.

yup

brad9798
04-13-2012, 06:57 PM
YUP leeG and ljb ... wives are useless and stupid, right? At the very least, they are not qualified to comment on women's issues ...

AGREE COMPLETELY! :rolleyes:

Meli
04-13-2012, 07:12 PM
YUP leeG and ljb ... wives are useless and stupid, right? At the very least, they are not qualified to comment on women's issues ...

AGREE COMPLETELY! :rolleyes:

Brad, wives or husbands for that matter ARE NOT QUALIFIED to advise the POTUS or the leader of any country on Mens Issues, womens issues or the economy, the military or even Diplomatic protocols da dadada da.

The spouse of a leader may of course tell them what they think about stuff but unless they are attached to govt in some official advisory capacity they are not qualified to comment.

Romney NEEDS a formal advisor on womens affairs, preferably one with better qualifications than "I raised 5 kids"

brad9798
04-13-2012, 07:27 PM
Why is that, Meli ... you think wives are inadequate with regard to advising? THAT surprises me ... That shows that you have been brainwashed by the system, as well. :(

Paul Pless
04-13-2012, 07:41 PM
Brad, wives or husbands for that matter ARE NOT QUALIFIED to advise the POTUS or the leader of any country on Mens Issues, womens issues or the economy, the military or even Diplomatic protocols da dadada da.

You are sorely mistaken. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Michelle_Obama_official_portrait_headshot.jpg This first lady is as well educated as her husband and her work experience at public policy is at least the equal of her husbands until he became a Senator.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbYaTULCF8372IqHsi586NFQRkjxw4e ycu5lP4ikVeQb6TtIKo

Betty Ford is another example of a fine first lady that was a strong advocate for equal rights for women, stood publicly for legalized abortion, and had an open dialogue on both mental health and women's health issues.

Meli you might google Eleanor Roosevelt to educate yourself on our most influential first lady.

ChaseKenyon
04-13-2012, 07:52 PM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by ljb5http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=3378066#post3378066)I think the real take-away message here is that Mitt doesn't actually have an advisor on women's issues.

He certainly hasn't put any effort into finding one who is going to tell him stuff he doesn't already know.

Indeed, I suspect Mrs. isn't really his advisor... just the first name that popped into his mind when pressed.


And did she actually give him any advice?.. or did he just assume that her advice was going to be about...um.... whatever he wanted to talk about anyway.


Many of you know I attended CSU Ft. Collins and spent a fair amount of time in CO,WYO, and UT. I often worked side by side with Mormons male and sometimes (rarely) female.

It is my personal experience that Mormon wives only have an opinion on anything when it is given to them by their husband either in advance or in retrospect of situations. In addition the different multiple wives of a Mormon family head may be given different opinions by their master, oops , husband on any given subject.r<

Paul Pless
04-13-2012, 08:02 PM
Chase, that's quite an ignorant post.

bobbys
04-13-2012, 08:15 PM
Chase never met my Mormon Sister in law, She has not shut up since i met her.

brad9798
04-13-2012, 08:24 PM
Thanks for that, PPless ... I totally agree ... :)

Meli
04-13-2012, 08:42 PM
You are sorely mistaken. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Michelle_Obama_official_portrait_headshot.jpg This first lady is as well educated as her husband and her work experience at public policy is at least the equal of her husbands until he became a Senator.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbYaTULCF8372IqHsi586NFQRkjxw4e ycu5lP4ikVeQb6TtIKo

Betty Ford is another example of a fine first lady that was a strong advocate for equal rights for women, stood publicly for legalized abortion, and had an open dialogue on both mental health and women's health issues.

Meli you might google Eleanor Roosevelt to educate yourself on our most influential first lady.

Spouses may well take up positions in NGO's depending on their level of involvement they may well have experience that entitles them to input at an official capacity.

Hilary clinton, michelle obama etc are involved and educated women.

I dont see what Ms Romneys recognised qualification is to advise the POTUS on the economy OR Womens affairs other than as a woman among millions with less experience than 99% of us.

Here's Wiki on Ann.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Romney

Search as I might, i see no notable education or Experience. Gawd help us, I've worked with Charites. It's what some reasonably well off stay at home mums do to justify their down time when the kids are at school.
Some play tennis or play with horses too.

I have no problem with the woman per say, but PULEEZ keep her out of official office or you'll be back to "nice" women assisting those less unfortunate into "good" service positions. and providing 2 baggy dresses per year.:rolleyes:

skipper68
04-13-2012, 09:36 PM
Thank you Chase. WORD.

skipper68
04-13-2012, 09:40 PM
I HATE men trying to grow a uterus.we have 9 kids. MY CHOICE,with adopted.

skipper68
04-13-2012, 09:46 PM
Meli, they will have 12yr old girls giving birth. GOD will care for them. UGH>>>>>>.........till they are here. THEN they will walk away, and make MORE have baby's.They cant care for.OK.

skipper68
04-13-2012, 09:52 PM
Different Country's have different rules.True.

ChaseKenyon
04-13-2012, 10:01 PM
Chase, that's quite an ignorant post.


The post refered to :

Many of you know I attended CSU Ft. Collins and spent a fair amount of time in CO,WYO, and UT. I often worked side by side with Mormons male and sometimes (rarely) female.

It is my personal experience that Mormon wives only have an opinion on anything when it is given to them by their husband either in advance or in retrospect of situations. In addition the different multiple wives of a Mormon family head may be given different opinions by their master, oops , husband on any given subject.

Incidentally, the last highlighted section was a winter caretaker at a dude ranch's high altitude camp/ranch up near the top ( 8,000 to 12,000 ft. plus altitude) of the Red Feather Lakes District in CO.


Red Feather Lakes, located just north of the Poudre River, is surrounded by Roosevelt National Forest with sparkling steams, lush mountain meadows and stately peaks. The area was first settled around 1900 by loggers and ranchers, and occasionally a deserted homestead can be seen at the edge of a meadow or half hidden in the Aspen and pine forests. Visitors will enjoy Red Feather Lakes' quaint shops, fun restaurants, and unrivaled old-fashioned hospitality.


The North Park area, including Gould, Rand and Walden is nestled in a valley at 8,000 feet, surrounded by mountains reaching above 12,000 feet. North Park offers a variety of year-round recreation, including hiking, fishing, hunting, camping, 4x4 trails, boating, cross-country skiing, snowmobiling, ice fishing and bird watching. Several old ghost towns and the sand dunes can also be enjoyed. The area is surrounded on three sides by National Forest and on the fourth side by State Forest. The National Forest include four wilderness areas, comprising approximately 75,550 acres, plus the Arapahoe Wildlife Refuge.When I was there much of it was only reachable on horseback, even built up 4X4s could not go there for mos tof the year.
.

How can you label my post about what I witnessed whether or not typical, as ignorant????

That is like saying your posts about something that actually happened to you in a boat are "ignorant"


I have never on any forum on any subject matter had someone make such a personal attack on me and my life and life's work.

Are you attacking me and my honesty? I have walked from four jobs and been fired from one for being unwilling to lie to the customer as part of my job. What are your bonafides?
Besides a holier than you attitude based on your post count.

Personally I would prefer to keep all my posts respectful and above board and non judgmental of anyone.

To comply with the the rules your post has established........


Remember this, 1 lb of Bison flank is a good feed, 20 lbs of garbage is is still garbage even if part of your
34,690 lbs of postings.


If I acted in your manner for my posts we have a whole lot of "Hurt" floating around the whole forum. If I ever decide to go after someone I can follow them above decks and make them look foolish and send them out of control with rage. Thats just not my thing.

But when you label my personal experience when I was a CSU AstroPhysics major admittedly back in late 60s to early 70s as "Ignorant",
I am tempted to make an exception in your case.


If you apologize I will accept that and just keep an eye of distrust watching you on all the forum sections.

Or you can hire 20 people to watch your back for you, here and elsewhere as I will consider making a fool out of you everywhere on line my full time job.


Your choice sir.

ChaseKenyon
04-13-2012, 10:06 PM
chase never met my mormon sister in law, she has not shut up since i met her.
rotflmao

Shang
04-13-2012, 10:08 PM
Yep, just a mom at home with five homes.

Paul Pless
04-13-2012, 10:09 PM
Your experience is rather limited. My experience with Mormon women is the exact opposite. So what do we conclude from our combined experiences, as it relates to Ann Romney, a woman that converted to Mormonism in her late teens? Do you really believe that Mitt keeps her in the dark and uniformed.

Shang
04-13-2012, 10:18 PM
Romney is a multimillionaire, who is lying about presenting himself in blue jean.
Why are you considering Romney's multimilliondollars
against your income without comparing those to his?

skipper68
04-13-2012, 10:19 PM
YUP!Every woman tries to balance. NOT ONE WOMAN HAS HAD A PAYMENT TO SS. Mommy first. 13 years without my retirement. I have my kids, yet no retirement $$. Fix that? LOL.;) YAA Right. Get a clue.

Meli
04-13-2012, 10:23 PM
Well said Skippy!!

ChaseKenyon
04-13-2012, 10:58 PM
Your experience is rather limited. My experience with Mormon women is the exact opposite. So what do we conclude from our combined experiences, as it relates to Ann Romney, a woman that converted to Mormonism in her late teens? Do you really believe that Mitt keeps her in the dark and uniformed.


I still have several copies of the "book of Mormon" here that I accepted to "keep the peace" with coworkers. Most of my experience was with Mormons in the extreme rural and non 4X4 for 9 months of the year locations in the tristate area. I'd say that knowing and or working with some 200 or more Mormons as they operate when the don't have to fit in to a non Mormon society is very telling of their true attitudes. I was there when in 1970 the Brigham Young U basketball team caused a major riot on the CSU campus.


The '60s and early '70s:
Activism makes for turbulent times at Colorado State

Despite its agrarian roots and predominantly conservative attitudes, Colorado State became the scene of intense student activism during the 1960s and early 1970s.


In January 1970, students held a peaceful demonstration before the start of a Colorado State-Brigham Young University basketball to protest alleged racist practices of the Mormon Church. However, protesters stormed the gym floor during halftime and raised the "black power" salute. Fighting, hurled objects and the detachment of a police riot squad ensued, and a climate of tension pervaded campus for the remainder of the year. The riot was actually started by BYU fans in the stands in the southeast section. I was there, stationed at the south southeast door set. We of the wrestlling team as trained in our found by the school local bar bouncer jobs were used by the CP as door guards/bouncers at most of the big events at the "Turtle"

http://www.colostate.edu/features/history-11.aspx.

BYU caused more trouble and bad situation in the tristate area than all the rest of the colleges and universities combined.



Your experience is rather limited

Still using your post count to justify your passing judgment on others.


Even to declare yours as a greater experience of enough to justify you passing judgement in advance as greater than someone else's?

Without even any knowledge of their experience you declare your's as greater.

Enough greater to justify your passing judgemet on theirs?




Where were you in 1970? How much time have you spent in Mormon countrolled rural country? Have you ever been to Salt Lake City?

Who do you think you are to pass judgment on whether the posts of others here on the forum are Ignorant posts or not?


Passing judgement on any post not your's here on the forum is more than a little bit arrogant.

An arrogance that typically proves someones actual lack of experience with the topic.

Comes from the attack what you are and am in others first so you get in before they do Paul Rove school of modus operandi.

Or at minimum, a Marilyn Vos Savant I know more than you about everything kind of attitude.

And yes I have read the "Book of Mormon" and other texts about the faith to better understand where the heck they were coming from.

Have you?

How many Mormons have you worked with?

How much time have you spent with Mormons?

How much time have you spent in Mormon controlled territory or towns?

How much time have you spent with Mormons in Mormon territory?

Or are you just preemptively posting your limited and or non factual experience and resulting opinions as fact and then passing out summary judgment that your opinion from such is worth more than other peoples facts?

How familiar are you with the Mormon Mexican exodus?

How familiar are you with the Mormon "elders councils"?

How familiar are you with the operation and power of Mormon Bishops?

What a totally doltish to my mind way of conducting one's self in public.

r

skipper68
04-13-2012, 11:59 PM
WOW!Not a Mormon, but a stay at home mom for years. Mormons don"t pay into any programs, of the USA. The Mother is taken in, with her children, by a male relative.I think. Brother, Father....cousin..this is true? Kind of like a horse or a UGH-cow?Passed on to the next male.No say.

Paul Pless
04-14-2012, 06:32 AM
l

Still using your post count to justify your passing judgment on others.


Even to declare yours as a greater experience of enough to justify you passing judgement in advance as greater than someone else's?

Without even any knowledge of their experience you declare your's as greater.

Enough greater to justify your passing judgemet on theirs?




Where were you in 1970? How much time have you spent in Mormon countrolled rural country? Have you ever been to Salt Lake City?

Who do you think you are to pass judgment on whether the posts of others here on the forum are Ignorant posts or not?


Passing judgement on any post not your's here on the forum is more than a little bit arrogant.

An arrogance that typically proves someones actual lack of experience with the topic.

Comes from the attack what you are and am in others first so you get in before they do Paul Rove school of modus operandi.

Or at minimum, a Marilyn Vos Savant I know more than you about everything kind of attitude.

And yes I have read the "Book of Mormon" and other texts about the faith to better understand where the heck they were coming from.

Have you?

How many Mormons have you worked with?

How much time have you spent with Mormons?

How much time have you spent in Mormon controlled territory or towns?

How much time have you spent with Mormons in Mormon territory?

Or are you just preemptively posting your limited and or non factual experience and resulting opinions as fact and then passing out summary judgment that your opinion from such is worth more than other peoples facts?

How familiar are you with the Mormon Mexican exodus?

How familiar are you with the Mormon "elders councils"?

How familiar are you with the operation and power of Mormon Bishops?

What a totally doltish to my mind way of conducting one's self in public.

r

fart = my post count has little to do with anything Chase


Perhaps ignorant was a poor choice of words. What I saw from your post and from this thread is an indirect attack on Ann Romney based on her affiliation with the Mormon church. You, and other 'elitists' here are saying that this 'group' of people keep their women in the dark. May i remind you that your experience as you posted is forty years old and seems possibly colored by prejudice.

And what I posted exactly, is that your experience and mine were at odds.

FWIW, yes I have read the Book of Mormon. I found it ridiculous. I have a well educated Mormon woman that has worked for me for twelve years as my lead research tech. My corporate tax attorney since 1992 is a Mormon. he was my mom's attorney prior to that. Our families are very close. I know his wife and five daughters well. They are not ignorant. I know the headmaster of one of my hometown's elite private schools well. She is a Mormon, with a phd - definitely not ignorant. So I do have a little experience certainly not as great as your vaunted days out west - but all to the exact opposite of your which surely came off as prejudiced and as it was posted on a hack political thread, I felt compelled to add a little balance.:D