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Paul Girouard
04-06-2012, 08:55 PM
Navy jet crashes into Virginia Beach apartments, pilots eject
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57410559/navy-jet-crashes-into-virginia-beach-apartments/


Did I miss this some where else?

Steve McMahon
04-06-2012, 09:07 PM
Yikes. I saw it on the news. Are your F18s as old as ours are?
The report I saw says they dumped fuel before they ejected, if so, probably saving a lot of lives by preventing what would have otherwise been a much larger inferno.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/04/06/virginia-beach-crash-navy-jet.html

Hopefully the unaccounted for people were away and are not burried in the rubble. It will be amazing if there are no fatalities.

Paul Pless
04-06-2012, 09:36 PM
NPR is reporting no fatalities and only minor injuries. The pilot was supposedly mumbling apologies while being cut dow from the roof of the burning apartment complex by residents.

Paul Girouard
04-06-2012, 09:47 PM
We have newer ones , this one sounded like a trainer , dual seat and they didn't report it was a Growler , so I'm guessing a two pilot seat trainer, making it a older Super Hornet. That's my guess anyway, sounds like a engine , or maybe two as it can land single engine , so maybe a bird strike / FOD'ed motor or two, maybe???

I heard the front seater was a veteran pilot training on new to him equipment , the back seater was a training pilot , but early reports are wildly wrong. I also heard the front seater was a new pilot / not experienced , coming from flight school into the fleet replacement pilot program so what we'd call a "Nugget" a young pilot who hasn't made a cruise yet , so a LTJG type. Rookie.

The Bigfella
04-06-2012, 10:15 PM
Still an amazing aeroplane. A friend of mine (a politician on a 'get to know your military' program) just spent a week on the F-18's in Oz.... low altitude supersonic, 2+2 dogfighting, etc. He loved it. He's also flown onto and off the USN's Reagan in a 6-seater IIRC.

Trusting and hoping all are well from this one....

seanz
04-06-2012, 10:16 PM
NPR is reporting no fatalities and only minor injuries. The pilot was supposedly mumbling apologies while being cut dow from the roof of the burning apartment complex by residents.

Well, you would, wouldn't you?

Hope there's no fatalities, 'course, having your home become a crater will cramp your style for while.....


Here's a question, for when we have a bit more info......if they had time to dump fuel and (not much time by the sound of it) eject, why couldn't they keep the plane away from buildings?

The Bigfella
04-06-2012, 10:39 PM
Control problem perhaps?... Glide like a brick problem too probably

Phillip Allen
04-06-2012, 11:00 PM
a rather ragged report... gotta wait for a better version I guess

Paul Girouard
04-06-2012, 11:01 PM
Well, you would, wouldn't you?

Hope there's no fatalities, 'course, having your home become a crater will cramp your style for while.....


Here's a question, for when we have a bit more info......if they had time to dump fuel and (not much time by the sound of it) eject, why couldn't they keep the plane away from buildings?


Dumping gas is a no brainier , hit the fuel dump switch , then keep scrambling to find a place to crash , it pours out of the tail as you auger in.

I'd guess they went a little above and beyond it attempting to get feet wet ( over water) as they landed in the crash crater, which means to me, they had big problems , lost altitude and air speed very fast , prolly weren't very high when the $hit , or birds, more than likely hit the fan, meaning the turbine fan blades in the intake. I'm guessing a bird strike, sucked a duck / bird down the intake/ FOD the motors.

But back to the above and beyond thing , they have a air speed and a altitude number they go by , if the air speed is "X" and the altitude is "Y" you punch out / eject. Being they landed in the fire they created they either where in the landing pattern , low and slow, and had issues and had zero time to eject . or they knew they where over town and stuck with the jet "LONGER" than the "X" / "Y" numbers added up to.

Around the ship if the snap a wire and dribble off the end of the angle deck they punch out as they slowly roll off the deck and generally land some where on the ship , it's messy that way, as you could land in a intake zone and get sucked up.

So the landing in the fire means one of two things to me.

Paul Girouard
04-07-2012, 09:54 AM
Still no ranks and names but it seems the pilot was a nugget,

At approximately 12:05 p.m., an F/A-18D Hornet from Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 106, based at Naval Air Station (NAS) Oceana crashed into the Mayfair Mews apartment complex in Virginia Beach, Va.

A fleet replacement pilot training on a new aircraft and an experienced instructor pilot were forced to eject when their aircraft suffered a catastrophic mechanical malfunction shortly after takeoff.

Paul Pless
04-07-2012, 09:56 AM
replacement pilot Not exactly an inspiring job title!:D

Hey Paul, do Navy planes carry 'black boxes'?

Paul Girouard
04-07-2012, 10:14 AM
Not an inspiring description!:D

Hey Paul, do Navy planes carry 'black boxes'?

They didn't used to .

The fleet replacement pilot means he's a new pilot, he's been to flight school down in Florida , it least it used to be in Pensacola, Fl. and now he's training on his fleet aircraft. They cull down the pilot 'wanta be's' down in P-cola , if they wash out of the pilot seat they opt into Naval Aviator's seats , EMCO's , REO's , etc. Or what are call NFO's ( Naval Flight Officer). If you ever meet a Naval Aviator you'll know in one minute where he's a pilot or a NFO, he'll tell you. If he's a NFO he'll say "I was a naval aviator, or I flew off carriers" If he uses those terms he's a NFO , if he was a pilot he'll say " I was a navy pilot , or I flew jets" he'll add , some time discreetly, that he was the pilot , the NFO's hedge around , use terms that make it ambiguous as to where they sat in the aircraft. Generally they wash out of the pilot seat due to vision issues , but there's plenty of other reasons I guy wash's out of the pilot seat.

NAVAIR is sort of a weird set-up as a person climbs the rank structure you end up running out of a job, unlike say a commercial pilot who can fly into their 60's a navy pilot has almost no chance of staying in the cockpit after say 40 to 45 years old. Again the up and out thing comes into play , few Navy Captain's have "flying jobs" , so Commander is the last rank that has a limited number of flying jobs , most Commander's are around 40 years old give or take a few years.

Commander's are the Skipper's of the squadron's , it's a three year tour so you'll have two Commander's in rank in each squadron, the CO Commanding Officer and the XO ( Executive Officer) , so not very many flying job exist in NAVAIR for Commander's and above in rank. The few Captain's that have flying jobs are CAG's (Carrier Air Group Commander ) basically one per carrier, so 12 to 13 total navy wide.

ETA: This is not to say that navy Captian's and even some Adrimal's don't keep flying and drawing flight pay , Air station CO would be Captian's in rank and would do some flying and stay current or in a flight status by flying aircraft that are assigned to thier base, I'm sure Adrimal's that where pilot's can find ways to get into the cockpit and do some flying as well. They how ever would not be flying while deployed on a ship , they would limit thier flying to shore based landings and take offs. The only Captian in rank flying off the ship would be CAG, and he'd more than likely be checked out in all his CAG's aircraft , for shore landing and take off , but only be checked out in one type A/C for ship board ops.

Being a Prowler guy our CAG's we're always going to fly with us , but I don't recall one ever actually showing up to go on a flight, all our CAG's where pilot's and they always opted to fly the F-14 , and / or F-4's that where deployed with us. I mean given a choice to fly the F-14 or F-4 , or ride in the right seat as "two hundred pounds of could have been gas" where would you go??:D

seanz
04-07-2012, 05:00 PM
Navy officials said a thorough investigation into the crash could take several weeks. They have not yet listened to the flight recorders onboard the plane, they said.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/6709888/Many-elderly-homeless-after-jet-levels-apartments

It hit an apartment complex that housed the elderly. Still no reports of fatalities.

Same site different article.


"Catastrophic engine system failure right after takeoff, which is always the most critical phase of flying, leaves very, very few options," said aviation safety expert and decorated pilot JF Joseph. "You literally run out of altitude, air speed and ideas all at the same time," he said.

Mad Scientist
04-07-2012, 06:06 PM
The CBC was saying that all persons hwve been accounted for. No fatalaties! That was at 11:46 AM EDT.

For info, 'FOD' is the acronym for Foreign Object Damage', such as sucking birds into your engines.

I looked at the USN info on the F/A-18D. It appears that the the C and D models were the 'second generation' of the type. C - single-seat, D - dual-seat. The latest generation is the 'Super Hornet', F/A-18E and F. E - single-seat, F - dual-seat.

Tom