Butt-joints on every strip??

[kmerr98277]

Would butt-joints on every strip look awful? Even if I alternate the locations of the joints?

[Peerie Maa]

Ooh, Oooh, Oooh. . . . . No, I've no idea what you are using the strips for. :d

[switters]

are you talking about a cedar strip canoe?

[Peerie Maa]

are you talking about a cedar strip canoe?
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?146141-Will-16-ft-strips-cover-a-14-ft-canoe

[kmerr98277]

Yes, a cedar-strip canoe.

[Tim Marchetti]

It really is up to your taste. I think it looks fine, but I always paint the outside and varnish inside.

[Tonyr]

I built a 24 foot power boat with 8 foot cedar strips, so every strip had three or more butt joints. The strips were glued and screwed, and then sanded, coated (epoxy/fibreglass) and painted. Worked fine, and you would never know how anything was done. Boat is several years old, and has been abused. Nothing has moved.

Regards, Tony.

[JimConlin]

If they're staggered, butt joints are structurally OK.
If the boat is to be painted, there's no aesthetic problem with butt joints. I like to clamp butt joints in alignment which is a bit of a pain.
A blunt scarf (say 2:1) looks better to me than a square butt, so I've made a little miter box for cutting them while planking. The miter box sits on top of the setup. Use a dovetail saw or a Japanese trim saw.
If milling and handling strips that are the length of the boat isn't too hard, it probably saves time to scarf up your planking stock to boat-length before slicing into strips.

[wizbang 13]

Y ' know at the boat show, folks will be snickering, behind your back , about the butts.

[MN Dave]

If milling and handling strips that are the length of the boat isn't too hard, it probably saves time to scarf up your planking stock to boat-length before slicing into strips.


If you have good help and enough room, that may be true. Otherwise it is easier to rip shorter planks and scarf strips than it is to scarf and rip 16-18' long planks.

It is easier to strip the canoe with full length strips, and easier to scarf a whole set of strips than you would think. It is harder to describe than do.

1) Stack up 4-6 strips with the ends staggered about 1 1/2 -2", like stairs, starting at the end of a flat softwood board.*
2) Clamp the stack a foot or so from the end. (2 or 3 stacks side by side goes faster.)
3) Plane the stairs to make an even ramp. **
4) Stack, glue and clamp (Titebond is fine) use waxed paper or plastic sheet to separate if you stack 3 or 4 scarfs deep to save time and space
5) Pick each strip up by one end and wiggle it. A few joints might break so you go back to step 1 and scarf them again.
* The bottom strip needs support and the plane will not be damaged when it hits the supporting board
** Imperfect scarf joints disappear when you sand, but but cracks are forever.

Somewhere I read, and wish I had read it sooner, that you should pay attention to the grain before you rip. Ripping flat sawn planks gives you quarter sawn strips, which are easier to fair and look better (OK, I just think they look better). When the grain is going to come out flat, rip square strips, turn them 90 and rip with the grain in the right direction. It is easy(er?) to rip 1 5/8 wide strips and rip them again to 3/4. All the detail takes forever to write and amounts to 'pay attention and adjust as needed'.

And what Art said is good to consider.

[Canoez]

Well, there are lots of ways to deal with that issue.

The first is Tim's method - use butt joints, staggered from course to course of strips, centered on the patterns. Glass the boat and use paint for UV protection on the outside so you don't see the butt joints.

Use the butt joints - as above, but carefully matching strip colors at the joint to camouflage the joints as best as possible - finish the boat "bright" and don't worry about it.

Alternatively, you could use scarf joints on each strip, but that's time consuming - again, matching the color of the strips .

Last but not least, you could plan a design (in strips) for the parts of the boat where the joints are - such as a diamonds, arrows, diagonals or Southwestern Blanket pattern (or patterns..) that is made from deliberately contrasting woods, such as redwood, white pine, poplar, basswood, or even Spanish Cedar. This requires more planning but can be very attractive.

[Gib Etheridge]

It's a matter of personal taste of course, but if you should decide that you want to scarf full length pieces you might try a variation of this process for producing them.


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7059/6904418411_ff03bd11d4.jpg

.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7205/6904416141_ab72a98d97.jpg


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7178/6904417285_9307098307.jpg

[Canoez]

Gib's got the idea for the jig. You could also do that to scarf through two strips at one time to join them. Align face-to-face or back-to-back and cut both strips at the same time if you don't want to see the scarf as a diagonal cut. Be certain that the strip is parallel to the miter saw's table - you'll want to support it outbound from the saw, otherwise, you'll get an unintentional compound miter.

[Bill Huson]

or my method - just slap the butt joints in willy-nilly, actually go for mixed wood shades, and call it Art!

worked on my 9' cedar strip dinghy - winner best of show row category 2010 Wooden Boat Show Beaufort, NC.

[Bob Smalser]

Would butt-joints on every strip look awful?

Yes.

And they complicate fairing. Even the poorest, shortest feather-scarf is better workmanship.

Further, insure you lay out your football and strips so the end result runs parallel with the shear and looks like a real wooden boat...not some kind of short-grain imitation covered with plastic. If you don't know how to do that, ask and we can discus spiling and the use of cheaters.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/323696334.jpg

[Canoez]

Yes.

And they complicate fairing. Even the poorest, shortest feather-scarf is better workmanship.

Further, insure you lay out your football and strips so the end result runs parallel with the shear and looks like a real wooden boat...not some kind of short-grain imitation covered with plastic. If you don't know how to do that, ask and we can discus spiling and the use of cheaters.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/323696334.jpg

The appearance of the butt joints is a matter of taste, certainly, but there isn't a right or wrong answer. In terms of fairing, butt joints shouldn't be problematic. When fairing, you should be starting with a razor sharp plane and using it at an angle to the strips, so you blend them to the hull curve, not lenghtwise down the hull, unless youve got the best vertical grain stock you can find, you may wind up tearing out the grain.

As far as making the strips follow the sheer line of the boat, I wouldn't recommend it for the boat that is being built - a 14' long canoe. Aesthetically, I find that doing this with short boats makes them look "bent" or highly rockered - even if they are not.

[wizbang 13]

Yes.

And they complicate fairing. Even the poorest, shortest feather-scarf is better workmanship.

Further, insure you lay out your football and strips so the end result runs parallel with the shear and looks like a real wooden boat...not some kind of short-grain imitation covered with plastic. If you don't know how to do that, ask and we can discus spiling and the use of cheaters.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/323696334.jpgOMG, what a homely boat

[kmerr98277]

Wow, thanks for all the replies and pics! Would it look ok to purposely make the pieces look different? I'm wondering if lots of random different color peices would have a nice look, similar to wood floors that have many different joints and colors.

[Canoez]

Kmerr - if that's the look you like, go for it. Personally, I don't always like the "patchwork quilt" boats, but it's not my boat. If it isn't what you like either, do something that you find pleasing. Unless you're planning on selling the boat when done with it, the only person that has to be happy with the way it looks is you.

[kmerr98277]

Thanks everybody! Ended up going with full-length strips.

[Cogeniac]

Whew! That was close! Butt joints on every strip is dangerously close to butts in every strip joint!!