Intellectually boggling ( no political content )

[Gerarddm]

It is this kind of stuff that really excercises one's mind:

http://news.yahoo.com/largest-molecules-yet-behave-waves-quantum-double-slit-184107270.html

[ljb5]

A minor correction: these aren't the largest molecules ever - far from it. It's easy to find molecules that are a thousand times larger. These are merely the largest molecules that have yet been studied in this way.

When I was a first-year physics student, we were taught that all matter diffracts through a slit. Even a person walking through a door spreads out slightly, but good luck developing an instrument precise enough to measure that.

[Arizona Bay]

A rubber tire is a single molecule!

Ponder this one, "objects" are >99.99% empty space. Nothing is solid or separate, there are no objects :D

So if we are composed of mostly empty space, where does consciousness reside?

[Flying Orca]

So if we are composed of mostly empty space, where does consciousness reside?

In the pattern. ;)

[Arizona Bay]

In the pattern. ;)

A self replicating pattern of energetic particles / waves, which can become conscious... I can go with that :D ... what happens at death, the form is still there, possibly an error in the pattern extinguishes the consciousness..? hmmm

How about consciousness exists in the space or is the space, which focuses itself through a self replicating pattern, giving it boundaries, and reference points, creating A point of perception?

Perception is everything ;)

[Gerarddm]

Read The Holographic Universe, a most interesting book.

[Keith Wilson]

A rubber tire is a single molecule!Actually, no. Big, but not that big. The molecules are cross-linked (that's what vulcanization is) but not really one molecule. Most have a molecular weight between maybe 100,000 and 3 million.

Reality looks very odd to us on very small scales. That's our problem, not reality's

[Arizona Bay]

Yes it is :)

Science approaches the Shamans perception ;)

[Arizona Bay]

Actually, no. Big, but not that big. The molecules are cross-linked (that's what vulcanization is) but not really one molecule. Most have a molecular weight between maybe 100,000 and 3 million.

Reality looks very odd to us on very small scales. That's our problem, not reality's

That is how I heard it described, I admit to ignorance of the details..

We have our perceptual patterns to contend with ;) the mind is a pattern maker

[Keith Wilson]

True. But if we want to understand reality, or at least understand it well enough to build things that work, we have to try and get beyond the patterns our minds create and look at what's out there. Our mind evolved to keep hunter-gatherers alive on the African plains. It does many things that aren't real helpful with quantum physics.

[Arizona Bay]

Agree. I also believe that intuition plays an increasing role when we approach the boundaries.
Mind is about differentiation and patterns, it gets uncomfortable when things seem chaotic, intuitive awareness can often lead to a breakthrough the mind couldn't find logically.
There is also the factor of the observer affecting the observed, to be aware of.

[Flying Orca]

what happens at death, the form is still there, possibly an error in the pattern extinguishes the consciousness..?

I think the pattern we call consciousness relies upon rapid change from moment to moment. Death significantly degrades that capability. ;)

[ljb5]

It's turtles, all the way down.

[Arizona Bay]

Unconsciously Unconscious
Consciously Unconscious
Consciously Conscious
Unconsciously Conscious

Stages of awakening self awareness

[Arizona Bay]

I think the pattern we call consciousness relies upon rapid change from moment to moment. snip Not quite sure what you mean here.. :D

Trying to describe the indescribable LoL

[LeeG]

In the pattern. ;)

beauty breaks a pattern


I'd like to put on a bbq for you folks. Good stuff all around

[Flying Orca]

Not quite sure what you mean here.. :D

Trying to describe the indescribable LoL

I know, eh? :D

What I mean is that I think consciousness is a self-reflecting, moving pattern of matter/energy in our neural structure. Self-reflecting in that I think Hofstadter may be right about mirrored, tangled hierarchies giving rise to self-awareness; moving because rapid change with coherence is a hallmark of human consciousness; matter and energy because our brains operate on electricity and chemistry, and may well rely on quantum effects as well (see for example Stephenson's discussion in Anathem of many-worlds consciousness as a solution to the problem of modelling huge numbers of possibilities - I don't know where he got the idea, or whether it's original, but it's intriguing).

[Arizona Bay]

T'would be a pleasure!


Reminded me of Chuck


Walking in Beauty (Closing Prayer from the Navajo Way Blessing Ceremony)



In beauty I walk
With beauty before me I walk
With beauty behind me I walk
With beauty above me I walk
With beauty around me I walk
It has become beauty again
Hózhóogo naasháa doo
****sijí’ hózhóogo naasháa doo
Shikéédéé hózhóogo naasháa doo
Shideigi hózhóogo naasháa doo
T’áá altso shinaagóó hózhóogo naasháa doo
Hózhó náhásdlíí’
Hózhó náhásdlíí’
Hózhó náhásdlíí’
Hózhó náhásdlíí’
Today I will walk out, today everything negative will leave me
I will be as I was before, I will have a cool breeze over my body.
I will have a light body, I will be happy forever, nothing will hinder me.
I walk with beauty before me. I walk with beauty behind me.
I walk with beauty below me. I walk with beauty above me.
I walk with beauty around me. My words will be beautiful.
In beauty all day long may I walk.
Through the returning seasons, may I walk.
On the trail marked with pollen may I walk.
With dew about my feet, may I walk.
With beauty before me may I walk.
With beauty behind me may I walk.
With beauty below me may I walk.
With beauty above me may I walk.
With beauty all around me may I walk.
In old age wandering on a trail of beauty, lively, may I walk.
In old age wandering on a trail of beauty, living again, may I walk.
My words will be beautiful…

[Flying Orca]

First heard that from my first wife, who was apparently part Dineh/Dené.

[Arizona Bay]

I know, eh? :D

What I mean is that I think consciousness is a self-reflecting, moving pattern of matter/energy in our neural structure. Self-reflecting in that I think Hofstadter may be right about mirrored, tangled hierarchies giving rise to self-awareness; moving because rapid change with coherence is a hallmark of human consciousness; matter and energy because our brains operate on electricity and chemistry, and may well rely on quantum effects as well (see for example Stephenson's discussion in Anathem of many-worlds consciousness as a solution to the problem of modelling huge numbers of possibilities - I don't know where he got the idea, or whether it's original, but it's intriguing).

I'll reflect on this while I cook some dinner ;)

Everything is energy when you get far enough in, and when you slip in the quantum view, past, present and future have no meaning since all possibilities exist at all times. It's just depends which track the observer chooses to follow, but even that is misleading since it implies causality.
Things can be true and not true simultaneously :p

[Durnik]

Things can be true and not true simultaneously :p

That's not true..

sorry, I have a friend who once said I was just contrary.. I told her "No I'm not" ;-)

If we are perceivers.. & what we 'see' is of our perception, then what part of 'us' exists 'before' our perception - to be able to perceive?

The universe is a most wonderful paradox! ;-)

enjoy - I am!
bobby

BTW, I am not 'just' contrary.. but I _am_ contrary.. ;-)

[Arizona Bay]

Walking through the paradox...

The empty space, undifferentiated awareness...
we create the entire world internally and project it 'out there' but There is no out there, out there... it's all within
The outer is a reflection of the inner, but most of us work it the other way around, which sets up a feed back loop. Makes it seem solid and "real", (the mind likes that)
Until--- One day, a beauty moment :D

Maybe ;)

"the world is what you think it is"
I Am that too

[purri]

ways of seeing, ways of knowing, ways of thinking, ways of doing.

[Durnik]

we create the entire world internally and project it 'out there' but There is no out there, out there... it's all within

There is no 'out there'.. there is no 'within'.. where is the perceiver? where is the projected? where is the perceived?


ways of seeing, .. knowing, .. thinking, .. doing

being..

enjoy
bobby

[Arizona Bay]

Here!


Dreaming
http://youtu.be/H7oE4sKIDuU (http://youtu.be/H7oE4sKIDuU)

http://grooveshark.com/s/Lareralus/laUy7?src=5

[Durnik]

Here!


Dreaming
http://youtu.be/H7oE4sKIDuU (http://youtu.be/H7oE4sKIDuU)

http://grooveshark.com/s/Lareralus/laUy7?src=5

Alas, my i-net connection usually, as today, stumbles over html.. a video is almost always unavailable.. I'll put that link into my 'check when the net is swinging' file & try to remember it! ;-)

enjoy
bobby

[TomF]

...Reality looks very odd to us on very small scales. That's our problem, not reality'sNot just on small scales either, IMO.

I suspect ever since we first began sitting 'round and talking about things, humans have tried to explain reality. For all our successes in some fields, there's a rather massive hubris in imagining that we're capable of seeing it all, let alone understanding it all.

[Flying Orca]

Not just on small scales either, IMO.

I suspect ever since we first began sitting 'round and talking about things, humans have tried to explain reality. For all our successes in some fields, there's a rather massive hubris in imagining that we're capable of seeing it all, let alone understanding it all.

True, true... and yet, is there any more magnificent a human endeavour?