Cartopping skin on frame rowboat --Ruth

[BillAnderson]

I'm looking to transport a skin-on-frame wherry (Dave Gentry's Ruth). I have a 15' Toyota Corolla, and Ruth's LOA is 19' I believe.

I've read other cartopping advice threads here, but are there any considerations when dealing with skin-on-frame? Will the front tiedowns stress the frame more than a traditional wooden boat? Should I no longer drive 80mph in the breakdown lane?

If doable, I wouldn't mind occasionally commuting with it, as I'm only a couple of miles from Spot Pond and could get in a quick row during lunch.

Thanks in advance,
Bill

[BillAnderson]

Oh! And I don't have any roof racks yet.

[Ian McColgin]

You absolutely need bow and stern lines to the bumper to tow loops or whatever. Racks blow off at the worst moments. The rack straps side to side over the boat just keep it from sliding side to side. I don't know about the abrasion resistance of your skin but many kayakers and canoeists who really value their finish have fitted canvass covers to keep airborn stand and crud from making a mess of the boat. I'd certainly do that.

And yeah, take it down to sixty in the breakdown lane.

[BillAnderson]

I'll be the slowest guy on the road in Massachusetts!
I normally crank the front tie cranked pretty tight, but I worry about doing so with this type of construction.
I didn't build it, I'm buying it, thus the uncertainty. My daughter is going to be a freshman in high school and wants to crew, so if I started building now, I would finish up just in time to give it to her when she earns her PhD.
Thanks for the tip regarding canvas covers, I'll try it.

[dredbob]

I cartop canoes and kayaks reasonably often on a Thule gutter-mount rack fitted to brackets bolted through the roof of my truck topper (cap). My system is that the boats are primarily secured to the crossbars such that they cannot move. Bow and stern lines to the bumpers are used, but are slack, they are there only in case of a catastrophic failure of the rack system, to keep it attached to the truck and from becoming a traffic menace. I've travelled thousands of miles like this, and never had a boat shift, if it was properly tied on in the first place. One of my boats is a Folboat folding SOF kayak, which I have transported assembled on the roof rack at times. The trick with fragile boats like this is to have multiple wraps of the straps or lines, and to use some kind of wide semi stiff material like a strip of foam, or even heavy cardboard in a pinch, to spread out the pressure of the tie-down. I use pieces of pipe insulation or pool noodles as needed to pad the crossbars and increase friction between the boat and the bars. I also have a couple of foam kayak blocks that fit down over the bars and provide a wide contoured base for the kayaks. The kayak saddles that both Thule and Yakima sell look like just the thing to provide a stable base for a SOF boat.

Canoes always get a thwart aligned with a crossbar, and the two are tied together with a spiral wrap all the way across. Kayaks always have something (cockpit rims, deck bungies, etc) that can be used with the tie-downs to limit forward and aft movement.

I've seen people who have carried plastic canoes with just ratchet straps at bow and stern, cranked down hard enough to distort the boat, but I would never trust such an arrangement, nor would I ever submit one of my boats to such forces.

Bob

[BillAnderson]

Canoes always get a thwart aligned with a crossbar, and the two are tied together with a spiral wrap all the way across. Kayaks always have something (cockpit rims, deck bungies, etc) that can be used with the tie-downs to limit forward and aft movement.


Wow, this is a great idea, thank you. I was thinking that I needed to pad the rope contact points with foam as you said, I imagine that plastic or wood distributes the stress more evenly.

I do normally crank the bow lines fairly tight right alongside the roof rack lines.

I did find a site that gives tips on how to mount rowing shells on compact cars. There were some pretty good ideas there as well.

[ChrisBen]

I cartopped my SOF canoe from Ft.Lauderdal, Fl to Tennessee then to N.E Ohio. Actually it was on an extended cab pickup. Get 4 of these or make them yourself out of closed cell foam.
Riverside Cartop Canoe Foam Blocks with non skid laminate, 58601 | Canoe & Kayak Accessories | Paddle Sports | GEAR | items from Campmor. (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___58601)
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r133/loki59/canoe5-1.jpg

[Ben Fuller]

Lots of people cartop SOF kayaks for long distances at speed. Upside down of course so that the strength members take weight such as it is. Some people don't pad; I use some pipe insulation. Each of the tie downs has two runs across the boat. I use straps but others have good success with relatively thin strong line run through clear tubing to distribute weight. Bow ties downs are important with canoes and upside down rowing craft as they lift more than qajaq. I like to make sure that the end ties run to both corners of the hood, so you have a real triangle. I snug everything up but save the real pull for the bar to boat conections. If chafe is concern, take and old towel and put it under the tie down straps, smoothly of course.

Looks like you have a nice boat there. Brian Schulz, Cape Falcon Kayaks, took one of his SOF rowboats from Oregon down to Baja and wrote about the cruising trip in WB. Had no problem.

[skuthorp]

I have bought a commercial canoe/kayak carry system marketed by the company that made my vehicle. It is fitted with a special tool and requires some deconstruction to to remove. The racks bars are permanently attatched to the vehicle to the vehicle. I use winch straps generally for the kayak, but the canoe travels on a trailer.

[ChrisBen]

Just wanted to add, I made 4 of these myself and just slipped the cut-out part over the gunn'l. Two each side. No roof racks required.
Riverside Cartop Canoe Foam Blocks with non skid laminate, 58601 | Canoe & Kayak Accessories | Paddle Sports | GEAR | items from Campmor. (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___58601)

[BillAnderson]

Thanks gang!
I have tie down straps, rope, tarp, padding and foam pipe insulation prepared for this trip. We'll see how it goes.
I figured out how to convert my VW straight bars to fit my Toyota, will try that out this weekend. I do like the foam block idea, will try that out as well.

[Tobago]

I've car-topped our Folbot on the roof of the old Volvo on a set of Thule kayak racks that hold the boat on its side. Strapped around each holder and with bow and stern lines to the bumpers. Gone from NY to Chincoteague without problems.

Good luck

[skuthorp]

I wonder about an elastic net type tie down? Not rigid enough?

[Ian McColgin]

Flat web is best as it won't mar the boat. Far better a non-elestic system that will stay at the tension you tie in rather than something that must develop a gap to exert the greater strain it takes to keep the boat in place as the wind buffetts it about.

If you use flat strap, it can vibrate annoyingly if it goes in the air at all, which it must if the boat is wider at some point than where it lands on the carrier. Note that you do not want to angle the strap or rope in to make it lie flat on the boat because if you do, it can slip out and relax the tension. Go straight to the carrier's bar. So a bit of strap in the air and that will vibrate -- unless you just jive it a twist. Then no annoying flutter.

You do not need to over crank the ties. If the buckles or your knots are correct "hand tight" is just fine. Take the bow line as an example. If you have say 15# tension on the line at rest, you could get air under trying to lift the boat with 60# or more. That strain is spread all over the boat from the forward carrier bar to the bow and will be held just fine by the bow line. Since there's little to no stretch, the line will be loaded with the 60# lift. But if you put 60# on that bow line with the boat at rest, the strain is concentrated where the boat crosses the carrier bar rather than all over the boat at much lower local PSI. This is why no elastic lines and just tighten enough to prevent wiggle.

G'luck

[Arizona Bay]

Timely thread :) I had just started looking for a way to carry a Dave Gentry CK kayak on top of a dbl cab pickup.
Think I'm going to try this, which I found on Amazon.
Straps, line, blocks and gunwale pads for 25bks.
http://www.amazon.com/Attwood-Car-Top-Kayak-Carrier-Kit/dp/B003EET2OE/ref=pd_sbs_sg_1

http://www.attwoodmarine.com/UserFiles/Store/Product/Images/1298/full/11438-ALL_fu.jpg


ChrisBen- What did you seal the skin your boat with? I like the amber color, beauty!

[ChrisBen]

16 coats Behr varnish.

[Arizona Bay]

That's a lot of varnish... but I like it, looks like skin.

[DGentry]

I've transported my Ruth several thousand miles on top of my car, plus lots of other SOF boats, too. Most of the advice here is spot on, but I'll sum up:
- Upside down for Ruth (right side up for a Chuckanut kayak)
- Padding between gunwales and whatever you are strapping it to - an old towel is fine
- Flat polyester webbing tie downs (the kind without hooks) work best - one at each cross bar or foam pad
- Place your cross bars as far apart as your roof rack will allow, if that's an option.
- Locate a frame on or near a cross bar
- Don't be afraid to crank the tie down straps pretty good - if you can substantially move the boat around by wiggling the
nose, then it's too loose
- Low stretch bow and stern lines, definitely. Taut, but don't crank down on them. You can loop a stern line over the
inverted hull and back down to an anchor point on the car. Tension it enough so that it won't slide over the skeg.
- 70 mph has never been an issue for me.

Good luck!
Dave Gentry

I'll add that I replaced the stock crossbars on my car with carpet covered 2x4's. Not so stylish, but they are wide enough that I can carry several boats, and the flat tops of the boards spread out the point loads on the gunwales or keel.

[BillAnderson]

Thanks! I have successfully navigated Roxbury, Dorchester and Downtown Boston so far, now to get it home to NH!
Interesting thoughts on the elastic lines, thank you Ian.

Dave, that's one beautiful boat you've designed. I will have a few specific questions for you shortly, if you don't mind.
Thanks again!
Bill