Navy Whaleboat

[johnh94927]

There was some discussion round here lately about navy whaleboats. through about the korean war period, the whaleboats were made of wood:
http://www.history.navy.mil/pics/whaleboat.jpg
and:
http://www.maritime.org/hnsa-img/motorwhale.jpg
Somewhere, there;s gotta be some building plans.

[This message has been edited by johnh94927 (edited 12-03-2001).]

[DougWilde]

One place would be:

Transactions of the Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers, vol 6, pp. 1-14, 1898. No, that date isn't a misprint. The text is only 15 pages but that is followed by a few dozen more that include drawings as well as photographs.

Next would be the National Archives in College Park, MD. They either will have original linens, from which one may obtain copies, or microfilm of the original drawings. The latter often is a bargin because one roll of film may contain plans for a dozen or so vessels, with multiple draws for each design, for a total price of about $35.

Lastly you could contact the Naval Historical Center at the Washington Navy Yard.

Wait, what am I thinking. Go to the Floating Drydock for all your Navy plans.

The Floating Drydock (http://www.floatingdrydock.com/)

Very reasonable prices.

Doug Wilde

[Steve Paskey]

Another possibility: one of the youth apprenticeship programs at the Alexandria Seaport Foundation recently built a whaleboat. Their building site? The Washington Navy Yard.

You can reach ASF at 703-549-7078 or by e-mail at ASFOffice@aol.com

[Tom Lathrop]

They look pretty good and are very seaworthy but, a BIG but, they make no concession to the comfort of the occupants. They are heavy, slow, wet and will roll your guts out, especially at anchor.

[Bayboat]

The standard Navy "whaleboat" fits Tom's description pretty well. I don't know why they are called whaleboats, except they are double-enders. Otherwise they are quite different from the old New England whaleboats, which were much lighter and narrower--beamed. If you are looking to build a Navy-type whaleboat, why not go for the Monomoy model, also used by the old Navy.
They were lighter, intended for sailing instruction, had a pivoting centerboard and lug or sliding gunter rig. They were smart sailers and fun to sail. Look in "search" for a discussion of Monomoys here some time ago.

[Dave Fleming]

Johnxxxxx, re: Navy Whaleboats, worked on several at old Anderson and Christofani's near Hunters Point Naval Shipyard
Big tubs as I recall. Ayup, many have been converted to cabin cruiser types but gosh do they roll. One fella up in Seattle at the Riverside Marina, added some substantial bilge keels to his but don't recall any performnce comments by him.
Now the real Monomoy's are nice craft. In my Coast Guard days we practiced surf launching them off the Cape May, NJ base. Later whilst still in my apprenticeship, I worked some little time at WF Stones in Alameda, CA..
They were building 2 Monomoys for the California Maritime Academy, all copper fastened. Billy Linderman and I did most all that rivetting! Musta been thousands of 'em.
Don't recall the vessels having centerboards either at Cape May or at Stones. They had the watertight bottoms with freeing scuppers just above, removable rudders and fittings for surf sweep. Construction reminds me of the Jersey Sea Skiff, lapstrake and many small steam bent frames.
In My Opinionated Opinion, the Monomoy is a much better vessel than that Navy whaleboat.
For some good whale boat stuff including drawings, can't recall seeing any offsets.
Get a copy of the book by Willets Ansel on them. Also the Bonanza Press picture book, Whale Ships and Whaling has some good photos of true whaleboats in it.
And of course there is that old standby the Smithsonian Catalog.

[johnh94927]

This has turned out to be a really informative thread. DF - didn't know you were a real boatbuilder. I was just reading about the sf scout boats last night - they are having them redone professionally to keep them usable.
i got interested in them but they never used the term Monomoy. One was built in 1939.
Dory - I checked with ASF and they sorta waffled on it. But the Floating Drydock does have scale model plans, as Doug Wilde suggested.
As for the Smithsonian - it's odd, but I don't think they've added much since Chapelle's day. His project was a sort of WPA (?) thing, i think, and now it seems to be just in maintenance mode. Shame, because there is a wealth of stuff in govt filing cabs that would be interesting to study, but is buried.

[This message has been edited by johnh94927 (edited 12-06-2001).]

[Dave Fleming]

Geeze Johnxxx, ya mean ya thought I was just shooting my mouth off all these posts?
NO EXPERT but done my share in wood and later in Aluminium http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/redface.gif
Bye the way that is WPA as in Works Progress Administration of pre WW II Roosevelt era.
Who is doing the rehab on the Scout vessels?
Try contacting the Coast Guard for some info too. They maintain thier own boat yard and design office some where in Maryland, IIRC.

[johnh94927]

The article on building whaleboats in carvel and cold-mold is at:
http://www.timestream.com/info/people/biotay/whale.html
posted by the author, tay vaughan.
The scouting article turns out to be from '98, so maybe the work is complete by now, but who knows. The whole article is at:
http://www.scouter.com/archives/Seascout-Net/199810/0062.asp
The give a nick tarlson as the contact man.
If you get involved, let me know and I'll come down and hold a bucking iron for you http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/cool.gif

[This message has been edited by johnh94927 (edited 12-05-2001).]

[Dave Fleming]

Johnxxxx, now that place I GOT to see!
So when next I travel from present domicile here in 'insane Diego', I will try to find it.
But for the life of me I cannot envision such a location/facility as that described in the article?
Wonder if Mr.Cleek can shed some light on this? Notice that the article talked about doings in 1980 that was over 20 years ago now.
Cripes, the National Maritime Disgrace on Hyde St. Pier should have such a facility!

[ChrisB]

Plans for the Coast Guard monoy surfboat in wood can be obtained from the Historian of the Coast Guard, www.uscg.mil (http://www.uscg.mil)

[plimsol]

The Puget Sound Maritime Haistorical Society has a complete set of blue prints in the ship's plans collection, plus most of the plans from the Bremerton Naval Shipyard small boat shop.
The plans are for the standard motor whale boat. I will be cataloging more of the collection this weekend and will look for a monomoy type. No promises, just a lot of pleasant surpises in the collection.

[johnh94927]

DF - if by "that place" you mean the Bay Area Maritime Institute, the place mentioned in the cold-molding article, it folded not long after the article was published. http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/frown.gif
If you navigate around that article enough, you eventually get to the author's "long form" biography, which is... long, and somewhere in it the demise of BAMI is mentioned.
It would be cool if something like it could be resurrected, and let loose on Wapama. Hell, I'd sign up. BUT - it would have to be free of NPS control to work. They're welcome to fund, of course. But if it ain't already dead - like a rock or something - the feds ain't good at keeping it.
I don't know about the scouts boats.
The other leads for monomoy boats are also very much appreciated. This is a cool thread, and your contributions are great.
Puget Sound etc... that would be:
http://www.pugetmaritime.org/
cool web site - worth a visit!


[This message has been edited by johnh94927 (edited 12-06-2001).]

[Dave Fleming]

Johnxxx, I think I got a feel for where that BAMI was located.
Bethlehem Steel had a yard in San Francisco, south of China Basin and, nearby was a smallish boat yard. Damn if I can remember the name but even in the late 1970's it wasn't doing to well. Let's see something like George Kneass & Sons, IIRC.
It was just a block away from the Shipwrights Union Hall. I am guessing that is where the BAMI was. Last time I was over in that neck of the woods was to pick up my retirement pin and stuff from the Hall. Geeze the tools that are still in storage in the basement would stock a battalion of shipwrights! Most belong/ed to fellows that are long gone to that great shipyard in the sky. Union Rep, says they will stay there till someone claims them. It did happen, he got a call from Texas one day. Seems the son of a deceased member was going through his dad's stuff and came across the reciept for the tool storage.
He contacted the Hall and the Rep. shipped them off to him after checking his bona fides.
Well back to BAMI, it was shut up with broken windows and looked as if some hippie type was living up in the Loft. Too bad, it is not such a poor location but it would take BIG BUCKS to put it aright. Area is kinda dingy with all sorts of abandoned vehicles about.

[This message has been edited by Dave Fleming (edited 12-06-2001).]

[ChrisB]

I worked as an evening instructor at BAMI from 1976 - 82 in naval architecture for boatbuilders, structure and lofting. The two monomoys built there were to the Coast Guard drawings, which you can get through the Historian, address noted above. It happens the plan files group that fills requests is in the same building as I am, and gets several plan rquests a week, mostly from ship modellers, and fills them quite readily. There are a number of other pulling boats in the files and a bunch of other fun stuff, and they eventually will be up on the CG site for download, most likely.

BAMI went under sometime after I left SF for a job in London, and was gone when I came back in 1985.

The main point of BAMI, however, was that is was concentrated on contemporary vice traditional boat building and systems. The idea was to be able to readily get a job, and hence BAMI taught weldding, fiberglass, electrical, systems, painting, etc. as well as wooden boat stuff.

Unfortunately, there was not then a lot of call for that kind of training, and it was always quite expensive to do.

[Dave Fleming]

ChrisB, what was the location of BAMI, if you please?

[This message has been edited by Dave Fleming (edited 12-09-2001).]