What Defines a "Trawler?"

[Bobcat]

I know about commercial trawlers, but I am not sure what characteristics make a pleasure boat a "trawler."

Is just marketing?

[Ian McColgin]

Mostly marketing. Displacement hull, plumb or near plumb stem, high in the bow and nice sweep to a noticably lower stern, raised pilot house, some foredeck and an aft deck, maybe side decks. And attitude.

[Bobcat]

Good attitude or bad attitude?

[landlocked sailor]

It's all good. Rick

[Woxbox]

And while were on it, Trawler vs. Troller?

[TerryLL]

Troller is looking for a response...ANY response, and he will chum the waters with complaints, insults, compliments, and inflammatory tidbits hoping that someone...ANYONE, will take the bait. Generally quite harmless - practices a form of catch and release. Nonetheless, he can upset the delicate ecology of a discussion forum. Once a forum becomes aware of his presence, however, all feeding activity ceases and Troller must move on to more promising waters.

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/Assets/troller.jpg

[Breakaway]

Ha! Nice TerryLL!

Troller--drags hooks and lines to catch fish

Trawler (dragger)--drags nets to catch fish

Recreational versions, descendants and refits of the above are available.

Kevin

[gilberj]

It goes back to the marketing effect of calling something a trawler yacht. The truth is they more closely resemble trollers but trawlers sounds bigger and bigger tougher more powerful sells. My very old 45 foot power boat consumes 1.5 gallons per hour at 7+ knots and a similar sized trawler yacht consumes three times that or more..... for perhaps another knot or two.

[Soundman67]

So hull design has very little to do with the names of the boats. Its more about how people fished off of them. Troller Trawler Seiner Gilnetter.......

[TerryLL]

So hull design has very little to do with the names of the boats. Its more about how people fished off of them. Troller Trawler Seiner Gilnetter.......

Not really. In Alaskan waters a seiner, a gillnetter, and a troller are immediately recognizable simply by the hull type. A quick glance at the gear will also suffice to define the type. I never saw a gillnetter with a seine block, or a halibut schooner with trolling poles, or trawl doors on a gillnetter. But I'm talking real fishing boats here, and not the plastic weekenders with made-up names.

[johnw]

In theory, you can troll from pretty much any boat, and I've seen old pleasure boats adapted by professional fishermen. But there are certain types that tend to develop for the sea conditions and the use.

Gillnetter (stern picker):
http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/Unidentified_Gillnetter_-_Full-Size_Photograph19658.jpg

Troller:
http://trolleryachts.com/Troller%20Site%20Illustrations/My%20NW%20photos/old%20troller3.jpg

Trawlers, because of the weight of the gear, tend to be more burdensome:
http://setsail.com/images/stories/dashew/ketch_2-028.jpg

My cousin fished a gillnetter until he drank himself to death, my niece's husband has fished some seasons on a trawler, usually tending the net skiff. You see trollers on the Washington and Oregon coast, or did when there was something left of the fishery.

[Dave Wright]

I know about commercial trawlers, but I am not sure what characteristics make a pleasure boat a "trawler."

Is just marketing?

George Buehler answers your question very nicely in "The Troller Yacht Book." It's a decent book, I recommend it for general interest.

[johnw]

To confuse matter further, there's purse seining as seen in that third photo in my first post, and draggers.

http://thebirdguide.com/pelagics/images/IMG_7474_fishing_boat.jpg

http://thebirdguide.com/pelagics/images/IMG_7421_fishing_boat.jpg

[gilberj]

Trawlers are bigger boats generally from 60 odd feet to 200 odd feet, often called draggers...A trawl net is a big net held open with doors which are essentially flat panels which sort of kite fly under water out to one or both sides. You use vessel speed and length of your net tow to control the depth and width of the opening.
Trollers are smaller generally 35 to 50 feet and fish with lines and hooks, moving at slow speeds.
Most of the "trawler yachts" are 35 to 50 feet and more closely resemble trollers, but not so much.
Really it is a marketing scheme, to describe motor cruisers which cruise at a somewhat slower speed than some faster planing cruisers, and have perhaps more and better laid out people space inside.

[CapnJ2ds]

Is just marketing?

Yes. The term "trawler yacht" was, I believe, invented by the bloke who marketed the Penbo boats in the US. Boats of the type were around long before the term was invented, but were called by other names, "North-West Cruisers" to name but one.

The principal reason for the heavy displacement of actual fishing trawlers is to give them the heft to keep a steady pull on their gear. Other reasons are the weight of said gear and the weight of their catch.

[Breakaway]

The principal reason for the heavy displacement of actual fishing trawlers is to give them the heft to keep a steady pull on their gear. Other reasons are the weight of said gear and the weight of their catch.

Zackly. A draggerboat, in particular, is working like a tugboat most of the time.

kevin

[johnw]

Yes. The term "trawler yacht" was, I believe, invented by the bloke who marketed the Penbo boats in the US. Boats of the type were around long before the term was invented, but were called by other names, "North-West Cruisers" to name but one.

The principal reason for the heavy displacement of actual fishing trawlers is to give them the heft to keep a steady pull on their gear. Other reasons are the weight of said gear and the weight of their catch.

I said Gardner before, but actually I think it was Ed Monk Sr. who started designing yachts based on his troller designs in the 1930s or 40s. "Trawler yacht" is actually a corruption of "troller yacht," by people who didn't know how big trawlers actually are.

http://books.google.com/books?id=tvIXhQXIP_sC&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=troller+yachts+monk&source=bl&ots=hrDKWZLOEq&sig=HUtQjQy3B6HgFRSsaMtJDkK8Bro&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DlJdT9X4LeesiQL0zeCxCw&ved=0CEYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=troller%20yachts%20monk&f=false

[Yeadon]

Gillnetter (stern picker):
http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/Unidentified_Gillnetter_-_Full-Size_Photograph19658.jpg



I think I want one of these, among other important things.

[johnw]

I think I want one of these, among other important things.

Those old stern pickers are kind of sweet. Here's one with my grandfather's brother on it, at Astoria about 100 years ago.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WsEJ0yqHYgY/StVKjh5wXaI/AAAAAAAABZ0/TH1-jE5PaFo/s512/Alec%20MacBeath.jpg

You can see the resemblance to the Bristol Bay sailing gillnetters. They started using the type in California, then worked up the coast, I believe.

[ron ll]

My boat, "Snoose" is a converted salmon troller. It still has the troller-hole at the stearn, a self-bailing lazarette in which the fisherman stood while pulling in the fish and re-baiting the hooks. Of course the little aft cabin is where the open fish hold used to be. She no longer has the mast and troller poles mounted, altho I have them at home. She was also rigged as a gill netter for a short time and the current little steel pipe mast and lights were for that phase of her life. But I still quite often have to explain to people the difference between troller and trawler, the yacht marketing having sufficiently confused people.

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r560/ron_ll/snoosesmall.jpg

http://www.ronlloyd.com/oddstuff/olymp.jpg

A similar issue is the genre of yacht "tugs" like Nordic Tug, American Tug, etc. These boats can plane, or semi-plane, something I don't think any real tug boat can do. :)

[Bobcat]

Thanks for the replies. I am well aware what a troller is, having worked for three seasons on a troller. It seems that marketing has made the term "trawler" for a pleasure boat mean a displacement cruiser. I do like the term "northwest cruiser," I suspect it would require some explaining.

[Lew Barrett]

It's all been said here, but I would add that I think Jon is correct in suggesting that the type (rather than the name itself, which Monk never would have used) was probably first developed by Monk Sr. as a way to provide sea kindly and durable yachts of simple but rugged construction to people looking for sensible long range cruisers. What's maybe missing from the definitions so far is the idea of long range, as per George Buehler's view of design.

[johnw]

My boat, "Snoose" is a converted salmon troller. It still has the troller-hole at the stearn, a self-bailing lazarette in which the fisherman stood while pulling in the fish and re-baiting the hooks. Of course the little aft cabin is where the open fish hold used to be. She no longer has the mast and troller poles mounted, altho I have them at home. She was also rigged as a gill netter for a short time and the current little steel pipe mast and lights were for that phase of her life. But I still quite often have to explain to people the difference between troller and trawler, the yacht marketing having sufficiently confused people.

http://www.ronlloyd.com/oddstuff/olymp.jpg

A similar issue is the genre of yacht "tugs" like Nordic Tug, American Tug, etc. These boats can plane, or semi-plane, something I don't think any real tug boat can do. :)

Hey, that boat's a beauty!

Of course, people like the idea of tugs, but in an actual tug an incredible amount of the available space is taken by the ginormous engine. Plus, what would be the point of a planing boat when you're planning to tow a log boom?

[Bobcat]

Snoose is a beauty!

I have heard it said that working tugs can be nice conversions to pleasure boats because you have some much more room when you pull the big honking engine and repower with something designed just to move the boat itself

[meuritt]

When I was looking at buy a boat 5 years ago we looked at a lot of the yachtie versions of the trawler. All of them were at best semi displacement while other claimed you could actually get up on plane. Yeah, right, at 50 gph. The only full displacement boats I found were in fact converted work boats, but many of them had a square stern then went into the water, with it resulting drag. Common power for the yachts was twin Ford Lehman's, for the conversions was a single 6-76.

As pointed out, the term is all marketing these days

The Troller Yacht Book is great!

[dredbob]

.... It seems that marketing has made the term "trawler" for a pleasure boat mean a displacement cruiser.

Yes, I think that is dead on. "Trawler" now means almost any non-planing larger yacht, but not quite large enough to be a super-yacht or is not an otherwise recognizable type, like say a "picnic yacht" or "lobster yacht".

Thus we get a things marketed as "trailerable trawlers", which are just smaller displacement cruisers, etc.

By the way, besides George Beuhler's book _The Troller Yacht_, mentioned above, the only other really good book on displacement cruising boats is Robert Beebe's original edition of _Cruising Under Power_. But you have to get the original by Beebe, not the more recent version that has been edited by someone else. Beebe is the coiner of the term "passagemaker" to refer to a power yacht capable of making long voyages on open water.

Bob

Edited to add: I guess I should make that only other 'relatively modern' book. There are some books on power cruising written and published in or before the first half of the last century, and there is good and interesting info to be gleaned from them, but also much that is hopelessly out of date; moreso, it seems to me, than a book on sailing craft of the same vintage.

[CapnJ2ds]

By the way, besides George Beuhler's book _The Troller Yacht_, mentioned above, the only other really good book on displacement cruising boats is Robert Beebe's original edition of _Cruising Under Power_. But you have to get the original by Beebe, not the more recent version that has been edited by someone else. Beebe is the coiner of the term "passagemaker" to refer to a power yacht capable of making long voyages on open water.

"Voyaging Under Power", but I agree, it's really the "bible" for passage making under power. Agree also that Beebe's original is the best edition; I have both, and the Leishman-revised edition departs from the KISS principle rather badly, while not really adding anything much to the pot.

Buehler's book is good value too, more in the spirit of Beebe than Leishman, but I think of it as an addendum to "Voyaging", rather than a stand-alone book.

[dredbob]

"Voyaging Under Power", but I agree, it's really the "bible" for passage making under power. Agree also that Beebe's original is the best edition; I have both, and the Leishman-revised edition departs from the KISS principle rather badly, while not really adding anything much to the pot.

Buehler's book is good value too, more in the spirit of Beebe than Leishman, but I think of it as an addendum to "Voyaging", rather than a stand-alone book.

Oops!! You're right, and I was looking at the book as I mis-stated the title. I guess I had Hiscock's book in the back of my mind, and it is close by on the shelf.

Bob

[JimD]

These Japanese style boats are among my favourite. Not much room in that wheelhouse but such a cozy feel.

http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/Unidentified_Gillnetter_-_Full-Size_Photograph19658.jpg

[DeanMk]

In theory, you can troll from pretty much any boat, and I've seen old pleasure boats adapted by professional fishermen. But there are certain types that tend to develop for the sea conditions and the use.

Gillnetter (stern picker):
http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/Unidentified_Gillnetter_-_Full-Size_Photograph19658.jpg

Troller:
http://trolleryachts.com/Troller%20Site%20Illustrations/My%20NW%20photos/old%20troller3.jpg

Trawlers, because of the weight of the gear, tend to be more burdensome:
http://setsail.com/images/stories/dashew/ketch_2-028.jpg

My cousin fished a gillnetter until he drank himself to death, my niece's husband has fished some seasons on a trawler, usually tending the net skiff. You see trollers on the Washington and Oregon coast, or did when there was something left of the fishery.
Hello everyone. Just joined up, first post.
I hope JohnW can forgive me. I'm not picking on you, simply using your post for examples.
My ex-brother-in-law was a gillnetter for many years.
All of the boats John showed are a Trawler design, in that the cab tends to bias to the front of the boat and the gunwale droops down, as one makes their way to the stern. I like to think of it as akin to a floating pick-up truck.
What John is calling a "trawler" in the bottom picture is commonly referred to as a Purse Seiner, because the net is drawn around the school of fish by a skiff, then the bottom is drawn closed with a line, much like the strings of a woman's purse.
I've never heard the term "stern picker", but it makes sense.
There's actually 3 types of gillnetters.
The most common type is the one John shows.
There's also a "bowpicker", which reverses the cab/net orientation on the boat.
I don't really think of the design of this particular vessel as a trawler, but I could see how one might regard the design as a sort of "reverse trawler" setup.
Lastly there's "hand netting", or "hand thrown nets". This is literally, a guy in a large dinghy laying the net out by hand, with no reel or motor to assist.
Around here, the indians tend to prefer hand nets and bowpickers.

[southerncad]

Thought I'd share a picture of my Trawler, Scape, a 32' 1970 Grand Banks with an 11'6 beam, powered by a single Lehman 120 hp diesel, and burns only
2 gph @ 8 knots....not fast but comfy & you can fish from her.|:)
2071

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Pleasure Trawlers are usually displacement,and considered cruising boats. The real pleasure trawler revolution was started by the Chinese and the Taiwanese stuff. Nice designs, very livable boats, pretty interiors, and of course, lots of plywood rot, voids in the hull and so on. Lots of brand names originating from a few yards, but all in all some decent boats for the money, which at the time was half the price of an American big name design. Some of the offshore stuff was quite well built, but some of it was dung. I particularly like the 'Europa' or Sedan styles like this Marine Trader:

http://www.tellicolady.com/TellicoLadySide.jpg

Some of the Defever designs were pretty well built and have lasted:

http://www.yachtauthority.com/images/boats/BQ_162344125/45ft_DEFEVER_Pilothouse_trawler.jpg?width=370&height=250


I love the old woodies, but sometimes they are hard to convert to a good layout.

[Nicholas Carey]

And while were on it, Trawler vs. Troller?

Trolling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling_%28fishing%29


a method of fishing where one or more fishing lines, baited with lures or bait fish, are drawn through the water. This may be behind a moving boat, or by slowly winding the line in when fishing from a static position, or even sweeping the line from side-to-side, e.g. when fishing from a jetty. Trolling is used to catch pelagic fish such as salmon, mackerel and kingfish...Trolling from a moving boat involves moving quite slowly through the water.

Trawling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trawling


a method of fishing that involves pulling a fishing net through the water behind one or more boats. The net that is used for trawling is called a trawl.

The boats that are used for trawling are called trawlers or draggers. Trawlers vary in size; from small open boats with only 30 hp engines to large factory trawlers with over 10,000 hp. Trawling can be carried out by one trawler or by two trawlers fishing cooperatively (pair trawling).

Trawl:
http://njscuba.net/zzz_artifacts/fishing_otter_trawl.gif http://www.goodcatch.org.uk/site_media/uploads/Pelagic_Mid_water_trawl.jpg

Contrast with troll/trolling (internet):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html

[johnw]

Hello everyone. Just joined up, first post.
I hope JohnW can forgive me. I'm not picking on you, simply using your post for examples.
My ex-brother-in-law was a gillnetter for many years.
All of the boats John showed are a Trawler design, in that the cab tends to bias to the front of the boat and the gunwale droops down, as one makes their way to the stern. I like to think of it as akin to a floating pick-up truck.
What John is calling a "trawler" in the bottom picture is commonly referred to as a Purse Seiner, because the net is drawn around the school of fish by a skiff, then the bottom is drawn closed with a line, much like the strings of a woman's purse.
I've never heard the term "stern picker", but it makes sense.
There's actually 3 types of gillnetters.
The most common type is the one John shows.
There's also a "bowpicker", which reverses the cab/net orientation on the boat.
I don't really think of the design of this particular vessel as a trawler, but I could see how one might regard the design as a sort of "reverse trawler" setup.
Lastly there's "hand netting", or "hand thrown nets". This is literally, a guy in a large dinghy laying the net out by hand, with no reel or motor to assist.
Around here, the indians tend to prefer hand nets and bowpickers.

See post 13. By the way, you haven't told us where you are, so around here doesn't tell us anything. I noticed some bow pickers up at the Lummi reservation last I was there.

So, by your definition, an eastern-rigged dragger is not a trawler?

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/his/mua/in_the_field/images/little_sandra.jpg

[DeanMk]

See post 13. By the way, you haven't told us where you are, so around here doesn't tell us anything.


So, by your definition, an eastern-rigged dragger is not a trawler?

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/his/mua/in_the_field/images/little_sandra.jpg

Sorry John, thought I had put my location up.
Actually, I'm not too far from you.
I'm in Poulsbo.
Commercial boats have been invading the canal for about a week or two now.
I'll see about getting a pic.
The rig you posted is new to me, but seems similar to a bowpicker, so I would call it a reverse trawler design.
Whether that's an actual design type, I don't know, but its what I'm calling it.

Whatever became of the old K2 site, there on Vashon?

Dean

[Nicholas Scheuer]

A suposedly "knowlegable" friend has stuck my Albin-25 with the type name "Mini-Trawler". Her designer, Per Brohall, called the Albin-25 a "motorboat" in the Owner's Manual which he wrote. He calls the sloop-rigged sailing variant a "Motorsailer". I usually refer to my boat as a "Diesel Motor Cruiser", having previously owned a 28' Shearwater Yawl equipped with an outboard auxiliary.

Having some appreciation for the aesthetic value of boats of all sorts, I just do not believe my Albin posesses any of the features associated with the comparatively new term, Trawler Yacht".

[Nicholas Scheuer]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8134309204_ac2ec5f8dc.jpg

Had momentarily forgotten how to upload photos when posting the above, #36. After a bit more time to figure it out, here is our Albin-25. I'm sure you will all agree, she ain't no "trawler".

[DeanMk]

...but is it still a cabin cruiser if you take the canvas top down? :D
Nice boat, Nick.


Dean

[Nicholas Scheuer]

"Cabin Cruiser" is what we used to call al those Cris-Crafts with stepped houses back in the 1950's. Of course they all had more hp and were faster.

[johnw]

Sorry John, thought I had put my location up.
Actually, I'm not too far from you.
I'm in Poulsbo.
Commercial boats have been invading the canal for about a week or two now.
I'll see about getting a pic.
The rig you posted is new to me, but seems similar to a bowpicker, so I would call it a reverse trawler design.
Whether that's an actual design type, I don't know, but its what I'm calling it.

Whatever became of the old K2 site, there on Vashon?

Dean

K2 moved production to China, now there's talk of moving production back to the states.

The boat in the picture is an eastern-rigged dragger, you can see the doors hanging by the side, so you know it tows a trawl. A bow picker is a type of gillnetter, usually with a planing hull and usually not very big.

[DeanMk]

K2 moved production to China, now there's talk of moving production back to the states.

The boat in the picture is an eastern-rigged dragger, you can see the doors hanging by the side, so you know it tows a trawl. A bow picker is a type of gillnetter, usually with a planing hull and usually not very big.
Didn't exactly answer my question, but no big deal. I just figured, since you live there.
Anyway, you are correct, the boats are both rigged differently for different purposes, but the appearance is similar, in that the cab towards the stern.
Size is hard to determine from that picture, since there is no reference for comparison.



Dean

[johnw]

Oh, you mean the K2 building on Vashon. Part of it may become a library, part may become a wellness center.

http://www.kcls.org/bond/vashon/archives.cfm

http://www.emikeflynn.com/blog/183/flynn39s-harp-intriguing-plan-for-old-k2-ski-site-/

[DeanMk]

Oh, you mean the K2 building on Vashon. Part of it may become a library, part may become a wellness center.

http://www.kcls.org/bond/vashon/archives.cfm

http://www.emikeflynn.com/blog/183/flynn39s-harp-intriguing-plan-for-old-k2-ski-site-/
Thanks John.
I hope that guy finds his backers.



Dean

[Bobcat]

Well months after starting this thread, I am still not sure if Leketoy is a trawler or not. I sometimes refer to her as a trawler just because people then have some idea of what kind of boat she is. "Motorboat" sounds too generic, "Motor Vessell" a bit much for a 35 foot boat, "Cabin Cruiser" too old fashioned, and "Yacht," well, I am not rich enough.

[DeanMk]

Well months after starting this thread, I am still not sure if Leketoy is a trawler or not. I sometimes refer to her as a trawler just because people then have some idea of what kind of boat she is. "Motorboat" sounds too generic, "Motor Vessell" a bit much for a 35 foot boat, "Cabin Cruiser" too old fashioned, and "Yacht," well, I am not rich enough.
Does this describe the shape of your boat?

...the cab tends to bias to the front of the boat and the gunwale droops down, as one makes their way to the stern.
That's a classic traditional Trawler design.
These days, I'm hearing the term "tugboat" or "tug" being bandied about as a descriptive, as well.
I think part of the problem in understanding this, is that a working boat is often described by its rigging, such as the various commerical fishing vessels JohnW and I mentioned in our posts.
If Bobcat's boat is not a working vessel, then we have to realize that we're talking about a hull/superstructure design.
Modern pleasure boats of a Trawler-type design may use a planing hull these days, but I think, traditionally, it would use a displacement hull.
...and, of course, since its a pleasure boat, the cabin will most likely be enlarged past "just a pilothouse", so at first glance, the cab may not seem to bias towards the bow.



Dean

[gilberj]

Obviously there is no substantial relationship between a "Trawler" A fishing vessel which uses trawl gear to catch fish, and a "trawler yacht" which it essentially a motor yacht which is somewhat heavier than other normal motor yachts and navigates in displacement mode only when under weigh. A Trawler Yacht is primarily a markerting ploy, giving the potential customer the feeling of being substantial.

[johnw]

Well months after starting this thread, I am still not sure if Leketoy is a trawler or not. I sometimes refer to her as a trawler just because people then have some idea of what kind of boat she is. "Motorboat" sounds too generic, "Motor Vessell" a bit much for a 35 foot boat, "Cabin Cruiser" too old fashioned, and "Yacht," well, I am not rich enough.

Do we have a picture of it?

[DeanMk]

Obviously there is no substantial relationship between a "Trawler" A fishing vessel which uses trawl gear to catch fish, and a "trawler yacht" which it essentially a motor yacht which is somewhat heavier than other normal motor yachts and navigates in displacement mode only when under weigh. A Trawler Yacht is primarily a markerting ploy, giving the potential customer the feeling of being substantial.
Why would a "trawler yacht" weigh any more than any other motor yacht?


Dean

[johnw]

Why would a "trawler yacht" weigh any more than any other motor yacht?


Dean

A displacement hull allows it to carry more weight.

[DeanMk]

Ok, but that still doesn't explain why a Trawler Yacht, specifially, would weigh any more than any other type of yacht.
Wouldn't weight be a factor of how each particular boat is outfitted?



Dean

[Bobcat]

Do we have a picture of it?

Here is a photo:
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh571/Leketoy/Leketoy.jpg

[johnw]

Ok, but that still doesn't explain why a Trawler Yacht, specifially, would weigh any more than any other type of yacht.
Wouldn't weight be a factor of how each particular boat is outfitted?



Dean

If you are going to outfit a boat for long-distance cruising, it's wise to choose a hull that can carry the weight. In general, the hull is dictated by how the boat must be outfitted for its intended purpose.

[DeanMk]

Here is a photo:
http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh571/Leketoy/Leketoy.jpg

Bob,

You're gonna hate me, but that's a cabin cruiser....and a very nice one, too.
Kinda reminds me of an Owens.


Dean

[DeanMk]

If you are going to outfit a boat for long-distance cruising, it's wise to choose a hull that can carry the weight. In general, the hull is dictated by how the boat must be outfitted for its intended purpose.
John,

I realize that, but its still no gurantee that a "Trawler yacht" is going to be any heavier than any other kind of yacht.
See what I'm saying?


Dean

[M. J. Notigan]

What defines a trawler? Well for me, it is the Bolger Microtrawler I am building! :) She will allow me to tuck into a little creek or feeder river around the Delaware River area I call my home waters. It will allow me to fire up my Dickinson solid fuel heater on a crisp and cool late October evening, watching the autumn sunset while enjoying a nice glass of Cabarnet. She will protect me from the cold and damp rains that may come outside, while inside her oil lamps flicker a warm glow. She will take me from one destination to another, safely. There are so many nooks and crannies to explore in our rivers that we don't need the ability to cross an ocean or a Great Lake in order to say we have "been there, done that!" Make a questionable crossing with her knowing of a coming weather front? Put her on the trailer and take her to the local put in point and then mess about in those local waters........Dreams of passagemaking should not be restricted to those well better moneyed then the majority of folks. It's all a matter of perspective! My advice: if you have any thoughts of attaining that dream: DO IT!

Take Care,
Mike

[TR]

A "Trawler Yacht" is whatever you want it to be....I've been involved in a boat sold as a "Fast Trawler" design that was nothing more than a recycled sportfisherman hull with funny windows. The term may have been relevant back in 1967 when Grand Banks first started building their 36' and 42' displacement cruisers. At that time both Edwin Monk and William Garden were using either "Diesel Cruiser" (Monk) or "Diesel Yacht" (Garden). Garden also used "Diesel Boat", which is to the point. The marketing folks didn't find these terms very catchy. Beebe reports that some referred to them as "Northwest Cruisers" but I never heard that used by anyone.

[Bobcat]

Bob,

You're gonna hate me, but that's a cabin cruiser....and a very nice one, too.
Kinda reminds me of an Owens.


Dean

Thanks! I like her too. And I think that cabin cruiser is probably the best description.

But looking at Tad's post above, I am going to go with "Diesel Cruiser;" She is a Monk design after all

[DeanMk]

What defines a trawler? Well for me, it is the Bolger Microtrawler I am building! :) She will allow me to tuck into a little creek or feeder river around the Delaware River area I call my home waters. It will allow me to fire up my Dickinson solid fuel heater on a crisp and cool late October evening, watching the autumn sunset while enjoying a nice glass of Cabarnet. She will protect me from the cold and damp rains that may come outside, while inside her oil lamps flicker a warm glow. She will take me from one destination to another, safely. There are so many nooks and crannies to explore in our rivers that we don't need the ability to cross an ocean or a Great Lake in order to say we have "been there, done that!" Make a questionable crossing with her knowing of a coming weather front? Put her on the trailer and take her to the local put in point and then mess about in those local waters........Dreams of passagemaking should not be restricted to those well better moneyed then the majority of folks. It's all a matter of perspective! My advice: if you have any thoughts of attaining that dream: DO IT!

Take Care,
Mike
Mike,

What a beautiful picture you've painted.
Here's hoping to many years of cruising in your dream machine. =)


Dean

[johnw]

Thanks! I like her too. And I think that cabin cruiser is probably the best description.

But looking at Tad's post above, I am going to go with "Diesel Cruiser;" She is a Monk design after all

Monk pretty much invented what he called the "troller yacht."

[johnw]

John,

I realize that, but its still no gurantee that a "Trawler yacht" is going to be any heavier than any other kind of yacht.
See what I'm saying?


Dean

The whole point of building a boat with the capacity to carry more weight is that the anticipated use requires the ability to carry more weight. Sure, you could gut the hull and save all kinds of weight, or outfit it like a big runabout, but what would be the point?

[Bobcat]

Monk pretty much invented what he called the "troller yacht."

I used to be a troll fisherman. I don't see Leketoy as a troller at all.

[johnw]

Not all of Monk's boats were trollers. This one is.


http://img.nauticexpo.com/images_ne/annonces-b/monk-converted-troller-yacht-131638_1.jpg

Monk did design actual trollers, and I'm not sure how far afield he went in adapting the boats to cruising. He certainly designed many boats he didn't call trollers or troller yachts.

[Bobcat]

I always was interested in the Trollers converted to pleasure boats, but did not end up with one

[TR]

Check the title block on the drawing. Edwin Monk would put "Troller" there if he intended the design to be a troller. Other boats intended for multiple fisheries were titled "Fishing Vessel". He just put "Cruiser" in the title block for the Roughwater 35. http://www.roughwater.com/content/images/35/brochure/35-drawing.jpg

[DeanMk]

The whole point of building a boat with the capacity to carry more weight is that the anticipated use requires the ability to carry more weight. Sure, you could gut the hull and save all kinds of weight, or outfit it like a big runabout, but what would be the point?
I feel we're both in agreement, we're just seeing this from two different angles.
SO, let me just state this, and if you still don't see what I'm trying to convey, then I give up, because I've run out of ways to say this.

Does potential equal fact?

If you can answer that, then you'll understand what I'm saying.




Dean

[Paul Pless]

Monk pretty much invented what he called the "troller yacht."And William Garden perfected the troller and trawler yachts. . .

http://www.tadroberts.ca/services/consulting/images/invader.jpg

as well as the yacht conversion. . .

http://boatsalemarket.com/wp-content/uploads/1948-william-garden-troller-conversion--1.jpg

[johnw]

I feel we're both in agreement, we're just seeing this from two different angles.
SO, let me just state this, and if you still don't see what I'm trying to convey, then I give up, because I've run out of ways to say this.

Does potential equal fact?

If you can answer that, then you'll understand what I'm saying.




Dean

This is becoming tiresome. Yes, you can equip such a vessel so it won't be heavy. However, these boats are designed to carry weight because their intended use involves carrying weight.

So, sure, I can see how you're looking at it, I just don't see the point of looking at it that way. If you want a lighter boat to travel at displacement speeds, why would you build a troller or trawler yacht, when you could more efficiently build a cabin cruiser like the Lake Union Dreamboat?

[DeanMk]

Say goodnight, JohnW.
FWIW, I see what you're saying and I could't agree more, but I think you've missed the point of this part of the discussion.
I'm done. I just don't know what else to do.
I do know I would like to have one of those old Lake Union cruisers...with a triple expansion "Marine Engine" ;)
I think one of those was moored over at the Bremerton Yacht Club, way back when. It was powered by a big Franklin six.
"opulent" didn't even begin to describe it.


Dean

[johnw]

Say goodnight, JohnW.
FWIW, I see what you're saying and I could't agree more, but I think you've missed the point of this part of the discussion.
I'm done. I just don't know what else to do.
I do know I would like to have one of those old Lake Union cruisers...with a triple expansion "Marine Engine" ;)
I think one of those was moored over at the Bremerton Yacht Club, way back when. It was powered by a big Franklin six.
"opulent" didn't even begin to describe it.


Dean

I've never heard of a Lake Union Dreamboat powered with a triple-expansion engine. They were built by Lake Union Drydock in the 1920s and '30s, by which time gasoline engines had pretty much taken over.

[DeanMk]

Yeah, neither have I, but wouldn't it be cool to have one.
There is an Elliot Bay Triple (http://www.steamlaunch.com/engines/elliott.html) that would work nicely in a boat of that size.


Elvis

[DeanMk]

JohnW,

M.J. Notagin told me about the company that makes his boat.
Turns out, they make a live-aboard FERRY BOAT (http://benford.us/ferry)! =)
How cool is that?!
Considering where we live, I thought this kind of "spoke" to us.



Dean

[johnw]

I've followed Jay Benford's designs since the 1970s. They always look cool, often in a quart-in-a-pint-pot sort of way, but they never have struck me as practical in the way Monk or Garden's boats are.

[DeanMk]

"Quart-in-a-pint".
LOL! Very apt description of his designs.
I still think that ferry boat is cool, but yeah, for a houseboat, a barge with an actual house on it would make more sense.



Dean

[johnw]

Only if you could find a place to moor it. The state is trying to get rid of liveaboards.

[DeanMk]

Yeah, they flipped that guy on Bainbridge so much $h!t i think he finally moved away.
Too bad. He wasn't hurtiing anyone. I guess "old Bainbridge" just ain't fashionable anymore.
What will happen to Lake Union?!
It literally is its boating community...and that includes the live-aboards!



Elvis