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View Full Version : Teaching myself how to cut dovetails, I ran across this wicked cool little saw.



Paul Pless
03-03-2012, 05:46 AM
Do these actually work?

http://lostartpress.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/peace2_img_5859.jpg

http://lostartpress.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/peace_img_5860.jpg?w=640&h=480

bob winter
03-03-2012, 05:50 AM
Strange looking thing. How does it work? Teeth don't seem to be fine enough for dovetail work.

Paul Pless
03-03-2012, 05:55 AM
Its just a pic I ripped from Schwarz's blog.

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/01/07/failed-experiments-in-dovetailing/

Meli
03-03-2012, 06:01 AM
teeth look way too coarse for fine work. maybe for cutting in framing.

PeterSibley
03-03-2012, 06:10 AM
That video by Frank Klausz is amazing !

Paul Pless
03-03-2012, 06:15 AM
That video by Frank Klausz is amazing !

you suck frank:d

botebum
03-03-2012, 06:44 AM
That video by Frank Klausz is amazing !Makes me feel like a complete hack:rolleyes:

Doug

Bill R
03-03-2012, 07:09 AM
After watching that video... I quit. Time to sell the tools and and take up bridge ore something.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
03-03-2012, 07:12 AM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31lzJo0jiRL.jpg
Irwin branded Takagi pullsaw (aka Sharksaw). 11-2214.

185mm - about 7" - of 22tpi and a 0.013" kerf - a finish cut like you would not believe.

botebum
03-03-2012, 07:35 AM
We use the Irwins all the time at work to cut pegs either flush or to a determined exposed length, depending on the customer's wishes. They work well for a while but, because of the very fine teeth, they don't last. I prefer my Vaughan Bear Saw for a "disposable" pull saw. It has a slightly bigger kerf which allows the teeth to be a bit more substantial. Here it is pictured with my Crown flush cut saw (top) and my Crown dovetail saw (middle).

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/botebum/Woodworks/002-1.jpg

Doug

Phillip Allen
03-03-2012, 07:46 AM
I watched the vedio... I hope all you guys have bad dreams now :)

botebum
03-03-2012, 08:06 AM
Great saws. The Shark version is 24TPI.Good, not great. If you consider them anything other than "disposable", you are fooling yourself.

Doug

Bruce Taylor
03-03-2012, 08:10 AM
Go Frank, go. :D Apparently, you can no longer buy the special blades that let him do that.

This guy makes his own:

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=229

botebum
03-03-2012, 08:16 AM
Of course they're "disposable." You think I'd sharpen one? Pinhead.They are "disposable" because the teeth completely wear off, not because they get dull and can't be sharpened. The Vaughan I showed is a better saw IMHO because, for about the same money, you get a saw that gives the same cuts and lasts longer.
You should try to refrain from acting like you know so much about tools when you are a comparative beginner.
Twit.

Doug

botebum
03-03-2012, 08:29 AM
... you're still in short pants, aren't you. Whenever possible.
Going to work naked is frowned upon.

Doug

Mrleft8
03-03-2012, 08:42 AM
LOL! The amount of time that guy spent, trying to save himself time he could have cut a lot of dovetails!

Bruce Taylor
03-03-2012, 08:49 AM
Back to the OP...I have no idea whether that gimmick would work, but unless you're cranking out furniture in volume, wasting the pins and tails is really not all that time-consuming. I do them on the bandsaw, usually, and clean up with a chisel (an incised marking line guides the chisel perfectly, so you really don't have to pay a lot of attention ;) ). It doesn't take all that long. Maybe four minutes, instead of three. :D Most of my pins are half-blind anyway, so the chisel does most of the work.

Bruce Taylor
03-03-2012, 08:52 AM
LOL! The amount of time that guy spent, trying to save himself time he could have cut a lot of dovetails!

You're talking about the blogger guy who was futzing around with his coping saw, right? That Frank Klausz works at a good clip, I'd say. :D

David G
03-03-2012, 09:31 AM
Pless,

No, that would not work. It's what's known as a 'compass saw'. It's designed for cutting rough curved lines in soft materials. Before rotozips... rockers used them to cut electrical box holes, and do custom fitting in sheetrock. Teeth are too coarse, and blade it too thick - yet, without a backer, is still too flexible.

Here's some dovetail saws:

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/products.asp?dept=86

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/images/279-8020B-lg.jpg

Mrleft8
03-03-2012, 09:34 AM
You're talking about the blogger guy who was futzing around with his coping saw, right? That Frank Klausz works at a good clip, I'd say. :D

Yeah.... Frank's pretty fast.... I bet Donn could do it faster with a belt sander though! :D

Mrleft8
03-03-2012, 09:36 AM
That saw that Slim has pictured is what we used to cut sheet rock with.... Before sheet rock, they were used to cut plaster and lath.

Bruce Taylor
03-03-2012, 09:45 AM
That saw that Slim has pictured is what we used to cut sheet rock with.... Before sheet rock, they were used to cut plaster and lath.

Dovetailed sheetrock...that's real craftsmanship.

Mrleft8
03-03-2012, 09:48 AM
Dovetailed sheetrock...that's real craftsmanship.

You jest in vain :D.... Believe it or not I was challenged to do just that, and I did! I think it earned me a beer. :D

Bruce Taylor
03-03-2012, 09:49 AM
Nah. I use my Foredom for dovetails.

I'd just as soon use my forehead. :D

Bruce Taylor
03-03-2012, 09:58 AM
Do you have a quick-change chuck for it?

Oh yeah, I can go from sombrero to derby in, like, ten seconds.

Paul Pless
03-03-2012, 11:35 AM
Pless,

No, that would not work. It's what's known as a 'compass saw'. It's designed for cutting rough curved lines in soft materials. Before rotozips... rockers used them to cut electrical box holes, and do custom fitting in sheetrock. Teeth are too coarse, and blade it too thick - yet, without a backer, is still too flexible.

Here's some dovetail saws:

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/products.asp?dept=86

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/images/279-8020B-lg.jpg

Oh. I know. I actually own a couple. I just thought the unusual tool was cool.

Bert Langley
03-03-2012, 12:06 PM
"If it is too tight don't force it, just get a bigger hammer". After watching that video I think I need to change hobbies and start over.

Paul Girouard
03-03-2012, 12:16 PM
Oh. I know. I actually own a couple. I just thought the unusual tool was cool.

So keeping up with your tag line eh!

Keith Wilson
03-03-2012, 12:40 PM
God help us, watching Frank Klausz cut dovetails . . .

OTOH, whatever I do there will be somebody somewhere who does it much, much better. I suppose I'd better get used to it.

ljb5
03-03-2012, 12:59 PM
Anyone know where I can get a compass saw with a right angle blade like that?

Nicholas Carey
03-03-2012, 01:33 PM
That video by Frank Klausz is amazing !

I have Frank Klausz' video from Fine Woodworking, Dovetail a Drawer with Frank Klausz (http://store.finewoodworking.com/dovetail-a-drawer-frank-klausz-061012.html).

Nothing like seeing him take a furniture carcase and build and fit a piston-fit drawer for it by hand, outside of milling the boards, in less than half an hour. Without using a measuring tape or ruler, IIRC.

I like the way he stacks up all four drawer sides on his workbench and chops the tails without damaging the workbench or the drawer side underneath the one he's working on.

David G
03-03-2012, 01:52 PM
Anyone know where I can get a compass saw with a right angle blade like that?

I didn't even notice that. Do-it-yourself job... for god knows what reason.

ljb5
03-03-2012, 02:05 PM
I didn't even notice that. Do-it-yourself job... for god knows what reason.

I think it's designed to let you make a right angle corner, like for a junction box opening.

Usually, I use a 1" spade bit to drill a hole inset from the corner, then use a keyhole saw to cut the sides and into the corners. A saw like that would let you start cutting out of the corner without drilling a hole.

A compass saw is usually pretty thick, owing to to the fact that it doesn't have a back. I don't know if I could bend one that well without damaging it.

Paul Girouard
03-03-2012, 02:33 PM
I think it's designed to let you make a right angle corner, like for a junction box opening.

Usually, I use a 1" spade bit to drill a hole inset from the corner, then use a keyhole saw to cut the sides and into the corners. A saw like that would let you start cutting out of the corner without drilling a hole.

A compass saw is usually pretty thick, owing to to the fact that it doesn't have a back. I don't know if I could bend one that well without damaging it.


How deep would the wall cavity be to allow that saw in PP's first post to be used as you described?

ljb5
03-03-2012, 02:38 PM
Maybe it's not for a wall.

Paul Girouard
03-03-2012, 02:45 PM
Maybe it's not for a wall.


Your right it's not, but your description of a junction box and how you cut in "junction" boxes, leads me to the conclusion you where cutting in a electrical handy box , in a wall thru GWB , but you're gong to contend it was some other type of junction box on the space shuttle , or some odd application.

So yes , you're right , you win.

SamSam
03-03-2012, 02:47 PM
The saw in the OP seems to have two different kinds of teeth.

botebum
03-03-2012, 02:50 PM
The saw in the OP seems to have two different kinds of teeth.Rip and crosscut?

Doug

ljb5
03-03-2012, 02:53 PM
Your right it's not, but your description of a junction box and how you cut in "junction" boxes, leads me to the conclusion you where cutting in a electrical handy box , in a wall thru GWB , but you're gong to contend it was some other type of junction box on the space shuttle , or some odd application.

I was looking for one for use on drywall.

I usually cut the holes for junction boxes before I screw the drywall to the wall.

The reason for that is because I don't usually like to drill a 1" spade bit or jam a keyhole saw into a wired junction box.

I'm not a drywall professional, but I have done it often enough to figure out a few ways that don't work.

Mrleft8
03-03-2012, 02:54 PM
The forward facing teeth are for starting the cut, much like the teeth on an ice saw.

Bruce Taylor
03-03-2012, 02:55 PM
Google turns up this pic from an old catalogue:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/BDSTaylor/Squareholesaw.jpg

http://mcglynnonmaking.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/dont-be-a-square/

Paul Girouard
03-03-2012, 02:57 PM
I was looking for one for use on drywall.

I usually cut the holes for junction boxes before I screw the drywall to the wall.

The reason for that is because I don't usually like to drill a 1" spade bit or jam a keyhole saw into a wired junction box.

Buy sheet rock saw , if you're cutting in outlet boxes before you hang the board , you can jamb the S/R saw thru the rock , cut the hole and be done with it. No drill motor , no 1" bit , time is money sonny. Don't break a nail or get your hands dirty college boy.

SamSam
03-03-2012, 03:03 PM
I think it's designed to let you make a right angle corner, like for a junction box opening.

Usually, I use a 1" spade bit to drill a hole inset from the corner, then use a keyhole saw to cut the sides and into the corners. A saw like that would let you start cutting out of the corner without drilling a hole.

A compass saw is usually pretty thick, owing to to the fact that it doesn't have a back. I don't know if I could bend one that well without damaging it.

You can use a drywall saw without a starting hole, the blade is thick and the end is pointed and can make it's own hole with a few whacks to punch it through.
http://www.texaspaint.com/images/VendorsAtoE/Advance/US21.jpg

Bruce Taylor
03-03-2012, 03:05 PM
Here ya go...

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/BDSTaylor/square-holesaw300w.jpg

ljb5
03-03-2012, 03:07 PM
Buy sheet rock saw , if you're cutting in outlet boxes before you hang the board , you can jamb the S/R saw thru the rock , cut the hole and be done with it. No drill motor , no 1" bit , time is money sonny. Don't break a nail or get your hands dirty college boy.

Like I said, I'm not a sheetrock professional. When I did my last house, I spent a full day getting the first six or eight sheets up. Finally got fed up and paid a crew of professionals to do a nice job on the rest of the house.

Like you said, time is money... and that job wasn't worth my time. It was about four guys working all week. Cost me a bit over $3k. I thought it was a good deal then and I don't regret it one bit.

I did, however, get a compliment from the guys who installed the counter on the double-vanity I made in the new bathroom. They said I did a better than average job of getting the wall plumb and flat.

SamSam
03-03-2012, 03:10 PM
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/BDSTaylor/square-holesaw300w.jpg

Does that come in metric sizes?

Durnik
03-03-2012, 08:04 PM
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/BDSTaylor/square-holesaw300w.jpg

Does that come in metric sizes?

It's got 4 pins & 4 slotted arms so it's adjustable.. but, no.. only SAE.. ;-)

enjoy
bobby

pipefitter
03-05-2012, 04:02 AM
I hung and finished drywall for over 20 years. That weird saw would not be of much use. If the ragged paper a saw makes is of no concern, might as well just use a roto-zip and be done with it. Can cut the round recessed light cans, door openings and windows while you are at it. By the first two or three cuts, you will most likely grasp the meaning of the term, "speed wobble", if you don't get your direction of travel correct for inside and outside cuts.

Oh and, don't plunge the roto-zip full bit into light boxes where the electricians wires reside. They really frown on that. Of course if they are lazy and leave their wires hanging part way out of the boxes, they deserve it.

stevebaby
03-05-2012, 04:27 AM
You jest in vain :D.... Believe it or not I was challenged to do just that, and I did! I think it earned me a beer. :DI believe ya.
Now pass that beer.

Old Dryfoot
03-05-2012, 10:09 AM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31lzJo0jiRL.jpg
Irwin branded Takagi pullsaw (aka Sharksaw). 11-2214.

185mm - about 7" - of 22tpi and a 0.013" kerf - a finish cut like you would not believe.

I have one of those under the Marples name brand and it is the best tool I ever paid less than $10 for.