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Paul Pless
01-21-2012, 10:18 PM
Note: These chisels have a metal ring, properly called a hoop, at the top of the handle, that serves no function on a boxwood handle and is prone to falling off. No original "London Pattern" handle had this feature and we do not agree with Sorby's decision to use it. We strongly recommend that you remove these metal rings when you get the chisels and discard them. Should you chose to leave the hoop on, we can not guarantee against them falling off. Because it tends to be more humid in Sheffield than in most of the US, they will always be loose. (Some old chisels came with an iron hoop on top to prevent mushrooming on ash handles. This metal ring does not serve that purpose.)

http://thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/sorby167.jpg

So why's that ring on there then?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-21-2012, 10:20 PM
I could modify those handles in an instant on a belt sander :D

Paul Pless
01-21-2012, 10:23 PM
:d ...


So I'm cleaning up this Unisaw and it has a deep patterned stain on the table top that I've been unable to polish out with a R/O sander. I just can't bring myself to hit it with the belt sander yet. . .

Phillip Allen
01-21-2012, 10:23 PM
http://thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/sorby167.jpg

So why's that ring on there then?

marketing... one can sell 'some' people anything, with the right marketing approach

skuthorp
01-21-2012, 10:26 PM
Probably because it looks good, but maybe because most buyers do not own a wooden mallet, only a metal claw hammer of dubious quality.

Paul Pless
01-21-2012, 10:28 PM
marketing... one can sell 'some' people anything, with the right marketing approach



maybe. . .

On the other hand, Sorby has been around along time (200 + years) and they've not been known for making gimmicky tools. . .

Paul Pless
01-21-2012, 10:29 PM
Probably because it looks good, but maybe because most buyers do not own a wooden mallet, only a metal claw hammer of dubious quality.

That's what I'm wondering, why doesn't that ring serve the function of a traditional hoop if seated properly. . .

Phillip Allen
01-21-2012, 10:29 PM
maybe. . .

On the other hand, Sorby has been around along time (200 + years) and they've not been known for making gimmicky tools. . .

different people are making decisions than there used to be

Chris Coose
01-21-2012, 10:29 PM
If I was banging that chisel with a 3 lb. maul that ring might keep the wood from spliting.

Phillip Allen
01-21-2012, 10:30 PM
That's what I'm wondering, why doesn't that ring serve the function of a traditional hoop if seated properly. . .

annodized aluminimum (likely)

SMARTINSEN
01-21-2012, 10:35 PM
Likely not, Phillip. Probably steel or brass. 5200 would perfectly ideal to permanently affix the hoops--bombproof yet flexible.

Meli
01-21-2012, 10:35 PM
Um I'm guessing that it's to stop the grain in the handle splitting/fragmenting with regular use.
Once upon a time people used chisels to make mortices in seasoned oak. you have to hit it pretty hard even with a mallet and a set of 12 chairs and a table is quite a lot of mortice and tenons.
A lot of my old chisels have a ring.

On the other hand, that chisel looks too pretty to be true. Maybe Sorby are marketing to the "gentleman" woodworker these days.
You know the ones that make inlaid cabinets to keep them in :D

peter radclyffe
01-22-2012, 12:50 AM
that ring is for forums

johnw
01-22-2012, 01:15 AM
I suspect Sorby has seen the tool after use by their customers, and decided the ring served the same purpose as on an ash handle, but in the hands of Biggerhammer & Sons, The Expedient Craftsmen.

BrianW
01-22-2012, 01:24 AM
It's "my precious"...

johnw
01-22-2012, 01:32 AM
One ring to true them all?

David G
01-22-2012, 02:23 AM
Paul,

I do believe you're operating under a faulty assumption. That is: that the person who wrote the little blurb knows what she's talking about. She doesn't. No matter what material the handle is made from... people will strike it with a mallet. That style of chisel is strong enough to take the abuse. Though... if I planned on wailing on it regularly... Sorby probably makes a similar chisel with some sort of plastic handle. Boxwood takes a more skilled hand on the mallet. The hoops look to be brass - which is sufficient unto the task. They might have a point about humidity and ring looseness... but that's easily remedied in a variety of ways. Who DID write that snippy little blurb, anyway? Sounds like some pretentious little snot trying to pass themselves off as a gourmet tool expert without actually having the background <sigh>

Meli
01-22-2012, 02:27 AM
She?

johnw
01-22-2012, 02:35 AM
Paul,

I do believe you're operating under a faulty assumption. That is: that the person who wrote the little blurb knows what she's talking about. She doesn't. No matter what material the handle is made from... people will strike it with a mallet. That style of chisel is strong enough to take the abuse. Though... if I planned on wailing on it regularly... Sorby probably makes a similar chisel with some sort of plastic handle. Boxwood takes a more skilled hand on the mallet. The hoops look to be brass - which is sufficient unto the task. They might have a point about humidity and ring looseness... but that's easily remedied in a variety of ways. Who DID write that snippy little blurb, anyway? Sounds like some pretentious little snot trying to pass themselves off as a gourmet tool expert without actually having the background <sigh>
Yeah, funny you should say she. Sounds like the Jack Black character in "High Fidelity."

landlocked sailor
01-22-2012, 03:09 AM
I had a set of these chisels for years before upgrading. They really were pretty good tools but I completely agree with the statement; the "hoops" were light gauge brass that either fell off or split. These are not cheap consumer grade chisels so I doubt many users would be wailing on them with a steel hammer. Vestigal. Rick

landlocked sailor
01-22-2012, 03:16 AM
Here is a nice pattern from Ashley Iles
Rickhttp://thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/ashley_iles_short.jpg

PeterSibley
01-22-2012, 04:44 AM
Probably because it looks good, but maybe because most buyers do not own a wooden mallet, only a metal claw hammer of dubious quality.

My claw hammer is of excellent quality ! I use yellow plastic handled Stanley chisels..... they just love claw hammers.:d

Michael D. Storey
01-22-2012, 07:53 AM
Well, what I notice is that the handle has four corners. My hand no longer does. I much prefer a handle more hand-shaped

Mrleft8
01-22-2012, 08:46 AM
Decoration.

Phillip Allen
01-22-2012, 09:15 AM
it ain't the (fancy) tools that make the craftsman...

RonW
01-22-2012, 09:18 AM
As chris coose said, the ring is to keep the handle from splitting..

Mrleft8
01-22-2012, 09:23 AM
Why would the handle on a chisel split?

RonW
01-22-2012, 09:26 AM
Why would the handle on a chisel split?

The grain of the wood, from constant beating...The ring holds the wood together as beating will eventually mushroom the head.

Mrleft8
01-22-2012, 09:49 AM
Ah.... Beating on a chisel..... Riiiiiiiiiight. I'd forgotten that people do dumb things like that.... No sense in sharpening the chisel when you can just get a bigger hammer, and hit it harder!

botebum
01-22-2012, 10:00 AM
Why would the handle on a chisel split?Tool abuse/misuse. Hitting it harder than (should be) necessary, hitting it with anything other than a wood mallet, hitting it with glancing blows, etc.
I always stress to new guys the proper use of the framing chisels at work. Inevitably, they hit them with waffle head framing hammers, use them as levers, use them to drive home metal knife plates, and on and on and on. Their ingenuity in finding new ways to destroy a quality tool is unlimited.

Doug

landlocked sailor
01-22-2012, 10:19 AM
Again, the ring on the Sorby chisels is a thin piece of brass. It would not serve to prevent any splitting of the boxwood handles. Lee Richmond's statements on this issue (and any other I have ever read) is spot on. Rick

Mrleft8
01-22-2012, 10:59 AM
Like I said.... Decoration.

Paul Girouard
01-22-2012, 11:12 AM
Boats did you get that Barr chisel??

botebum
01-22-2012, 11:15 AM
Not yet. I need it but there's a few financial priorities in the way. Maybe next week.

I'm (slowly) setting aside some money to pay back a few generous people from here as well.

Doug

botebum
01-22-2012, 11:46 AM
Thanks to Paul Pless and Paul Girouard for bringing to my attention a post by Canoeyawl regarding a chisel that I had missed while out of town.
I have located the post and PM'd him.
You guys rock!Y>

Doug

Bob Smalser
01-22-2012, 02:36 PM
I have to agree with David that the author comes up short here.

Chisel nomenclature varied significantly by manufacturer and region. "Hoops" are also correctly called "striking rings"..."bench" chisels verus "firmer" chisels versus "cabinetmaker's chisels", etc ad nauseum. Sweeping generalizations don't apply.

It is unusual to see a striking ring on a tang chisel, however. Chisels designed to take heavy blows were traditionally socket chisels. But in the big manufacturing revolution from forged to investment-cast in the 1960's, traditional sockets became too expensive. Hence you see what appears to be a half-assed socket on this current chisel, but if you were to dismantle it you'd see it was a tang chisel.





Note: These chisels have a metal ring, properly called a hoop, at the top of the handle, that serves no function on a boxwood handle and is prone to falling off. No original "London Pattern" handle had this feature and we do not agree with Sorby's decision to use it. We strongly recommend that you remove these metal rings when you get the chisels and discard them. Should you chose to leave the hoop on, we can not guarantee against them falling off. Because it tends to be more humid in Sheffield than in most of the US, they will always be loose. (Some old chisels came with an iron hoop on top to prevent mushrooming on ash handles. This metal ring does not serve that purpose.)



PS. There are no shortages of tool collectors and tool vendors who don't really understand tools...because they don't understand wood. For example complaining about combo planes designed to work only on tight-ringed vertical-grain softwoods when used on lesser cuts of wood.

David G
01-22-2012, 02:40 PM
She?

No significance. Just like to mix it up occasionally.

botebum
01-22-2012, 02:55 PM
... you see what appears to be a half-assed socket on this current chisel, but if you were to dismantle it you'd see it was a tang chisel.My boss has a Japanese or Chinese(I forget which) made framing chisel with a combination tang and socket arrangement. The tang is part of the blade and shank piece. The socket is a separate piece altogether. I found this out when he asked me to replace the handle on it.

To assemble- The handle is bored to accept the square tang. The handle is then inserted into the separate socket and then driven onto the tang. The socket surrounds the wood which surrounds the tang so it's sort of the best of both worlds and the worst at the same time. Mostly the worst.

If the handle slacks up on the tang then this allows the socket and shank to separate just enough for a bit of your palm to slip in just before you whack the chisel with your mallet. Result- The most painful @#$%^&* blood blister you've ever had!

Removing the old handle will result in breaking every small drill bit in your shop trying to remove the wood inside the socket from around the shank so you can disassemble the two.

If anyone comes across one of these evil bastards in their hunt for a chisel- Run! Run like hell in the other direction!

Doug

James McMullen
01-22-2012, 03:04 PM
It is also argued the octagonal handle fits the human hand better than any other shape:


Oh, you are so wrong. The best possible handle to fit a human hand, as dictated by Almighty GOD himself, would be banana shaped!

Incontrovertable proof right here, buddy. Checkmate!


http://youtu.be/2z-OLG0KyR4

peter radclyffe
01-22-2012, 03:29 PM
Again, the ring on the Sorby chisels is a thin piece of brass. It would not serve to prevent any splitting of the boxwood handles. Lee Richmond's statements on this issue (and any other I have ever read) is spot on. Rick
it is to stop splitting