PDA

View Full Version : Shanty Boats



BBSebens
01-08-2012, 08:54 PM
So, lets discuss this idea. I think its fantastic!

Being a younger guy of the current technologic generation, I am finding that I really appreciate being able to get away and "un-plug". This concept of a shanty boat makes a lot of sense in the PNW and San Juan Islands where the waves don't generally get that big.

Imagine this: Build yourself one of these shanty boats and a mini-tug. Tow the shanty boat like a barge with your tug-boat, drop a big anchor, and then you have a home-base that you can explore from. You keep all the gear in "The Barge" and set up the tug for exploring! How fun is that?! And you can play Tug-Boat just like the big boys!


Another, crazier idea. What if you could pull your shanty boat over the the ramp, float it onto a flat-bed trailer, and make it into a travel trailer. More or less the same concept isn't it? Could make a great travel base for those people who want a boat and an RV but, don't actually want to have both.

Breakaway
01-08-2012, 08:58 PM
Yup. Now we need a " The Perfect Shanty Boat Tender" thread.


Kevin

Hunky Dory
01-08-2012, 11:54 PM
[QUOTE=Breakaway;3262774]Yup. Now we need a " The Perfect Shanty Boat Tender" thread.

One without a motor?

Gib Etheridge
01-08-2012, 11:58 PM
Go for it!

tomlarkin
01-09-2012, 12:38 AM
I've actually thought seriously about this exact idea. I built the perfect tug and I've been looking at shanty boats for a while. My thought was to have built in lifting points and have it lifted onto a small flat-bed trailer when it's not being used. I've towed a few boats around the lake and think towing a barge would be a lot of fun. Pulling it through the locks might be a challenge though. The shanty boat needs a roof-rack to hold the windsurfer and kayaks, and a really excellent anchoring system if the tug will hang off of it at anchor.

Ethan
01-09-2012, 02:00 AM
I have a buddy who did almost what you're describing.

About 10 years ago, he and his brother built an "economy" version of an Atkin Retreat and used it, along with a Boston Whaler tender, to fish and lounge about in the Florida Keys. They couldn't go anywhere fast or where the waves got too big, but it was a great concept when utilized within its limits. Definitely served as a means to escape the mainland craziness, a situation that has only worsened in the years since.

For transport, they placed both onto a flat bed that they pulled with a 3/4 ton pickup. Obviously, the on/off loading required a small travel lift, but as this was a once or twice a year 1-week trip, that was more economical than anything they could devise in terms of self launching/recovery.

They even retrofitted an acrylic panel into the bottom of the Retreat (after 2-3 years of use), hung dive lights over the side at night, and enjoyed the show. My only personal experience with the boat in water was salvaging the pieces off Islamorada after it had become an artificial reef in about 6 feet of water lol! Nobody will admit exactly what happened, but I have some ideas. Anyway, all pieces recovered so no environmental incident.

Matt, shantyboats are once again coming into their own. More and more, people are looking to get onto the water in them for a number of reasons. And not just on the coast - I had the chance to fly down the Tennessee River valley last summer and was amazed at how many shantyboats were on the water. Literally hundreds, exclusive of the more tradtional houseboats. The article on Harry's boat was a great start, but left there I think you'd be missing a prime opportunity to take it a little further. Possible ideas would be analyses of other designs (not a rehash of what's been done before), an article about the design challenges that need to be addressed in order to combine economy and livability, and location pieces that show the unique and creative ways people are enjoying them.

Thanks for this new section, btw. I'm betting it will produce more than a few gems that will find their way onto the magazine's pages. Please keep up the great work.

skuthorp
01-09-2012, 04:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF5enf9VsU0

Breakaway
01-09-2012, 10:23 AM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/icons/icon1.png Re: Shanty Boats
[QUOTE=Breakaway;3262774]Yup. Now we need a " The Perfect Shanty Boat Tender" thread.

One without a motor?






Well, you could hang an outboard on the shanty, or build a well, and make it self-propelled. Then you could tow a rowing skiff as in Skuthorp's video above. Or you could a variety of power boats--from a 10-foot skiff to a runabout type boat--to tow the non-powered shanty. It would depend on what your vision for the exact use would be, and of course your location. For instance areas with more current, would require a more powerful tender maybe.

Kevin

Bobcat
01-09-2012, 10:34 AM
I really like this idea. I do see that waterfront property owners will raise hell if a shanty boat anchors for an extended period in front of their expensive beach.

BBSebens
01-09-2012, 11:23 PM
I've actually thought seriously about this exact idea. I built the perfect tug and I've been looking at shanty boats for a while. My thought was to have built in lifting points and have it lifted onto a small flat-bed trailer when it's not being used. I've towed a few boats around the lake and think towing a barge would be a lot of fun. Pulling it through the locks might be a challenge though. The shanty boat needs a roof-rack to hold the windsurfer and kayaks, and a really excellent anchoring system if the tug will hang off of it at anchor.

Tom, I was actually thinking of you and Coot when I thought of this idea. I hadn't thought about the Locks, since i've never been through them. But that would be fun!

A shanty boat like the one on the cover of WB with a few toys on the roof and an extra large anchor would be really fun.

Greg Nolan
01-10-2012, 12:37 AM
I do see that waterfront property owners will raise hell if a shanty boat anchors for an extended period in front of their expensive beach.

With regard to salt water, in most jurisdictions the beach below mean high water is usually publicly owned, as is the underwater land in front of privately-owned waterfront property. The 1% may own most waterfront property, but they generally do not own the water, the water's edge, or the underwater land -- that belongs to the 99%. Of course, there may be restrictions on any anchoring, not just long-term, for a variety of reasons, including the need to keep waters open for safe navigation.

Ian McColgin
01-10-2012, 07:56 AM
I lived briefly on a shanty on a slough off the Willamette back in the '70s. Not a nice modern shanty but a cottage on a log raft. It was a fun marginal sort of community, which I in general like, but there were unresolved environmental problems that, to judge from the plans listed, remain unresolved. Proper handling of human waste, sometimes including grey water, matters. Even really good solutions, like the AirHead composting toilet, leave the nitrogen problem of urine disposal a bit adrift. These are things that are not a problem in isolation. The world is not harmed by one person exercising the 'Sea Dog's Prerogative" at dawn. But a colony . . . .

Like many, I've doodled shantey boats, especially inspired by Atkins' Retreat, and like many I've toyed with how to put some attractive curve to those remorselessly straight lines. The lead article shows that this can be done just fine. Lovely.

JonWilson
01-10-2012, 11:08 AM
I've loved Shanty Boats since the days of The American Boys Handy Book (first published in 1882). My friend Paul Sullivan built one with and for his son Henry, and they had a lot of fresh water fun with it. But these times call for a new and trailerable variation, which can effectively double as a travel trailer, as a few of you have mentioned. A little like what Farhnam Butler and Cy Hamlin attempted to do with the Amphibi-Con (for which the WB Store sells plans), but that's an amphibious Boat, not a Shanty. We need a Shanty design contest, don't we?

BBSebens
01-10-2012, 12:11 PM
In regards to trailering the shanty, I think it would be neat if you could make the whole boat the trailer.

Heres what I mean: Assuming your prepared to get wet, axles could be mounted to appropriately constructed hard point in the hull. Basically, a few places to pin in the leaf springs. Then, install the tongue into the bow, and out it comes. Hook up brakes when out of the water. Lights could easily be apart of the whole thing.

I wonder what the DOL would make of trying to license something as a boat and a trailer.

Bobcat
01-10-2012, 02:21 PM
I've loved Shanty Boats since the days of The American Boys Handy Book (first published in 1882). My friend Paul Sullivan built one with and for his son Henry, and they had a lot of fresh water fun with it. But these times call for a new and trailerable variation, which can effectively double as a travel trailer, as a few of you have mentioned. A little like what Farhnam Butler and Cy Hamlin attempted to do with the Amphibi-Con (for which the WB Store sells plans), but that's an amphibious Boat, not a Shanty. We need a Shanty design contest, don't we?

Agreed

And I seem to remember a boat that had axles that bolted on to make it a trailer

Jon, I get such a kick seeing you listed as "Junior Member".......|:)

Ian McColgin
01-10-2012, 02:27 PM
Atkins had a plan for turning Retreat into a trailor. Not so clear is just how much fun one would have either bolting it on or taking it off depending on whether one's hauling out or launching. I think it makes more sense to have a flatbed trailor with one of those low friction coatings or a bunch of small rollers. Such a trailor could be handy for other chores when not carrying the shanty and in any event not much more of a pain to store than some sort of bolt on axel, springs and tow tang.

BBSebens
01-10-2012, 03:34 PM
As always Ian, an excellent point.

Ethan
01-10-2012, 06:12 PM
+1 for the design contest

Bob Cleek
01-10-2012, 08:33 PM
Another, crazier idea. What if you could pull your shanty boat over the the ramp, float it onto a flat-bed trailer, and make it into a travel trailer. More or less the same concept isn't it? Could make a great travel base for those people who want a boat and an RV but, don't actually want to have both.

I'm afraid it's been done!

http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/4844175641774830.JPG?0.7108088824790366

http://www.rvtraveler.com/images/terrainwater.jpg

The 45-foot Terra Wind travels both on the road and on water thanks to wheels for the road and propellers and a rudder while on water. The manufacturers will soon also offer a trailer to tow behind the rig whether on land or water. It will carry a car plus a golf cart or jet ski, and double as a "party barge" with a flat roof for sunning and use as a diving platform. Each motorcoach is custom-built with a price tag of between $850,000 and $1.2 million. The coach is 102 inches wide just like its land-locked cousins, diesel-powered and includes a 110-gallon fresh water holding tank, plus an unlimited supply outside the coach available by bucket. The price does not include fishing tackle, and presumably the coach is not fast enough to pull a water skier.

Woxbox
01-10-2012, 08:36 PM
Yep, I'd like to see this as a contest too -- especially with the partner tug requirement.
Extra points for powering the tug with wood.
More extra points for including a sauna option.

BBSebens
01-10-2012, 10:36 PM
I'm afraid it's been done!

http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/4844175641774830.JPG?0.7108088824790366

http://www.rvtraveler.com/images/terrainwater.jpg

The 45-foot Terra Wind travels both on the road and on water thanks to wheels for the road and propellers and a rudder while on water. The manufacturers will soon also offer a trailer to tow behind the rig whether on land or water. It will carry a car plus a golf cart or jet ski, and double as a "party barge" with a flat roof for sunning and use as a diving platform. Each motorcoach is custom-built with a price tag of between $850,000 and $1.2 million. The coach is 102 inches wide just like its land-locked cousins, diesel-powered and includes a 110-gallon fresh water holding tank, plus an unlimited supply outside the coach available by bucket. The price does not include fishing tackle, and presumably the coach is not fast enough to pull a water skier.


I wish I didn't all ready know about this. Im a car enthusiast and a boater, and this thing does little more than make me gag. UGH...



Yep, I'd like to see this as a contest too -- especially with the partner tug requirement.
Extra points for powering the tug with wood.
More extra points for including a sauna option.

Design contest with partner tug! Excellent idea!! Imagine a Tug-Integrated-Barge! Only slightly less ridiculous than the floating palace above...

Wavewacker
01-11-2012, 01:09 PM
Bolger has a catamaran that used a bolt on bow and has a lift top, a small cabin cruiser type. Now, instead of all windows, use more solid walls and smaller windows for energy efficiency to live on. Unbolt one of the bow sections (made a little longer) and there is the dingy...

I'm kinda considering a garvey bow with a cabin. About 30' with a 25/40 hp. Fold down cat walks with rails. Similar to the canal boats with a large aft deck, mostly covered with winch crane set up. Then build a minature for the dingy, sit on the roof of the minature (being a storage box).....LOL

Breakaway
01-11-2012, 09:30 PM
I'm kinda considering a garvey bow with a cabin. About 30' with a 25/40 hp. Fold down cat walks with rails

Here are your plans!
http://www.bateau.com/prodimages/GT27_350.jpg

http://www.bateau.com/images/boatpics/GT27_acc_450.JPG
http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/GT27_study.htm?prod=GT27


Kevin

Jim Bow
01-12-2012, 05:30 PM
Somewhere in my dim past I either saw or read about a fellow who built a shanty on some sort of landing craft. He kept an old Willys aboard and would drop the ramp where it was do-able and head inland for groceries and stuff. Got a feeling it might have been in the Whole Earth Catalogue in the early 70s. Nice outfit.

CWSmith
01-12-2012, 07:30 PM
I like where I live, but if I were in Virginia this would be my Inland Waterway and Dismal Swamp Canal getaway boat. That said, I have a friend who thinks this would be great on the Great Bay here in NH.

Woxbox
01-12-2012, 08:02 PM
There was a series a few years ago in Small Boat Journal about a couple of guys who kept a shanty boat behind Plum Island in Massachusetts. They'd moor it back there in the spring and leave it sitting there to use as they had time until fall. I seem to recall that they had a tin skiff of some sort to get to it and tow it out and back.

Makes lots of sense to me. Such a boat probably needs to have a real low-rent look to it to keep the vandals and thieves away.

Breakaway
01-13-2012, 03:47 PM
Here an idea, albeit in aluminum, but I imagine the concept could be realized in wood: The boats twin hulls are connected by a sliding bar that allows an 8-foot beam for trailering but expands to 11 feet for cruising; the "house" is some sort of flexible/fabric.


http://vimeo.com/34309737

Kevin

Ian McColgin
01-13-2012, 04:11 PM
It's not a shanty boat unless you could happily take a northeaster next to a clam flat in February.

Breakaway
01-13-2012, 08:26 PM
I dont know, Ian. I think with the house "retracted" she'd lie head to wind as well as many. Of course it loses points for looking more like a Sno Cat than a boat.Keivn

SScoville
01-14-2012, 08:25 AM
I commissioned a 27 foot planing, houseboat/cruiser from Devlin a few years ago - his Lingcod 27. After much thought and after stepping aboard a 20x8 shantyboat, I realized the shanty boat made much more sense to me. First, I would not need a full size truck to pull it. It would cost much less to build and own. Going aboard one, I realized that there was plenty of room in a 20x8 barge type boat - plenty. The other issue I struggled with was this idea of a tender. I want an outboard skiff large enough for 3 to fish from to use as a tender. With a planing boat, you'd need to either stow the boat aboard or tow at displacement speed. So, unless the cruiser is very large, you're back to displacement speed. I had some lumber on hand and Harry Bryan was selling his plans for 20 dollars at the time, so I started one.

Why not use a boat trailer instead of a flatbed?

Here's my new problem: I'm going to have to trailer 2 boats to the landing if I take a skiff along. I plan to use an outboard for the shanty boat.

Ian McColgin
01-14-2012, 10:27 AM
My thought of flatbed was two-fold: To spread the stress on what's mostly a large flat bottom; and to make for a more multi-use trailor. Whether flat bed or boat trailor, the shanty boat is large and heavy enough to require some serious changes to any suitable boat trailor. For less money and less work a series of bolt-on roller bunks could be added to a flatbed. Both boat trailors and flatbeds have easy tilt options that could much facilitate getting the unit up on a shallow ramp.

But depending on what deals there are around on what trailors, it's six to one, half dozen the other.

Ethan
01-14-2012, 02:53 PM
Well.....kinda. The thought I'd add to Ian's last post is tilt trailers don't like to have items winched onto them when elevated with the winch afixed to the elevated end. In my experience, the dislike increases proportionally with elevation. Single hydrauic cylinder not designed for side loads, do you see, as oppossed to a roll back tow truck that is designed for such loads. Impossible, or even bad in all situations? No. But you'd have to pick your ramps with that fact in mind.

Breakaway
01-14-2012, 02:56 PM
I wouldnt use a tilt bed. Some rollers or slick plastic bunks: back up and hit the brakes.

Kevin

Ethan
01-14-2012, 02:57 PM
I wouldnt use a tilt bed. Some rollers or slick plastic bunks: back up and hit the brakes.

Kevin

That'd work..........once.

Breakaway
01-14-2012, 03:06 PM
Been working for me for about thirty years launching 10 x 16/18 floating duckblinds. YMMV.

Kevin

Ethan
01-15-2012, 12:04 AM
Lol....OK......but.......

I presume your blinds are fabric? I'd think the rigid cabin structure of a shantyboat, with a progressive moment from the axis of decel when the hull hit the water, would experience some "issues" haha.

Could you post a pic of your rig, Kevin? I think it's an interesting approach and I'd like to understand it better!

Breakaway
01-15-2012, 12:24 AM
Nope. Ply on frame barges, complete with raking ends and a bilge, fiberglassed. Atop this is a stickbuilt house, sheathed in painted plywood, and surrounded by rails into which we install the grass for camo. Inside is a bench with folding backrest for storage, two tiers of shelving, a locker and room for four men, a dog and a couple of kerpo heaters etc.

Didnt mean to sound abrubt, my point is that if you gently back up and tap the brakes, you can get the boat off without the complexity of a tilt trailer. In fact, if its real shallow, tilt is a hindrance, cuz you may bottom out before you get off. Again, just my experience. Here are some pics of the smallest of the three blinds I hunt, after launching for this season.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Gm31hJnlAho/TxJv7WBPTKI/AAAAAAAAALE/taOVIRjpKHY/h120/Aslap_1.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YJKIB39kfsY/TxJv8HYV1ZI/AAAAAAAAALM/Ny923AamHLs/h301/Aslap-2.JPG

Kevin




Retry
Remove
Cancel

Ian McColgin
01-15-2012, 06:46 AM
Holy shotgun, Nimrod! More than the average blind. Amazing.

Garret
01-15-2012, 09:57 AM
A tender idea - why not use a miniature push tug? Basically a yawl boat (complete with ropework on the stem of course) that nestles into a small concave section of the transom - obviously the frame of the shantyboat would have to be designed to handle the forces.

Attach cables/ropes/straps from the outer edges of the transom to the yawl boat & off you go. The yawl boat would not have to be hugely heavy for something like this & might be fairly economical for puttering about if powered by a small diesel. Some work would be needed for visibility: retractable tower on the yawl boat? Trapeze setup with a tiller extension? Wouldn't that get looks! Or - you could go high tech & mount a backup camera on the bow of the shantyboat. Guess it wouldn't be a backup camera then....

Trailer: It seems to me that the forces on a trailer are quite different from those on a boat in the water. Why not make a trailer that's basically a wide frame with padded angle iron along the outer edge, a few cross members that line up with frames & then strap/bolt the shanty down on the trailer? Seems to me that building that might well be cheaper & stronger than building in attachment timbers that can handle the spring attachment points.

I gotta say that the whole shantyboat thing has me thinking - so thanks to WB for the article!

Jim Ledger
01-15-2012, 10:44 AM
Here's my shanty boat and tug in 1978. Kevin, you might recognize the location.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/houseboatandclamboat.jpg

Breakaway
01-15-2012, 11:01 AM
Here's my shanty boat an tug in 1978. Kevin, you might recognize the location.

I'm going to say near Triton Lane....The Barge.

Kevin

Jim Ledger
01-15-2012, 12:12 PM
It was tied up behind the Barge in 1976, but this picture was taken a little west of there, opposite Round Dune. There was a little building on the bay side called the Sail Loft.

Breakaway
01-15-2012, 08:24 PM
It was tied up behind the Barge in 1976, but this picture was taken a little west of there,




Ok, so that's ( what I call) Greenback Island in the background, left. Cool.


Kevijn

Woxbox
01-15-2012, 08:52 PM
Some work would be needed for visibility: retractable tower on the yawl boat? Trapeze setup with a tiller extension?

Up periscope!

Actually, an autopilot remote is all you need. Then you can relax with a cup of coffee on the shanty foredeck, or behind that grand, forward-facing picture window when the weather turns inclement. What about the throttle, you ask? Install one of these beauties, and let the engineer take care of the rest.

http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://b.mp-farm.com/b/500x450.watermarks/1100000/1191613.jpg&sa=X&ei=kpITT9-2G6rz0gGGgPm7Aw&ved=0CAsQ8wc4Pg&usg=AFQjCNHc7yKzHtDyChvIXQQMz9WEKheZTg

Mad Scientist
01-16-2012, 02:26 PM
Not an autopilot; just one of those voice tubes (partly visible at the right of the photo) to augment the engine telegraph, and the crew aft with the outboard. You get to enjoy the fresh air and view; your crew gets to 'enjoy' the noise and fumes.

Gotta love tradition!

Tom

Garret
01-16-2012, 04:50 PM
Not an autopilot; just one of those voice tubes (partly visible at the right of the photo) to augment the engine telegraph, and the crew aft with the outboard. You get to enjoy the fresh air and view; your crew gets to 'enjoy' the noise and fumes.

Gotta love tradition!

Tom

I like it! Make sure the crew wears greasy overalls too?

Hwyl
01-16-2012, 04:57 PM
I like it! Make sure the crew wears greasy overalls too?

My dear chap,spotless white overalls and white carpet in the engine room. Don't you know nuthin?

Garret
01-16-2012, 05:11 PM
My dear chap,spotless white overalls and white carpet in the engine room. Don't you know nuthin?

You gots a higher klass boat than I do.... However, I'll strive to upgrade to at least dingy white.

Hwyl
01-16-2012, 05:15 PM
On a serious note, Bolger made his houseboats look like boats, partly for the reason that they would be more accepted by the neighbours. Littoral rights are complicated and people do get moved on. Ian's(I think) point about the holding tank is valid and worrisome,some anchorages have a pump out boat available.

Of course if you had Garret's dedicated yawl boat, you could put the holding tank in that, connections would be like hooking up a semi trailer.

A couple of months ago , Carl Cramer posted a video in Wooden boat of the week called PechaKucha, the first speaker is Eric Sponberg, his ideas look a little unwieldy, but he effectively says that everyone who is looking at a house boat has been influenced by "sleepless in Seatle" , here's the video

http://vimeo.com/31140149

Here's the houseboat, it was for sale for $2.5m

http://www.zillow.com/blog/files/2008/04/sleepless-in-seattle.png

Old Dryfoot
01-16-2012, 06:54 PM
I've dreamed of living aboard for better than 30 years now and I've never seen Sleepless In Seattle so that theory is out the window.

On the topic of making a boaty looking houseboat, how about something that borrows from the Benford Florida Bay Drifters? They were designed to be a simple and affordable live aboard and drawn along the lines of the Florida Bay Coasters.

A simple barge hull with some shape to the ends and then a house imitating something like this?

36 footer...
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F-wS9AqY2YQ/TxTDMAslF3I/AAAAAAAAAWA/6sWZumhyz6E/s800/Picture.jpg

42 foot
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ut0FEmivlIU/TxTDSEdOgYI/AAAAAAAAAWQ/s_MP_J4Ht8o/s800/Picture 003.jpg

Another Benford design that is well suited to a live aboard would be Square One, a pram on steroids according to the designer.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t-cbckFV2us/TxTDPdYOpRI/AAAAAAAAAWI/wMfQRIfiloU/s800/Picture 002.jpg

Then to continue off on a tangent with the Benford designs there are his delightful 30, 34, and 45 foot Ferries. I don't think any of these are in the real spirit of a Shanty boat however but they are fun to look at and daydream about.

BBSebens
01-16-2012, 07:12 PM
I would set mine up pretty much just like a travel trailer. For my kind of usage, Im not going to park it in one place for weeks or months on end. I imagine being at anchor for a few days, maybe a week. After that, I think its probably time to visit a marina, replenish supplies, empty/fill tanks, and get a proper shower. With a shanty boat hull though, one could easily fit a large enough tankage to accommodate that length of time.

JonWilson
01-18-2012, 08:13 AM
One of WoodenBoat's good Facebook friends, Nate Carey, called attention to a YouTube video on a simple river raft with spartan/camping accommodations. It's worth a look just for the utter simplicity of the idea and effort. It's not a Shanty boat, but take a look at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpTKAz_Bo9k&feature=share

landlocked sailor
01-18-2012, 08:32 AM
Fun episode Jon. I searched on "shanty boat"; there looks to be quite a few videos on YouTube. Rick

Carl Cramer
01-18-2012, 10:15 AM
And for those of you who can never get enough, there is this:

http://shantyboatliving.com/

Old Dryfoot
01-18-2012, 02:32 PM
And for those of you who can never get enough, there is this:

http://shantyboatliving.com/

From the Shantyboatliving.com link. Someone else was thinking about Benford maybe?

http://imagesus.homeaway.com/mda01/ff689e3cff889f30fec96eddeb47d3f710bcb53a

http://imagesus.homeaway.com/mda01/51844cca51844dc6c30c68dddd526c868b37860b

This is what I had in mind.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xKuxrel2DJ4/TxcoVMo5H-I/AAAAAAAAAWc/N8fJQIMfsIg/s640/shanty.jpg
My apologies for the lack of graphics rendering skills... :D

Maybe a series on building a Shanty would be something to consider? Preface it with a design challenge and a construction log of the winner? I'd read it. :)

Garret
01-18-2012, 02:36 PM
Those are at Robinhood Marine Center - Georgetown, Maine & available for rent (by the week) for anyone who wants to check out the idea.

Old Dryfoot
01-18-2012, 03:10 PM
Those are at Robinhood Marine Center - Georgetown, Maine & available for rent (by the week) for anyone who wants to check out the idea.

Here is the page detailing the rental shanty. (http://shantyboatliving.com/2011/rental-houseboat-inspires-ideas/)

fishrswim
01-19-2012, 06:38 PM
I'll have to confess that I wasn't very interested in the Shanty Boat story. But after reading all these ideas I'm going back to take another look. Might be fun to have a little house/boat moored somewhere out of the way.

I wonder what the rules are for mooring six months at a time in salt water. Probably just stay out of busy passages and keep an anchor light on after sunset. Hmmm.

fishrswim
01-19-2012, 06:48 PM
Oh well. Shoulda known. There's an entire website with it's own forum all about Shanty Boats. Check out http://shantyboatliving.com/

Everthin ya want to know is just a click away.

Woxbox
01-19-2012, 08:38 PM
Nice site. And there's some creativity out there:

http://shantyboatliving.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Screen-shot-2012-01-17-at-5.39.12-PM-466-x-3071.png

shipsrat
01-21-2012, 10:27 AM
I have a question...
WB magazinw #224 features shanty boats...a great issue. The feature Shantyboat Renaissance by Harry Bryan apparently had a final total cost of $75,000.
I have yet to sit down and work on an analysis....but , at first glance, I don't see such a basic watercraft costing that much.
Am I missing something?

Breakaway
01-21-2012, 01:07 PM
I have a question...
WB magazinw #224 features shanty boats...a great issue. The feature Shantyboat Renaissance by Harry Bryan apparently had a final total cost of $75,000.
I have yet to sit down and work on an analysis....but , at first glance, I don't see such a basic watercraft costing that much.
Am I missing something?

There is another thread that discusses that, and many members felt that way. I'm a dissenter in that I think its a fair price to charge for a completed boat, complete from ships stove to flower boxes. The cost of materials doesn't take the builders time in to account, the level of craftsmanship, or his profit. I'd bet you could buy the materials for half that 35K but you'd have a pile of wood and gallons of paint and glue--you wouldnt have a boat.

Kevin

ripley699
01-21-2012, 09:39 PM
Here is a large part for you that want to build the tugboat: it is on C.L. so don't wait too long as it won't be 'round for long

http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/2791728044.html

Ian McColgin
01-22-2012, 06:01 AM
Breakaway makes a valid point. Amateur builds come in two general sorts: Those that are somewhere between simple and butt-ugly; and Those that show the glory and beauty of real craftsmanship, complete with grace notes.

If the designers is a genius in his or her use of the materials, something like the Glouster Gull comes along, a boat almost impossible to make ugly because Bolger did not leave the curves to the builder's eye, but rather made sure the plywood dictated them. A whole world of nice-enough boats comes from this sort of good design.

Every now and then there's a plain and simple design that's been done by a real craftsman. We had pix of such here not long ago but I can't remember enough to do the search. Simple, often very plainly done, boat but little touches like the cut-outs for bulkhead vents and the detailing of the paint scheam were just right - no geegaw or pointless filigree but a right accenting of a terrific design.

But then there are moments when the designer/builder does the art right. The cover shanty boat could have looked as remorselessly practical as Atkins' Retreat. But it doesn't. The curves, like the eves' line, are just so. The very gentle hull flare and sweep are so deft. And those are things that another can now follow if the plans are available, but even from plans you can get it wrong. I can't be the only one here who's seen a Rozinante where the builder just missed the shere elevation or - this one's actually common - failed to get that stern knuckle right.

So yeah, the skill that went into that shanty boat is easily more valuable than the material. An amateur who's good can make that boat for $20,000 materials or even less, but that person does not count time. And that's the real meaning of being true to the root for amateur - a lover.

Bob Smalser
01-22-2012, 10:27 AM
Traditional shanty boats? Go west, young man, go west.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/18228023/391181901.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/400639108.jpg

CWSmith
01-22-2012, 08:23 PM
Wow! The above photo is like something out of an old movie. Who built it and where do we go to see it?

Bob Smalser
01-22-2012, 08:39 PM
Wow! The above photo is like something out of an old movie. Who built it and where do we go to see it?

The first photo is of the Sprague family (my neighbors) logging camp on Hood Canal around 1910. We bought some timberland from the two brothers sitting on the raft in 1975.

The second photo is of a flatboat built a couple years ago to go down the Mississippi drainage, taken out of a newspaper article. I was gonna do an article on it but I never could get in touch with the builder after he returned from his trip. But it's Western Red Cedar, and its construction is pretty basic.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2595357/400648142.jpg

Dan St Gean
01-24-2012, 10:07 AM
Have there been any attempts to think of creative ways to get a shanty boat in a bigger size, yet still trailer? Assembly would be a challenge to consider, but the trailer industry was able to develop double wides in a prefab setup. The long corridor is a challenge aestheticallly, and most boats tend to get greater beam as they get longer. I don't want or need the crazy tophamper of some of the houseboats, but there is something appealing about a shanty wider than 8'6".

Dan

thud
01-24-2012, 10:26 AM
I really like this idea. I do see that waterfront property owners will raise hell if a shanty boat anchors for an extended period in front of their expensive beach.

Way back I had a 22' Cedar boat I used as a "shanty" with a 16' boat for a tender.
I got questioned several times by property owners when I Anchored too close to their Property, or spent a few nights out front of their house. Good anchorages are few and far between in the San Juan's.

Especially when all I had for a Head was a Bucket!

But I went all through the San Juan's and even spent a few nights in Lake Washington up near the north end. I just fished.
But up in the San Juan's the peace n' quiet is well worth the clamor of building a nice Comfortable Barge looking thing.

The only 'uncomfortable' experience in the San Juan's was anchoring, and then having to move after the weather changed in the middle of the night.
There aren't a whole lot of 'Safe n' Weather free' anchorages in the San Juan's.
Ferry Wakes are another upsetting motion.
Those Ferry wakes can actually cause your Barge to drag the anchor.

The Shanty like you see in the South East states, in the Swamps, and slow rivers may work up in the PacNW but I'd be cautiously aware of the Bad water you can encounter in the San Juan's.
Look into it a bit harder, make sure you can afford it, and follow your dream!

Here's a link to the Moron Brothers who did very well with their shanty and some Music to keep the boredom down.
http://www.comingunmoored.com/2009/03/moron-brothers-kentucky-river-shanty-boat/

htom
01-24-2012, 11:53 AM
I've seen sketches of shantyboats/ houseboats that had fold-out walkways, three or four feet deep, around the entire boat. Some of them had awnings over those. Perhaps especially useful for a craft where those could be "walk out" from the interior.

Ted Hoppe
01-24-2012, 05:41 PM
One could go greener... I like the idea of a shanty boat based on a Hobie cat enabled with a human powered screw propulsion. A small sailing rig could be adapted for longer boat movements. Cost of donor boat and trailer for under 500 dollars from craigs list. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/boa/2815850876.html

http://oomur.pair.com/wwpotter/images/Canal Boat.JPG

fishrswim
01-29-2012, 07:49 PM
Well, at least here in Washington the Division of Natural Resources claims ownership of the land under the water. They will allow a waterfront owner to moor his boat in front of his property, but other moorages are not allowed on a long term basis. Overnight or weekends, etc, no problem. There's a big story in the local paper about a fishing boat moored in an out of the way cove and they've given the owner 30 days to move it. So shanty boats don't seem like a good idea here. Darn!!

Bob Smalser
01-29-2012, 08:24 PM
Well, at least here in Washington the Division of Natural Resources claims ownership of the land under the water. Only salt water. Not lakes or ponds. It's all relative. Overall there is a low level of enforcement, with all manner of derelict live-aboards still existing even in high-tone places like Poulsbo and Braindead. Buy waterfront land in more-remote DeWatto, Tahuya, Brinnon, Allyn, Shelton and places thereabout, and you won't have a problem unless someone complains. So be nice to your neighbors, and you can pretty much do what you want in rural areas.

Breakaway
01-29-2012, 10:24 PM
Well, at least here in Washington the Division of Natural Resources claims ownership of the land under the water.

These issues can crop up anywhere. I live in an area where many waterfront homeowners object to people anchored in view as well. But as Bob says its more of an issue on paper than in reality. Most times, anyway. For one thing, are you going to pick an anchorage where you can pass the salt to the shorefront homeowner in the first place? In the second place, if the DNR "owns" the land under the water, then so do you , so long as you're a taxpayer.

Just saying

Kevin

beernd
01-30-2012, 03:11 PM
What about this one,
I think this one can be towed easily.

http://www.mission-base.com/pedal-power/pp_friend-ship_layout.html

fishrswim
01-30-2012, 04:31 PM
In the second place, if the DNR "owns" the land under the water, then so do you , so long as you're a taxpayer.

Just saying

Kevin

Just a pipe dream for me anyway. But although the "public" may own the land under the water, DNR has been given the responsibliity of regulating its use. For example I now have to purchase and display a "Discover Pass" ($50 per annum) to use any state park or DNR lands.

A much more important (for me) restriction of the use of public lands here in Washington is the habit of waterfront property owners claiming ownership of tidelands and preventing public use of public beaches. In most cases, property rights end at the high water line. However, local law enforcement will not research actual ownership and will assist the property owner in preventing public use. Go Figure. One part time resident actually fired an incendiary device at a fisherman recently, narrowly missing him and law enforcement did nothing.

Breakaway
01-30-2012, 11:01 PM
Go Figure. One part time resident actually fired an incendiary device at a fisherman recently, narrowly missing him and law enforcement did nothing.

Sheesh. We have a similar, though reversed situation around here. A long time "local" beach accessible by permitted 4 WD vehicles has been the object of wrath for a bunch of oceanfront homeowners who didnt count on having winnebagos, travel trailers and pickups with pop-up tents on "their" beach. The matter is in the courts, but for now, the beach is open and the police, if anything, favor the campers.

kevin

sailnstink
01-31-2012, 07:08 AM
They will eventually ban the squatters in the name of protecting a bird or turtle or some such thing.

Sheesh. We have a similar, though reversed situation around here. A long time "local" beach accessible by permitted 4 WD vehicles has been the object of wrath for a bunch of oceanfront homeowners who didnt count on having winnebagos, travel trailers and pickups with pop-up tents on "their" beach. The matter is in the courts, but for now, the beach is open and the police, if anything, favor the campers.

kevin

thud
01-31-2012, 10:23 AM
That's how they got the Auto's off the beaches at Westport Washington way back...Claimed the Autos were killing the young Clams.

Washington claimed the Beach owners could not block off anything below "Mean High, Hi tide" (the Average of the High tides) There was a lot of fighting over that decision.

Breakaway
01-31-2012, 12:06 PM
Yeah the autos kill the clams. Nobody ever considers that the house, swimming pool, tennis court, eight car garage kills a lot too.

The difference between a developer and a conservationist: A developer wants to build a house on the beach; a conservationist already has one.:)

Kevin

Old Dryfoot
01-31-2012, 12:22 PM
I don't know what sort of resistance one would have here with regard to mooring in front of someones waterfront property, but I do know that the chances of getting a traditional shanty boat into one of the local marinas would be next to zero. Only one local marina that I know of allows live aboard tenants, they use to have a few shanty boats as well but they are now gone. In their place is a developer who will gladly sell you a $600,000+ float home with a very expensive water lease attached.

Wavewacker
02-02-2012, 09:18 AM
I own a lake front property, I also owned a river front property.

On the river, my deck off an "A" frame was 20' from the water. People would canoe and tube by and sometimes if the ladies were properly attired (skimmy bating suits) we might offer the shore and even join the party. (I should never had sold that place!). But, when someone came trough blasting radios, throwing beer cans and just being a pain, I'd run them off in a heart beat. In Missouri property owners own to the deepest point of the water which defines the center of the river. Very hard to survey that BTW (LOL), and DNR governs the rules on the water.

At the lake I'm on one of the widest parts of the lake and watching the boaters is just part of being there. My place sets up high enough that from the water it's hard to see the house due to the cedars. The rule is that a boat can't be moored for more than 24 hours. I would anchor my boat at on edge of my property and the daily chore was moving it to the other side, so it was not moored in the same spot for more than 24 hours.

On occassions, there will be some party types who come along and blast the stereo. I will sometimes simply yell out the back door saying, "Honey, let the dogs out", since I'm less than 50' away it usually gets their attention and they decide to move along as they don't have the privacy they might be seeking. When someone does that at midnight and wakes me up, I jsut open the sliding door off the bedroom and fire my 12 guage into the woods next to me, they are usually gone within the minute. This is a Corps of Engineers lake and I'm in the county.


The moral of my stories is don't tick off your neighbors, boaters certainly have the right to be there, but so do the property owners and they have the right of quiet enjoyment. If you would not park your car on the street in front of someone's house and raise kane, then don't do so in your boat, IMO. But I'm sure those here are not those types anyway, just say'n.

Back on topic, I have wondered about the same thing as the OP, and thought about the Sea Doo concept of hooking the power craft in the stern of the mothership, as the do with a jet ski in the Shuttle Craft. I think it would be great at slower cruising speeds instead of pushing as a tug or pulling it.

BBSebens
02-08-2012, 12:04 PM
Hmm... a seadoo is an interesting idea, but I wonder how much pulling power they have at the relatively slow speeds afforded by the barge? Also, no steerage without forward movement.

I wonder if a person could fit a normal propellor to a sea-doo.... hmm....

sailboy3
02-08-2012, 12:10 PM
Hmm... a seadoo is an interesting idea, but I wonder how much pulling power they have at the relatively slow speeds afforded by the barge? Also, no steerage without forward movement.

I wonder if a person could fit a normal propellor to a sea-doo.... hmm....

W H Y ?????

would you want to bother with a jetski.

Building a miniature open tug or yawl boat would be so much more fun. A dinghy with a B&S inboard.

Bob Cleek
02-08-2012, 07:28 PM
Marin Co., CA, which is just across the Golden Gate from San Francisco, was home to a rather extensive collection of "shanty boats" in the late 1800's and early 1900's. They were locally known as "arks." Folks from the City kept them as summer places and many were quite elaborate, so much so that some were hauled up on shore to become regular cabins. There are several preserved in Tiburon and Sausalito.

http://www.nps.gov/safr/historyculture/images/minnehaha_no_cap.jpg

http://www.nps.gov/safr/historyculture/images/lewis_ark_afloat_556px.jpg

The most famous is the "China Cabin," which was the first class social saloon salvaged from the Pacific Mail Steamship Lines sidewheel steamer "China" in 1886. They just plopped it down on pilings at the shoreline. It has been totally restored and is a registered national maritime treasure. It now can be rented as a public hall for weddings and such.

http://www.landmarks-society.org/images/china_cabin/lg/front.jpg

http://www.landmarks-society.org/images/china_cabin/lg/inside.jpg

Here's one of a row of arks on the Sausalito waterfront.

http://i.rentalo.com/images/Sausalito-Apartment-Condo-p7_128717_9160565t.jpg

And one at the SF Maritime Museum Hyde Street Pier.

http://www.nps.gov/safr/historyculture/images/ark_for_web.jpg

There's a guy who's making an HO layout of the Tiburon rail yards, complete with model arks.

[http://www.polyweb.com/dans_rr/blog/index.php/archives/23

Wavewacker
02-08-2012, 08:00 PM
Man, those are nice, I like the inlayed floor too.

BTW, I didn't mean to suggest a jet ski, but like the see doo shuttle boat that incorporates a jet ski. I was thinking more in line with a smaller power boat that would fit in the aft section, maybe have remote steering. Unhook it and take off.

BBSebens
02-09-2012, 01:17 PM
Wow, a little fancier than I was thinking, but not a bad way to live!


The only reason to go with a jet-ski would be because its all ready to go, rather than a mini-tug which you will probably have to make. That said, I do not want a Jet ski.

Breakaway
02-12-2012, 12:01 PM
Actually those little 15 ft jet boats have excellent maneuverability at low speed. You just have learn the knack of shuttling the bucket tween file ward and reverse. Can make them move sideways actually, or almost; you can get the 15 ft side to into an 18 ft berth once you get it.
Kevin

North Coast Viking
03-08-2012, 11:48 PM
Okay, tuning in a little late on this thread; glad I found it! The concept of a shanty boat first intrigued me the first time I went through the "Pirates of the Caribbean" attraction at Disneyland--the shantyboats sitting in the placid backwaters of the swamp before the ride got "exciting" really stirred my imagination. I would confess, the Aqua-Casa 20' has piqued my interest for a long time; regrettably, with 4 kids still "on crew" at my casa, it won't happen in the near future. I devoured WB#224 and fell in lust with Harry Bryan's beautiful "shanty"; but, I can't help but think that the word "shanty" evokes the idea of something just a few shades less elegant (and a little less dear; $75K?). IMHO, Harry's shanty is more "yachty" than "shanty"; it just needs to move under its own or Aeolus' power to be accepted for membership "down at the club." There are some very interesting designs out there, some a bit more primitive, some, not so much, but I am glad to see that the concept is gaining a following. I did a paddle-wheel steamboat trip up the Miss from New Orleans about 2 weeks before Katrina; the hopeless nostalgic, I was hoping to see some shanties on the river. Alas, it's a big muddy water commercial freeway; the pleasure boats I saw the entire trip I could count on one hand, and not use all my fingers. My "bucket list" is not so long; perhaps I will get the chance to do St. Paul to the Big Easy on my Aqua Casa or the like before the dream fades...

johnw
03-09-2012, 01:14 AM
Hmm... a seadoo is an interesting idea, but I wonder how much pulling power they have at the relatively slow speeds afforded by the barge? Also, no steerage without forward movement.

I wonder if a person could fit a normal propellor to a sea-doo.... hmm....

Probably not much. The Alaska net skiffs use water jets to keep from getting the nets fouled in the props, and the early ones used a unit designed for speed instead of power. They found that didn't work very well. A yawl boat with a big prop would be a better idea.

BBSebens
03-12-2012, 12:43 PM
Probably not much. The Alaska net skiffs use water jets to keep from getting the nets fouled in the props, and the early ones used a unit designed for speed instead of power. They found that didn't work very well. A yawl boat with a big prop would be a better idea.


Right. Like a tug boat.

;)

JimD
03-12-2012, 01:33 PM
The cover pic on WBM even caught the eye of Mrs JimD, and she never looks at boats. But I would insist on a proper boat hull.

3sheets
03-12-2012, 02:16 PM
http://www.poppaneutrino.com/trailer.html

How about an ocean crossing???

SaltyD from BC
03-12-2012, 03:16 PM
Some thoughts on the trailer. And the tug.

A buddy has a 25 foot aluminum herring punt. Its essentially a barge shape, dead flat bottom. He bought an old tandem boat trailer, and we gutted all the rollers, welded uprights every 30" or so up from the main frames on each side. To that a chunk of metal plate was welded with lips laid out to recieve and hold a 2x6 plank. These uprights were long enough to be above the tires. Than we just bolted 2x6 timbers to the plates on each side. We made sure that the spacing of the planks pick up the punt at the chine, the strongest area, and have upright guide posts on the trailer so the boat comes on to the trailer right where we want it. It works very well, the punt lives on the trailer all winter with no issues. No rollers are needed, as a flat bottom punt (or shanty boat) doesn't draw much water, get the timber suports wet by a couple inches and the boat slides on with a little help from a hand winch. This is the way I'd go. Used boat trailers are way cheaper than flat deck trailers in my experience. And boat trailers should be more coorosion resistant (galvanized).

A tug boat sounds like a hoot, and you know probably the way to go. Trying to propell a Shanty through a gale in the straights by its own boat power by means of a little motor does not sound fun. A cool little mini tug, or myriad other outboard boats would do. Sternpost always ahead of the prop in a tug boat, and then with the steerage of an outboard you have very positive control of the load. Another thing to consider in the design of the Shanty and the tug, is a good tie off points on each hip as the old tug boat guys would say. That is, about 3/4 the length back on the Shanty. Tie the tug off on either side there as you enter a harbour or other real tight spot is the preferred method to move the thing around slowly and accurately when you need to.

As said back ther, do it!

JimD
03-18-2012, 05:01 PM
I want one of these 20 footers from Tad Roberts:


If you build a boat that looks like it might be a houseboat, someone will object. But if you build a houseboat (which a single person might liveaboard full time) that looks like a boat, you may fall below the radar. Thus my little Shanties have some shape in their sides and a stem so they look like boats. Some space is lost for a gain in aesthetic appeal which may get you a coveted inside berth at the marina.

http://tadroberts.ca/services/small-boats/files/images/shanty/CruisingShanty20-A01-S.jpg

Wavewacker
03-19-2012, 08:09 AM
Jim, but that's not a shanty, nice boat that could be shantely built, but not a shanty.
I like the suggestion Jim, I'd like to have one, but that is not an easy build. A shanty can be built in weeks, as opposed to other liveaboards that can easily take years.

Can't see how a tug can be fun......and more "fun" than a jetski? I guess if they type of attention you draw on the water is fun, that would be in the eye of the beholder, but more water fun than having a jetski and a boat? I can't imagine how it could be. I have been pulled before, about 2 miles in my 5000+ cuddy by a jetski without a problem and at a pretty good clip I might add. You can get them with 200+ hp! How much power do ya think you need to move a flat bottomed shanty....maybe 10hp? We do love to hate jetskis, but you can't argue when ridden responsibily and not like rodeo machines, they are versitle water crafts with many uses.

Anyway, show mo shantyboats....

JimD
03-19-2012, 11:18 AM
Jim, but that's not a shanty, nice boat that could be shantely built, but not a shanty.
I like the suggestion Jim, I'd like to have one, but that is not an easy build. A shanty can be built in weeks, as opposed to other liveaboards that can easily take years.

.

It would be an awfully poor excuse for a boat. I think the fact that you are mistaking it for a boat is the intention. According to the designer, Tad Roberts, it is so a Shanty, just dressed up to look like a boat. True, it has curves and a pointy end, if that's the objection. But its still intended to be quick, easy, and cheap to build and requires very low power. Its not much of a boat and I don't think a reputable designer would try to pass it off as one. You may feel that 'boat shaped shanty' is oxymoronic. Fair enough if that's how you feel. Perhaps the full description would be more convincing http://tadroberts.ca/services/small-boats/barge/shanty20 or perhaps not. If what one is really after is a square floating platform with a cabin on it and an outboard to force it along then I can see how it would not appeal :)

BBSebens
03-19-2012, 12:07 PM
Can't see how a tug can be fun......and more "fun" than a jetski?

I don't think you could quantify it being more or less "fun", but rather, a different kind of fun.

I think I'd like to have the Tug to use as an expedition vehicle, while being able to leave the shanty in place.

But, your usage could, and probably would, vary from mine.

Wavewacker
03-19-2012, 02:17 PM
Jim, well blow me down! You got me, OK, there was talk about a tug and then that.....what is it a sharpie?

Without looking it up, I can see building the Bolger Shanty hull with a pointy end and then just adding straight high freeboard shaped to profile almost anything....how about a battleship?

BB, yes, don't know what "exploring" might include, in most rivers. lakes, marshes and waterways in north america I'd opt for shallow draft, the less the better since that means you can get back in there where most boats can't or don't go to "explore".
Having a mothership is a good idea with a smaller craft that gives you more options.....

JimD
03-19-2012, 02:27 PM
Jim, well blow me down! You got me, OK, there was talk about a tug and then that.....what is it a sharpie?

I think its just a simple flat bottom box with a pointy end to keep it from looking so much like a flat bottom box. Kinda cute, I think. Boaty enough for the man, homey enough for the missus.:d

Wavewacker
03-19-2012, 03:39 PM
Actually, that's an option for me and the you know what.....plans are $400.00 for that boat like shanty box. I think I can figure it out...especially with some answers from you guys....LOL

TR
03-19-2012, 04:10 PM
Whoa!.......sorry to get people riled over a name.....|:)

Actually I called it a "Cruising Shanty", and it was drawn in reaction to Harry Bryan's WoodenBoat #224 cover boat.

I believe Phil Bolger wrote rather wisely about "cheap" boats.......He said something like "If you build a boat that looks cheap, it better be cheap." This is my attitude to the shanty boat controversy. In WB #225 Harry defends the $75,000 finished price of his 20' shanty boat. That's without any propulsion by the way. I am concerned that Joe B wheels his $75k shanty home only to find she will fetch $15k on the open market! Harry mentions 2000 man hours to build his shanty, no question she's a beautiful thing nicely made. But I think one could, using plywood and stitch and glue techniques, create something that looks at least vaguely like a boat (my cruising shanty) in about 1/4 the man hours. And it's something you could clamp an old outboard to and go someplace(protected waters). True it will be worth less than Harry's boat, but the investment will be far less.

The cruising shanty's bottom is flat athwartships with rocker fore and aft. Topsides are vertical. The bulkheads and transom are sawn out and set up upside down. Bottom goes on in two layers, then lower topsides. Roll her upright and add upperworks, deck and cabintop are only curved in one direction. Flower boxes can be added, along with a satellite dish on the roof.......:d

Wavewacker
03-19-2012, 04:25 PM
LOL, well blow me down, it's TR himself! I wanted to add one of those pole clothes lines that when not in use you can throw a tarp over it and it would look like an umbrella.

I do admire your designs Tad, the pilothouse cutter is my favorite....even if I have have found some in steel as projects for sale, guess people don't realize the size and scope of such builds and over time, stuff happens too.

JimD
03-19-2012, 06:11 PM
...The cruising shanty's bottom is flat athwartships with rocker fore and aft...

I didn't realize the bottom was rockered. In that case its already more of a real boat that some other designs that make little mention of their questionable hydrodynamics, such as the Berkley offerings that appear to be dead flat through out.

http://www.berkeley-engineering.com/images/CanduE-ZScan.jpg

JimD
03-19-2012, 06:51 PM
Many flat bottom designs have very little rocker forward. Very nearly a straight run from stem to midships. I'd guess that to be more shantylike the straight run could continue considerably farther aft with all or most of the rocker in the last few feet. The fewer and more gradual the curves the easier the build, generally speaking. Ie:

http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/images/Twilight-3.gif

JimD
03-19-2012, 07:05 PM
Or double ended and completely flat bottom, a poor man's Steve Redmond Elver. This would allow you to make the bottom of heavy plywood with no worries of needing to bend it. Elver's bottom is 3/4" ply, I think:

http://www.sredmond.com/boat_images/ElvAccom_sma.jpg

http://www.sredmond.com/boat_images/Elver_DanG2_sm.jpg

Woxbox
03-19-2012, 07:21 PM
...how about a battleship?

Now we're talking. One of these profiles should ensure peace and quiet. You wouldn't even be bothered with those annoying plumbing inspections. And on top of that, there are any number of special anchorages up and down the coat that would become available.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k279/shipbucket/Ship Charts/AegisCruiserEvolution.gif

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k279/shipbucket/Ship%20Charts/AegisCruiserEvolution.gif

BBSebens
03-19-2012, 11:49 PM
BB, yes, don't know what "exploring" might include, in most rivers. lakes, marshes and waterways in north america I'd opt for shallow draft, the less the better since that means you can get back in there where most boats can't or don't go to "explore".
Having a mothership is a good idea with a smaller craft that gives you more options.....

Well, I live in the San Juan Islands, which has vast areas of (relatively) protected inland waters, most of which is quite deep. As opposed to you, who live in Missouri, which Im guessing has rather different cruising grounds.

Neither of us is "wrong", we just want to tailor our craft to our desired usage.

JimD
03-20-2012, 10:17 AM
Line drawing of TR's Cruising Shanty. The rocker seems quite evenly distributed. I think you could expect quite efficient performance. Wish I had seen this view before I made a couple less than complementary assumptions.

http://tadroberts.ca/services/small-boats/files/images/shanty/Shanty20a-S.jpg

http://tadroberts.ca/services/small-boats/files/images/shanty/Shanty20b-S.jpg

JimD
03-20-2012, 10:21 AM
Another curtain call:

http://tadroberts.ca/services/small-boats/files/images/shanty/CruisingShanty20-A03-S.jpg

essaunders
03-20-2012, 10:35 AM
I think I like Cruising Shanty arrangement B. "A" has the advantage of a good porch, while "B" has more "interior"

I suppose it depends on whether you'd spend time sitting on the porch or not. may the best would be to put a "Tenner Dancefloor" hinged rear deck. Keep it up when you'd be charged by length, drop it down for calm anchorages...

TR
03-20-2012, 11:45 AM
A sharp entry like the Atkin or Elver above does not need any rocker forward (IMO). A very blunt bow, as the cruising shanty, will be better with some rocker. Think of the bow as a wedge being forced through the water, smaller (shallower) and finer is easier (less resistance). As the boat passes the water just wants to return to it's starting level, thus the gentle rise of bottom aft with little transom immersed and dragging up a stern wave. I believe the maximum waterplane (blunt ends) is a requirement for a small boat that folks will spend time aboard. The waterplane area and displacement are key to decent stability and reduction of motion with every passing ripple. I see people trying to live aboard small boats (like a Catalina 27) and they are exhausted by the constant motion more than anything.

With her small waterplane, large deck, and high sides the Elver in particular is a very tiddly boat, not conducive to relaxation IMO. But she will slip along at low speed with almost no effort.

JimD
03-20-2012, 12:56 PM
With her small waterplane, large deck, and high sides the Elver in particular is a very tiddly boat, not conducive to relaxation IMO. But she will slip along at low speed with almost no effort.

I certainly wouldn't want an Elver for a cruising shanty. I meant only to point out the possibility of a vessel much like your design only double ended, with a wide bottom and straight vertical sides. Of course the only value in doing so would be to permit a perfectly flat bottom. That might have some convenience but the disadvantages could outweigh.

JimD
03-20-2012, 12:59 PM
I think I like Cruising Shanty arrangement B. "A" has the advantage of a good porch, while "B" has more "interior"

I suppose it depends on whether you'd spend time sitting on the porch or not. may the best would be to put a "Tenner Dancefloor" hinged rear deck. Keep it up when you'd be charged by length, drop it down for calm anchorages...I prefer A. Its nice to feel like you're stepping out of inside of a boat.

keyhavenpotterer
03-21-2012, 09:14 AM
So, if the 20' shanty boat appeals, but the waters she will be used in are protected coastal, what do you go for?

Brian

JimD
03-21-2012, 09:33 AM
So, if the 20' shanty boat appeals, but the waters she will be used in are protected coastal, what do you go for?

BrianMaybe just go with TRs design. I wonder if you could build a hull with a little more shape to the bottom, such as a double chine without ecouraging too much unwanted motion when not underway? Add some ballast?

Woxbox
03-21-2012, 08:05 PM
For protected coastal waters, I'd be thinking of a scow hull. Plenty capable and will take a Shanty superstructure.

JimD
03-21-2012, 10:00 PM
For protected coastal waters, I'd be thinking of a scow hull. Plenty capable and will take a Shanty superstructure.
Something like this from Mertens, perhaps. But the more you need a real boat the less you can call it a shanty

http://www.bateau.com/images/boatpics/GT23_Bow_under2_350.jpg

keyhavenpotterer
03-22-2012, 08:31 AM
Perhaps keep all the upper top side design as plan B and add V to the bottom and ballast to take up that added volume. Similar to the 16' Pocket Cruiser.

http://tadroberts.ca/services/small-boats/files/images/pocketcruiser/pocket-cruiser-04-S.jpg

JimD
03-22-2012, 09:04 AM
A motor cruiser! I like it. Who needs a shanty, anyway? How about modest vee forward but otherwise no deadrise elsewhere?

tpelle
03-22-2012, 09:38 AM
Shanty boats have always interested me, as I live along the banks of the Ohio river - one of the great shanty boat rivers. As a matter of fact, Harlan Hubbard's shanty boat was constructed only a couple of miles from where I grew up, and at about the time that I was a kid. A lot of the people he mentions in his book, and a lot of the places he frequented, were known to me. (Of course my mother was always warning me to stay away from the sort of folks who lived on shanty boats, as well as those who lived in the "hobo camps" along the C&O right of way 2 blocks from our house.)

I looked at the shantyboatliving web site, and watched the video of the Atkin's Retreat shanty boat. I was impressed at how well it moved under power! The TR 20' shanty boat, the one that looks like an old raised-deck cruiser, seems like a really practical boat for such waters. The curved hull and pointed bow could only help while underway. And it succeeds, I think, at looking like a "real" boat and not like a garden shed on a raft. Sort of a "stealth" shanty, so to speak. As long as you understood its limitations, and were not seduced by its "boaty" looks into taking it out in conditions that one would navigate in with, say, a Sea-Ray or other fiberglass misbegotten issue of a union between a space shuttle and a log splitting wedge, one would do just fine.

tpelle
03-22-2012, 09:41 AM
A motor cruiser! I like it. Who needs a shanty, anyway? How about modest vee forward but otherwise no deadrise elsewhere?

JimD, that 16' pocket cruiser looks sort of like a slightly larger version of one of the incarnations of your Minuet!

JimD
03-22-2012, 09:42 AM
I, too, would be tempted to stay with TR's design. If you need more boat than that then a shanty isn't appropriate. Get a real boat with the biggest possible cabin.

JimD
03-22-2012, 09:46 AM
JimD, that 16' pocket cruiser looks sort of like a slightly larger version of one of the incarnations of your Minuet!yes, a bit. And I may redo the Minuet again next year. Currently it has no cabin at all. I opened it up and now its quite an admirable daysailer for four. The shortcoming of the Minuet as a motor cruiser is that it has a proper sailboat hull and lacks primary stability due to the amount of deadrise, flair to the sides, and accompanying relatively narrow waterline beam. Stiff under sail but prone to rolling when not.

JimD
03-22-2012, 10:24 AM
Also, once you get into the realm of roomy simple boats there are options, such as Peter's beautiful version of Bolger's Champlain

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1ce07b3127ccefe2031a56e5200000030O02BauGzJmyZA9 vPgo/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/boat-design/52526d1295205539-trailerable-trawler-troller-icw-great-loop-champlain_arrangement.jpg

JimD
03-22-2012, 10:44 AM
But getting back to the Shanty theme, I'd only be interested in a very inexpensive build, meaning construction 2x4s for framing and exterior ply for the planking. PL glued and screwed, glass sheathed below the water line and maybe just painted above. Inexpensive house construction so far as possible. Something like that.

BBSebens
03-22-2012, 03:08 PM
I think we are getting into the difference between a houseboat and a shanty. To me it seems that a shanty boat is something that is intended to be mostly stationary, be it on a mooring or at a dock. But not making passages on a regular basis. As opposed to a houseboat which would be intended for cruising about with a greater consideration for interior space than other factors.

For my local waters, I don't think I'd want to go with construction grade materials. Being a protected sea, we still get some stout weather that passes through. Windage would be a concern...


BTW, Turtle Bay is a Windemere, not a Champlain. I think the Windemere is mostly just a longer version of the same idea.

JimD
03-22-2012, 03:43 PM
I think we are getting into the difference between a houseboat and a shanty. To me it seems that a shanty boat is something that is intended to be mostly stationary, be it on a mooring or at a dock. But not making passages on a regular basis. As opposed to a houseboat which would be intended for cruising about with a greater consideration for interior space than other factors.

For my local waters, I don't think I'd want to go with construction grade materials. Being a protected sea, we still get some stout weather that passes through. Windage would be a concern...


BTW, Turtle Bay is a Windemere, not a Champlain. I think the Windemere is mostly just a longer version of the same idea.

You missed an 'r' in Windermere, Ben :)

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/boat-design/52527d1295205944-trailerable-trawler-troller-icw-great-loop-windermere_arrangement.jpg

JimD
03-22-2012, 03:49 PM
A pontoon boat is another consideration. Make the pontoons from quality materials. Make the cabin ... by other means:

http://www.glen-l.com/designs/house/house-images/dsn-hfn.jpg

TR
03-22-2012, 04:19 PM
Yes, as BB mentions above, there is a difference between a shanty (intended for static use) and a houseboat or cruiser (intended to go places). The first step away from a simple square ended barge is a pram as suggested by Jim. Below is a minimum cruising pram for a small family. The kids have a bunk room forward and their own hatch to tend anchor. Galley and controls midships P&S, then seats each side with a drop table which forms a huge double for mom and dad, with sliding doors P&S. Aft is "wet" space with the porta-pottie and fuel, etc, with motor access....... The bottom is mostly dead flat turning veed in the forward third of the hull. Some form of appendage is necessary to keep her from just going sideways as you turn the wheel. This power scow could actually cover some ground in protected water and deal with light summer chop with 10HP or so.

http://www.tadroberts.ca/pics/20powerscow.jpg

Below is a true barge, not really intended for anything other than rare movement, but the bottom rocker means she will push or tow fairly easily. Surely this would qualify as a "real" shanty.........:d

http://www.tadroberts.ca/pics/28barge.jpg

tpelle
03-22-2012, 06:18 PM
TR, I think you just about hit one out of the ballpark with your 20' Cruising Shanty. The only improvement that I can think of might be to slightly lengthen the pilot house area to permit a rear bulkhead, and the ability to have a little seating and social area seperate from the sleeping area. with a canvas and screen-enclosed "back porch" - wow!

Woxbox
03-22-2012, 08:43 PM
Boats of this genre designed to go places bring to mind the canal boats of Europe. They're more than shanty boats, but not quite houseboats. Low powered and comfortable.


http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42301000/jpg/_42301052_boat_canal_pa_416.jpg&sa=X&ei=OtVrT_CfJsP00gGz0ozlBg&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNFgnYcfOQ2-21Otrx_dYBNz0qMHqg


http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.boat-holiday.co.uk/images/canalboat2.jpg&sa=X&ei=n9RrT5_6A8bi0QGuguD2Bg&ved=0CAwQ8wc4ogE&usg=AFQjCNH4joyG_Vu6_giXbwgqq7SfPtzTvA

JimD
03-22-2012, 09:14 PM
Paul Fisher has a couple canal boats, under 7' beam for narrow canals:

http://www.selway-fisher.com/Sur235.gif

JimD
03-22-2012, 09:35 PM
And who could forget the astonishing Glen-L Gypsy. Someone put a 120 hp on the back of one of these:

http://www.glen-l.com/picboards/picboard9/pic520c.jpg

http://www.glen-l.com/designs/house/house-images/dsn-gypb.jpg

BBSebens
03-22-2012, 09:53 PM
I like your stuff Tad. Looks really good.

The problem with canal boats is... they're for canals. I wonder how they would handle larger water? Whats the underwater profile look like? Seems kinda roll-y.

Woxbox
03-23-2012, 07:43 AM
But that's the whole point of this discussion - minimal boats for still waters. You give up some "real boat" characteristics in exchange for maximum livability and low cost.

rbgarr
03-23-2012, 08:15 AM
FWIW, an upcoming talk on Canal Boats at the Camden (Maine) Public Library. Time to be determined.

Tuesday, April 17 – Roger Taylor returns to Camden to present an illustrated talk on “The Canals of Europe.” Roger is the founder and former publisher of International Marine Books in Rockport and is a well known in the yachting world for his writing. For the past ten years he has lived on a small boat which he has turned into a travelling museum ship on the life and history of canal boating in Europe. “There’s an intricate system of waterways in Europe that has allowed commercial traffic on canals not only to remain in business but to grow,” he says. “It’s not just history, you can deliver goods by water cheaply throughout Europe. It’s a big, growing industry.”

Wavewacker
03-23-2012, 09:36 AM
Yes, as BB mentions above, there is a difference between a shanty (intended for static use) and a houseboat or cruiser (intended to go places). The first step away from a simple square ended barge is a pram as suggested by Jim. Below is a minimum cruising pram for a small family. The kids have a bunk room forward and their own hatch to tend anchor. Galley and controls midships P&S, then seats each side with a drop table which forms a huge double for mom and dad, with sliding doors P&S. Aft is "wet" space with the porta-pottie and fuel, etc, with motor access....... The bottom is mostly dead flat turning veed in the forward third of the hull. Some form of appendage is necessary to keep her from just going sideways as you turn the wheel. This power scow could actually cover some ground in protected water and deal with light summer chop with 10HP or so.

http://www.tadroberts.ca/pics/20powerscow.jpg

Below is a true barge, not really intended for anything other than rare movement, but the bottom rocker means she will push or tow fairly easily. Surely this would qualify as a "real" shanty.........:d

http://www.tadroberts.ca/pics/28barge.jpg

Now the one at the top works and is pretty much what I had in mind, but would need that extra 8' up front for my cargo and open that bow with a ramp as the landing craft....!

JimD
03-23-2012, 09:58 AM
But that's the whole point of this discussion - minimal boats for still waters. You give up some "real boat" characteristics in exchange for maximum livability and low cost.
100% agree. Thing is, those of us who want our floating platforms to be able to go some place have waited patiently for the true shanty crowd to have their say and now we have hijacked the thread. AHHRRR.

Wavewacker
03-23-2012, 10:21 AM
LOL! Don't ya think that would work for the rivers...even the great loop? Might take awhile to do....

I would like more standing headroom, but probably won't get it......I do wish we had the canal boats here as they seem to be great liveaboards.

Ok, hyjack away.....

Oldad
03-23-2012, 11:52 AM
Read the book that inspired Harry's shanty boat. He mentions it in the article. It will move, all you need is a little current and some really long oars.
Oldad

Woxbox
03-23-2012, 04:51 PM
You can rent a European style (and built, I believe) canal boat on the Erie Canal. There are several companies that offer them. Great way to see how it suits you. It's on the sort list for the missus and me.

Wooden Boat Fittings
03-23-2012, 08:09 PM
Narrowboats are great fun (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?119373-Canal-boating), and you could certainly live aboard if you had a mind to. But handling one longer than about twenty-five feet is like trying to steer a row of shopping trolleys.

Mike

skuthorp
03-24-2012, 05:23 AM
I vaguely remember a story where a live aboard couple needed a 'shed' to do some work on their yacht. They bought a big metal barge with a permanent mooring and moved a second hand building on board as a a shop. Before long she had moved onto the barge and I do not know the ultimate outcome.

rbgarr
04-02-2012, 07:31 PM
http://sparkmanstephens.blogspot.com/2012/04/design-2717-residential-barge.html

Oldad
04-03-2012, 07:30 AM
Something like this from Mertens, perhaps. But the more you need a real boat the less you can call it a shanty

http://www.bateau.com/images/boatpics/GT23_Bow_under2_350.jpgBb
Be careful if you are considering this plan. There have been multiple reports that the design trims down by the bow due poor weight distribution.
Oldad

Tom Lathrop
04-03-2012, 08:53 AM
The problem I alway had with Harry Brian's "shanty boat" is that there is no connection between $75,000 and the term shanty. They just don't go together in the same sentence. Harry's boat is beautifull and beautifully done but it ain't no shanty and would get a laugh from anyone who ever lived or relaxed on a real shanty boat. Can't see anyone stepping out of an old battered jon boat with muddy boots and a string of slimy fish into that neat little castle. Tad's offerings have as much panache with a ton more practicality although they ain't shantys either..

Fot those that want to see a real "shanty boat", I offer the following.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=-RaFApVP0zU&vq=large

Ian McColgin
04-03-2012, 09:03 AM
Tom's vid is a bit closer to the shack on a log raft that I lived on in a slough of the Willamette. But despite the remorseless straight line practicality of Atkins and others who evolved shacks on rafts into micro-barges with a bed, I see nothing wrong with exercising a bit of artistry, put some beautiful curves in and like that. There is something to be said for a person to be his or her own designer-builder and thus not hitting anything like the $75,000, so very much of which was the master craftsman's just reward. Perhaps just as the micro-barge-with-bed is a good step from shack on a raft, so also the really refined "shanty boat" is, like a classic folly, an exercise in romantic imagination and whether one makes it personally or hires the job means little compared to the creation of a jewel from which one can watch the tide ebb and flood.

JimD
04-03-2012, 10:18 AM
Bb
Be careful if you are considering this plan. There have been multiple reports that the design trims down by the bow due poor weight distribution.
Oldad
I seem to recall hearing that before. Perhaps the problems stem from this being a planing hull
The planing hull bottom and the wide and strong transom allows her to take fairly large engines but she will be very happy to move at displacement speed with a 25 HP. Probably trims better with twin 100s on the transom.

Oldad
04-03-2012, 11:39 AM
The problem stems from the cabin being located far ahead of the lateral center of bouyancy and yes, a couple of 100s (4 strokes) on the transom would help a lot ;)
Oldad

keyhavenpotterer
04-04-2012, 02:56 AM
This Aqucamper is a sort of minimal shantyboat....... losts of good ideas for a ply punt fit out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0DeaCccvM8

Ethan
04-08-2012, 08:05 PM
Riggs Cove Rentals, Georgetown, ME. More than a shanty boat, less than a houseboat. Attractive design either way. Link to website (http://www.riggscoverentals.com)

http://robinhoodmarinecenter.com/wp-content/uploads/slideshow-gallery-pro/CA%20TA%20Service%20725.jpg


http://robinhoodmarinecenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/CA-aft-qtr-7251.jpg

Garret
04-08-2012, 08:15 PM
From the makers of Cape Dory boats no less. They seem to be renting fairly well though.

AlanL
04-08-2012, 11:03 PM
When I think of Shanties, I think of something like these. Hone and Kaka, two lighters or barges built c.1911 in Dargaville and used as houseboats in Whangarei until 1994.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVHZeONSDts

Will Wheeler
04-09-2012, 02:52 AM
Saw of one of these at the Toronto Boat Show, looked like the offspring of three-way between a camper trailer, a bass boat and a pontoon boat.



Here an idea, albeit in aluminum, but I imagine the concept could be realized in wood: The boats twin hulls are connected by a sliding bar that allows an 8-foot beam for trailering but expands to 11 feet for cruising; the "house" is some sort of flexible/fabric.


http://vimeo.com/34309737

Kevin

Garret
04-09-2012, 08:38 AM
Saw of one of these at the Toronto Boat Show, looked like the offspring of three-way between a camper trailer, a bass boat and a pontoon boat.

I'll say a 4-way - as I think a ski lift got into the mix as well.......

Mad Scientist
04-09-2012, 12:15 PM
...Star Trek shuttlecraft, perhaps.

Tom

Breakaway
04-09-2012, 01:10 PM
Saw of one of these at the Toronto Boat Show, looked like the offspring of three-way between a camper trailer, a bass boat and a pontoon boat.

I'd say it also has a Sno-Cat in its lineage!

Kevin

jpb54
08-27-2012, 09:52 PM
Could you use the Oyster barge over on the build page as a platform for a shanty boat ?

waltwood
09-01-2012, 06:33 PM
I saw this and wanted to say it is possible that I build a house on this. I really did build it to sell as an Oyster barge but I built one houseboat and have wanted to build another.

bluedog225
07-14-2014, 06:55 PM
What will generally get better fuel efficiency, a flat bottom, a pontoon, or a more traditional sailboat hull? For some reason, I think the pontoon would be the worst but I don't know why.

Gah
07-17-2014, 01:36 PM
Friends,

Here is a likely contender for the title of shanty boat, it even comes with stripper pole.

http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/4544823320.html

Woxbox
07-17-2014, 01:46 PM
What will generally get better fuel efficiency, a flat bottom, a pontoon, or a more traditional sailboat hull? For some reason, I think the pontoon would be the worst but I don't know why.

Other things being equal, the pontoon will be most efficient and provide the best stability, too. The downside is that the pontoon approach will provide less displacement if it's properly proportioned.

Breakaway
07-17-2014, 01:56 PM
Friends,

Here is a likely contender for the title of shanty boat, it even comes with stripper pole.

http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/4544823320.html

Structure is attached to the trailer and floats with it still under it.

Its amphibious!

Kevin