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wardd
01-06-2012, 11:17 AM
New Hampshire GOP Bill Mandates That New Laws Find Their Origin In 1215 English Magna Carta (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/01/04/397520/new-hampshire-gop-bill-mandates-that-laws-find-their-origin-in-1215-english-magna-carta/)

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/01/04/397520/new-hampshire-gop-bill-mandates-that-laws-find-their-origin-in-1215-english-magna-carta/?mobile=nc

Ian McColgin
01-06-2012, 11:38 AM
They think the Magna Carta was written by George Washington while musing about eternal truth at Valley Forge.

Concordia 33
01-06-2012, 11:52 AM
I'm a little confused....

This is the preamble to the bill:



HB 1580 – AS INTRODUCED
2010 SESSION10-2632
04/05
HOUSE BILL 1580
AN ACT relative to home schooling.
SPONSORS: Rep. Ingbretson, Graf 5; Rep. Vita, Straf 3; Rep. Willette, Hills 6; Rep. Hogan, Hills 25
COMMITTEE: Education

ANALYSISThis bill establishes that parents have a natural, fundamental right to determine and direct the education of their children. The bill also exempts children who are receiving educational instruction from a parent from the compulsory attendance requirements.


The bill itself makes no mention of the Magna Carta and seems to be an education bill. I realize that this is from the 20110 session, but wouldn't imagine that they would introduce a new bill with the same number the following year. If they did, please provide the link to that bill as this was the only one I could find.

Concordia 33
01-06-2012, 11:52 AM
I'm a little confused....

This is the preamble to the bill:



HB 1580 AS INTRODUCED

2010 SESSION
10-2632
04/05
HOUSE BILL 1580
AN ACT relative to home schooling.
SPONSORS: Rep. Ingbretson, Graf 5; Rep. Vita, Straf 3; Rep. Willette, Hills 6; Rep. Hogan, Hills 25
COMMITTEE: Education

ANALYSIS
This bill establishes that parents have a natural, fundamental right to determine and direct the education of their children. The bill also exempts children who are receiving educational instruction from a parent from the compulsory attendance requirements.


The bill itself makes no mention of the Magna Carta and seems to be an education bill. I realize that this is from the 20110 session, but wouldn't imagine that they would introduce a new bill with the same number the following year. If they did, please provide the link to that bill as this was the only one I could find.

wardd
01-06-2012, 12:00 PM
are you doubly confused?

John Smith
01-06-2012, 12:12 PM
I caught this last night, too. As I've said before, those who wave our constitution the highest haven't read it. Apparently some don't even know it exists.

Maybe part of running for office should be a test on the constitution.

Ian McColgin
01-06-2012, 12:23 PM
Concordia33 needs to read the dates of what's cited. NH HB 1580 of 2010 is indeed a bit of homeschooling fluff.

Contrary to Republican mythology, this is 2012.

This session's HB 1580 is reported to read in it's entirity: “All members of the general court proposing bills and resolutions addressing individual rights or liberties shall include a direct quote from the Magna Carta which sets forth the article from which the individual right or liberty is derived.”

Concordia 33
01-06-2012, 12:29 PM
Concordia33 needs to read the dates of what's cited. NH HB 1580 of 2010 is indeed a bit of homeschooling fluff.

Contrary to Republican mythology, this is 2012.

This session's HB 1580 is reported to read in it's entirity: “All members of the general court proposing bills and resolutions addressing individual rights or liberties shall include a direct quote from the Magna Carta which sets forth the article from which the individual right or liberty is derived.”

Ian....
You need to read my post - it was obvious I was typing 2010 - the "1" key must have bounced as I typed, but surely you must have realized that I knew it was an older bill from the context of the post!

Perhaps in you Democratic rush to judgement you assumed this:d

Since you seem so knowledgeable about this, can you direct me to the NH state link that posts this bill, I could not find one save for the aforementioned bill from 2010.

Thank You

John Smith
01-06-2012, 12:29 PM
Maybe the constitution needs some pictures?

wardd
01-06-2012, 12:31 PM
Maybe the constitution needs some pictures?

elephants around the border would be nice

( i, claudius )

S.V. Airlie
01-06-2012, 12:41 PM
A coloring book for wardd might be enough.:)

wardd
01-06-2012, 12:50 PM
A coloring book for wardd might be enough.:)

gee, jamie and i din't even mention you

CWSmith
01-06-2012, 12:52 PM
The NH state house is dominated by the tea party. One nut wanted to draft all residents (males?) into a militia for the purpose of putting down any insurrection. That bill died. This was this year - not a long time ago.

Our real problem is no snow = no income. Only solution proposed there is cutting support for everything.

PhaseLockedLoop
01-06-2012, 12:53 PM
What about Hammurabi's Code? Republicans should take a look. It goes back 3800 years: the Earth must have just been 200+ years old.

S.V. Airlie
01-06-2012, 12:54 PM
You have mentioned me before on posts that I have not responded to. What's the difference if I do to here?

wardd
01-06-2012, 01:06 PM
You have mentioned me before on posts that I have not responded to. What's the difference if I do to here?

you are free to post anywhere you want

carry on

S.V. Airlie
01-06-2012, 01:07 PM
I *will.Thanks for permission.I'm sure you in turn got the go ahead say that*
i have permission.

Concordia 33
01-06-2012, 01:09 PM
Could someone please provide a link to the bill itself, I have been unable to find anything other than a small fluff piece from the concord newspaper, but nothing is showing the bill itself. If it has a number it should be a party of the State House minutes. I cannot find any reference to it anywhere.

Ian McColgin
01-06-2012, 01:50 PM
NH state house has always run a little behind getting stuff on-line. I don't know how long it will be before the state record is on-line and neither of the Reps has bothered to post much of anything on their pages of late. Till then, we must rely on the local papers reading those legislators' press releases rightly and we must rely on those legislators telling the truth. I agree it would be nice to have a nudge more confirmation. Especially since once either of these two 'toons sober up they will be looking for ways to pretend it never happened.

Concordia 33
01-06-2012, 01:53 PM
NH state house has always run a little behind getting stuff on-line. I don't know how long it will be before the state record is on-line and neither of the Reps has bothered to post much of anything on their pages of late. Till then, we must rely on the local papers reading those legislators' press releases rightly and we must rely on those legislators telling the truth. I agree it would be nice to have a nudge more confirmation. Especially since once either of these two 'toons sober up they will be looking for ways to pretend it never happened.

Thanks for the response. I wish there was more to go on.

Mrleft8
01-06-2012, 03:04 PM
The simple answer to the thread title question is: "Because it cuts into the profit margin>"

Concordia 33
01-06-2012, 03:26 PM
I think Republicans love the Constitution as much (possibly more) than Democrats despite all the posturing here in the bilge.

Chris Coose
01-06-2012, 03:55 PM
“If anyone who has borrowed a sum of money from Jews dies before the debt has been repaid, his heir shall pay no interest on the debt for so long as he remains under age.”

Magna Carta

These fundie Constitutionalists are as boring as the Sharia Muslims or the Poly Mormons.

Gerarddm
01-06-2012, 04:24 PM
How any thinking voter can take the general Republican brand seriously is way beyong my ability to comprehend.

TANSTAF1
01-06-2012, 04:26 PM
I hate it because it is not preventing Obama from becoming a petty banana republic dictator

CWSmith
01-06-2012, 04:52 PM
I hate it because it is not preventing Obama from becoming a petty banana republic dictator

If you believe that description fits Obama, then you've never seen a "petty banana republic dictator".

wardd
01-06-2012, 05:05 PM
I hate it because it is not preventing Obama from becoming a petty banana republic dictator

care to give an example of obamas dictatorial power grab

SMARTINSEN
01-06-2012, 07:14 PM
Here is is from their General Assembly, or what ever they call it up there, the General Court, I think.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2012/HB1580.html

wardd
01-06-2012, 07:16 PM
i understand there hasn't been a king named james sense he signed the magna carta

brad9798
01-06-2012, 08:43 PM
Why do some idiots on this forum think that extreme right whackos represent ALL Rips?

brad9798
01-06-2012, 08:45 PM
Here's a better question:

Why do all Dims think Obama is so great?

(Be careful how you answer me ... I voted for the POS!) :(

elf
01-06-2012, 11:49 PM
And the best question yet - why do all the Regressives think in black and white?

BrianY
01-06-2012, 11:59 PM
Why do some idiots on this forum think that extreme right whackos represent ALL Rips?

For the same reason that some idiots on this forum think that extreme left wing whackos represent ALL Dems.

Intellectual laziness, predjudice, bias, group think, ignorance...this kind of stuff transcends all political and cultural boundaries

brad9798
01-07-2012, 12:18 AM
BrianY- I can appreciate your response, truly.

It does not begin to answer my question about the STUPIDITY/NAIVETY on this forum ... :(

BrianY
01-07-2012, 12:47 AM
BrianY- I can appreciate your response, truly.

It does not begin to answer my question about the STUPIDITY/NAIVETY on this forum ... :(

I think it does...as I said, Intellectual laziness, predjudice, bias, group think, ignorance....and it's by no means unique to this forum. People are basically lazy (and yes I include myself in this) particularly when they confront others who do not share their points of view or opinions. It's a lot easier to generalize, demean and ridicule your opponent and his views than to actually engage in a reasonable and respectful debate. It's hard work to lay out your views and support them with good arguments and/or respond to your opponent's points with well-supported arguments - especially when you're typing it all out rather than speaking. Add the poisoned atmosphere of ridicule, disrespect and knee jerk, thoughtless and childish rhetoric that passes for political comment on radio and TV these days and it's a wonder that we are able to carry on ANY kind of halfway decent debate.

S.V. Airlie
01-07-2012, 07:02 AM
i understand there hasn't been a king named james sense he signed the magna cartaTry King John for starters.

Ian McColgin
01-07-2012, 07:43 AM
Most of us who are either actually liberal or are really moderatly conservative and thus viewed by the right as dangerous socialists (like Norm) periodicly note that the Republican party once had leaders like Eisenhower and Nixon (in his better days) who were less ideological, and even Goldwater actually feared the far right crazies. People like that who remain Republicans are fewer and are keeping their heads down since they get purged by the ideologues if visible. No one thinks all Republicans are rightwing ignorant xenophobes. Just most of those running for office and bloviating on the air.

Were William F Buckley alive now he'd be like the conservative mirror image of an Arthur Koestler charactor, betrayed by those who falsely profess the values.

BrianW
01-07-2012, 07:53 AM
This thread was started, and subject titled, in normal overkill, pure partisan BS fashion...


Eight hundred years later, an inspiration New bills would cite Magna Carta By Karen Langley (http://www.concordmonitor.com/users/karen-langley) and Matthew Spolar (http://www.concordmonitor.com/users/matthew-spolar) / Monitor staff (http://www.concordmonitor.com/taxonomy/term/7922)
December 24, 2011



http://cmoads.concordmonitor.com/www/delivery/lg.php?bannerid=177&campaignid=120&zoneid=8&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.concordmonitor.com%2Farticle% 2F300270%2Feight-hundred-years-later-inspiration%3FCSAuthResp%3D1325940417%253Aeuv725a4 bv2eas127ffe8o2rs0%253ACSUserId%257CCSGroupId%253A approved%253AEA0E68D4BC6A5B4AAF84E4DA81694B3C%26CS UserId%3D94%26CSGroupId%3D1&referer=http%3A%2F%2F208.65.201.106%2Fshowthread.p hp%3Fp%3D32817175&cb=019b6c1900






As in other lines of work, lunchtime discussions among lawmakers at the State House often spur ideas. Sometimes those ideas become bills. And sometimes those bills seemed less strange over lunch.
House Bill 1580 is the product of such a brainstorming session this summer between three freshman House Republicans: Bob Kingsbury of Laconia, Tim Twombly of Nashua and Lucien Vita of Middleton. The eyebrow-raiser, set to be introduced when the Legislature reconvenes next month, requires legislation to find its origin in an English document crafted in 1215.




But Kingsbury said the "primary motivation" for the bill was to honor the Magna Carta's upcoming 800-year anniversary in 2015. Citing quotes from the document will bring its historical importance to the public's attention, he said.



Nothing to this at all, and hardly worth the flaming subject header.

Some members here need not be taken seriously.

Ian McColgin
01-07-2012, 08:04 AM
That rationalization is the first step for the authors trying to extricate themselves from utter stupidity. If they meant to honor the Magna Carta, for whatever reason, they could do so in many many ways from a rather pointless bill to say the Magna Carta is nice to strengthening the schools. The measure they introduced in no way honors the Magna Carts and they know it. This is just disengenuous excuse making by a couple of guys caught being idiots.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
01-07-2012, 08:09 AM
"This bill establishes that parents have a natural, fundamental right to determine and direct the education of their children..."

WHAT?

Allow me to collect my jaw from the floor.


"This Bill establishes.... a natural, fundamental right..."


If the right exists and is natural it cannot and need not be established by legislation.


And to give parents this unfettered power over their chilren harks back to the Roman patria potestas and seeks to deprive the children of their own natural and fundamental rights - sometimes thought to include liberty and the pursuit of happiness!

Ian McColgin
01-07-2012, 08:15 AM
Andrew, the 2010 bill was a seperate, albeit perhaps more idioticly dangerous, topic from this year's. A lot of folk don't know that bill numbers are by session. If they didn't start over, we'd be in the billions by now.

TANSTAF1
01-07-2012, 08:17 AM
care to give an example of obamas dictatorial power grab


"Can’t delude legislators into adopting a $1.5 billion Kabuki summer-jobs make-work boondoggle? Create an unfunded program through executive fiat.

Can’t muster up a filibuster-proof majority for radical nominees? Czar-ify ’em.

Can’t get Congress to approve vast wildlands designations? Grab them under cover of a holiday lame-duck session.

Can’t get the illegal-alien-bailout DREAM Act passed on Capitol Hill? Executive-order it.

“So let it be written, so let it be done!”"

SMARTINSEN
01-07-2012, 08:36 AM
That rationalization is the first step for the authors trying to extricate themselves from utter stupidity. If they meant to honor the Magna Carta, for whatever reason, they could do so in many many ways from a rather pointless bill to say the Magna Carta is nice to strengthening the schools. The measure they introduced in no way honors the Magna Carts and they know it. This is just disengenuous excuse making by a couple of guys caught being idiots.

Nailed it.

There is an article in the Concord Monitor, a couple of clicks away if you are so inclined to read it, where their very own words put the critical thinking skills of this bill's authors into very poor light.

Ian McColgin
01-07-2012, 08:50 AM
TANSTAF1 did put it in a quote [#42], but could not be bothered to give the whole cite. It's http://www.creators.com/conservative/michelle-malkin.html

John Smith
01-07-2012, 09:01 AM
Anyone remember the House beginng with a reading of the Cosntitution, except those parts they don't like. They set themselves some rules they couldn't follow, as I recall.

This thread is cute, but nowhere near as frightening as the religious comments made. Santorum responded to a question with a statement that we alwasy need a Jesus candidate, which I guess means we always need a Jesus president.

Gingrich asked how do you trust someone to lead our military if he doesn't believe in God.

I don't believe anyone will succeed at replacing our constitutiona with the Magna Carter, but they may succeed at replacing it with the Bible.

Bob V
01-07-2012, 09:21 AM
Here's a better question:

Why do all Dims think Obama is so great?

(Be careful how you answer me ... I voted for the POS!) :(

Did you ever notice how people who sound like they haven't got a clue are also poor spellers?

It's spelled POTUS you moran!

;-D

TANSTAF1
01-07-2012, 09:23 AM
So piece of sh1t is spelled POTUS? I quite agree.

BrianW
01-07-2012, 10:23 AM
That rationalization is the first step for the authors trying to extricate themselves from utter stupidity. If they meant to honor the Magna Carta, for whatever reason, they could do so in many many ways from a rather pointless bill to say the Magna Carta is nice to strengthening the schools. The measure they introduced in no way honors the Magna Carts and they know it. This is just disengenuous excuse making by a couple of guys caught being idiots.

I don't disagree that it's stupid.

But, it's not related to hating the Constitution, or all Republicans.

wardd
01-07-2012, 10:30 AM
Why do some idiots on this forum think that extreme right whackos represent ALL Rips?

where are the sane republican voices?

all i hear are the whackos

BrianW
01-07-2012, 10:59 AM
all i hear are the whackos

That I believe.

Garbage in, Garbage out.

wardd
01-07-2012, 11:01 AM
That I believe.

Garbage in, Garbage out.

i see you addressed the heart of the matter

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-07-2012, 11:18 AM
Here's a better question:

Why do all Dims think Obama is so great?

(Be careful how you answer me ... I voted for the POS!) :(

You don't get any grace for voting for Obama,dude.
The answer to your question is simple.
We can only vote for those willing to run. Of all the candidate then and now Obama is the best by far. He has run this country as well as could be expected considering what he inherited and the flat out resistance he's encountered from the Repugnicans in congress.

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-07-2012, 11:27 AM
Why do some idiots on this forum think that extreme right whackos represent ALL Rips?

Those"idiots" you are castigating know for certain the Repugnican Party is controlled by those very same right-wing wackos and they also call the tune in the US Congress. If there are any centrists in that party they seem to be too bashful to engage in the dance. Till then the RWWackos are the party. Make your plans accordingly.

BrianW
01-07-2012, 11:35 AM
i see you addressed the heart of the matter

Exactly.

I quoted a much better article without the partisan spin, and grossly exaggerated subject header. Then was able to agree with another member on the quality of the bill without insult. That despite the fact we were not in exact agreement.

Compared to your contribution, mine was stellar.

wardd
01-07-2012, 11:52 AM
Exactly.

I quoted a much better article without the partisan spin, and grossly exaggerated subject header. Then was able to agree with another member on the quality of the bill without insult. That despite the fact we were not in exact agreement.

Compared to your contribution, mine was stellar.


a legend in your own mind

congratulations

brad9798
01-08-2012, 10:46 PM
Cuyahoga chuck seems to be clairvoyant ... what a magic man ... without a CLUE! (now, don't jump on me ... go back to what was posted ... it is YOU that continues to lump rips into some insane ONE-LUMP CATEGORY!). Really? WOW! :(