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Jim Ledger
12-04-2011, 06:58 PM
It will be either Ebony, Rosewood or Lignum Vitae, haven't made up my mind, with a Manganese Bronze ring turned out of an old piece of propeller shaft.

Stay tuned. :d

Cogeniac
12-04-2011, 07:20 PM
I can't wait to see this....

S

Breakaway
12-04-2011, 11:29 PM
What kind of chisel is the handle intended for, Jim?

Kevin

Jim Ledger
12-05-2011, 12:33 AM
An inch and a half Greenlee framing chisel, Kevin.

Tom M.
12-05-2011, 12:45 AM
Aww jeez Ledger, no wonder that boat's taking so long.

:D

Paul Girouard
12-05-2011, 12:48 AM
Are you sending it to Donn?

Cogeniac
12-05-2011, 01:07 AM
You mean you didn't forge it out of steel made from ore you mined by hand in Bolivia?

I'm soo disappointed!

S

Canoeyawl
12-05-2011, 11:20 AM
My experience with Ebony and Rosewood chisel handles is they are both too brittle. Even with a ring they have split when using them hard.

Jim Ledger
12-05-2011, 11:37 AM
Lignum Vitae, then?

Draketail
12-05-2011, 11:59 AM
I've had excellent luck making replacement timber framing chisels handles of both locust and osage orange. They appear to be almost (military school) student proof. Much enthusiasm, little finess.......

Jim Ledger
12-05-2011, 12:11 PM
Locust I've plenty of, if I can find a piece big enough without a check.

simonmags
12-05-2011, 10:07 PM
Hey Jim, will be interested to see what sort of design you go with and how your framing chisel comes up. If I'm lucky I may get to make a handle for one myself after christmas, depends on what Santa brings along. I was looking at something like this for the framing chisel type ones:
https://sites.google.com/site/woodenthingy/chisels/FramingChisel.jpg?attredirects=0

and I quite like this design for slicks.

https://sites.google.com/site/woodenthingy/_/rsrc/1294978510943/chisels/3-inch-slick-chisel.jpg?height=150&width=200

Can't wait to see what you end up doing and how you do it.

Cheers

Simon

Draketail
12-06-2011, 08:21 AM
Simon,

Is that a Fulton slick?

tapsnap
12-07-2011, 10:03 AM
When do we get to see the drawings and the model for this handle?

Jim Ledger
12-07-2011, 11:02 AM
When do we get to see the drawings and the model for this handle?

I'm just going to wing it, Snapper, straight to production and if I don't like it...into the fire and make another.

Here are the candidates, an inch and a half Reliant gouge, a piece of old propeller shaft, and a chunk of Black Locust...

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/DSCF0940.jpg

Bob Smalser
12-07-2011, 11:12 AM
Never saw a gouge with a striking ring. Gouges are generally parers, although sometimes tipped in leather washers. But leather was added more for the reason that it was easier to do a perfect job on the end grain with leather than with skew.

Jim Ledger
12-07-2011, 11:23 AM
Never saw a gouge with a striking ring. Gouges are generally parers, although sometimes tipped in leather washers. But leather was added more for the reason that it was easier to do a perfect job on the end grain with leather than with skew.

Right you are, Bob, but I had it in mind to try turning the bronze ring and fitting it to a wooden handle. There's a reason for this, you see, I have a bronze ships wheel that lost its wooden handles some time in the past, and I want to make a new set of handles for it. Lignum Vitae handles with bronze ferrules. So, the chisel handle is a kind of a warm up exercise to work out a few bugs and practice some turning before committing to the expensive wood.

Maybe this handle will be a push handle and I'll do another with a striking ring. There's more than a few good candidate chisels and no shortage of Locust scrap.

Here we go, the blank ready to turn...

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/DSCF0941.jpg

Bob Smalser
12-07-2011, 11:46 AM
But if you're gonna hit the gouge with a mallet, then why not? While you're at it, you might consider turning a pile of blanks to save time doing the next flea market chisels that come your way.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/399938436.jpg

Jim Ledger
12-07-2011, 12:22 PM
Those are nice looking handles, Bob.

It couldn't hurt to have a striking ring. Actually, considering the size of this chisel it would be difficult to utilize a lot of the blade without striking it, it would be just to hard to push by hand once a significant part of the radius starts to bite.

Roughing out a cylinder...

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/DSCF0942.jpg

Peerie Maa
12-07-2011, 12:23 PM
Here we go, the blank ready to turn...

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/DSCF0941.jpg
Not ready to turn. Knock the corners off to 8 square with your side axe first :)

I'll bet it chattered and rattled to get to that state.

Bob Smalser
12-07-2011, 12:37 PM
Those big old gouges make great lathe tools. Yeah, I know....everybody these days uses high-speed steel tools on the lathe, so they can simply grind them to resharpen. But HSS doesn't take anywhere near the edge those old drop-forged carbon tools do, and if you've never tried the lathe using a really sharp tool on airdried wood with a little moisture left in it, the difference is like night and day. Soft noodles rather than splinters and dust.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5813427/399939374.jpg

Canoeyawl
12-07-2011, 03:32 PM
A note about the "striking ring"
The inside diameter of the rings have a slight taper to them, the same as the rings on a caulking mallet. This taper allows the ring to move forward without splitting or tearing into the sides of the handle as the end grain goes away.

Jay Greer
12-07-2011, 07:13 PM
On Japanese chisels the striking ring has a long taper on the leading end that goes on the handel first. The after end has a shorter taper to allow the fibers to mash over the ring and then be cut off by the hammer blows just over the edge. This keeps an orderly end without a lot of long overhanging fibers.
Jay

Hughman
12-07-2011, 07:22 PM
Lignum Vitae, then?

hornbeam.

Jim Ledger
12-07-2011, 07:50 PM
Here's a nice picture of the tapered end of the handle that fits in the gouge socket. Trial and error fitting. first you rough turn, take it off the machine and fit it into the socket, twisting it back and forth produces a glazed or dirty spot where there's good contact, remount the piece on the machine and turn off the high spots, repeat until a good fit is achieved. It's remarkable how difficult it becomes to remove the handle.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/DSCF0944.jpg

The handle and gouge together. Things went downhill from here though. It's been a while since I turned anything and I was only a beginner back then...and I just love the skew chisel. Trouble is, they're catchy things, usually on the very last pass. What started out as a nice beefy handle kept getting smaller and smaller while I kept liking it less and less.

Ah well, tomorrow's another day .

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/DSCF0945.jpg

Paul Girouard
12-07-2011, 09:25 PM
The skew can be a friend or a foe, mostly foe here as well! Good to see you are human, I was beginning to wonder;)

The taming of the skew , the turners quest!

Bob Smalser
12-07-2011, 09:59 PM
Trial and error fitting. first you rough turn, take it off the machine and fit it into the socket, twisting it back and forth produces a glazed or dirty spot where there's good contact, remount the piece on the machine and turn off the high spots, repeat until a good fit is achieved.

Inside-outside calipers.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/399947588.jpg

And if you overshoot, a bit of cloth wrapped around the tapered tenon with a little glue will make a perfect fit. A .30-caliber cleaning patch works perfectly. Ideally, the tenon should be a hair long so impact and shrinkage don't cause the socket to split out the shoulders of the tenon.

Don Z.
12-08-2011, 07:41 AM
Not ready to turn. Knock the corners off to 8 square with your side axe first :)

I'll bet it chattered and rattled to get to that state.

Was it Ed Connover who said "They make a tool that does that. It's called a lathe"...?

Bob Smalser
12-09-2011, 06:39 PM
It's only a chisel. Plenty of mine have worse catches.

One thing that helps with the skew is you have a set of them in different sizes and profiles. You can see the workpiece better with the little ones and get into less trouble. The round-edge skews are useful to reach into coves, and have an entirely different feel in use.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5813427/399980558.jpg

Like these, you can make them from flea-market socket chisels for only a few dollars each.

BBSebens
12-10-2011, 12:09 AM
Uh.. What's a skew?

Paul Girouard
12-10-2011, 12:27 AM
Uh.. What's a skew?

A turners tool , sort of like a plane in how it cuts , a slanted chisel , some are oval in shape.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000392/877/Skew-34.aspx

Oval:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000392/893/Oval-Skew-34.aspx


Gives a very smooth cut , but they can dig in or "catch" and ruin your project in a heart beat.

Bob Smalser
12-10-2011, 02:25 AM
Skew. Opening turning shots and at 3:56 onward.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks_SJcAyPtI

Eddiebou
12-10-2011, 09:21 AM
I remember seeing an old toolbox once that contained several blanks for the owners chisels. They were about three handles long. He knew the taper he needed, and he turned 3 handles at the same time. When an old handle broke, he could just saw a new one off and keep working.

Jim Mahan
12-10-2011, 11:01 AM
If you're breaking that many chisel handles, you're probably doing something wrong.

John Meachen
12-10-2011, 05:24 PM
Thanks for the links that may help me improve my turning abilities.A year or so ago I split he handle of the chisel I use for rough work and decided to turn a replacement.I had a section of a holly branch that seemed suitable and tried to turn it.I should admit to being no sort of turner and probably took several times as long as an expert would have done.I felt pleased with myself when I managed to get the ferrule to fit snugly and only needed to fit the tang of the chisel into the handle.I used a few drill bits to create a stepped hole and heated the tang to help with fitting the corners into a round hole.I tapped the handle into place and found that it was a little short of seating well,and so gave it another heating and refitted the handle.After a good tap there was still a 1/16 inch gap above the handle,so I gave it one more tap and caused a split in the handle.I filled the split with epoxy and it still annoys me,but the chisel does what it needs to.

Bob Smalser
12-10-2011, 06:58 PM
Hydraulics repair shops are a great source of ferrules and striking rings. Solid brass hose ferrules come in over a dozen sizes, are nicely flared at the bottom and run less than 25 cents each. Bronze bushings also come in several sizes and if you want to taper them, a 4-jaw chuck for your lathe and a woodworker's HSS skew will work fine.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5813427/399994338.jpg

And nothing beats a sizing gauge for your parting tool to do multiples quickly.

SMARTINSEN
12-10-2011, 07:42 PM
hornbeam.

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu133/marleedog/IMG_4202.jpg

When we lived in the woods in CT, we had a few hornbeam trees. When we moved, I harvested one and brought it down to MD. It is a very hard, dense and closely grained wood that is wonderful to work on the lathe even for an unskilled turner such as myself. We always called it ironwood, Carpinus caroliniana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Hornbeam). The hoops are just regular black iron pipe from the big box store, and the finish is linseed oil based salad bowl finish. Now here in the Mid-Atlantic, I have managed to scrounge up a few pieces of American holly, Ilex opaca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilex_opaca), and perhaps will give that a try for a chisel handle.


And nothing beats a sizing gauge for your parting tool to do multiples quickly. Thanks for that tip, Bob, it is off to EBay for me. My big problem is that, while I think the new handles look pretty good, it is quite a motley collection, and no two are quite the same.

And I am very much more comfortable with a scraper as opposed to a skew.

Jim Ledger
12-11-2011, 03:44 PM
That Hornbeam has a nice look to it. I'll have to keep on the lookout for some.

Here's the finished handle, Locust, with no hoop. After roughing out the handle and trying the gouge, it seemed that a fairly large handle would work well when pushed by hand.

Meanwhile, a pile of new candidates are waiting, all kind of chisels, some with no handles, some with broken handles, as well as a nice selection of bits of wood.



http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/DSCF0965.jpg

Jim Mahan
12-11-2011, 04:20 PM
Nice. Do you have a rule of thumb for getting the size of the handle right for the size of the chisel?

St.J
12-11-2011, 04:55 PM
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/DSCF0965.jpg

That's a beautiful gouge handle Jim.
Could we have more shots of your library?

Breakaway
12-11-2011, 04:55 PM
Nice handle, Jim. And great thread: I just scored a new jet lathe for free and am looking forward to becoming competent with it.

Kevin

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Jim Ledger
12-11-2011, 08:06 PM
Nice. Do you have a rule of thumb for getting the size of the handle right for the size of the chisel?
No, not really. Trying out the chisel with the turned blank made it seem like a sizable handle would work well, comfortable with enough room to grip and plenty of leverage. If it seems too big with use it will be easy enough to turn down.


That's a beautiful gouge handle Jim.
Could we have more shots of your library?

Thanks, here's a shelf with a few good titles.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/Bookshelf.jpg


Nice handle, Jim. And great thread: I just scored a new jet lathe for free and am looking forward to becoming competent with it.

Kevin



Those free Jet lathes are nothing but trouble, Kevin. I'll be glad to dispose of it for you, but hurry up before someone gets hurt. Are there tools with it?

Breakaway
12-11-2011, 10:37 PM
Are there tools with it?

These two, plus a bottle of cyanacrylate glue called "instacure"( which I had a chuckle at). Its a 20-inch bed, 110V , 1/2-hp.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dlWo5rl2xAs/TuV1EipvdvI/AAAAAAAAAKg/ZmRuck1Cv34/w354-h264-k/IMG_0571.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NVROfNhm7Bs/TuV065otFqI/AAAAAAAAAKI/lALlK0_PiXs/w538-h401-k/IMG_0572.JPG

StevenBauer
12-12-2011, 12:19 AM
hornbeam.


That Hornbeam has a nice look to it. I'll have to keep on the lookout for some.



Hmmm...


Keep an eye on your mailbox, Jim. ;)




Steven

Jim Ledger
12-12-2011, 09:00 AM
These two, plus a bottle of cyanacrylate glue called "instacure"( which I had a chuckle at). Its a 20-inch bed, 110V , 1/2-hp.



Kevin, stop around, we can sharpen those chisels and then I'll show you how to get a catch on that skew.

Jim Ledger
12-12-2011, 09:01 AM
Hmmm...


Keep an eye on your mailbox, Jim. ;)




Steven



Nothing today.:(

rob
12-12-2011, 10:24 AM
Jumping in late.
Locust does well, Hop hornbeam does great. But the best chisel handles and mallet I ever had were turned from.....Lilac.

The mallet was made on a whim from a very large bush getting pruned out. When we cut it down we noticed it had purple streaking in the wood. Neat I thought, lets see what it looks like worked.

It was quite beautiful, close tight grained, polished up nice.....and unbelievably hard and shock resistant.

I have never seen strength specs for the species, nor have I come across historical reference to it's use....pretty rare to find a piece of any size. But I have worked in many many species and this was impressive.
I hope someday to get my hands on another decent sized chunk.

Breakaway
12-12-2011, 08:05 PM
Kevin, stop around, we can sharpen those chisels and then I'll show you how to get a catch on that skew.

I'd enjoy that, Jim. I'll pm you

Kevin

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

simonmags
12-19-2011, 01:37 AM
Hey All,

was poking around the McMaster-Carr website, no affiliation, but found these and thought they might make good ferrules for Bench chisels if someone was making some of those.

http://images1.mcmaster.com/Contents/gfx/large/6658kp1l.png?ver=10309425

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-sleeve-bearings/=ffcb0e

Just a thought. Cheers

Simon

skuthorp
12-19-2011, 02:28 AM
I turned new handles for my miscellaneous but comprehensive selection of mostly pre-WW2 chisel irons from old french oak wine barrel staves. Ferrules from SS pipe offcuts and some suitable mechanical bits left by the previous owner of the place.
From memory I followed advice from one of Bob's threads, always a good plan. I only wish I was as skilled at sharpening same as him. I have a slick blade but haven't approached that yet.

Jim Ledger
12-19-2011, 06:45 AM
Rob, I'm going to be looking out for some sizable lilac trunks from now on, but most of what I see is too small for turning. Thanks for the tip.

Kevin, anytime.

Simon, that's a good source or ferrules and in any diameter as well.

Sku, I'm not sure I can find any French Oak barrel staves...but if I do... Hey, you should have a go at that slick. What's it need? Handle? Sharpening?

The other day, my friend Chris, who posts here as Oakman, stopped by the shop with a nice chunk of Osage Orange that he'd had put aside for a number of years. He donated it to the cause extracting from me a promise that it would all be converted into handles, but I see a set of parrel beads in there as well. It's beautiful stuff and hard as nails. I can't wait to try it out. The lathe is currently involved in a Christmas project, but when that's done I'll get back to the handles...and beads. BTW, Paladin used to like Osage Orange, so it comes very highly recommended.

Thank you, Chris.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/searover1916/OsageOrange.jpg

oakman
12-19-2011, 07:55 AM
Ah, well, parrel beads are very acceptable of course. And you are welcome, looking forward to the finished products.

Enjoy! that's the most important part.

O