PDA

View Full Version : Cop Zip Ties hands and feet of 5 yr old Boy



Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 07:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqFU6mRWYr0

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 07:54 AM
So it would be cool to do that to your daughter?

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:00 AM
So it would be cool to do that to your daughter?

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:03 AM
So it would be cool to do that to your daughter? Just answer that one dancing fool.

Ian McColgin
11-28-2011, 08:05 AM
This outrageous story highlights a number of different things we are doing wrong in public education, starting with a simple flat refusal to meet the basic duties in federal and state law regarding services for children with various special needs. That entire school districe - teachers, administrators and board - have prooven they are unfit for any role in educating children.

There is a second epidemic going on here - the cop in the school bit. If you look at the numbers, you'll see how we have criminalized routine child behaviors like truancy and fighting with some amazingly wrong fantacies - like that whole "scared straight" bit that is such a damaging twisted lie embedded in so many folks' minds that they really can't even see the systemic destruction it causes.

It's good this case came to public attention but unfortunatly it will be seen as simply a couple of folk going too far rather than the more general lesson that it really is.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:06 AM
I think what I can answer too is I am terribly upset a system can get so far without being challenged by anyone. Hasn't changed since your posts reflecting racial undertones by your lack of response to a simple question.

So it would be cool to do that to your daughter?

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:07 AM
This outrageous story highlights a number of different things we are doing wrong in public education, starting with a simple flat refusal to meet the basic duties in federal and state law regarding services for children with various special needs. That entire school districe - teachers, administrators and board - have prooven they are unfit for any role in educating children.

There is a second epidemic going on here - the cop in the school bit. If you look at the numbers, you'll see how we have criminalized routine child behaviors like truancy and fighting with some amazingly wrong fantacies - like that whole "scared straight" bit that is such a damaging twisted lie embedded in so many folks' minds that they really can't even see the systemic destruction it causes.

It's good this case came to public attention but unfortunatly it will be seen as simply a couple of folk going too far rather than the more general lesson that it really is.

Thank you Ian. A reasoned response that goes along with how I feel about it.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:09 AM
I'll go further in answering your question- If they used this approach with my child without my consent I'd be suing the school and the police for doing it. I wouldn't be suing the police for the zip ties as much as for being involved without my consent.

Doug

What is the fixation on Zip Ties? Is it ADD that causes you to latch onto something like that? Restraint is restraint whether its Zip Ties or coat hangers or Handcuffs. I get the feeling your cool with black children being restrained with the White mans response "Litigation"

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:15 AM
And here boys and girls is a perfect example of avoidance wearing white. :)

Ian McColgin
11-28-2011, 08:17 AM
I do not see in botebum's remarks any conscious or expressed racism. What I do see is that - like the teach, cop and apparantly the admissions folk at the hospital - botebum is profoundly unaware of how hyperactivity and attention deficit disorders work. Assuming that botebum is not a child care or early childhood education professional, that is excusable. There is no excuse for the school's teachers, administrators or the police force. If they get to keep their jobs, they need a bit of remedial education first.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:26 AM
Sorry Ian I do. That's why I asked if it would be Ok with his daughter and it went unanswered or avoided. Trying to remember the movie where a ten year old black girl was raped and her father was on trial for killing the perps. During final arguments the lawyer asked the white jury to close their eyes while he described in detail the attack with the final words "Now imagine she was white"

Such avoidance and distance from outrage tells me something about the poster.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:32 AM
Avoidance.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:32 AM
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTc3ODMxMTM2OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzAwNjAyMQ@@._ V1._SY317_CR9,0,214,317_.jpg

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:39 AM
Yeah but it gets people thinking about your avoidance and why.

Dutch
11-28-2011, 08:44 AM
If I was stupid enough to have my children in government schools I suppose Id also have great difficulty realizing the kid was restrained for his and others safety. I smell lawsuit against the police and the school district - and finding 12 ignoramuses " educated" in the government school system to jury a trial shouldnt be difficult to do for the plaintiff.

I watched a program on television about some of these children who have schizophrenia - they are truely a danger to themselves and those around them.

Its a sad situation but sometimes you have to do what you have to do for the good of society.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:49 AM
More cleverly concealed racism. Doesn't matter what anyone should have done prior to. Its like equating a rape victim to how she was dressed.

Mrleft8
11-28-2011, 08:50 AM
You have no idea how many times I wish I could have done that. And duct taped their screamimg, whining mouths shut.

Ian McColgin
11-28-2011, 08:54 AM
Mark, I am not saying that there can be no racism in how various folk view this incident. Rather, botebum's response - all about how he'd teach his kid - shows that he's not considering that this child's behavior requires a broader understanding of what it takes to educate such a child.

Take an unrelated personal example: I was profoundly tone deaf for many years due to the damage of repeated ear infections during infancy. In grade school the music teacher was absolutely certain that my singing was an act of willful defiance and I went through a bunch of escalating punishments until it got to the principal who brought in Mom. I was essentially born insouciant at best, downright no respect for authority pretty much ever, but at least Mom had the wit to think there might in this case be a reason and got my hearing properly tested. Once it was understood that I really could not distinguish most notes from each other - not unlike the hearing equivalent of being color blind - I got to do percussion and returned to only my normal level of problem child.

No amount of teaching me music at home could have overcome the simple fact that my ears were neurologically damaged. Similar with this kid. His mom could certainly use some support, but the problem in this case is that the school system and its attendant law enforcement auxiliary have deliberately abused the kid as a predictable part of their drive to save money by denying basic services.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:55 AM
The cop had no business there. None.

Ian McColgin
11-28-2011, 09:01 AM
On what the cop should have done? Any cop in a school, should there even be such a position, should be trained in early childhood issues. Usually they are not. Around here they are usually just the youngest cops, which leads to different problems in high school but that's another matter. Anyway, the account shows that the problem was escalated by everything that the cop did. Had he even a modicum of training, he'd have known how to step back a little, lowering the temperature by perhaps sitting on the floor and/or letting his voice ease down to a soporific monotone.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 09:09 AM
My point has not been how I'd teach my kid. It's about how I'd parent my kid.

Being involved in your child's life and protecting them from potentially dangerous situations is part of parenting. If this "treatment" had been done without her foreknowledge (which it appears is not the case) then the school and the police are solely to blame and should be punished. The mother (because she knew the plan) is also to blame.

That the school decided that this was an appropriate "treatment" goes to proving your point that they are not providing appropriate care to their students and I agree with you.

The police neglected to see the situation for what it was and not become involved.

Doug

You cannot have it both ways. The mother bowed to what she believed was trained professionals. We know not her educational level or understanding. The issue is clearly the presence of police in the classroom and their lack of training in that environment. We are not running educational prisons or police state prep schools.
Again your continued need to avoid the actual issue leads to the understanding you will do anything to exonerate the abuse of a black child. If the Child was a white girl it is pretty easy to see where then your outrage would be placed. It is a clear example of liberal racism directly applied.

Bob Adams
11-28-2011, 09:18 AM
Mark, the only place I see racism is in your posts. Doug is right.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 09:25 AM
Yeah its a parent thing. I have one just completing her doctorate and another a year away. I understand the issues with education and if confronted by the same situation would have avoided it but others may not have been able to see the signs. Your blaming the rape victim here and that is clearly obvious.

I will let the reader decided where your coming from. As for what you think in my view "some of those that run forces, are the same that burn crosses,"

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 09:29 AM
Sorry Ian I do. That's why I asked if it would be Ok with his daughter and it went unanswered or avoided. Trying to remember the movie where a ten year old black girl was raped and her father was on trial for killing the perps. During final arguments the lawyer asked the white jury to close their eyes while he described in detail the attack with the final words "Now imagine she was white"

Such avoidance and distance from outrage tells me something about the poster.The book was "A Time To Kill" Mark...

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 09:30 AM
Thanks Jaimie. The rule applies.

Ian McColgin
11-28-2011, 09:53 AM
botebum, I only just now read with the attention it deserved from the start that you have a son with ADHD. I am very glad, and your town should be deeply grateful, that in fighting for your son you forced the school it get better. I certainly know that those of us who were raised by really good parents have enormous good fortune and a leg up in life that we ourselves did nothing to 'earn.'

Except maybe we can 'earn' it retroactivly by trying to provide the same leg up to those who come after us.

All of those who come after. Offspring, kin, and all others. This is especially important for those of us who have not added to the earth's population.

Where botebum and I disagree is that even if this boy's mother were totally uninvolved, I'd be all over the school system for this one. Rather than blame the mother for not being more, I absolutely condemn the school for not doing right by the boy, including fostering parental involvement and training. Working with the families is a key element in all education but gets on to super critical in SpEd situations.

Dutch
11-28-2011, 10:22 AM
you want your kid in school with one of these children? there comes a point when its no longer the responsibility of the school system to " do right" by the sick kid


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVHNGZ0Omx0

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 10:27 AM
you want your kid in school with one of these children? there comes a point when its no longer the responsibility of the school system to " do right" by the sick kid


Nazi Persecution of the Mentally and Physically Disabled
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/disabled.html

RodSBT
11-28-2011, 10:51 AM
The cop needs to be fired if for no other reason than being a Ricardo.
At least he'll have the embarrassment of having been "assaulted" by a 5 yr.old and putting it on record.
What a big wuss.

Ian McColgin
11-28-2011, 11:16 AM
While Dutch is correct that there are children who cannot be part of a general school population, that issue and the example given are an incredible insult to the families whose children are being cheated of an education and being pushed out of our society by school systems that abuse children and taxpayer dollars with equal abandon.

The only extent to which Dutch's contribution is useful is as a demonstration why no one should entrust their children's education to him.

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 11:25 AM
Ian..This is not a perfect society..What you want, is one. It isn't going to happen. You mention specifically teachers working with the troubled kids via the parents. What do you do when the parents demonstrate a definite lack of interest or worse, as I have seen, taken the kids position and don't listen to the school about their concerns?*

Ian McColgin
11-28-2011, 11:45 AM
When the parents don't take up their role - for what ever reason from incompetance, disinterest, drugs, workaholism, poverty - I do not further punish the kid by ducking out. One of the interesting things about working with United Cerebral Palsey was dealing with the parents. UCP is actually a consumer-owned outfit and the consumers are mostly parents with a sprinkling of CP adults so the actual UCP members are among the most wonderfully committed and involved parents in the world. Unfortunatly, not all children with cerebral palsy have UCP parents. While there are some UCP parents who really can get quite judgemental, even at their most judgemental they do not condemn the kids to no UCP services. If anything, the workers and members of UCP work harder when the family can't or won't deal.

That is the correct model. Yes, an absence of parental involvement is an additional handicap for a child growing up. Yes we are an imperfect society and do not meet - probably cannot meet - the needs of every child. That reality is only a reason to try harder, not an excuse for giving up.

Nicholas Carey
11-28-2011, 06:46 PM
Why am I not surprised that little Michael is black? Willing to bet that if he was white, and from a well-to-do family, that his treatment would have been rather different.

Dutch
11-28-2011, 06:52 PM
Why am I not surprised that little Michael is black? Willing to bet that if he was white, and from a well-to-do family, that his treatment would have been rather different.

fart