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Cuyahoga Chuck
11-27-2011, 05:44 PM
O.K., Now Ron Paul

By GAIL COLLINS (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/gailcollins/index.html?inline=nyt-per), New York Times 11-26-2011

Ron Paul, the libertarian congressman from Texas, now seems to have an outside chance of winning the Iowa caucus vote. Not the presidential nomination. It seems highly unlikely that the Republicans are going to give the nod to a guy who disapproves of the Patriot Act and marriage licenses.
But, still, he’s definitely having a moment.
And, therefore, I feel obliged to add him to our survey of presidential candidate book reports.
Just say a prayer Rick Santorum doesn’t take off next.
Paul has written a ton of stuff, most of it on his economic theories. His big best seller is “End the Fed,” and, if you are interested in abolishing the Federal Reserve, I would really suggest reading it. However, the Fed is not going to be ended. People are not going to be given the power to mint their own money, as Paul also suggests. But, really, if this is what floats your boat, read away.
“Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues That Affect Our Freedom” has more variety. It’s full of essays, mostly about things Paul disapproves of, from abortion to Zionism.
It’s quite a list. Paul says he believes that the federal government (“the wealth-extracting leviathan state”) shouldn’t be doing anything that’s not specifically enumerated in the Constitution, which once caused him to vote against giving a Congressional medal to Mother Teresa.
He doesn’t really believe in global warming, but, even if he did, he doesn’t think government is smart enough to be able to do anything about it.
He also doesn’t believe in, well, let’s see: gun control, the death penalty, the C.I.A., the Civil Rights Act, prosecuting flag-burners, hate crime legislation, foreign aid, the military draft under any circumstances, campaign finance reform, the war on drugs, the war on terror and the war on porn. Also the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan. Taxes are theft. While his fellow Republican candidates fume about gay marriage, Paul thinks the government should get out of the business of issuing marriage licenses entirely. (“In a free society, something that we do not truly enjoy, all voluntary and consensual agreements would be recognized.”)
Paul is the only person running for president in either party who seems determined to be consistent, come hell or high water. The only time I ever saw him dodge a question was when somebody asked him if he preferred letting people die in a ditch to government-financed health care. But, even then, you could tell that he really did prefer the ditch.
Paul can get kind of swoony when he’s talking about the rock stars of the Austrian school of economics, but he’s not much for personal autobiography. He has a few stories about his childhood in “End the Fed,” but they mainly involve the way his stamp and coin collections helped him to understand the concept of currency inflation.
When six of the Republican presidential candidates got together recently for a Family Forum in Iowa in order to woo the social right, they were invited to tell personal stories of their own moments of despair and doubt.
Herman Cain broke down while discussing a bout with cancer. Rick Perry said that Jesus had filled a hole in his soul. Santorum told a moving story about his seriously ill baby daughter, which he then somehow connected to the evils of Obamacare. Paul seemed at a loss, but then he finally offered that when he was in high school he really wanted to be a track star but it didn’t work out.
Basically, Paul seems to want to revert to the 18th century, when every bank could set its own monetary policy and every community ran its own schools — presuming, of course, the community wanted to pay for them.
“The founders of this country were well educated, mostly by being home-schooled or taught in schools associated with a church,” he reasons. Those of us who were not born in the gentry could presumably go back to sowing and reaping hay.
Naturally, a man with such a wide range of pet peeves is going to make waves in his own party.
“Chicken-hawks are individuals who dodged the draft when their numbers came up but who later became champions of senseless and undeclared wars when they were influencing foreign policy,” Paul writes in his chapter on conscription. “Former Vice President Cheney is the best example of this disgraceful behavior.”
Really, you can’t totally dislike the guy.

erster
11-27-2011, 05:51 PM
Why do you hard core progressives spend so much time on all the republican candidates? You act as if you are afraid of your own candidate's ability to win another term. Your mind is already made up and plan on voting for Obama. So why don't you get another hobby instead of posting and reposting hit pieces thats been passed along from some other like minded partisan or posted on some purely partisan political sites that you frequent, all democrat sites.. Ron Paul has not a chance to win the nomination, only like most other third party candidates take away votes from credible contenders, which are several in the running but will not make a dime's worth of difference when its done..

Mrleft8
11-27-2011, 05:59 PM
Democrats don't have a candidate..... They have a President. The republicans however, have a plethora of candidates, and would like to believe that the current President is just a bad dream... Kind of like the DTs after an 8 year drunk with Dubya.

erster
11-27-2011, 06:01 PM
Democrats don't have a candidate..... They have a President. The republicans however, have a plethora of candidates, and would like to believe that the current President is just a bad dream... Kind of like the DTs after an 8 year drunk with Dubya.
So you are saying that there will be no democrat voters voting in 2012 for a candidate on your team?:D Why don't you guys start marathon threads each day about all the good vibes the sitting president is creating and sharing across this country?

Mrleft8
11-27-2011, 06:02 PM
My team doesn't have anyone of note running.
Once again I am mistakenly identified as a democrat. I am not.

Keith Wilson
11-27-2011, 06:25 PM
Why do you hard core progressives spend so much time on all the republican candidates? Good theater; Mitt and the seven dwarves.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-27-2011, 06:26 PM
Why do you hard core progressives spend so much time on all the republican candidates? You act as if you are afraid of your own candidate's ability to win another term. Your mind is already made up and plan on voting for Obama. So why don't you get another hobby instead of posting and reposting hit pieces thats been passed along from some other like minded partisan or posted on some purely partisan political sites that you frequent, all democrat sites.. Ron Paul has not a chance to win the nomination, only like most other third party candidates take away votes from credible contenders, which are several in the running but will not make a dime's worth of difference when its done..

You may find the New York Times a partisan paper, but, I assure you, it is respected thru'out the world for the general excellence of it's output. This column is so illuminating it may even appear in the Atlanta Constitution. You do read the Constitution don't you?
Since I am quite old I have seen a lot. At the moment I fear for my country because some of my fellow countrymen see Ron Paul, a political outlyer and promoter of odd economic theories, a man with the most bizarre voting record in the entire history of the House of Representatives, as a possible candidate for US president. I want to know if it is something in their drinking water, a failure of their education, bad genes or what?
Whoever is our president becomes the most powerful man in the world. To even suggest this strange old man, with his bizarre world view and uncompromising beliefs is fit to be that man borders on insanity.


I read most of your boat postings Erster, and I know you can can write well and lucidly. But when you write about politics your text get rather disjointed and murky. So whatever you write in response please edited for clarity. Better yet, wait till your blood pressure goes down and then edit it.
Your turn.

BrianW
11-27-2011, 10:23 PM
Great thread title. :D

BrianW
11-27-2011, 10:24 PM
BTW, if the Democratic Party doesn't have a candidate, why is Obama campaigning?

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-27-2011, 11:19 PM
BTW, if the Democratic Party doesn't have a candidate, why is Obama campaigning?

That's Erster's wet dream. It was his effort to derail Gail Collins' insightful essay. You would have known that had you read it.

BrianW
11-28-2011, 12:04 AM
That's Erster's wet dream. It was his effort to derail Gail Collins' insightful essay. You would have known that had you read it.

Funny, it read a lot like Mrleft8 in post #3. :D

BrianW
11-28-2011, 12:06 AM
...Gail Collins' insightful essay. You would have known that had you read it.

The one where he compares the candidates "own moments of despair and doubt"? Powerful stuff. :D

bobbys
11-28-2011, 01:07 AM
Good theater; Mitt and the seven dwarves..

You may have to call one President.......

Hey If i can suck it up and say PRESIDENT Obama you can to.

Its Dwarfs by the way, I only know this cause its in underlined in red

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-28-2011, 08:30 AM
The one where he compares the candidates "own moments of despair and doubt"? Powerful stuff. :D

"The one where(he)compares the..."
"HE"? Gail Collins ain't a he, bunky.

Powerful?
Collins wrote that because of the irony involved and it is decidedly humorous. Sorry that got by you.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 08:50 AM
Yep, collapse and anarchy are so much better. :)

RonW
11-28-2011, 09:00 AM
Regardless, the Collins article pretty much summed up Paul's ideology.... and demonstrates why Libertarianism will never become a significant force in American politics.

No it doesn't. Actually what the article does, is give RP enough credit here and there, to gain you, the readers
confidence that the writer actually knows about and is informed enough to report on RP.
And once the author thinks he has said enough good, he then turns it into a slam on a subject that the author doesn't
understand or know enough about to even begin to write an article on.
It is all a scam article based on fear and lack of knowledge in order to promote someone else.
And it is sad that so many americans need to rely on someone else's opinion as to how they should think and vote.

RonW
11-28-2011, 09:26 AM
Did she misrepresent his views? Make any outright lies, exaggerations, or distortions about Paul's philosophy?

Yea she did, -when she says he learned about economics through his stamp and coin collection,- when she says he would let people die in the ditch instead of having government help, -when he wants to revert back to the 18th century,- when
he wants to let every bank set their own monetary policy,- when his goal in life was to be a track star, when those of us
who are not educated enough needs to go back to sowing and reaping hay. .......

So save it norm, the article is a piece of garbage poorly written on a subject that the author doesn't
know a damm thing about, but is expressing a political opposition to.


So, if you're opposed to Paul's libertarian beliefs, it means that you're incapable of independent thought?

Think what ever you want to think, just don't think you and your left wing liberal writers can fool all
the people all the time...

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 09:28 AM
And Norman has those DHS police state contracts to defend.

Paul Pless
11-28-2011, 09:37 AM
O.K., Now Ron PaulSee you working hard on your post count.;)

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 09:47 AM
Hard to educate turnips. God knows I have tried. :)

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-28-2011, 10:33 AM
No it doesn't. Actually what the article does, is give RP enough credit here and there, to gain you, the readers
confidence that the writer actually knows about and is informed enough to report on RP.
And once the author thinks he has said enough good, he then turns it into a slam on a subject that the author doesn't
understand or know enough about to even begin to write an article on.
It is all a scam article based on fear and lack of knowledge in order to promote someone else.
And it is sad that so many americans need to rely on someone else's opinion as to how they should think and vote.

I'll raise you and do you one better. I find it BIZARRE that any American can see this pecular old man as fit to be president of the United States. The most powerful man in today's world cannot be some crazy old coot who pines for an America that existed when his grandfather was still around. Our president cannot be wedded to some fringe economic theory that says everything will work OK if you just leave it alone. The reason we have the constitution we do is that thinking men , Washington, Henry, Adams, Hamilton, Lee, Mason worried the government they had would fail because it was too weak to get anything done. They worried that the wealthiest states might pull out and hook up with our competitors. The constitution of 1792 was adopted to forstall any such occurance by making the new federal government supreme in it's authority.
Paul, on the other hand, wants a weak central government. He wants to starve it. He believes that everything will turn out OK if we just let the powerful and the wealthy do whatever they want. And he believes that our constitution tells us that is the proper course. Paul is a prisoner of his own revisionist history. He lives in a world that never was and never will be.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 10:35 AM
It's a wonderful thing to see these guys trip over their fanaticism in fear. :)

Gerarddm
11-28-2011, 10:49 AM
Objectively, Gail Collins is a satirist, and so what did anybody expect? She satirized Ron Paul. He'd a big boy, I am sure he can take it.

There was what I considered to be a thoughtful article on Ron Paul in Esquire last year. At the end the author summarized that if Ron Paul got his way, America would be more free, but smaller, and of significantly less consequence militarily.

"More free". Anybody feel particularly constrained? Other than TSA, I can't say I do. Anybody here think the Swedes or Danes or Norwegians with their state socialism are any less 'free' than us? I hardly think so. And THAT is why Ron Paul will never be president: because most voters have a subconcious understanding that dogma is not effective governance.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 10:59 AM
Objectively, Gail Collins is a satirist, and so what did anybody expect? She satirized Ron Paul. He'd a big boy, I am sure he can take it.

There was what I considered to be a thoughtful article on Ron Paul in Esquire last year. At the end the author summarized that if Ron Paul got his way, America would be more free, but smaller, and of significantly less consequence militarily.

"More free". Anybody feel particularly constrained? Other than TSA, I can't say I do. Anybody here think the Swedes or Danes or Norwegians with their state socialism are any less 'free' than us? I hardly think so. And THAT is why Ron Paul will never be president: because most voters have a subconcious understanding that dogma is not effective governance.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?139992-Senators-Demand-the-Military-Lock-Up-American-Citizens-in-a-%93Battlefield%94-They-Define&p=3213729#post3213729

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c350/mudhutwarrior/image004-1.jpg

pefjr
11-28-2011, 11:06 AM
And it is sad that so many americans need to rely on someone else's opinion as to how they should think and vote. The Ideological Platform, religion, The C&P, Black or White? TV, Hollywood mentality, Us or Them? ah... so easy to not have to burn up brain calories thinking things out for yourself ..........

pefjr
11-28-2011, 11:08 AM
So, educate us. Too late, too difficult, you are like a lame horse, and we have a full corral. "They shoot horses don't they?"

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 11:30 AM
Norman, I think you have said much the same things about people who don't agree with you...
Hey everyone has to read Huffypoop. It is the excepted form of media on the forum..Right or wrong.

pefjr
11-28-2011, 11:58 AM
I guess it's really very convenient to dismiss those who don't agree with you as being dumb, uneducated, or incapable of coming to their own conclusions and opinions. It must be a really wonderful world you live in, always knowing the absolute truth, always posessing the correct opinions and judgments.Now you are using your noggin without a C&P and apparently you have the ability to have a complete imaginational adventure confusing what I have written with what you are thankin(that's thinking and imagining all together in one exercise). Good effort, Norm, but I didn't dismiss anyone, or accuse any of what you claim. But of course, as pc said, "If the shoe fits?"

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 12:13 PM
Bottom line, Norman and others are worried about polls that say Obama is polling under 50%. Not good for him corrently especially as an opponent has not been chosen.. They, will of course, say anything that makes any republican candidate look worse than Obama.

pefjr
11-28-2011, 12:18 PM
You didn't?
The Ideological Platform, religion, The C&P, Black or White? TV, Hollywood mentality, Us or Them? ah... so easy to not have to burn up brain calories thinking things out for yourself .......... out of context, I coulda been talking bout meself, good try though.

Tylerdurden
11-28-2011, 12:18 PM
Bottom line, Norman and others are worried about polls that say Obama is polling under 50%. Not good for him corrently especially as an opponent has not been chosen.. They, will of course, say anything that makes any republican candidate look worse than Obama.

Don't know why as we already understand the next one will follow Project for a New American Century like the last one. The more things change the more they stay the same and Norman wants you to keep it that way.

John of Phoenix
11-28-2011, 12:29 PM
Ron Paul has not a chance to win the nomination, only like most other third party candidates take away votes from credible contenders, which are several in the running but will not make a dime's worth of difference when its done..
out of context, I coulda been talking bout meself, good try though. I've come to take for granted that reds don't read what other people post. I'm now revising that to "reds don't read what they post themselves".

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 12:38 PM
And the libs regurgitate what the do read...

pefjr
11-28-2011, 12:43 PM
I've come to take for granted that reds don't read what other people post. I'm now revising that to "reds don't read what they post themselves".Then of course, there are many others that see colors, and don't understand what they are reading.@@@:D@

John of Phoenix
11-28-2011, 12:43 PM
And YOU TWO make my point with every post.

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 12:45 PM
And YOU TWO make my point with every post.At least it isn't the usual C&P.

pefjr
11-28-2011, 12:45 PM
And YOU two make my point with every post.Glad to help, as you seemed disabled in your effort. Not enough tools in yo tool box?

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 12:49 PM
Look C&Ps take no thought whatsoever.
Posting opinions etc. by others who do not post C&Ps demonstate some thought. Do I agree with all of what they are saying no, but at least I am not responding to someone third hand in his opinions.
I'd rather read someone's opinion that they wrote than some writers'opinion you have accepted as your own. Yup, I may disagree with that opinion but at least, the idea of putting his own words in writing beats the hell out of a opinion from one of the C&Ps.

John of Phoenix
11-28-2011, 12:56 PM
Posting opinions etc. by others who do not post C&Ps demonstate some thought.That's incoherent.



I'm now revising that to "reds don't read what they post themselves". Every post.

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 12:58 PM
It's not incoherent unless you are one of the ones who wears blinders.Posting a C&P takes no thought. Someone else wrote it. The individual who wrote that opinion did all the thinking for you.

John of Phoenix
11-28-2011, 01:17 PM
That was coherent (though not necessarily acurate). One in a row.

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 01:18 PM
So you took one blinder off ..Good for you.

RonW
11-28-2011, 01:36 PM
If any one wants to think for themselves, then so be it and more power to you. But that would also involve research
of your own to find out exactly what the real facts are, instead of being spoon fed opinion pieces from
political hacks that have a agenda, as is the original copy and paste opinion it is nothing more then falsehoods and
distortions of the actual facts so to make RP look like a silly old man with outdated methods.

Norm has a agenda, and that is to promote european style socialism, you know the one that is collapsing
as we type..

Chuck is more honest, and is most likely a retired union worker and a hard core democrat that still clings to the
beliefs that his party is for the working man and the other party is for the rich man.

And both parties are in bed together and are laughing at us all the way to the bank..
Ron Paul's politics strike fear in the heart of both parties, it reinstates the constitution, you know the one that both
parties are trying to shred for their own selfish personal stock portfolio's.
It balances the budget by getting rid of waste and corruption as well as the things that gov. has no business being involved in.
And when you slam the till shut, there will be a lot of fingers cut off in the process, including the gov.
subsidized media......

Y Bar Ranch
11-28-2011, 01:41 PM
Why do you hard core progressives spend so much time on all the republican candidates?
They are trying to decide which one to vote for instead of Obama.

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 01:50 PM
I thought you said there wasn't Norman...One of today's threads about third parties. Go back and check or make up your mind.

John of Phoenix
11-28-2011, 01:58 PM
Norm has a agenda, and that is to promote european style socialism, you know the one that is collapsing
as we type..

Chuck is more honest, and is most likely a retired union worker and a hard core democrat that still clings to the
beliefs that his party is for the working man and the other party is for the rich man.

You were just bashing people for jumping to conclusions and making false acusations then have the gall to post that?


And when you slam the till shut, there will be a lot of fingers cut off in the process, including the gov.
subsidized media...... How the hell did you reach the conclusion that the media is government subsidized?

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 02:01 PM
Well John, I have posted many comments here and the libs have jumped to conclusions about what I said. Fairly common in fact. What's the difference?

RonW
11-28-2011, 02:13 PM
How the hell did you reach the conclusion that the media is government subsidized?

just one of many sources..

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1591022304/ref=ord_cart_shr/104-0531273-9795914?tag=wanttinfo-20&_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

John of Phoenix
11-28-2011, 02:20 PM
That word "subsidized"... it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-28-2011, 02:50 PM
Ron Paul's campaign for president will eventully come off the rails as it has done before.
His acolytes will all be enraged claiming he never had a chance because ,"they" (i.e. the media, or the money men on wall street, or the socialists or the commies or whoever) were out to get him.
Pauls never had a chance because the voting public was too partisan, too ignorant, didn't understand, had been bought off, or maybe had been brainwashed by subliminal messages the government had planted on all TV channels.

wardd
11-28-2011, 03:01 PM
Well John, I have posted many comments here and the libs have jumped to conclusions about what I said. Fairly common in fact. What's the difference?

mostly we are confused about what you say

S.V. Airlie
11-28-2011, 03:31 PM
Not my problem is it Wardd. My posts if one even looks at them are fairly straight forward.. I read them and have no issue. Others who read them, other than a few, have no issues..Only the few are confused..I expect you to be in that small number.

I don't expect much from anyone who advocates voting only democratic. Has a mind set already.That shows how blind you really are.

John of Phoenix
11-28-2011, 04:56 PM
I read them and have no issue. You have no idea how absolutely ludicrous that is.