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KAIROS
11-22-2011, 11:42 PM
What are you using for a deck iron, or whatever else you want to call the arrangement at the deck or cabintop which allows the flue pipe to pass through safely?

Old Maine-built wood boats I've been on, use insulation/air space at the deck below the smoke-head. Double or triple walled piece of flue pipe, basically. Navigator (brand) and others recommend a water filled deck iron (http://www.marinestove.com/Accessories.htm).

I'd prefer, in my near-future installation, that my boat did not burn if someone forgets to put water in the deck iron. Just one more thing to do every time you fire up the stove....and you have to go on deck to do it. But, I've never used a stove with a water-filled deck iron.

How does your flue pass through the deck? Do you wish you had a different arrangement?

Jamie Orr
11-23-2011, 12:04 AM
Kairos,

Go to http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/Manuals/Solid%20Fuel%20Heater%20Manual%202010-1.pdf and scroll down to page 9 to see what Dickinson recommend and sell for their solid fuel Newport. No water required.

Jamie

If the link doesn't work, go to the main site and click on support at the top, scroll down to the solid fuel and click on the far right choice, that should be the same page.

KAIROS
11-23-2011, 02:05 AM
Here is the Dickinson deck 'fitting', which is what was installed at the deck of one boat I owned. Virtually identical to others I have seen on several wood boats......

http://www.yachtflyers.com/forum_images/deckfitting.jpg



This is what the Navigator deck 'iron' (you keep water in the trough) looks like.....

http://www.yachtflyers.com/forum_images/deckiron.jpg


What kind of thru-deck fitting/iron is installed on your boat?

Tom3
11-23-2011, 07:47 AM
What are you using for a deck iron, or whatever else you want to call the arrangement at the deck or cabintop which allows the flue pipe to pass through safely?

Old Maine-built wood boats I've been on, use insulation/air space at the deck below the smoke-head. Double or triple walled piece of flue pipe, basically. Navigator (brand) and others recommend a water filled deck iron (http://www.marinestove.com/Accessories.htm).

I'd prefer, in my near-future installation, that my boat did not burn if someone forgets to put water in the deck iron. Just one more thing to do every time you fire up the stove....and you have to go on deck to do it. But, I've never used a stove with a water-filled deck iron.

How does your flue pass through the deck? Do you wish you had a different arrangement?



My heaters 3" SS flue pipe connects to a bronze deck plate. There is some clearance around the perimeter of the plate and the wood cabin. It has a shallow recess but I doubt it was designed for water filling. I've never used it that way.

Also, the plate is threaded to accept a 3" deck plate. The upper stack is fitted with a threaded flange.

I do however have a lot of experience with the dangers of burning wood so constantly monitor all areas like the deck iron for overheating.

My stove could in fact be overheated to a dangerous point(I'll admit it, they didn't have the same safety parameters in 1961). I've done some work to alleviate the danger including having a new top built and adding insulation and heat shields around the firebox.

The deck iron has never seemed to be a danger. There is some inherent danger to using a solid fuel heater anytime. At least that's how I prefer to treat it.

Ian McColgin
11-23-2011, 08:33 AM
I've had both types of deck fittings - water filled on Goblin and the Dickensen type on Granuaile - and ran at different times both coal and wood. I never really worried about whether Goblin's deck iron was dry or not since it provided about as much air space - which is the real insulation - as anything. The amount of heat that got through the bronze half-donut that's to hold the water was minimal.

On both I found it of real value to make a circular ss collar for the stove pipe that grabbed the pipe and was suspended about an inch from the overhead. This was the last heat dissapater before exit and worked nicely. There are also some pretty fancy dissapaters for the interior stack - get more heat to the boat and not up the chimney. I've not used one and don't know if they have any tendency to reduce the stack temp so much that you lose draft.

Absolutely needed for coal and diesel stoves and rather nice for wood and charcoal is a barometric damper nicely adjusted.

G'luck

wizbang 13
11-23-2011, 11:09 AM
I have used them both also.
The water filled one was a pita, the water would boil away, and one will put SALT water in there , which will raise havoc if some goes down to the stove, and last but not least, You want your chimney to be HOT not cool. Like Ian says, try to pull too much heat, the draft goes bye bye.
I do recall that I had to cut the deck back to the max from underneath with the dry fitting. Even cut it back on an angle with a sawzall, and painted it with undercoat only, enamal would blister.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
11-23-2011, 11:14 AM
I have a water iron in the deck BUT (this is the important bit) instead of the pipe from the stove fitting into the lower flange of the deck fitting and the upper stove pipe with the smoke head on it fitting onto the upper flange the pipe goes right THROUGH the fitting and is caulked with pseudo-asbestos string etc. So the deck fitting stays cool. I then add water to make assurance doubly sure.

rogue
11-23-2011, 11:26 AM
Mine is a galvanized four incher that I got from a company called Olympia about twenty years ago, but they are no longer in biz..I cut about two inches of clearance around the stovepipe itself, and added an inch and a quarter piece of cedar between the deck canvas and the deck iron. This has worked very well, but we try not to stoke the stove to much (as in red hot..). My deck iron, however is failing, so I'm looking to get one made from heavy stainless locally this winter.

JimConlin
11-23-2011, 12:13 PM
Magic's tiny tot vented via a galvanized (IIRC Wilcox) water iron type fitting. The indoor pipe dead-ended within the fitting and the outdoor pipe fitted down over the fitting's spigot.
Only the sky and spay put water in it and it was never more than warm to the touch.

KAIROS
11-23-2011, 01:19 PM
.......water filled on Goblin.....never really worried about whether Goblin's deck iron was dry or not since it provided about as much air space - which is the real insulation - as anything. The amount of heat that got through the bronze half-donut that's to hold the water was minimal.....I found it of real value to make a circular ss collar for the stove pipe that grabbed the pipe and was suspended about an inch from the overhead.....

Dissipating the flue heat somewhat just before it gets up to the deck fitting seems like a neat trick.....it robs some heat from the flue without destroying much of the draft.

The more I look at the water filled bronze iron in post #3, the more I think the thermal mass of the thing might be doing much more than the water it's intended to contain. There doesn't seem to be enough water volume to make a big difference between full or empty...and if the iron gets hot I can't imagine the water lasting for more than 3 or 4 hours anyway.

It seems that more than one method of insulating the deck from the flue should be combined to help me sleep better at night. In other words, don't depend on any one recommended installation method or device. Redundancy. More insulation or heat dissipation.....preferably not dependent on tending the water level in a deck iron.

KAIROS
11-23-2011, 01:24 PM
.....Only the sky and spray put water in it and it was never more than warm to the touch.

Is the Wilcox fitting/iron similar in mass to the Navigator iron shown in post #3? Also wondering how much un-insulated flue is below deck, and if there is anything else dissipating heat below deck besides the flue and stove.

JimConlin
11-23-2011, 02:31 PM
Is the Wilcox fitting/iron similar in mass to the Navigator iron shown in post #3? Also wondering how much un-insulated flue is below deck, and if there is anything else dissipating heat below deck besides the flue and stove.

The water iron/deckplate was similar in form and mass to the Navigatoror item pictured. It was mounted on a 3" tall wood "muffin" to bring the deckplate up to the height of an adjacent dorade box. There might have been some glass wool insulation in its cavity.

The indoor pipe above the stove was about 3 ft. of 3" stainless pipe which took a dog-leg through a bulkhead and dead-ended within the deckplate.

The stove was a Tiny Tot and we burned charcoal, so it was not a large or hot stove.

redbopeep
11-25-2011, 01:59 AM
Based on Andrew's advice, we did ours like his--the chimney itself it 6" diameter but the deck iron (water type) is 7" and the inch between has a 1" diameter rope made for insulating boiler doors, stoves, etc.

Here's the thread on that http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?86167-Firebricks-for-shipmate-stove
And a thread with pics of the stove going in http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?90336-The-shipmate-is-going-in...but-the-weather-has-turned-cold-and-rainy...

We still are using a 4' length of galvi 6" pipe and a T from the Home Depot for the upper stove pipe. The part that comes through the deck iron is stainless steel which I had made by a fellow in Maine called Dan who markets himself as Dan's Rugged Pipes (edited to add 2016: Dan's Rugged Pipe custom SS pipe for boat stoves are available here http://bit.ly/2an382k ). When we're underway, we stash the stove pipe in the forecastle, put a watertight rubber sleeve over the "stub" and a good looking sunbrella cover over that (attached with heavy duty hose clamps of the sort you use on exhaust system). The entire bronze deck moat is actually above the deck itself because of the way we did the wood blocking.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6398955095_4b075f718f_z.jpg

One of these days, gotta get around to making a proper Charlie Noble and getting the extension made in SS.

At anchor, baking all day.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7027/6398968453_03d155850e_z.jpg

KAIROS
11-30-2011, 01:07 AM
Thanks all, and I see that much of this has been discussed in a roundabout way in the threads by REDBOPEEP.

KAIROS
01-20-2012, 09:34 PM
An acquaintance says that in his last 2 boats he had the deck iron with the water trough ('mote' type), and it was a pain to keep track of the water in the trough. This is why I'd prefer a different thru-deck stove-pipe fitting. He says that even though he is installing a Little Cod in his current boat, sold by Navigator Stove Works, he is going to use the new Shipmate Shellback deck-iron (http://www.shipmatestove.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=35&category=7). Expensive, but I'll consider it. Interesting idea, anyway.

http://www.shipmatestove.com/images/products/DeckShellDetail.jpg

sailboy3
01-20-2012, 10:44 PM
Someone needs to make those deck irons a little bigger and put a petcock in the bottom so you can make tea.

rogue
01-21-2012, 03:43 PM
The new Shellback deck iron seems like it is way over-kill to me...simple seems much better. All the boats I've known with the water moat deck irons never bothered to add water to them; damping down was/is the perfered way to control the deck plate heat...I used to check mine by going on deck barefoot and warming my feet on the deckplate. If it is too hot to do this, it is too hot period. As far as the weathertop, I've had mixed success using common commercial ones. If you don't get a good fire going fast when it is windy, then backdrafts are the order of the day (Can you say "Smoke drill"?). The marine weathertops are much better at resisting backdrafts, imho...

KAIROS
01-21-2012, 04:24 PM
The new Shellback deck iron seems like it is way over-kill to me...simple seems much better. All the boats I've known with the water moat deck irons never bothered to add water to them; damping down was/is the perfered way to control the deck plate heat...I used to check mine by going on deck barefoot and warming my feet on the deckplate. If it is too hot to do this, it is too hot period. As far as the weathertop, I've had mixed success using common commercial ones. If you don't get a good fire going fast when it is windy, then backdrafts are the order of the day (Can you say "Smoke drill"?). The marine weathertops are much better at resisting backdrafts, imho...

Thanks for the info.

If the moat-type deck iron DOES have enough mass and surface area to cool itself without water, then other options ARE overkill if all I am worried about is the tedium of keeping the moat filled with water when burning my Sardine.

In fact, Andrew (the guy who oversees production of the Sardine, his smallest wood-stove) hinted that in the case of the tiny Sardine it may work out fine to leave the moat dry. I doubt he would outright suggest it for liability reasons, but he did imply this to me when I told him that maintaining (filling) the moat might be overlooked.

Your experience supports this. Another poster above also admits his moat is never filled except by spray and rain.

But, what wood-stove model are you using and what fuel are you burning?

[also, is the term 'weatherhead' a synonym for 'smokehead'?]

rogue
01-21-2012, 06:38 PM
I've currently got a "Chummy", which is no longer made by Fatsco Co. and usually burning hardwood cutoffs. It has the double cooktop with searails and replaced another "Chummy" which burned out after ten years of hard use. Pior to that I had a "Tiny Tot", but that was on another vessel. I'll take a picture when I go to the boat Monday or Tuesday...I did try coal onetime, but it is not common on the west coast, and the tiny tot was too small to handle it, really.

rogue
01-21-2012, 06:43 PM
and yes, weatherhead is just another name for smoketop or whatever...

Barnguy
03-28-2012, 12:04 PM
If you're on the fence about whether or not a traditional moat style deck iron needs water in it or not... buy, borrow or steal one of those little infrared thermometer guns, build up a nice toasty fire in your boat stove (a Shipmate preferably) and shoot a temp off the deck flange of the deck iron without water in. If you can sleep at night with those sorts of temps coming in contact with your nice wooden deck, please pass along the name of the Rum you're drinkin...cause I want some too!!

KAIROS
03-28-2012, 02:18 PM
For a quick and dirty (and maybe painful) method......If you can't hold your finger on the deck-iron flange for a few seconds, where it comes into contact with the wood it's probably too hot. And for decks other than wood a reasonable temperature may be even lower....epoxy starts breaking down well below the kindling point temperature of wood, and most paints catch fire pretty easily.