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Osborne Russell
11-22-2011, 05:13 PM
Perhaps by design (intelligent design) it seems the pack of Republican psycho-dwarves will have knee-capped themselves and each other by New Year's so it will come down to Paul v. Romney. Romney will say, or hire people to say, that Paul is a libertarian ideologue. Is it so? Doesn't seem to me that he is. Sure, he's a libertarian, pretty much. Grover Norquist is a libertarian ideologue, to illustrate by way of contrast.

S.V. Airlie
11-22-2011, 05:30 PM
Yup..let's be divisive as we can be.Norman.*

Tom Montgomery
11-22-2011, 05:46 PM
I don't read Norman's post as divisive. I read it as a straightforward answer to Osbourne's question. Osborne solicited reasoned opinion and Norman gave his.

Have you anything substantive to add, Jamie? Or are you only here to take shots at Norman?

S.V. Airlie
11-22-2011, 05:56 PM
Everything Norman writes is an attempt to be divisive are you kidding?

Tom Montgomery
11-22-2011, 06:04 PM
So, yes, you are here merely to take shots at Norman.

If anyone on this Forum is divisive it is you... as your last two posts exemplify.

Another example of why I cannot take you seriously.

Glen Longino
11-22-2011, 06:24 PM
What a cynical, negative, regressive, pessimist you have become, Jamie.
It's a real shame and difficult for me to watch.
I know I should put you on my Ignore List

S.V. Airlie
11-22-2011, 06:30 PM
From the king of pessimism and the king of the libs who cut down anyone who doesn't agree with their mantra, I suppose I should take your post as a compliment.

Tom Montgomery
11-22-2011, 06:31 PM
You have waaaaaaaayyyyyyy too much time on your hands.

You could focus your energy on the positive rather than the negative. But evidently you don't think that would be as much fun as stirring the toilet bowl.

RonW
11-22-2011, 06:36 PM
Paul isn't even close to a ideologue..Actually he is a realist......and doesn't believe in the liberal dream of utopia.
and while on that subject how about a reality check for norm,,,


A Bloomberg News poll shows Ron Paul locked in a four-way statistical tie for first place among Iowa Republicans — 20 percent for Herman Cain, 19 percent for Paul, 18 percent for Mitt Romney and 17 percent for Newt Gingrich.

http://www.infowars.com/on-eve-of-eleventh-debate-ron-paul-places-high-in-polls/

S.V. Airlie
11-22-2011, 06:39 PM
You have waaaaaaaayyyyyyy too much time on your hands.

You could focus your energy on the positive rather than the negative. But evidently you don't think that would be as much fun as stirring the toilet bowl.Yup I post a lot of threads to stir up the toilet bowl. Let's see my last thread was about the Christmas Bird count.

Tom Montgomery
11-22-2011, 06:53 PM
Four posts to this thread and not a one addressing the topic.

You are running true to form, Jamie.

S.V. Airlie
11-22-2011, 06:56 PM
Oh boy..Responding to other's comments should not count but you do. Proud of yourself? Want a medal? How about a prize for learning to count? Got a calculator? RUn out of fingers to count on?

Tom Montgomery
11-22-2011, 06:59 PM
Five. Go, man, go!

S.V. Airlie
11-22-2011, 07:00 PM
Switch hands Tom...

Keith Wilson
11-22-2011, 07:00 PM
The line between someone who strongly supports a given ideology, particularly a fringe one like Libertarianism, and an ideologue - pretty fine, eh? One you respect, the other you don't? Ron Paul's an ideologue by any reasonable definition, IMHO.

Jamie, you're going on my ignore list. I regret it, since you seem like a nice guy, but this constant sniping is just not worth reading. Life's too short.

John Smith
11-22-2011, 07:07 PM
Yup..let's be divisive as we can be.Norman.*


devisive" like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

http://www.alan.com/2011/11/22/romney-ad-intentionall-misquotes-obama/

Glen Longino
11-22-2011, 07:12 PM
Uh oh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now we're in for an endless diatribe from Jamie about how he was run over by a bunch of stampeding libs...thanks, Keith!!!!:)

Tom Montgomery
11-22-2011, 07:12 PM
Six.

S.V. Airlie
11-22-2011, 07:15 PM
Hey, when people run wirh a herd, who knows. I'd say sheep but I thought I would say her just to boost your ego.Personally I don't care if you work with with one brain..Have fun..

Glen Longino
11-22-2011, 07:18 PM
From the king of pessimism and the king of the libs who cut down anyone who doesn't agree with their mantra, I suppose I should take your post as a compliment.

Exactly what is my mantra, Jamie?
Fact is, I did not know I had a mantra until just now.
Would you mind stating my mantra for me so I and everybody can know what it is, please?

S.V. Airlie
11-22-2011, 07:22 PM
...and you're running neck and neck with him, yet you consider yourself better? PfftKind of funny ain't it Judge!

Tom Montgomery
11-22-2011, 07:27 PM
Eight.

And your first post was nothing more than a divisive shot at Norman.

You are on a roll, Jamie.

Glen Longino
11-22-2011, 07:27 PM
...and you're running neck and neck with him, yet you consider yourself better? Pfft

pssst...I know both Tom and Jamie.
Take my word for it, Tom is the healthy one who does not roam the Bilge looking for a place to slip in a brainless, regressive, negative attack on Norman B or any member of his choice.
BTW...what kind of judge are you anyhow?
The biased regressive kind?
Yes?
I ffiggered!:D

Glen Longino
11-22-2011, 07:30 PM
Kind of funny ain't it Judge!

It's a real hoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D
Hey, Osborne, please don't delete this thread simply because we got off track just a tiny bit...okay?;)

Tom Montgomery
11-22-2011, 07:31 PM
Join in, Judgie! Take a shot at Norman! Who cares about the question posed in the OP?

John Smith
11-22-2011, 07:34 PM
Hey, when people run wirh a herd, who knows. I'd say sheep but I thought I would say her just to boost your ego.Personally I don't care if you work with with one brain..Have fun..

Aren't the real sheep the ones who follow Norquist?

Glen Longino
11-22-2011, 07:51 PM
Perhaps by design (intelligent design) it seems the pack of Republican psycho-dwarves will have knee-capped themselves and each other by New Year's so it will come down to Paul v. Romney. Romney will say, or hire people to say, that Paul is a libertarian ideologue. Is it so? Doesn't seem to me that he is. Sure, he's a libertarian, pretty much. Grover Norquist is a libertarian ideologue, to illustrate by way of contrast.

Okay, back to Osborne's OP!
I'd say Ron Paul is surely an ideologue.
I'd also say he's a right wing republican ideologue.
Remember, it is right wing Texas gator hunting swamp rats like jbelow from Vidor, TX who have kept him in office for 30 years.

Glen Longino
11-22-2011, 08:25 PM
Well... not quite. Libertarianism diverges from mainstream Republican and conservative politics in major ways... but since libertarianism cannot survive in the political stage by itself, it has to attach itself to something... like a lamprey on the belly of a shark :)

Ron Paul moved to my small town as a young physician and fell in with a group of other physicians who were angry John Birchers.
What they were angry about was that they were raking in money hand over fist but they were having to pay substantial TAXES on their income.
Paul and his best friends are all wealthy elitists and have been for forty years.
He calls himself Libertarian, but he's actually a disfunctional old John Birch Republican.
When he talks to his constituents down in the swamps he talks much differently than when he talks on the Presidential Debates.
He's a nice old family man, but we don't want him to be POTUS, IMO.

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-22-2011, 10:04 PM
Is Ron Paul an ideologue?

No he's pediatrician and I can't imagine anyone letting him perscribe for their infant.

Waddie
11-22-2011, 10:16 PM
Merriam-Webster;
ideologue; an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology.

If anyone can identify an ideologue it would be you guys. After all, it's something you're personally familiar with every time you look in the mirror. It boggles the mind; the most partisan ideologues in the Bilge calling someone out for being partisan. Ron Paul looks absolutely moderate compared to what we get here.....

regards,
Waddie

James McMullen
11-22-2011, 10:47 PM
Nobody who matters doesn't see Jamie and his sniping for exactly what it is. Keep on keepin' on, Norman. You're doing a fine job.

Osborne Russell
11-23-2011, 04:22 PM
I can't see why you'd think that Paul would suddenly emerge from the pack to actually compete with Romney.

I wasn't thinking of "actually competing." More along the lines of "Ron Paul will be the last one to be eliminated by Romney. Will Romney accomplish it by painting Paul as an ideologue?" Which begs the question: Is Ron Paul an ideologue?


Paul is a libertarian ideologue who acknowledges that his ideology has its limitations. I think he's indicated that in the debates; although his ideology is absolutist libertarian, he's said a bunch of things which, to me, seem to acknowledge that pure libertarianism simply cannot be sold to the American public.... NO pure ideology can. In that respect, I'd say that he is trying to portray himself as a grudging compromiser with his own belief system.

That's certainly possible but what specifically could be hung on him by (1) Romney as opposed to (2) the world at large? I.e. won't Romney have to be careful?

Osborne Russell
11-23-2011, 04:30 PM
The line between someone who strongly supports a given ideology, particularly a fringe one like Libertarianism, and an ideologue - pretty fine, eh? One you respect, the other you don't? Ron Paul's an ideologue by any reasonable definition, IMHO.

A fine line, yep. I can respect either, subject to my relativistic moral framework.

For definition, I lean toward what they used to mean by faction: someone who puts their private interest over the national interest. Used to be that interest meant property, now it includes ideology.



Jamie, you're going on my ignore list. I regret it, since you seem like a nice guy, but this constant sniping is just not worth reading. Life's too short.

Yeah. I wish I knew another way to put this, but at some point the determination to abandon substance to make personal attacks is un-manly. Wait, how's this: you're a better man than this.

Osborne Russell
11-23-2011, 04:31 PM
Paul isn't even close to a ideologue..Actually he is a realist

You might convince me of that if you provided some evidence.

Osborne Russell
11-23-2011, 04:32 PM
It's a real hoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D
Hey, Osborne, please don't delete this thread simply because we got off track just a tiny bit...okay?;)

Nah. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

Osborne Russell
11-23-2011, 04:40 PM
since libertarianism cannot survive in the political stage by itself.. )

Why not?

Osborne Russell
11-23-2011, 04:44 PM
Ron Paul moved to my small town as a young physician and fell in with a group of other physicians who were angry John Birchers.
What they were angry about was that they were raking in money hand over fist but they were having to pay substantial TAXES on their income.
Paul and his best friends are all wealthy elitists and have been for forty years.
He calls himself Libertarian, but he's actually a disfunctional old John Birch Republican.

I'm confident that if that isn't all true of Paul himself, it's all true about his pals. One or another of them could be a freak on some issue.


When he talks to his constituents down in the swamps he talks much differently than when he talks on the Presidential Debates.

Very likely. But will Romney be able to use any of it?