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bamamick
11-22-2011, 12:07 PM
So here's the deal, while I wait for spring to roll back around and my intended appointment with the 210 class, you guys can help me with the decision I need to make. so, there are basically three options, and I would like you to tell me what you'd do:

option #1 - a woodie that has sustained some damage. A frame needs replacement and there is a small hole in one side of the boat, and then it will need to be sanded and painted. The trailer is painted steel and servicable. Aluminum rig. Cockpit cover. Asking price about $1700.

option #2 - a choice of two woodies, both in sailing condition. Painted trailers. Aluminum rigs. Cockpit covers. Asking price, about $3700.

option #3 - a refinished 'glass boat with full cover, good trailer, etc. Asking price $5000.

Option #'s 1 and 3 both have good racing records from past years. I had set a total budget for this project at an initial $5000 and can NOT go over that amount, and under it would be better.

So, what would you do? Keep in mind that most guys who win in 210's sail 'glass boats, which for the most part were either built by Pearson Yachts back in the day, or by Gretzky for the more modern versions. The 'glass boat I listed is a Pearson. Then again, according to 'sources' the boat listed as option #1 was a very fast boat until the frame gave way and tore the hole in the sides of the boat.

Thanks for any opinion offered, and for being my enablers. I really appreciate it. :)

Mickey Lake

JimConlin
11-22-2011, 12:15 PM
After sailing and maintaining your other boats and sailing the 210, how much time is left for maintaining the 210?

bamamick
11-22-2011, 12:18 PM
I am not going to lie to you, except for varnishing and little stuff like that I pay someone to take care of my boats. But to answer your question, I don't expect a big maintenance bill for the 210 every year regardless of the boat I choose. I do expect to have to refinish her every five or six years, though.

Mickey Lake

outofthenorm
11-22-2011, 12:28 PM
Interesting problem. Gotta remember that the point of racing is to win, with a secondary point being to win in wood :D. So I would choose the woodie with the highest potential. The price difference between the damaged #1 and the #2 boats sounds fair. It could easily cost $2K to put her back together. Are the woodies in #2 fast boats?

- Norm

bamamick
11-22-2011, 12:41 PM
I am not sure. I was specifically told about #'s 1 and 3 being fast, but nothing about the other two. But honestly, I have always found 'fast' to have a lot to do with sails, rig, tactics, etc. They are one-designs, more or less :).

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
11-22-2011, 01:30 PM
I'd go with the glass, especially since you've tasked your wife with giving away your fleet when you kick the old oaken bucket. Give her at least one break! ;>

bamamick
11-22-2011, 01:32 PM
I guess that economically and as far as performance goes that's the smart thing to do. Of course, my gut instinct is to get #1!

Mickey Lake

Carl Cramer
11-22-2011, 04:56 PM
Get #1, Mickey. It doesn't sound like it'll take too much work.

And you'll be VERY happy with a wooden 210.

Chris.
11-22-2011, 05:57 PM
What are the sails like?
When trying to stay within a budget AND be competitive in a fleet, the quality and remaining life of the sails are usually the most important decision criteria.

rbgarr
11-22-2011, 06:13 PM
There's no fleet in Alabama, is there, Mick?

bamamick
11-22-2011, 06:32 PM
No fleet. I will always be sailing Portsmouth. As far as sails go, I am already looking at good used sails. I can get an almost new main and jib for less than $1500. I am pretty sure that's the way I will go.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
12-03-2011, 02:30 PM
The ad for the boat I had targeted in Jacksonville expired without the owner selling. I guess that's good news if you are a buyer and bad news otherwise. I was also contacted about a 'special price' on a boat up north. We will see. I am up to my ears in work right now and there are some personal things I need to get resoved before buying, but this is my winter's dream and I imagine it will keep me thinking positively until I can gas up the truck and hit the road to make yet another pick-up run!

Mickey Lake

bamamick
12-10-2011, 01:42 PM
Well this is crazy. The boat I had been looking at on the www.sailingtexas.com website had the advert expire, and even though I e-mailed the owner earlier now that e-mail address won't work.

If anyone knows the owner of the black 210 for sale in Jacksonville please ask him to pm me here. I just want to know if he sold the boat or if it's still on the market.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
12-25-2011, 11:11 AM
Well, there wasn't a 210 under the tree this morning! I guess that Santa figured that if I was crazy enough to want to add another boat then I was on my own.

Can't say that I blame him.

Mickey Lake

S.V. Airlie
12-25-2011, 12:01 PM
Mickey.. perhaps a stupid question is not really an issue with your boat but glass boats. I always had that earlier glass boats were built stronger and thicker before say 1978.Have you had the glass boat gone through for weaknesses in the material. Again I'm a wood guy, so glass doesn't matter to me. Just wondering.Also is the broken frame reachable? Where is the olelocated and how many planks. Isit near a few but ends. I mean planks can be easy to replace kind of, depending on location, type, thickness. When I replaced a plank on Airlie after ripping it out to get behind and to a problem, there was an unnatural twist caused by the several angles in the hull. The angles were undamaged, just the hull construction created it in the plank, The first replacement split and had to be redone.*

bamamick
12-25-2011, 12:43 PM
Jamie, first off, Merry Christmas to you! O.K., the older 'glass 210's built by Pearson were balsa cored, and you know what that means. I guess the hulls of most of these boat are o.k. but the decks are like trampolines. I had a Star like that and it didn't seem slower than the other guys, but I didn't like it too much. Joe Duplin used to build Stars with decks that were pure sponge. He did that to save weight from what I understand.

The wooden 210's are not planked. They were cold moulded I guess. However they were built, they aren't planked. There isn't much structure in them as far as I can see. The frames that I can see from the photos can be reached pretty easy, and I don't imagine they would be too hard to repair or maintain. Basically it's an elongated Star with a pointy stern.

The 210's are about like our North American Dragon fleet. There aren't any 'new' boats per se, so that makes everyone pretty close out on the race course. Of course, I do want to sail this boat in both one-design and Portsmouth events, but I have an equal interest in being able to take my kids out sailing when they come home for visits, and this looks like the right boat for doing that kind of thing.

Mickey Lake

S.V. Airlie
12-25-2011, 12:59 PM
Thanks for the response. I guess I'd go with choice 1 based on your info. then. I am familiar with Stars so I can picture one with a pointy stern. Good luck with what you decide on.
Merry Christmas to you and yours too.

Tom Robb
12-25-2011, 01:29 PM
210s were cold molded? I thought they were plywood - just a pointy boxbeam - a very fast boxbeam:)

bamamick
12-25-2011, 04:40 PM
You are right, Tom. They are plywood. I am not sure of the construction details.

Mickey Lake

JimConlin
12-25-2011, 10:06 PM
The wooden 110's and 210's were of plywood over a pretty conventional frame.
The only oddity I recollect was that the chine and sheer corners each had two sticks- the outside one was rounded to maybe 1-1/2" radius and the inner one backed up the rounded stick and the edges of the ply.
Something like the second pic in this.
http://www.diy-wood-boat.com/images/Cabin_cornerposts.jpg


Scantlings were not beefy. The minimum weight for an all-up 110 was 900 lbs., IIRC.

Tom Robb
12-26-2011, 03:09 PM
I must admit that when I saw a 210 for the first time, I thought, "sort of bolger-y crude." Later it sort of morphed into an elegantly simple idea. Then I got to see one sailing and was blown away - zoowie! It was like the cliche' movie scene where the plain girl next door takes off her glasses and shazam she's drop dead gorgeous.
Go for it, Mickey!

JimConlin
12-26-2011, 04:43 PM
They sometimes get prettier when I take off my glasses.

bamamick
12-26-2011, 05:18 PM
Well, as I said, stretch out a Star to 30' and squeeze the stern and there you go. Personally I think the hull is gorgeous, especially going to weather. I have heard from a few class veterans who think that a taller rig would make the boat fly and look better, a taller rig and a smaller headsail. The guys in Maryland experimented with that to a small degree, though they added a wee bit of roach instead of heightening the rig.

I agree that the taller sailplan would look better but quite honestly I am too much a traditionalist to step out on something like that. If they agreed to it I would do it, but otherwise I'd be happy with the original sailplan.

Like all of my boats this will be done on a very modest budget. I will buy the best boat I can afford, only pay to have the work I must have done by someone else, and buy used sails until I can get my boat fund built back up. I need to have my deck re-done on the Dragon in 2013 so whatever I do with the 210 will be really grass roots for a year or two.

I enjoy the 'dreaming' part of all of this, but I can't wait until it warms back up and I can get my team together and go sailing. I've got about four months before that can happen and I am pretty anxious to begin, but in the mean time I enjoy talking and planning.

Mickey Lake

Concordia...41
12-27-2011, 06:45 PM
Mickey -

Any news on the Jacksonville 210?

I haven't been on the Forum much, but can certainly find a 210 in my radius. Just let me know.

-M

bamamick
12-27-2011, 07:23 PM
Ms. Margo, I have not heard anything from the class or any of my buddies. The boat was not at a club, but on someone's lifting frame behind their house (like y'all do over in Florida :)). Quite honestly I have sort of moved on to other possiblities, but if you hear of anything let me know.

I hope you had a nice Christmas?

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
01-14-2012, 07:10 PM
This guy has a fg 210 http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/2799962813.html

as well as a wood one needing work: http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/2799969147.html

He's also advertising some other boats on CL, too, so I don't know what the whole story is....

bamamick
01-14-2012, 08:29 PM
We've seen that one before, I think. Will deliver, eh? On that trailer?

Dave, I am getting close to making a move. I might have some news in the next couple of weeks. I'll let you know. I might need a crew for the WOOD regatta after all!

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
01-15-2012, 11:47 AM
We've seen that one before, I think. Will deliver, eh? On that trailer?

Dave, I am getting close to making a move. I might have some news in the next couple of weeks. I'll let you know. I might need a crew for the WOOD regatta after all!

Mickey Lake

I'm your man.

bamamick
01-23-2012, 10:51 AM
Well, the choice has been made, a price agreed upon, and a deposit will be in the mail shortly. New adventures await!

I will fill in with more details later (of course). Oh yeah, she is wood.

Mickey Lake

Chris.
01-23-2012, 05:38 PM
Nice to hear mate, but this time do we get PICTURES?? Please? :)

bamamick
01-24-2012, 09:02 AM
From me? Are you kidding?

But really, the plan is to pick her up in Maryland and drive straight to Rock Hall in May, have her launched by a marina with a hoist, and race her in the WOOD regatta. Dave has kindly agreed to sail with me and I am sure I can find another victi.....I mean, volunteer. There will be photos I am sure.

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
01-24-2012, 01:49 PM
This could work out real good for me Mick! My daughter in NYC wants to have us visit in May so I may make a kill-two-birds thing out of it.

bamamick
01-28-2012, 08:40 PM
Boat number 332, built in 1967 by the Graves yard. She's named 'Coot' now, and I imagine we will keep the name. We call them 'pulldews' down here and we've got more than our share bobbing around here. Not a name I would have picked but hey, not a terrible name either.

Her topsides have Brightside on them now and it'll need to be renewed, unless my buddy can give me a good price on a sprayjob. She'll need new sails and I am going to try to get some good used sails in the beginning. As I have said before, I pretty much do all of this on a shoestring, and then about every five years I hit my savings and do the big stuff. It's not the way I'd do it if I had my 'druthers, but it's kept me in boats and I've still been able to keep the dogs fed.

I can't remember the last time I was this pumped over a new boat. Well, I get pretty excited EVERY time there is a new boat, but this has potential to be a great addition to the fleet and I can't wait to get the tiller in my hand. Lord knows I love a boat that points, and this boat is supposed to be awesome upwind.

I am happy about this.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
01-29-2012, 05:45 PM
If someone who knows how to do such things wants them I can e-mail photos to you and you can post them. I just got a new batch of her out of the water for the first time this year. The coamings and interior look very good. The bottom will be sanded and painted before I pick her up. The topsides are painted with Brightside Jade Green and need some attention, but that's no big deal. Overall I am very pleased. As a matter of fact, the only disappointment I have is that the trailer doesn't have fenders over the tires. That's a sure-fire recipe for a filthy boat if you travel, and I hope to. I can get fenders pretty easily and get them welded on.

That trailer hauled the boat from Michigan to Maryland 6 or 7 years ago. It looks rather frail but in decent condition. I'm sure it'll make it to Alabama all right.

Mickey Lake

rbgarr
01-30-2012, 11:20 AM
Mick.

I saw what a Shields sailor did when he got a sailboat trailer which came with no fenders. The guy had L-brackets welded to both sides and bolted wide, long planks on them so they served as staging around the boat. It made it easy to work on the deck, sit on for compounding and buffing the hull, rest tools and paint cans/trays upon, as well as being a spar rack for storage and, of course, acting as mud guards over the wheels. He even had ladder clips that would fit into holes in the planks at the greatest beam for climbing in and out of the boat safely.

bamamick
01-30-2012, 04:21 PM
That sounds like a good idea. I will think about that one.

The club that is selling me the boat let me know that a better trailer will be coming with the boat, they were just storing her on that one for the time being. Really it didn't look that bad, just unusual.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
04-01-2012, 06:14 PM
Well, the 210 got a present today! I was fooling around in my utility shed and found an unopened box with a Plastimo Contest 130 compass in it with cover and mast-mounting bracket! I forgot I even had it. I had ordered this for the Dragon years ago and never installed it (for whatever reason. I should have done it). So she's got a spiffy new compass. I am still planning on buying that spiffy used main if it's still for sale, I have just been busy lately. Of course I will carry a box of blocks and line and wire with me to Maryland for the WOOD event.

Turns out the paint that she is painted with now isn't available any more, so I am just going to roll her with Brightside for the first year. probably an 'Endeavor' blue. My wife likes that color and it has looked good when I have used it before.

Pick-up day is only about six weeks away now!

Mickey Lake

bamamick
04-10-2012, 03:24 PM
Just made a deal on that mylar/pentex main, used once during a nationals regatta. I have a checklist and am working my way through it. We are getting there.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
05-23-2012, 03:08 PM
This is the best boat for the money I have ever bought - by far! Gibson Island still has two or three more they want to sell, and if you can do a small patch job with plywood and glassfibre you can have yourself one heck of a boat for less than $1500!

I am even more convinced that this was a great move on our part than I was before. This is a sweet sailing boat with little in the way of complication and for the price? Why there aren't a lot more 210's sailing I do not understand.

Mickey Lake
210 #272 'Coot'

Carl Cramer
05-23-2012, 03:49 PM
You looked so great out on the race course of the WOOD Regatta, Mickey!

Love your boat. (tm)

Thanks, Carl

bamamick
05-23-2012, 04:22 PM
Thanks, Carl. I am walking out right now to sand the surfacing putty off that I put on this morning. I hope to have her a nice 'Endeavor' blue by Friday afternoon.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
05-27-2012, 07:20 PM
Two coats of blue on there now. I will re-do the waterline this week and hope to have her down at the club next weekend.

I will have to get the kid to take some more photos when she gets home after next weekend. She loaded a whole bunch on her Facebook page but I don't know how to get those here, or if you can do that.

In the meantime I put the rig up on the Fish yesterday and the plan is to take her out tomorrow morning before the heat gets too bad. 96F here today. Too dang hot.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
05-30-2012, 06:57 PM
I got an e-mail from a friend at SA that the 210 that was listed in J'ville for sale is for sale again, but this time in New Orleans! Asking $2500. If it as the photos showed it it's well worth the money. I am getting the contact info if anyone is interested. I have not seen the boat but the pictures made it look pretty good.

Mickey Lake

bamamick
05-31-2012, 08:28 AM
I have the phone number for the owner of the New Orleans 210 if anyone is interested. This would be a great boat for someone.

Mickey Lake