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Gerarddm
11-18-2011, 12:41 PM
It has been gratifying to see that some mainstream media - at last - are starting to call it like it is.

Background: Obama makes a comment about how America has gotten lazy in attracting foreign investment. Utterly predictably, Republicans cut-n-paste the comment out of context, and start foaming at the mouth about how Obama has disrespected the American people.

As part of a continuing series, CBS national news last night ran a truth-check on a Mitt Romney ad wherein Romney calls the comment "pathetic", then laconically runs the entire Obama comment in context, which to any thinking person makes Romney in fact look pathetic.

Similar story on NPR.

Republican spinmeisters are not that- more like whirling dervishes.

S.V. Airlie
11-18-2011, 01:19 PM
So he didn't say this?

Ian McColgin
11-18-2011, 01:22 PM
According to Geraddm, Norm and the news stories readily available, he did say it. Also according to the actual tape of what he said, the Romney operatives worked very hard to select out an insult from what's clearly a very positive bit of 'motivational speaking.' Worth watching the clip. One could from a highly partisan perspective fault Obama, but not in the falsified way Romney attempts.

S.V. Airlie
11-18-2011, 01:24 PM
If he said it, the comment stands..Do what you want with it. If he didn't say it, no spin necessary.If he did say it..OOPS!

Ian McColgin
11-18-2011, 01:33 PM
For those who can’t google or click to see how the Republicans falsify by selective quotation:

Fact check: Obama's 'lazy' comment taken out of context
By Robert Farley, Factcheck.org

Republican presidential candidates Rick Perry and Mitt Romney both claim President Obama said that "Americans are lazy." He didn't. To the contrary, Obama has consistently and repeatedly praised American workers as the "most productive in the world," a bit of boosterism he has repeated dozens of times. His recent words — "we've been a little bit lazy, I think, over the last couple of decades" — actually referred to collective efforts to promote foreign investment in the U.S., and not to American workers or voters as individuals. Perry and Romney simply rip those words out of their context in order to mislead.

Perry used the president's words to lead off his latest campaign ad, called "Lazy," which began airing on national cable TV as well as broadcast and cable TV in Iowa on Nov. 16.

The 30-second ad begins with a video snippet of Obama saying, "We've been a little bit lazy I think over the last couple of decades." It then cuts to Perry saying, "Can you believe that? That's what our president thinks is wrong with America? That Americans are lazy? That's pathetic. It's time to clean house in Washington."
Perry first took issue with Obama's words in his "Uproot and Overhaul Washington" speech in Iowa on Nov. 15:

Perry, Nov. 15: "In recent weeks our president has taken to pointing the finger of blame instead of taking responsibility. He has called us soft and lazy, and he has said Americans lack ambition and imagination.

Mr. President, Americans aren't soft or lazy, and Americans do not lack ambition or imagination, Washington has failed us."

Perry's and Romney's comments refer to three recent statements by Obama. We'll start with the "lazy" comment, since it was featured in the ad and is the one most clearly distorted. It came during a CEO business summit Q & A hosted by APEC (Asian-Pacific Economic Cooperation) in Hawaii on Nov. 12. Obama was asked about impediments to Chinese investments in the United States.

Obama, Nov. 12: "Well, this is an issue, generally. I think it's important to remember that the United States is still the largest recipient of foreign investment in the world. And there are a lot of things that make foreign investors see the U.S. as a great opportunity — our stability, our openness, our innovative free market
culture.

But we've been a little bit lazy, I think, over the last couple of decades. We've kind of taken for granted — well, people will want to come here and we aren't out there hungry, selling America and trying to attract new business into America. And so one of the things that my administration has done is set up something called SelectUSA that organizes all the government agencies to work with state and local governments where they're seeking assistance from us, to go out there and make it easier for foreign investors to build a plant in the United States and put outstanding U.S. workers back to work in the United States of America."

See that, Obama didn't call you lazy. He said the U.S. has gotten lazy about promoting and attracting new business to America. In fact, he called you "outstanding U.S. workers."

Onto Exhibit B. This one comes from remarks Obama made at a campaign event in San Francisco on Oct. 26. The context: Obama was making a pitch for further government investments in new roads, bridges, airports, wireless networks and other infrastructure.

Obama, Oct. 26: "We used to have the best stuff. Anybody been to Beijing Airport lately? Or driven on high-speed rail in Asia or Europe? What's changed? Well, we've lost our ambition, our imagination, and our willingness to do the things that built the Golden Gate Bridge and Hoover Dam and unleashed all the potential in this country."

And now, Exhibit C, the "soft" comment. It comes via an interview Obama did with Orlando TV station WESH on Sept. 29. Obama said it was "challenging" for young people coming up in the wake of one of the worst financial crises and recessions in American history.

Obama, Sept. 29: "But even before the financial crisis hit, one of the reasons that I ran for president was that wages, incomes had flat-lined at the same time that costs were going up. I think people felt that opportunities were becoming more constricted for the next generation.

And that's why making sure that we're revamping our education system, making sure we've got world class infrastructure, investing in basic science, research and technology, making sure that we are moving manufacturing back to the United States, and that we are being tough with our trading partners — making sure that they're not taking advantage of us. There are a lot of things we can do.

The way I think about it is, this is a great, great country that had gotten a little soft and we didn't have that same competitive edge that we needed over the last couple of decades. We need to get back on track.

But I still wouldn't trade our position with any country's on earth. We still have the best universities, the best scientists, and best workers in the world; we still have the most dynamic economic system in the world. So we just need to bring all those things together."

So in this very speech, he calls Americans the "best workers in the world."

In fact, we did a word search on "most productive workers" on the White House website and found Obama has used that phrase to describe American workers in 26 different speeches. In those speeches and others, he calls Americans "innovative," "dynamic" and "hard-working."

Here are a few examples:

•"For all of the challenges we face, we continue to have the best universities, some of the most productive workers, the most innovative companies, the most adventurous entrepreneurs on Earth." - Aug. 8, 2011.

•"We continue to have some of the best workers in the world, the most productive workers in the world. And we have the kind of dynamism and entrepreneurship in our economy that's going to serve us well in the long term." —Nov. 23, 2009.

•"And we got the most productive workers on Earth. We've got the best workers right here in Elkhart — who are willing to put hard time and do whatever it takes to make sure a company succeeds." —Feb. 9, 2009, in Elkhart, Ind.

•"For two years I traveled across this country. I met thousands of people — hard-working middle-class Americans who shared with me their hopes and their hardships. These are the men and the women who form the backbone of our economy. The most productive workers in the world. They do their jobs. They build the products and provide the services that drive America's prosperity." —Jan. 30, 2009.

•"We need to remind ourselves, we still have the most innovative economy in the world. We still have the most productive workers in the world." —March 11, 2010.

•"We have the most productive workers in the world, the greatest universities and capacity for innovation, an incredible amount of resilience, entrepreneurship, and flexibility, and the most diverse and creative population of any major economy." —March 13, 2009.

•"We still have, by far, the world's largest and most vibrant economy. We have the most productive workers, the finest universities and the freest markets. The men and women in this room are living testimony that American industry is still the source of the most dynamic companies, and the most ingenious entrepreneurs." —Feb. 7, 2011.

We could go on, but we think you get the idea

Edited to add - forgot to add sourse - USA Today

S.V. Airlie
11-18-2011, 01:37 PM
Oh Ian..Did he say it yes or no? People here take a lot of what people say. Did he say it? If he did, out of context or not, he obviously did. Making the statement say off camera, he still said it. Spin all you want. I don't care if he did say it. In a way, he is right but I also expect he wants the American people to be lazy. All the better to manipulate them.

BrianY
11-18-2011, 02:16 PM
Jamie -

no one is disputing that he did say that "...we've been a little bit lazy, I think, over the last couple of decades...". That's not the issue. Th
The issue is that the republican press and candidates have taken his statement entirely out of context and either impled or stated outright that Obama meant something that he clearly did not. If you cannot understand how dishonest and misleading that is, then there's no hope for you.

There's a HUGE difference between Obama sying that "Americans are lazy and that's why the economy is so bad" and him saying 'Americans have been a bit lazy about promoting foreign business and investment opportunities here". Of course, the right wing media and most conservatives seem incapable of understanding the difference.

PhaseLockedLoop
11-18-2011, 02:54 PM
But look at what he said: "...we've been a little bit lazy...". Obviously he was not referring to American workers, but to himself and his wife (Mrs. Obama). He's admitting that going off to take a vaction at the exact moment when Republicans were attempting to destroy the country was "a little bit lazy." I should say so!

isla
11-18-2011, 03:07 PM
Oh Ian..Did he say it yes or no? People here take a lot of what people say. Did he say it? If he did, out of context or not, he obviously did. Making the statement say off camera, he still said it. Spin all you want. I don't care if he did say it. In a way, he is right but I also expect he wants the American people to be lazy. All the better to manipulate them.

Jamie, sometimes I hate the way people give you a hard time, and sometimes I understand why. Do you actually understand the concept of a statement being repeated out of context? And how, by doing that, people can make the statement mean something totally different. Read the statement, in context, and decide for yourself.

BA.Barcolounger
11-18-2011, 03:30 PM
I expect the American people to be lazy. All the better to manipulate them.

^^See what I did there?^^

S.V. Airlie
11-18-2011, 03:41 PM
Jamie, sometimes I hate the way people give you a hard time, and sometimes I understand why. Do you actually understand the concept of a statement being repeated out of context? And how, by doing that, people can make the statement mean something totally different. Read the statement, in context, and decide for yourself.So many people take comments out of context, I rarely pay attention to them. Here, though people take out of context what others say and post threads on the subject. I try not to do so, although many, especially if it is politically angled do so. I don't care if Obama said what he did. But I know if a rep said something similar, there would be a thread about that comment as soon as the words leave the guy's mouth. I find the hypocrisy extremely humorous. I actually think his comment even out of context has some truth to it.

skuthorp
11-18-2011, 03:43 PM
As I read it the "we" refers to the investment community, those with the money, those in the investment business not the average US worker/voter who has no control whatever in where that money goes. Profits have no patriotism and I think to call it "lazy" is overgenerous.

ccmanuals
11-18-2011, 03:44 PM
So many people take comments out of context, I rarely pay attention to them. Here, though people take out of context what others say and post threads on the subject. I try not to do so, although many, especially if it is politically angled do so. I don't care if Obama said what he did. But I know if a rep said something similar, there would be a thread about that comment as soon as the words leave the guy's mouth. I find the hypocrisy extremely humorous. I actually think his comment even out of context has some truth to it.

and that is exactly the point of this entire post.

wardd
11-18-2011, 03:51 PM
republican spinmeisters are good at taking words out of context and the republican base is good at reacting as required

Soundbounder
11-18-2011, 04:00 PM
Obama thinks white people are lazy? I bet he hates Christianity too.

Bring on the race war!

Orange
11-18-2011, 04:04 PM
Saw this the other day concerning the President's lazy comments.

"Is the US Lazy on Investments?"

http://news.investors.com/Article/591803/201111151910/Is-US-Lazy-On-Investment-.htm

From the article:



President Obama told CEOs in Hawaii that the U.S. had been "lazy" in attracting foreign investment. Actually, the White House has been pretty busy demonizing it.The Obama administration has a record of making life miserable for foreign investors that put their capital on the line to create jobs in the U.S.Politically wedded to special interests such as Big Labor, White House officials have hurled scurrilous charges against foreign companies and muscled others in ways no domestic company would tolerate.Foreign investors also have been targets of punitive regulations disguised as "patriotism" and had contracts kicked out from under them. Now the president would have everyone think the U.S. is merely asleep at the wheel in attracting investment from abroad. In reality, it's a different story."It's important to remember that the United States is still the largest recipient of foreign investment in the world," Obama told a leery foreign CEO at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Hawaii."But we've been a little bit lazy, I think, over the last couple of decades. We've kind of taken for granted — well, people will want to come here and we aren't out there hungry, selling America and trying to attract new business into America," he said.No kidding. Obama's soft charge of "laziness" deflects attention from his record of discouraging foreign investment. Some cases in point:

ccmanuals
11-18-2011, 04:20 PM
You cut off the cases in point to this article which paints a somewhat different picture.

The article was referring to the problem with Toyota's and their speeding up issue and the BP oil spill.

rbgarr
11-18-2011, 04:24 PM
As I read it the "we" refers to the investment community, those with the money, those in the investment business not the average US worker/voter who has no control whatever in where that money goes. Profits have no patriotism and I think to call it "lazy" is overgenerous.

I read it that he was taking the government to task for not doing what it might in its capacity to promote foreign investment. Notice that a good part of the rest of his statement deals with the administration-sponsored SelectUSA project to do just that.

Soundbounder
11-18-2011, 04:25 PM
Saw this the other day concerning the President's lazy comments.

"Is the US Lazy on Investments?"

http://news.investors.com/Article/591803/201111151910/Is-US-Lazy-On-Investment-.htm

From the article:That IBD editorial is pretty loose with the facts.
For example, the Gulf oil spill was in 2010, not 2009. Also, he completely misrepresents the Jones Act. The Jones Act did not prevent foreign expertise from providing assistance with cleaning the spill.

I stopped reading right there. I'm sure the other examples are just as flawed.

Gerarddm
11-19-2011, 01:41 AM
I stand slightly corrected in that while both Romney and Perry have criticized Obama over this, in fact it was the Perry ad mentioned in the CBS Report I saw, not Romney's.

purri
11-19-2011, 03:49 AM
FWIW at last call OZ has $410B invested so mind yer manners eh?

Bob Adams
11-19-2011, 05:42 AM
Goodgawdalmighty. Whats the big deal, BOTH parties spin things to their supposed benefit. Move along, nothing to see here.

TANSTAF1
11-19-2011, 07:07 AM
I don't think lazy is the right word. We've forgotten our roots and Obama is trying to turn us into a European socialist "utopia" just as quick as he can. So we need to look at the causes for some of the problems Obama has identified. If we are going to be just as bad as France and Germany, why should anyone invest here?

Blowtorch
11-19-2011, 09:16 AM
I don't think lazy is the right word. We've forgotten our roots and Obama is trying to turn us into a European socialist "utopia" just as quick as he can. So we need to look at the causes for some of the problems Obama has identified. If we are going to be just as bad as France and Germany, why should anyone invest here?If hes going to do it I wish he'd hurry up. Things sure arent working with unregulated lessaiz fair capitalism. Germany sure isnt in as bad a shape as we are. Thanks for agreeing with me for once.

John Smith
11-19-2011, 09:36 AM
So he didn't say this?

I depends on what "this" is. Context is important. You might, as an example. look up the entire sermon of Rev. Wright that a few choice words were taken from.

There is an important difference here. One can make Romney, Cain, Perry, Gingrich, et al look like total idiots by using their own words without taking them out of context or distorting their meaning. Seems they have to edit severely to make Obama look like an idiot and/or simply make **** up.

S.V. Airlie
11-19-2011, 09:39 AM
John, that is where a teleprompter comes in.I find more often than not, when he speaks off the cuff, he kind of rambles a bit. And as I have said, many pols from both sides are taken out of context..to prove their points. I don't care who it is..As I said above, I don't take those statements out of context from both sides very seriously.

The Cain quote that Norman posted is in a way an example. The question in it's entirety was taken out of context regarding the rest of the interview. Norman made it the quote of the day. I looked at it as just banter, as if the interview was over and the interviewer and Cain were just goofing around and not being overly serious. Who has ever hear of a Democratic Pizza? Come on..That was a question Cain was asked...How would you expect Cain to respond to that question about Cain having to point out the difference between a Dem. Pizza, and a Repub. Pizza. Give me a break.?

John Smith
11-19-2011, 09:42 AM
I stand slightly corrected in that while both Romney and Perry have criticized Obama over this, in fact it was the Perry ad mentioned in the CBS Report I saw, not Romney's.

Let's not forget that, according to Perry, Obama was raised in "privilege" in a single parent home with a mom on food stamps.

He's also been accused of being raised in Kenya by a father he didn't know.

It should speak volumes if they need to distort the truth to attack this president.

John Smith
11-19-2011, 09:47 AM
John, that is where a teleprompter comes in.I find more often than not, when he speaks off the cuff, he kind of rambles a bit. And as I have said, many pols from both sides are taken out of context..to prove their points. I don't care who it is..As I said above, I don't take those statements out of context from both sides very seriously.

This is a cop out. Bachmann wasn't taken out of context when she mixed up two John Wayne's, or moved Concord to New Hampshire. Perry wasn't taken out of context when he couldn't remember the three agencies he'd cut. Cain wasn't taken out of context when he didn't know about libya or the China already has nuclear weapons. Newt wasn't taken out of context when he said he was an historian for Fannie Mae.

This comment by Obama was severely taken out of context, as were Reverend Wright's words. Obama's not having a birth certificate and not being born in Hawaii were more than out of context: they were outright lies. The idea he was born into privilege is an outright lie. Virtually his entire biography, as told by the right, is an outright lie.

S.V. Airlie
11-19-2011, 09:53 AM
Two instances. Mine stands no cop out....But of course Obama can do no wrong.. I understand that.....About Michelle and Perry, I'll agree and their statements do not appear to be taken out of context. But Norman was the one who put up the "quote of the day". Which more than likely was completely out of context to the rest of the interview.
I just don't agree that only reps make mistakes. You appear to think that this never happens with Dems. Biden talking off the microphone wasn't out of context, but it was allowed a pass because he didn't know the microphone was on..OOOPs. No problem..

George Jung
11-19-2011, 09:54 AM
I know you boys just like busting each other chops - and hey, that's cool! :p

But there is no doubt the Republicans are spinning this like crazy, and quite dishonestly. From my perspective, it's a dead-on hit - on the Republicans. Want to be dishonest,

that's how we'll see you.

wardd
11-19-2011, 09:55 AM
I don't think lazy is the right word. We've forgotten our roots and Obama is trying to turn us into a European socialist "utopia" just as quick as he can. So we need to look at the causes for some of the problems Obama has identified. If we are going to be just as bad as France and Germany, why should anyone invest here?

that's terrible, of course those northern socialist european countries are doing better by their people than the usa is and we can't have that here

pefjr
11-19-2011, 10:30 AM
Two thoughts on this thread:
1 Americans are worse than lazy. Bo was being nice.
2 Don't look for too much honesty in politics. BUT, when you stumble up on it, vote for it. Ron Paul.

wardd
11-19-2011, 10:38 AM
Two thoughts on this thread:
1 Americans are worse than lazy. Bo was being nice.
2 Don't look for too much honesty in politics. BUT, when you stumble up on it, vote for it. Ron Paul.

sure " i'm going to shut down all the functions of government that protect the people, vote for me"

elf
11-19-2011, 10:47 AM
Jamie -

no one is disputing that he did say that "...we've been a little bit lazy, I think, over the last couple of decades...". That's not the issue.
The issue is that the republican press and candidates have taken his statement entirely out of context and either impled or stated outright that Obama meant something that he clearly did not. If you cannot understand how dishonest and misleading that is, then there's no hope for you.

There's a HUGE difference between Obama sying that "Americans are lazy and that's why the economy is so bad" and him saying 'Americans have been a bit lazy about promoting foreign business and investment opportunities here". Of course, the right wing media and most conservatives seem incapable of understanding the difference.

I simply can't believe that Jamie was ever schoolteacher.

MiddleAgesMan
11-19-2011, 10:47 AM
This is for anyone (Jaime are you there?) who has to be spoon fed the truth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FX0L6K6DgN8

John Smith
11-19-2011, 10:50 AM
Two instances. Mine stands no cop out....But of course Obama can do no wrong.. I understand that.....About Michelle and Perry, I'll agree and their statements do not appear to be taken out of context. But Norman was the one who put up the "quote of the day". Which more than likely was completely out of context to the rest of the interview.
I just don't agree that only reps make mistakes. You appear to think that this never happens with Dems. Biden talking off the microphone wasn't out of context, but it was allowed a pass because he didn't know the microphone was on..OOOPs. No problem..
Obama must be perfect if he cannot be attacked without distortions and misrepresentations.

You are among those who have claimed much harm done by his policies, but fail to respond when asked what policies he's gotten into place and how they have harmed us.

I complain about Obama: he failed to fight to close Gitmo. He failed to give single payer a seat at the table, and did not fight for a public option. I can make my complaints without distorting the truth. Those who distort the truth to make their complaints have no foundation for the complaints. If they can only complain based on distorted stuff, they must not have any legitimate complaints.

elf
11-19-2011, 10:50 AM
It's already quite obvious that Regressives have a lot of trouble with complex grammatical constructions like objects and dependent clauses in a sentence.

Ironic also that they spin this when Mr. Obama is out there being an example of the exact opposite of their spin.

S.V. Airlie
11-19-2011, 10:54 AM
I expect nothing less from the usual on this forum. He is increasing our debt more than Bush. You won't see what the harm is until your children have to pay for it.As you are not harmed yourself, good for you, but I'd think you would care....

wardd
11-19-2011, 11:02 AM
of course the next generation could wind up with a much diminished country, i'm sure they would be grateful for that

John Smith
11-19-2011, 11:06 AM
This is more total misrepresentation of factual matters by Perry
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68586.html

John Smith
11-19-2011, 11:12 AM
I expect nothing less from the usual on this forum. He is increasing our debt more than Bush. You won't see what the harm is until your children have to pay for it.As you are not harmed yourself, good for you, but I'd think you would care....

I am harmed. I"ve been concerned with our growing debt and the outsourcing of jobs for decades. Until Obama got in office, the right wing told me "Deficits don't matter."

Most of the current debt growth is from the Bush tax cuts, which Obama extended in what I thought was a bad deal. Much of the debt growth under Obama has simply been putting the debt Bush kept off budget on budget.

I can't speak for what you "expect". I expect you to make some attempt at documenting your opinions. If you say, for example, the democrats are pulling Republican statements out of context or lying about them, post a coupld of examples. If you cannot find anything to support your opinion, perhaps you'll consider changing your opinion.

There are several of us here who can post a whole bunch of things that make each of the Republican candidates look bad without taking the remarks out of context. I've referenced some.

If you'd like to reference some in the other direction, please do.

S.V. Airlie
11-19-2011, 11:14 AM
The usual cop out *BUSH DID IT. May be if Obama gets a second term, people will say OBAMA DID IT!My, what a concept...I think that there have been enough laws etc. extended by Obama don't you?Oh right, if you can't blame Bush, blame someone else.

Gerarddm
11-19-2011, 11:24 AM
Ah, but Bush DID do it, Airlie. Word.

There is no need for Democratic political operatives to spin Republican statements. All they have to do is run the videotape.

S.V. Airlie
11-19-2011, 11:29 AM
And Obama. What did he do? He extended programs that Bush set up and were passed..If Obama did extend them, why did he? It can't be because he thought they were bad could he?, how can he blame him 100%. Yes, Bush is a joke in may ways and did a lot of harm economically, but extending some of Bush's programs seems to be okay...

S.V. Airlie
11-19-2011, 11:34 AM
I really don't care actually. It's time for Obama to take some resposibility after almost three years. Playing the blame game makes him look like a kid in a sandbox that had his "shovel ready" shovel stolen by a sixth grader.

wardd
11-19-2011, 11:48 AM
according to jamie if a mugger put a gun to your head and demands your money, he can later claim it was a gift

that's what happened to obama by the republicans, in effect they held the country hostage

S.V. Airlie
11-19-2011, 11:50 AM
Bottom Line Obamasan blinked...If a lib held a gun to my head, later, he would say it was his right to take what I had...

bobbys
11-19-2011, 11:53 AM
Live by the gaffe, die by the gaffe...

pefjr
11-19-2011, 01:08 PM
It's already quite obvious that Regressives have a lot of trouble with complex grammatical constructions like objects and dependent clauses in a sentence.

Ironic also that they spin this when Mr. Obama is out there being an example of the exact opposite of their spin.I have asked you before about your favorite label "regressives". Do you have a different definition than, 'backward thinking'? You are applying that description in a political campaign. My goodness, do you actually consider puppets of the MIC and a Prez that prays daily to a diety, to be pro or re based on a political identity. Silly, and exposing your thinking as neutral, if not re. I am beginning to conclude you are the regressive thinker. Irony or spin? Course if you are grammatically correct in a complex sentence you must be a pro, or...not so lazy.