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genglandoh
11-17-2011, 10:36 PM
Solyndra has in 2010 Revenue of $140 million.

Would you give a loan of $535 million to a company with revenue of $140 million?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra

Glen Longino
11-17-2011, 10:44 PM
We've already been over this.
Nothing new to see here.
Move along!

Waddie
11-18-2011, 12:36 AM
I've said this before, but it's worth repeating.

It makes no sense to give out government backed loans to any green company without an energy policy in place that mandates, or offers great incentives, or a combination of both, to companies and individuals to go green.

The money was wasted, and Solyndra won't be the only green company to go under, taking a large chunk of taxpayer change with them...

regards,
Waddie

Glen Longino
11-18-2011, 12:43 AM
The money was Not wasted!
The money still exists!
Quit your whining!

bobbys
11-18-2011, 12:50 AM
The money was Not wasted!
The money still exists!
Quit your whining!.

Maybe you can still buy stock....

Glen Longino
11-18-2011, 12:57 AM
.

Maybe you can still buy stock....

Are you crazy?
Yes?
I figgered!:D

BrianW
11-18-2011, 01:29 AM
The money was Not wasted!
The money still exists!
Quit your whining!

Why so sensitive?

Paul Girouard
11-18-2011, 01:52 AM
Why so sensitive?

Fear that the truth will come out more than likely.

LeeG
11-18-2011, 04:18 AM
I'm not up on the details but listening to Chu yesterday I got the impression that allowing the loan to go through would at least provide enough funds for finishing a facility so that in the liquidation process there would be something of value to recoup. To Gengs question I don't think revenue to debt ratio is the only basis for how you determine the soundness of a loan.

Got a a question, if one administration requests the development of a presidential helicopter, allocates $1.7billion to Lockheed for it's construction and pays for 4 then a subsequent administration cancels the program because the cost per helocopter is up to $400 then the four helicopters sold to Canada for $120million for parts is that just the cost of doing business with the MIC?

Here are some other loans under the same program that Solyndra benefited from:

https://lpo.energy.gov/?page_id=45



Program Technology Loan
Guarantee
Amount Jobs
(permanent/
construction) Date
of
agreement Locations Status
1703
AREVA Front-end Nuclear $2 billion 310/1,000 May 2010 Idaho Falls, ID Conditional Commitment
Georgia Power Company Nuclear Generation $8.33 billion 800/3,500 Feb 2010 Waynesboro, GA Conditional Commitment


Fisker Automotive $529 million 2,000 Apr 2010 2 Closed
Ford Motor Company $5.907 billion 33,000 Sep 2009 13 Closed
Nissan North America, Inc. $1.448 billion 1,300 Jan 2010 2 Closed
Severstal Dearborn, LLC $730 million 260/2,500 June 2011 Conditional Commitment
Tesla Motors $465 million 1,500 Jan 2010 2 Closed
The Vehicle Production Group LLC $50 million 900 Mar 2011 1 Closed

RonW
11-18-2011, 06:41 AM
genglandoh -
Would you give a loan of $535 million to a company with revenue of $140 million?

Absolutely, positively, without a doubt.......of course the money would have to be some one else's money,
and it wouldn't cost me a dime. I also would require a little token of appreciation, you know
a small (kickback) under the table..I would be happy with, oh say maybe 2% or 10 mill..

TANSTAF1
11-18-2011, 07:33 AM
Chu said it was done only on the merits. Sure Chu.

Dan McCosh
11-18-2011, 08:16 AM
If you have revenue larger than a loan, why do you need the loan?

genglandoh
11-18-2011, 09:39 AM
Solyndra has in 2010 Revenue of $140 million.

Would you give a loan of $535 million to a company with revenue of $140 million?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra

Even if the company was not a solar company would you loan a company almost 4 times its annual revenue.

Then add in that they are not making a profit.
Then add in that they get all kinds of tax breaks because they are a green company and still not making a profit.

Most investors would not risk their money on such a company.

But the experts in Washington think they know better and waste our money.

Explain to me again why big Government is a good idea.

TANSTAF1
11-18-2011, 10:07 AM
Sounds meritorious to me if I am spending someone else's money.

TANSTAF1
11-18-2011, 10:11 AM
but bear in mind that a far, far larger amount of taxpayer money is spent in basic research WITHOUT any expectation of return.

So Norm, how many trillions could we cut if we stopped doing this until we dug ourselves out of the current mess?

I do hope you let the supercommittee know how they could have met their goal

RonW
11-18-2011, 10:12 AM
norm -
As I said before, this entire thing is being manipulated, twisted, and distorted for the sake of political advantage.

I agree with norm, it was all manipulated for a political advantage..........But who's?

Cuyahoga Chuck
11-18-2011, 10:27 AM
Solyndra has in 2010 Revenue of $140 million.

Would you give a loan of $535 million to a company with revenue of $140 million?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra

Still trying to make something stick?

ccmanuals
11-18-2011, 10:35 AM
Well, we gave 25 Billon to companies that were about to fail.

bobbys
11-18-2011, 11:15 AM
Both parties. The Obama administration clearly pushed too fast, for the sake of trying to chalk up a winner. The Republicans are manipulating this story to make it appear to be a boondoggle.. which is is/was not..

What a hypocrite you are The Left went insane over Enron.

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http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/icons/icon1.png Re: Why no Wall Street bigwig has been prosecuted
The thing that gets me is that we just don't learn.... we seem to lack the kind of institutional learning that would prevent crap like this. After the S&L scandals, and the Enron scandal, one would think that Congress, the regulators, and the American people would be hollering for substantially greater oversight and limitations on leverage, etc.....

I guess the value of the lobbying dollar is overwhelmingly more powerful than Congress and the American people.

Ted Hoppe
11-18-2011, 12:06 PM
I drove by Solyndra today on my way to a job in San Jose. the smart looking building and big sign are still there. The Equipment is still there. Nothing is gone except the political fighting and fall out. It could be restarted if there was the will to put green technology and stimulate job growth. Greed prohibited growth and selling/trading/giving away leveraged technologies to the Chinese competition was against domestic American industry interests. (I think there is some discussion on talk of the nation - NPR at noon)

this company would have been competitive if the US would have made some temporary protective laws to establish a domestic manufacturing industry to supply the nation. Instead we got competition from Chinese factories who also were subsidized by billions and then dumped lower than cost prices on the international market.

TomF
11-18-2011, 12:23 PM
Even if the company was not a solar company would you loan a company almost 4 times its annual revenue.....First, I know nothing at all about the Solyndra thing - so I won't even address it.

But as a principle, would I loan a company a sum almost 4X its annual revenue? Among other things, it would depend on the repayment schedule, I'd say.

The full principal of my first house mortgage was about 3-4X my then income. I was good for it, the bank made money, the local economy was enriched when I developed renovation fever, and I ended up buying a succession of houses over the years. The bank and the local economy benefitted each time, as did I.


Now, if the bank had wanted all its money back in a couple of years, that'd be different!

TANSTAF1
11-18-2011, 12:31 PM
Trillions? Provide a link or reference, please.

Or are you engaging in hyperbole?

Norm you said:

"but bear in mind that a far, far larger amount of taxpayer money is spent in basic research WITHOUT any expectation of return. "

We gave Solyndra $500 million. That's half of one billion. A far, far larger amount would have to be trillions. N'est pas?

TANSTAF1
11-18-2011, 12:33 PM
I drove by Solyndra today on my way to a job in San Jose. the smart looking building and big sign are still there. The Equipment is still there. Nothing is gone except the political fighting and fall out. It could be restarted if there was the will to put green technology and stimulate job growth. Greed prohibited growth and selling/trading/giving away leveraged technologies to the Chinese competition was against domestic American industry interests. (I think there is some discussion on talk of the nation - NPR at noon)

this company would have been competitive if the US would have made some temporary protective laws to establish a domestic manufacturing industry to supply the nation. Instead we got competition from Chinese factories who also were subsidized by billions and then dumped lower than cost prices on the international market.

But why should I buy US made at a greater cost than I can get elsewhere. Since I as a taxpayer already gave them $500 million, the cost to me should be less.

leikec
11-18-2011, 12:38 PM
Uhhhhh... you need to check your math.

Not to worry.... you're only off by a factor of 1000x.


Don't worry--the Judge won't call you on this bit of fuzzy math. You're on his team.

Jeff C

Ted Hoppe
11-18-2011, 12:51 PM
But why should I buy US made at a greater cost than I can get elsewhere. Since I as a taxpayer already gave them $500 million, the cost to me should be less.

This is a case where you did buy American tech that was traded away in order to build an emerging market. I have been in Solyndra and other fabs around the world. Their equipment and general costs are same. The fact that chinese sponsored industries dumped product at a operating loss to drive out competition. Just look at the partnerships and you will see what I am talking about.

Whether it is cheap shrimp farming from Vietnam or the treacherous solar chips developed and co-engineered in Taiwan and the United States, there is always someone here ready to sell you a load of cheap, under cost of production goods which damages the domestic produced product.

As you are well aware, It takes capital from somewhere to start. It was sold as a jobs bill and industry builder which was doomed from the start to do. Remember this was a plan to save the silicon wafer fabs here domestically which had employed hundreds of thousands of workers in assembly. If one was to look at the Space Program... the stimulus and effect profoundly changed the tools and materials we use today. 500 million is a drop in the bucket if solar power is stimulated and used. The saving in fossil fuels over the lifetime will make it seem like a dime to save a dollar.

What is sad here is that emerging American industry and domestic work force has effective been ripped off and industries were removed to off shore operations at the expense off the tax payers and colluded in its demise by congress, president, the energy department and the business partners who knew this was the plan from the beginning.

Waddie
11-18-2011, 01:54 PM
Ted Hoppe;
What is sad here is that emerging American industry and domestic work force has effective been ripped off and industries were removed to off shore operations at the expense off the tax payers and colluded in its demise by congress, president, the energy department and the business partners who knew this was the plan from the beginning.

+1. And this applies to way more industries than just solar.

regards,
Waddie

PeterSibley
11-18-2011, 07:14 PM
Sounds meritorious to me if I am spending someone else's money.

Bankers are always spending someone else's money .Very few investments are funded with the lender's own money .

genglandoh
11-19-2011, 01:42 PM
Two points just to make thinks clear.

1. Companies sales revenue is not profits.
In the case of Solyndra they have $140 Million in sales but no profits.
So when a bank loans you money for a home they are looking at you income (profits) and deciding if you can pay the loan back.
If you had a paycheck of $50,000 a year but you have bills that are eating up all of the $50,000 a bank would not load you anything.
Again in the case of Solyndra they had no profits so they could not pay the loans back.

2. When a venture capitalist invests in a startup company he buys ownership in the company.
So if the company does well the venture capitalist gets more than just a few % for the money invested.
Higher risk higher reward.

The bottom line is a company with $140 Million in sales revenue and no profits loaning them $535 was a large risk with little reward.

BrianW
11-19-2011, 11:52 PM
Uhhhhh... you need to check your math.

Not to worry.... you're only off by a factor of 1000x.


Don't worry--the Judge won't call you on this bit of fuzzy math. You're on his team.

Jeff C

Not to be rude, but that was an obvious typo. Yet you two glammed onto it like hyenas.